Sheer Force Feraligar sounds really good. It has a nice defensive typing, and great bulk. It can run a multitude of sets, such as Double Dance (Agility and Swords dance), Dragon Dance, and a simple Swords Dance set. Double Dance is great against both HO and stall. Set up SDs against stall teams, and break down walls; set up Agility against HO teams and use it's power to hit frail mons. Dragon Dance is a solid sweeping option, while SD is great to break down walls to help a teammate sweep. It's also pretty good on rain. In BW, Feraligar was actually a thing in OU, because of potential rain + torrent boosted waterfalls and aqua jets. Sheer Force is pretty much the same as Torrent, it is a bit less situational, and boosts all moves that have side effects, not just water type moves. SD + Rain + Sheer Force boosted waterfalls just sound nasty. An SD set like SD / Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Crunch sounds pretty nice to me.
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Other ORAS OU Type Analysis: Week 16 - Dark Type [Check post #140]
- Thread starter Celticpride
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Week 5's type is type is the Electric Type!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions/topics:
Week 5's type is type is the Electric Type!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions/topics:
- What are the key differences between Raikou and Mega Manectric, and which one is better suited to the current meta?
- Why has Zapdos fallen off in OU? Does it still have notable niches?
- Thundurus-I has been a dominant metagame force several times since its introduction (even considered broken at points). What makes a meta more or less favorable to Thundy-I?
- Are there any notable advantages to using Thundurus-Therian over its Incarnate counterpart (think KOes it barely secures and such)?
- Is Rotom-W *gasp* declining in effectiveness?
- What is Mega Ampharos' most viable set in OU?
Raikou and Mega Manectric are both equally decent. Mane has the power and speed, while Rai has better special bulk and doesn't take up the mega slot. The biggest reason for Raikou possibly overtaking Mane is just that: it isn't mega.
Zapdos has dropped off because a bunch of new stuff in ORAS outspeeds and does hefty damage to it. But it didn't get to OU for that, it got there because it's a bulky defogger with offensive presence and checks the birdspam flying around everywhere. On that topic, birdspam isn't all that common atm, barring Talonflame. If Mega Metagross gets the boot (and possibly Mega Diancie after that), the birds will be back, and so will Zapdos.
Thundurus-I is a fantastic mon because it beats stuff, and what it doesn't beat it paralyzes or VS's out of. He likes having Metagross around partially because a paralyzed Metagross is a much less dangerous one. He also has benefited from the Knock Off buff. Mons that are hampered by paralysis and/or losing their item always have to fear Thundurus, and that's if he doesn't flat out smoke them.
Thundy-T fell out of favor when his Incarnate form was unbanned in XY, and rightfully so. That said, while Incarnate is suited to offensive support, Therian is a better sweeper, thanks to being stronger and his main niche, Volt Absorb. Because of the lower speed, he should only attempt to sweep with Agility, but he can run 3 attacks, SubAgility, or Nasty Plot for a double boosting set. I posted about him here if you're interested.
Rotom-W is actually not declining in effectiveness as much as some people think. To be fair, there's a bunch of stuff that it doesn't enjoy facing, especially after ORAS, where several mons can just flat out overpower it. That said, it still checks some of the new stuff, but Diancie, Sableye, and some other random stuff like Serperior give it some issues. I don't see it dropping out of OU anytime soon, though.
Ampharos... well, this one seems to not be all that great in OU, to be honest. I would say its best use is on a balanced or bulky offense team, with, among other things, access to Heal Bell and a slow Volt Switch. That said, it does have a fair amount of opportunity cost, namely due being a mega.
Zapdos has dropped off because a bunch of new stuff in ORAS outspeeds and does hefty damage to it. But it didn't get to OU for that, it got there because it's a bulky defogger with offensive presence and checks the birdspam flying around everywhere. On that topic, birdspam isn't all that common atm, barring Talonflame. If Mega Metagross gets the boot (and possibly Mega Diancie after that), the birds will be back, and so will Zapdos.
Thundurus-I is a fantastic mon because it beats stuff, and what it doesn't beat it paralyzes or VS's out of. He likes having Metagross around partially because a paralyzed Metagross is a much less dangerous one. He also has benefited from the Knock Off buff. Mons that are hampered by paralysis and/or losing their item always have to fear Thundurus, and that's if he doesn't flat out smoke them.
