I mentioned Gyarados as a check, not a counter, to Talonflame. It can't safely switch into Talonflame. Also, Talonflame cannot stop a Gyarados that has already started it's Dragon Dance sweep without a crit. I don't see where the controversy is.
Honestly, this core isn't that good. Having two dragon types on the same team makes you really weak to stuff like dragon spam (ahem scarfchomp), or just bulky fairies like clefable or azumarill. If you're going to use a dragon dancer behind screens, use Zard X, Mega Gyarados, Mega Altaria, Dragonite, even Salamence or whatever. Anything in OU with dragon dance is better than Mega Latios. Tbh, Mega Latios kinda sucks, and I'd call dragon dance a gimmick at best. Not to mention it wastes your mega slot. This also isn't really a core, it's just one mon that sets up dual screens, and then one set up sweeper.
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Latias (F) @ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Healing Wish
- Defog
Here's my dual Lati offensive core with Dragon Dance Mega Latios and a support Dual Screen Latias. Early game Mega Latios is really good at luring in Heatran and Ferrothorn, instantly removing the main switchins to Outrage. Then late game Latias comes in to setup the screens, Defog and give Mega Latios pretty much the most ideal setup scenario possible. Works even better if you have multiple setup sweepers like Belly Drum Azumarill.
You should mention that Kyurem-B and, too a lesser extent, SD (Mega) Scizor can beat that core.Here's an old classic from XY:
VenuTran
Basically, these two have really good synergy together, and wall a large portion of the metagame. Stuff that threatens Heatran, like Azumarill and Keldeo are easily walled by Venusaur. Stuff that threatens Venusaur like Talonflame and Latios are walled by Heatran (bar EQ Latios which isn't exactly common). Heatran is also a very effective SR setter, phazer, and is just a pain in the butt do deal with. So is Venusaur. They are both really bulky, so they can comfortably take lots of hits, and Venusaur gets recovery with Synthesis. These two are pretty much the main staples on stall. However, what makes them really effective in the ORAS metagame is that they wall most of the top tier threats together. Pokemon like Latios, Azumarill, Zard X without EQ, Clefable, Keldeo, Talonflame, Ferrothorn, Slowbro etc are all handled well by this core.
There are still lots of ways to beat this core though. Landorus can easily crush this core with Sheer Force boosted Earth Power and Psychic, Mega Pinsir literally eats this core for breakfast with it's high powered STAB moves, and takes care of Heatran easily with either Close Combat or Earthquake. Mega Metagross is also annoying to deal with, but if Heatran is healthy enough it can deal with Hammer Arm variants. However, you can also play around Mega Metagross, for example, you could send in Venusaur, and on the Zen Headbutt go into Heatran. Then switch back into Venusaur on the Hammer Arm and then back into Heatran on the Zen headbutt. Now you outspeed and can hurt it with Lava Plume. This is really risky though, since your opponent can outplay you and predict your switches. Mega Gallade is also really annoying, as it can literally beat this core just because of it's offensive typing. Same thing for Mega Gardevoir, however, it needs to rely on the shaky accuracy of Focus Blast to beat Heatran. Too lazy to list all the threats to this core since no core is perfect.
Anyways, you guys get the idea. Venusaur and Heatran handle the majority of the top tier threats, and are staples on stall. Something else that I forgot to mention is that they form 2/3 of an FWG core, so feel free to add something like ScarfKeld since it can check Landorus and severely damage Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Gardevoir.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SDef / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Stealth Rock / Protect
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
Yeah good point, Kyu-B wrecks that core. Mega Scizor lacking Superpower can't get past Heatran, but I'll mention both of those.
I was under the impression that Superpower was standard on offensives sets for Ferrothorn and Heatran.
Superpower is standard only on all out attacking mega scizor, and SD + 3 attacks mega scizor. Other sets like SD 2 attacks + roost run don't tend to run superpower as an attacking move. Also, tbh, ferro is kinda set up fodder for Mega Scizor, considering that the only thing it can do is leech seed it, while it watches mega scizor get to +6 and then use bug bite.
