time for some mons i feel are worthy of a rise:
View attachment 38913Big Bear of Destruction: Ursaring C =====> C+ or B-
This thing is absolutely ridiculously otherworldly powerful. No physical wall in the tier can take a +2 Guts Boosted Facade or any of its coverage moves and live to tell the tail.
Of course, we have zangoose here, which completely outclasses Ursarings Quick Feet set, but the Guts set is just something else.
Whoa whoa whoa... already you're starting out on the wrong foot. To straighten things out,
Zangoose completely outclasses the Guts set, but Quick Feet Ursaring is not outclassed. This is because Zangoose can kill most of the things Guts Ursaring kills without any more trouble, and even more targets as well (Samurott, Sawk, Mesprit, etc.); whereas Quick Feet Ursaring hits a speed tier Zangoose doesn't hit, aka being faster than positive 106s (assuming Jolly Ursa).
Im just gonna gives some calcs, and let that do the talking :
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 225-266 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 258-304 (84.8 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 226-267 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 450-531 (127.1 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 325-384 (81 - 95.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 651-766 (162.3 - 191%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 214-252 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 490-578 (118.3 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 477-562 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
^just for show; has 0 relevance but demostrates how utterly ridiculous this things damage output is.
Im guessing you can tell from these calcs, this thing has 0 safe switch ins. More so than Zangoose as they often dont have room to carry SD on their set, but it allows Ursaring to destroy the entire tier. Assuming Ursaring carries the Guts SD Facade CC and Crunch set, the only switch in left is Carbink:
+2 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 232-274 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
You can post all the fancy calcs you want, but I can easily post a wall of Zangoose calcs and show you results that are just as impressive, and even more calcs on things Ursaring cannot hope to KO.
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 393-463 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 435-513 (149.4 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 331-390 (109.6 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 421-496 (139.8 - 164.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Going Jolly lets u still do ~99% minimum to Mesprit, so even that ain't too big of a loss.
Of course, Ursaring is very easily checked, stalled down by protect and moves like Fake out to the point where it is a liability against Hyper Offense; but it can use its decent bulk to tank a decently powerful hit, and retaliate with an OHKO, something Zangoose could only dream about:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 269-317 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mismagius Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 248-292 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 225-265 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
Assuming you're bringing a fresh Ursaring to "check" these Pokemon: this means Ursaring has yet to activate its Orb, and thus will not do much damage in return (your strongest neutral attack pre-Orb would be Close Combat) against most targets.
252+ Atk Ursaring Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 182-215 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Mismagius: 144-170 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As for Rotom, it shouldn't be too farfetch'd to say it'd rather be Volt Switching than trying to take on a fresh Ursaring with TBolt. If your Ursa is already boosted, then it will likely have already taken some damage, then the extra bulk over Zangoose becomes rather meaningless. If you're going to use Ghosts that Zangoose cannot Quick Attack as examples, keep in mind that Quick Feet Ursaring can smash these Ghosts without any trouble at all.
Something with 0 switch ins shouldnt be in the depths of C rank, at least C+ or even B- is adequate.
Just a reminder Ursaring has the same speed as Pangoro, thats doing pretty decent right now i heard.
yeah yeah its difficult to get a free SD but the constant 50/50 is worth it, especially if you predict and it works out in your favour :-]
Comparing Ursaring with Pangoro is just so....I don't even know where to start. Panda's success comes from its super strong STAB combo that yields basically no risk to itself (unlike Ursaring which needs status to make Facade work), and the fact that it isn't worn down; quite the opposite actually due to Drain Punch. The 'force switches to get SD' thing would also apply to Zangoose. In short, Ursaring would've made a pretty potent wallbreaker if it weren't for the fact that Zangoose exists and is not only just as strong, but also has speed, Knock Off, and priority on its side. This leaves Ursaring's sole niche as a Quick Feet sweeper, combining Swellow's speed with Zangoose's coverage in exchange for a less powerful (but still strong) Facade.
Claydol B=====> B+ or A-
This thing should be higher than it is right now. What this is is a reliable spinner, that takes minimal damage from hazards (the maximum being 6%) and manages to settup stealth rock as well. The immunity to spikes is really nice and allows it to come in on the spiker and spin on its face rather than fear the toxic spikes or fear the damage from regular spikes if it needs to counter something else on the opponents team. Having the Ground Type sub Typing is a real boom as it gives it free switch ins on most spikers and toxic spikers in the tier (im looking at Garbodor mainly.) To boot, it has a decent Dual Stab in Earth Power and Psychic as well as Signal Beam to lure those pesky Malamars for stall teams. At the moment, its stalls best hazard control imo besides probably Xatu but thats not as reliable at spinning as this, and
the likes of Cryogonal and Sandslash can be abused due to their weakness' (weak physical defense and not great general bulk respecitively) and as a result Claydol is allowed to shine through. It functions similarly to Prinplup in the fact it spins hazards away then sets them up itself, which is handy on a team that needs spin and not defog.
Only problem i can find with using Claydol atm is that its typing clashes with big threats in the tier that you might want to use as well, like Mesprit, Musharna, Uxie and Malamar.
Overall however, this is probably NU's most effective rapid spinning option and its rank should reflect this.
Not opposed to some sort of raise, but just wanna point out the bolded bits. If Cryo and Sandslash have issues with their weaknesses, then Claydol is the most vulnerable of the three. Its typing leaves it hit for super effective damage by...just about 90% (or more) of the whole tier, because its weaknesses are just that common and widespread, which heavily undermines its 'general bulk'. In fact the general bulk thing isn't really a point in Claydol's favor as Cryo's special bulk and Sandslash's physical bulk let them set up safely against certain opponents; Cryogonal has a pretty safe spinning opportunity against most special attackers (usually Water-types and Grass-types), while Sandslash has an easier time spinning against physical attackers such as Scyther, Liepard, Hariyama, Tauros, and Kangaskhan.
That said, points for Claydol include its wide offensive movepool, giving it
arguably the best offensive presence amongst the NU spinners (which, now that I look at it, isn't really saying much of our spinners :/), meaning it can fend for itself better than other spinners and be less of a liability for offensive teammates. It also doesn't usually clash typings from what I've seen, at least not more so than other spinners. The most common Claydol partner I've seen is Scyther, but things like Typhlosion, Sneasel, Sturdy Sawk, Rotom-S, Vivillon, etc. (things that really benefit from hazard removal) don't clash typings at all with Claydol; hell, some benefit defensively or even offensively. Cryo, on the other hand, does clash typings and weaknesses somewhat with most of the aforementioned Pokemon, while Sandslash doesn't have the coverage to be as useful to offensive / balance teams as it wants to be. I don't really know how beneficial Claydol is on stall given that Cryogonal or even Sandslash would seem to help stall more, but I digress.
Ursaring is fine where it as in
C. I wouldn't mind a rise for Claydol to
B+ given its usefulness on most offensive / balance teams nowadays.