Thundy-T fell out of favor when his Incarnate form was unbanned in XY, and rightfully so. That said, while Incarnate is suited to offensive support, Therian is a better sweeper, thanks to being stronger and his main niche, Volt Absorb. Because of the lower speed, he should only attempt to sweep with Agility, but he can run 3 attacks, SubAgility, or Nasty Plot for a double boosting set. I posted about him here if you're interested.
Rotom-W is actually not declining in effectiveness as much as some people think. To be fair, there's a bunch of stuff that it doesn't enjoy facing, especially after ORAS, where several mons can just flat out overpower it. That said, it still checks some of the new stuff, but Diancie, Sableye, and some other random stuff like Serperior give it some issues. I don't see it dropping out of OU anytime soon, though.
Ampharos... well, this one seems to not be all that great in OU, to be honest. I would say its best use is on a balanced or bulky offense team, with, among other things, access to Heal Bell and a slow Volt Switch. That said, it does have a fair amount of opportunity cost, namely due being a mega.
Zapdos is also a very reliable defogger with great bulk, and doesn't lose to Bisharp like other defoggers because of Heat Wave. It also can scare off common hazard setters such as defensive lando-t with HP Ice, Ferrothorn with heat wave, skarmory with t bolt etc.
Lando-i can easily tear apart balanced teams, and zapdos is an amazing answer to it.
Tbh, I think Raikou is better than mega man in this metagame; AV sets are decent answers to gengar, and it doesn't take up a mega slot. ORAS introduced a lot of new megas, and so there is even more competition for the mega slot. By using mega man, you can't use other (arguably better) mega such as sableye, mega metagross (if this doesn't get banned), mega altaria, mega lopunny, mega diancie, mega gallade, and I can go on. Granted, mega man does have some redeeming qualities: it's faster than raikou, lightning rod pre mega, has intimidate which allows it to serve as a better check to birdspam (jolly SD talonflame is quite common now to outrun raikou), and has fire-type coverage, but I still think raikou is better adapted to this metagame just because the competition for that mega slot is so fierce.
I think what's making thundy so good right now is prankster thunder wave. There are many set up sweepers in OU: zard x, gyarados mega, altaria, RP mega metagross, mega gallade etc. Thundurus pretty much serves as an emergency button to all of these mons. Even if you misplay and let them get up an SD or whatever, you can still sack something and then bring in thundy to paralyze them, effectively shutting them down and stopping the sweep. Of course you do lose 2 mons, but that's always better than losing all 6. Thundurus's speed tier is also rather trolly, sitting at base 111 (I think?). In ORAS, the new base 100 is 110. Thundy just barely outspeeds all the new base 110 speed megas, allowing it to revenge kill them (if weakened a bit), or check them.
Thundurus-T is also rather interesting, it's slower than thundy-i, but hits really hard. In rain teams, it can spam hurricane and thunder, two otherwise inaccurate moves, but in rain they are 100% accurate, and have very high base power. It also can run a double dancer set with agility and nasty plot, allowing it to sweep unprepared teams (lols at common stuff like celebi + heatran + rotom-w).
Lando-i can easily tear apart balanced teams, and zapdos is an amazing answer to it.
Tbh, I think Raikou is better than mega man in this metagame; AV sets are decent answers to gengar, and it doesn't take up a mega slot. ORAS introduced a lot of new megas, and so there is even more competition for the mega slot. By using mega man, you can't use other (arguably better) mega such as sableye, mega metagross (if this doesn't get banned), mega altaria, mega lopunny, mega diancie, mega gallade, and I can go on. Granted, mega man does have some redeeming qualities: it's faster than raikou, lightning rod pre mega, has intimidate which allows it to serve as a better check to birdspam (jolly SD talonflame is quite common now to outrun raikou), and has fire-type coverage, but I still think raikou is better adapted to this metagame just because the competition for that mega slot is so fierce.
I think what's making thundy so good right now is prankster thunder wave. There are many set up sweepers in OU: zard x, gyarados mega, altaria, RP mega metagross, mega gallade etc. Thundurus pretty much serves as an emergency button to all of these mons. Even if you misplay and let them get up an SD or whatever, you can still sack something and then bring in thundy to paralyze them, effectively shutting them down and stopping the sweep. Of course you do lose 2 mons, but that's always better than losing all 6. Thundurus's speed tier is also rather trolly, sitting at base 111 (I think?). In ORAS, the new base 100 is 110. Thundy just barely outspeeds all the new base 110 speed megas, allowing it to revenge kill them (if weakened a bit), or check them.