I think Clefable could work well with this Defensive core. As it stops Kyurem-B, which scares this core.Here's an old classic from XY:
VenuTran
Defensive Core
Basically, these two have really good synergy together, and wall a large portion of the metagame. Stuff that threatens Heatran, like Azumarill and Keldeo are easily walled by Venusaur. Stuff that threatens Venusaur like Talonflame and Latios are walled by Heatran (bar EQ Latios which isn't exactly common). Heatran is also a very effective SR setter, phazer, and is just a pain in the butt do deal with. So is Venusaur. They are both really bulky, so they can comfortably take lots of hits, and Venusaur gets recovery with Synthesis. These two are pretty much the main staples on stall. However, what makes them really effective in the ORAS metagame is that they wall most of the top tier threats together. Pokemon like Latios, Azumarill, Zard X without EQ, Clefable, Keldeo, Talonflame, Ferrothorn, Slowbro etc are all handled well by this core.
There are still lots of ways to beat this core though. Landorus can easily crush this core with Sheer Force boosted Earth Power and Psychic, Mega Pinsir literally eats this core for breakfast with it's high powered STAB moves, and takes care of Heatran easily with either Close Combat or Earthquake. Mega Metagross is also annoying to deal with, but if Heatran is healthy enough it can deal with Hammer Arm variants. However, you can also play around Mega Metagross, for example, you could send in Venusaur, and on the Zen Headbutt go into Heatran. Then switch back into Venusaur on the Hammer Arm and then back into Heatran on the Zen headbutt. Now you outspeed and can hurt it with Lava Plume. This is really risky though, since your opponent can outplay you and predict your switches. Mega Gallade is also really annoying, as it can literally beat this core just because of it's offensive typing. Same thing for Mega Gardevoir, however, it needs to rely on the shaky accuracy of Focus Blast to beat Heatran. Kyu-B and SD Mega Scizor (with Superpower) also beat this core. Too lazy to list all the threats to this core since no core is perfect.
Anyways, you guys get the idea. Venusaur and Heatran handle the majority of the top tier threats, and are staples on stall. Something else that I forgot to mention is that they form 2/3 of an FWG core, so feel free to add something like ScarfKeld since it can check Landorus and severely damage Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Gardevoir.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SDef / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Stealth Rock / Protect
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
lol Clefable stops Kyu-B?
That's not what my calc said.
Your calcs don't have LO and Firehusky's do, hence the power difference (and why I hand-type sets when I do Kyu-B sets). So while Cefable can beat the Substitute+Leftovers set (at least I think it can; I'd rather not go into the nitty-gritty of the turn playout), it'll likely lose to LO+Roost sets and Scarf sets carrying Iron Head 1v1, though Kyu-B does have to be pretty healthy to take it out.
Hey, if you use it correctly, it's great. It went straight to my team because it works well alongside Talonflame and Gyarados.
You still have to play carefully with Leaf Storm due to it having extremely limited PP. It may be a Nasty Plot instead of a stat down now, but acting like it has absolutely no drawback is misrepresenting Serperior and over-exaggerating it's strengths to the point it seems awful.
I see your point, but I still feel like you benefit more from Lati@s. I mean, Raikou outspeeds base 110's already for the core, as well as Char X after a DD. Also, Heatran CAN be switched in on by Lati@s on 3/4 moves (Fire Blast, EPower, APower), so it stands to still be viable in the core.
Oh of course; but he was talking as if Leaf Storm could be used on any switch in with no cost no matter what the situation.
Ahh I see what you mean, the first leaf storm is neglible unless it hits super effectively for sure.
I'm saying even if something switches in to resist it, it's still a free boost. Unless something comes in with the rare Sap Sipper.
but if something comes in to resist it, you have the boost, but it's not free because a switch in could very easily wall you like talonflame or heatran or something.
Idk about you, but I make sure both of those are taken care of before I send in Serperior.
Sorry. :P