Thundurus-T is also rather interesting, it's slower than thundy-i, but hits really hard. In rain teams, it can spam hurricane and thunder, two otherwise inaccurate moves, but in rain they are 100% accurate, and have very high base power. It also can run a double dancer set with agility and nasty plot, allowing it to sweep unprepared teams (lols at common stuff like celebi + heatran + rotom-w).
Raikou can run items, slightly more bulky, and some different coverage moves being Extrasensory and Shadow Ball, while M-Manectric has Fire coverage with flamethrower and Overheat along with a higher speed tier and Intimidate. Ones not really better more so of being more suited to a team. M-Manectric likes hazard support because it falls under a really nice speed tier to clean up late-game against threats like Torn-T and Weavile, something that Raikou will naturally get outpaced by.
Garbage Tflame check cause at +2 after rocks Flare Blitz does a ton if not KO it. Zapdos usage correlates to M-Pinsir usage so when M-Pinsir usage declines such as now, Zapdos will decline in usage as well, and vice versa. It's one of the biggest reasons why it was OU in the first place back when M-Pinsir was pretty dominant in the tier and wouldn't be surprised if eventually drops. Notable niches I guess is that it can run stuff like Agility LO sets and Charge BP or Agility BP sets but nothing too fancy. SR weak defoggers in OU are usually frowned up because losing a 1/4 of your health to remove hazards puts you at a tremendous risk against various forms of offense and murders momentum when your support set has no real power behind it, unlike something such as the Latis.
The bulkier the meta, the less consistent Thundurus-I becomes, not that it isn't consistent, but its defenses are so poor that it necessitates the opposing team has prior damage for it to fully succeed. What makes up for this though is the diversity that Thundurus has so it'll always be able to cater itself to meta-game trends but the typing and bulk that leaves it prone to a bunch of neutralities will be what holds it back in various situations.
Thundurus-T is subjectively the better wall-breaker because it has a higher SpAtk that provides it more immediate power. Thundy-T is nice for Electric immunity and Volt-Turn cores since the higher special attack makes Scarf a bit more viable of a set.
Yes it is. When the wallbreaker to pivot ratio favors the wall-breaking side Rotom-W loses effectiveness. It simply isn't able to keep up with this factor the usage of Celebi, the ease and simplicity of netting hits on it with stuff like Secret Sword Keldeo, Lum Chomp, M-Sableye, Clefable, etc. So you have cores that do two things, wallbreaks to threaten Rotom-Ws pivoting utility and attackers / utility mons that wear down Rotom-W. Because of this ease of wearing it down Pokemon that normally trouble Rotom-W can take advantage of the previous points along with forcing this pressure on Rotom-W through double switches as Rotom-W is used mostly as a defensive tool with momentum but fails to gain momentum against immediate threats, thus making reads easier to catch from the player using Rotom-W.
Agility is doodoo and people need to stop hyping it like it's amazing when it really isn't. Defensive sets are cool but unfortunately it is slow as hell so it needs a good amount of support. A fun set I've been using is Volt Switch, Sub, Toxic, HP Fire with Toxic bypassing Magic Bounce due to Mold Breaker for M-Sableye and Sub to alleviate predictions against potential switch ins, HP Fire for Ferros. Sets not exactly that viable but it's a garbage Pokemon overall anyways so you got to take what you can I guess.
Alright, kind of a quiet week, hopefully this one will be more lively!
Week 6's type is the Ground Type!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions/topics:
Week 6's type is the Ground Type!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Alright, the usual questions in the OP apply. As far as more specific questions/topics:
- Has Mamoswine lost effectiveness as a hazard setter?
- How effective is Sand offense currently? Can Excadrill be effective outside of Sand?
- Is mixed Mega Garchomp effective in breaking down stall and balanced teams? Why would I use it over Kyurem-B, a very similar mon?
- What is the ideal archetype (balanced, HO, etc) for Double Dance Landorus-T, and what are some good teammates for it?
- What combination of coverage moves gives Lanorus-I the most overall coverage?
- Can Gliscor still stallbreak effectively, especially with the advent of Mega Sableye stall?
Has Mamoswine lost effectiveness as a hazard setter?
Not really. SR leading is still kinda meh, but Mamo can still rock SR+3 attacks effectively.
How effective is Sand offense currently? Can Excadrill be effective outside of Sand?
I can't vouch for the playstyle as I haven't seen much of it. That said, Exca does have Mold Breaker, making it able to get SR past Sableye and can nail Levitate users such as Gengar and Rotom-W with EQ.
Is mixed Mega Garchomp effective in breaking down stall and balanced teams? Why would I use it over Kyurem-B, a very similar mon?
Really only on sand teams. Otherwise, just use Kyub.
What is the ideal archetype (balanced, HO, etc) for Double Dance Landorus-T, and what are some good teammates for it?
Double Dance Lando-T is probably best on balance leaning towards offense. Most of its teammates should be ones that can break down physical walls. For Skarmory, Magnezone takes care of it. For other Lando-T, Kyurem-B or Mamoswine can get rid of it. For stuff like Chansey and Sableye, just chip away at them with whatever you have and they will go down eventually.
What combination of coverage moves gives Landorus-I the most overall coverage?
Earth Power is an absolute must, but other than that, Lando's movepool is good enough that it really depends on your team. Overall, though, three move coverage is best with EP, Focus Blast, and HP Ice. Four move coverage should add either Psychic, Sludge Wave, or even Knock Off and/or Rock Slide.
Can Gliscor still stallbreak effectively, especially with the advent of Mega Sableye stall?
It can't break Sableye as well unless it runs the gimmicky Fling+Toxic Orb, but it can still get rid of its teammates, namely Chansey and Wish users, which deprive Sableye of its status removal and bonus heals, respectively.
Also, is it me, or have more sand teams in general been using Hippowdon over Tyranitar recently?
Not really. SR leading is still kinda meh, but Mamo can still rock SR+3 attacks effectively.
How effective is Sand offense currently? Can Excadrill be effective outside of Sand?
I can't vouch for the playstyle as I haven't seen much of it. That said, Exca does have Mold Breaker, making it able to get SR past Sableye and can nail Levitate users such as Gengar and Rotom-W with EQ.
Is mixed Mega Garchomp effective in breaking down stall and balanced teams? Why would I use it over Kyurem-B, a very similar mon?
Really only on sand teams. Otherwise, just use Kyub.
What is the ideal archetype (balanced, HO, etc) for Double Dance Landorus-T, and what are some good teammates for it?
Double Dance Lando-T is probably best on balance leaning towards offense. Most of its teammates should be ones that can break down physical walls. For Skarmory, Magnezone takes care of it. For other Lando-T, Kyurem-B or Mamoswine can get rid of it. For stuff like Chansey and Sableye, just chip away at them with whatever you have and they will go down eventually.
What combination of coverage moves gives Landorus-I the most overall coverage?
Earth Power is an absolute must, but other than that, Lando's movepool is good enough that it really depends on your team. Overall, though, three move coverage is best with EP, Focus Blast, and HP Ice. Four move coverage should add either Psychic, Sludge Wave, or even Knock Off and/or Rock Slide.
Can Gliscor still stallbreak effectively, especially with the advent of Mega Sableye stall?
It can't break Sableye as well unless it runs the gimmicky Fling+Toxic Orb, but it can still get rid of its teammates, namely Chansey and Wish users, which deprive Sableye of its status removal and bonus heals, respectively.
Also, is it me, or have more sand teams in general been using Hippowdon over Tyranitar recently?
Yeah but it still runs a bonker Life Orb set that takes a dump on Balance >_>
It's such an underrated playstyle that I don't understand why more people don't use it. It invalidates so many offensive, balanced, and even aspects of stall and SD Excadrill is such a serious threat. Excadrill can be effective outside of sand but it's so team specific at that point that in most cases you're better off just using sand, unless that role it has outside of sand fits your needs.
Yeah but it's a pretty niche option, although it can be used effectively as little credit as people give it for. To be perfectly honest using that over Kyurem-B more has to do with team composition than the effectiveness of one or the other. Kyurem-B is more diverse and doesn't take up a mega slot which is an enormous selling point amongst other traits while under sand Mega Chomp is a serious threat.
Forms of offense basically, whether that be bulky or Hyper Offense. Same partners that work with Lando-T in general such as Starmie, Clefable, Scizor, etc. really.
Earth Power, HP Ice, Sludge Wave, and Knock Off is one set that will pretty much hit everything. The thing about this question is that its so team specific because a set that provides the most overall coverage in a general sense probably isn't even the set that benefits the team the most.
Yeah, and I don't think much explanation needs to be said due to the effectiveness of its SD variants along with its effectiveness for just being Gliscor. Can't really speak on a question like this adequately when it'll always come down to the context of meta-game trends and cores surrounding both the user and opposition.
Longevity is key on balance, which is the more consistent playstyle you see so yes this isn't just you.
People should ask me and others questions about types as well. I think that'll add more to the discussion and make it more interesting, to me at least.
Yeah, that makes sense. Hippo is better on more defensively inclined sand teams anyway because of its recovery and bulk.
Anyway, I was going to post this earlier but forgotand I needed an excuse to get to 900 posts. This is a ground mon that's not actually OU by usage, but was featured in this RMT due to its decent niche:
Seismitoad is a solid bulky water with access to Water Absorb, meaning it can switch in on Scald and Hydro Pump with impunity and get some healing out of it. It functions best as a physically defensive set, as seen in the aforementioned RMT. While some might opt for Gastrodon here, and it's not a terrible choice, Seismitoad gets Stealth Rock and Knock Off for good utility options. It can also abuse Swift Swim for rain teams, although that's probably better done by the likes of Kabutops or Omastar.
Anyway, I was going to post this earlier but forgot
Seismitoad is a solid bulky water with access to Water Absorb, meaning it can switch in on Scald and Hydro Pump with impunity and get some healing out of it. It functions best as a physically defensive set, as seen in the aforementioned RMT. While some might opt for Gastrodon here, and it's not a terrible choice, Seismitoad gets Stealth Rock and Knock Off for good utility options. It can also abuse Swift Swim for rain teams, although that's probably better done by the likes of Kabutops or Omastar.
Ground types have only been getting better in the metagame recently. Lando-T is dropping in effectiveness because of its oversaturation but Lando-I has replaced it as the go-to form with few safe switch-ins. I agree with AM on the coverage question as that is what I have been running and it's walled by very little except Skarmory and doesn't do a ton to Gyarados.
The rise of Hippo really speaks to the bulky offense / balance trend we've been going toward, and it's just such a nice wall that checks so many things. It's a very reliable rock setter while summoning sandstorm to wear stuff down. Many people do opt for Sand Force though if they have something like Mega Venusaur which doesnt like sand (synthesis).
Gliscor is still a fantastic stallbreaker. For stuff like Sableye, it can run Swords Dance over Taunt (I guess making it more of a wallbreaker) making it very dangerous against slower teams. Gliscor's inability to be inflicted with status makes it a real problem for slower mons who rely on toxic / will o wisp to wear stuff down and don't tend to carry much in the way of type coverage.
Also I would say Hippowdon is the most reliable volt switch blocker as it can tank 2 HP Ices (the standard HP for electric types) from most pokemon with the standard mixed bulk EV spread. However it doesn't like switching into Rotom-W, but I can't think of a ground type that really does. Mamoswine is also pretty decent at it though, and Quagsire is also good at it because most electric types don't carry grass type coverage
The rise of Hippo really speaks to the bulky offense / balance trend we've been going toward, and it's just such a nice wall that checks so many things. It's a very reliable rock setter while summoning sandstorm to wear stuff down. Many people do opt for Sand Force though if they have something like Mega Venusaur which doesnt like sand (synthesis).
Gliscor is still a fantastic stallbreaker. For stuff like Sableye, it can run Swords Dance over Taunt (I guess making it more of a wallbreaker) making it very dangerous against slower teams. Gliscor's inability to be inflicted with status makes it a real problem for slower mons who rely on toxic / will o wisp to wear stuff down and don't tend to carry much in the way of type coverage.
Also I would say Hippowdon is the most reliable volt switch blocker as it can tank 2 HP Ices (the standard HP for electric types) from most pokemon with the standard mixed bulk EV spread. However it doesn't like switching into Rotom-W, but I can't think of a ground type that really does. Mamoswine is also pretty decent at it though, and Quagsire is also good at it because most electric types don't carry grass type coverage
Quagsire has a few niches. First, it's a complete stop to Char-X unless Char carries Outrage (and very few do, Dragon Claw is preferred because you aren't locked into it for 2-3 turns). Also,it's a good stop to most Electric types.
Hippowdon can be EVd to take 2 HP Ices (I believe 112 Special Defense EVs avoids the 2HKO Mega Mane and LO Thundurus). Camerupt, Quagsire, and Mega Swampert (Swampert only on Rain teams really) also all do the job well enough.
Feel free to ask questions about anything related to Pokemon within the type. This is not a questionnaire topic even if it sometimes seems like it, it's more of a focused/guided metagame discussion. The questions are just to get people talking about different things, beyond that anything is fine within reason.
I'm no expert, but couldn't azumaril (can't spell it) be a great landorous partner? it could help both varients out by taking powerful ice attacks bar freeze dry, and benefits from lando-t's u-turn into a weak attack or predicted SR.
Theoretically yes until you realize a majority of the Ice type users have ways to get past Azumarill. Thundurus and M-Manectric with Electric moves, Mamo with a strong EQ, Weavile is the closest thing if not running the super rare Poison Jab variants.
Quagsire is definitely one of my favorite Pokemon to use. A lot of people tend to say that Unaware Clefable outclasses it, and while this is sometimes true, it isn't always, and in my opinion isn't even usually true. The Pokemon they check and counter are totally different, and even for Pokemon that they both beat, they handle them in different ways. This week is just on Ground-types though, so I'll only cover Quaggy. Basically, Quagsire's great typing, fair bulk, and amazing Unaware ability allow it to be one of the best counters to offensive Mega Charizard-X in existence, only losing to sets with Outrage, which are very rare. Thankfully for Quagsire, it doesn't stop there; almost all physical attackers fall victim to its stally tendencies (Mega Metagross without Grass Knot, DD Mega Altaria, not CB Azumarill, Mega Lopunny, Landorus-T, Air Balloon Excadrill, Talonflame, Garchomp, Bisharp, Mega Scizor, and Tyranitar for examples), and even some special attackers like Mega Manectric and Magnezone are flat out walled.
Overall, if your team need a blanket check to the various setup sweepers I listed above + a bulky water, definitely try out Quagsire. Sure, Clefable has better special bulk and a Fairy-typing, but it can't cover a lot of the Pokemon Quagsire can (Charizard, Bisharp, and Scizor for examples).
I'll post a fun set I've been using lately to some success:
Landorus-Therian @ Earth Plate
EVs: 244 Atk / 16 Def / 248 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn / Knock Off / filler
This is an adaptation that some Landorus-T have made as a result of Mega Sableye controlling the hazards game. With an Earth Plate and an Adamant nature, Lando has a decent chance to 2HKO max defense Mega Sableye. That's also assuming that said Sableye runs max defense, most are trending in more of a mixed direction. This set also retains the ability gain momentum like other Landorus-T sets, in addition to still being a blanket check to most of the physical metagame. Earth Plate in general also gives it some extra punch, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed by Earthquake with just a little chip damage.
Landorus-Therian @ Earth Plate
EVs: 244 Atk / 16 Def / 248 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn / Knock Off / filler
This is an adaptation that some Landorus-T have made as a result of Mega Sableye controlling the hazards game. With an Earth Plate and an Adamant nature, Lando has a decent chance to 2HKO max defense Mega Sableye. That's also assuming that said Sableye runs max defense, most are trending in more of a mixed direction. This set also retains the ability gain momentum like other Landorus-T sets, in addition to still being a blanket check to most of the physical metagame. Earth Plate in general also gives it some extra punch, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed by Earthquake with just a little chip damage.
The metagame has shifted a lot, I think, and one major change is that everyone is prepared for Landorus-T, be it HP Ice on their Terrakion (that's actually a thing btw) or just Ice coverage that really is everywhere. Also, stall is mostly unprepared for Lando-I, as Sylveon, which with a SDef EV spread could counter non-Sludge Wave variants, is now declining in usage and the most popular set is Specs. Now, it's opposite- players sometimes don't run Lando-T because being able to use Lando-I is just that good. It's basically a one-Pokemon counter to almost all stall teams out there. The best coverage IMO is Earth Power, Focus Blast, Knock Off, and either Psychic, HP Ice, or Sludge Wave for the LO wallbreaker. However, Lando-I can also wreck offensive teams with Modest Rock Polish, which hits even harder and most Scarfers aren't fast enough to outspeed it. There's a possibility that Mamoswine usage will rise too, considering how well it checks Landorus-I and T.
Because of Lando-I's newfound godlikeness, Hippowdon is rising in usage, as people are now realizing how good it is. It has more special bulk and more natural physical bulk than Lando-T, and it gets reliable recovery, something Lando-T really wants. It also has no double weaknesses, meaning that random Hidden Powers won't (as easily) take it out. Ice Fang on it can make up for its lower Attack, and Whirlwind and Sand are both useful as ever.
Last note is on Mamoswine. This thing is just as anti-meta as ever, even able to take on MegaEye and threaten a 2HKO if Adamant (252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 144-172 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO)
It also obviously checks both Landorus forms and can revenge kill Thundurus after a bit of prior damage (252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 250-296 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
If you really want a good VoltTurn check either look to Camerupt-Mega if you want a special-based one or Mamoswine if you want a faster, less bulky, physically based one.
Because of Lando-I's newfound godlikeness, Hippowdon is rising in usage, as people are now realizing how good it is. It has more special bulk and more natural physical bulk than Lando-T, and it gets reliable recovery, something Lando-T really wants. It also has no double weaknesses, meaning that random Hidden Powers won't (as easily) take it out. Ice Fang on it can make up for its lower Attack, and Whirlwind and Sand are both useful as ever.
Last note is on Mamoswine. This thing is just as anti-meta as ever, even able to take on MegaEye and threaten a 2HKO if Adamant (252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 144-172 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO)
It also obviously checks both Landorus forms and can revenge kill Thundurus after a bit of prior damage (252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 250-296 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
If you really want a good VoltTurn check either look to Camerupt-Mega if you want a special-based one or Mamoswine if you want a faster, less bulky, physically based one.
Week 7's type is the Psychic Type!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Psychic types as a whole have been on quite a journey throughout Pokemon history. From being the king of the hill in gen 1 to getting nerfed several times in the following generations, it has been a tough road. However, Psychic types have experienced a resurgence in OU following the Aegislash ban. Psychic often seems to be written off as a bad typing in general, but the term "bulky Psychic" gets thrown around with quite a bit of weight as well.
I'm going with more of an open ended format this week to try something different. If you have any ideas for the thread to make it more interesting, throw a PM my way. Outside of that, the usual questions in the OP are a good place to look for ideas. Feel free to talk about any trends or new sets among OU viable Psychic types. Talk about as much or as little as you like. Happy discussing!
(Note that discussion isn't limited to the above Pokemon)
Psychic types as a whole have been on quite a journey throughout Pokemon history. From being the king of the hill in gen 1 to getting nerfed several times in the following generations, it has been a tough road. However, Psychic types have experienced a resurgence in OU following the Aegislash ban. Psychic often seems to be written off as a bad typing in general, but the term "bulky Psychic" gets thrown around with quite a bit of weight as well.
I'm going with more of an open ended format this week to try something different. If you have any ideas for the thread to make it more interesting, throw a PM my way. Outside of that, the usual questions in the OP are a good place to look for ideas. Feel free to talk about any trends or new sets among OU viable Psychic types. Talk about as much or as little as you like. Happy discussing!
It's no accident that several Psychic mons are good in OU right now. Lati@s are still Lati@s, Gallade is the best offensive Psychic mega not named Metagross, and even Jirachi and Celebi are back, the former being the annoying haxy bastard it always was, while the latter is arguably the best Keldeo check and a versatile mon in general.
Despite several glaring weaknesses, Psychic still has its defensive merits, namely a Fighting resistance, and most of them have secondary typings to aid that (Celebi has Grass, Jirachi and Gardevoir check dragons, Slowbro has Water). Hell, even Latias makes for a decent bulky attacker with Roost and CM.
Despite several glaring weaknesses, Psychic still has its defensive merits, namely a Fighting resistance, and most of them have secondary typings to aid that (Celebi has Grass, Jirachi and Gardevoir check dragons, Slowbro has Water). Hell, even Latias makes for a decent bulky attacker with Roost and CM.
What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?
Mega Metagross is super popular, and is actually being suspected atm. Latios and Latias have also been staples for more offensively oriented teams, as they are great offensive defoggers. However, their speed tier got a little bit worse in ORAS, because there are a bunch of new base 110 speed megas such as Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Diancie. Starmie is a great offensive spinner, and with Analytic, it can actually hit pretty hard. Starmie is great coverage and can force lots of switches, giving it many opportunities to spin away hazards. Mega Gardevoir was also super common after the Aegislash ban, and during the late XY era it was literally everywhere. Mega Gallade is also seen in OU a lot. Celebi has been rising in usage too. It can run baton pass sets with either SD or Nasty Plot, making it a guessing game of which move it is carrying, or which mon it'll pass to.
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
Even though cress is only RU, it is probably the most reliable answer to Landorus-I on stall teams, but even then, it's vulnerable to being worn down because of moonlight's low PP, and it can also be pursuit trapped. AV Slowking can handle Mega Metagross pretty well, while also being able to beat Keldeo, a top tier threat.
What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
Victini is sometimes considered on stall teams, as it can handle most fairies rather effectively and isn't too passive, as v-create hits like a nuke. Jirachi is also in the same situation as Victini; it handles fairies especially well, and can also provide wish, healing wish (although not commonly seen on stall teams), and SR support.
What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
Mainly fighting-types. Most fighting-types have trouble dealing with bulkier psychic-type Pokemon. Keldeo has a hard time against Latias, although it can be worn down by scald burns and entry hazards, Gallade and the rare Medicham have trouble against normal Slowbro and mega slowbro. Starmie is a solid offensive check to lots of mons in the tier, such as Heatran, LO Breloom, Keldeo, the list goes on.
What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?Bisharp is rather annoying for Psychic types to face. Sucker Punch can take out faster mons like Latios, Latias, and Starmie, while knock off is in general annoying for any Pokemon that prefers having it's item. It also can run pursuit, creating mind games against Pokemon such as the Lati twins. Heatran is also a pain in the butt to deal with, as it resists psychic-type moves, and can use toxic, putting your mons on a timer.
What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
Victini is actually quite underrated, it hits like a truck with CB v-create. It can also run a multitude of sets such as scarf, special, or subPUP. Special sets with glaciate are nice to catch landorus-t, a common check to it, on the switch. Mega Metagross is also a great offensive psychic-type mon. It has great coverage with meteor mash, zen headbutt, ice punch, and hammer arm / grass knot, while also being insanely bulky, with a great speed tier too. Mega Gardevoir is an absolute nuke with pixilate hyper voice, and beats mega sableye, which is really common atm.
What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
Slowbro is really bulky, and doesn't really require too much prediction, as it has regenerator, giving it free health every time it switches out. Mega Slowbro is even bulkier, and can run a "cro" set, or a double dancer set with iron defense and calm mind, making it hard to take down. Latias mega is also quite bulky, and because it holds a mega stone, knock off doesn't do a lot of damage to it, while it can set up CM's and make use of boosts accumulated with stored power. It also has reliable recovery in roost.
What Pokemon of this type increased in viability in the transition to the ORAS meta?
Mega Metagross is really obvious, it was basically in obscurity during XY, and ORAS granted it a mega forme, with solid bulk, speed, offensive stats, and tough claws. Latias also got stored power, which was illegal before, and this is one of the main reasons, why CM Mega Latias is used. I guess Mega Gardevoir too because sableye and stall in general was kind of revived, but it also gained a new offensive check which is mega metagross, although the suspect test is still going on; if mega metagross gets banned, it'll get a lot better.
Have any Pokemon of this type benefited from access to new move tutors, abilities, or legal move combinations?
I think there's only mega latias + stored power, can't really think of anything else.
Mega Metagross is super popular, and is actually being suspected atm. Latios and Latias have also been staples for more offensively oriented teams, as they are great offensive defoggers. However, their speed tier got a little bit worse in ORAS, because there are a bunch of new base 110 speed megas such as Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Diancie. Starmie is a great offensive spinner, and with Analytic, it can actually hit pretty hard. Starmie is great coverage and can force lots of switches, giving it many opportunities to spin away hazards. Mega Gardevoir was also super common after the Aegislash ban, and during the late XY era it was literally everywhere. Mega Gallade is also seen in OU a lot. Celebi has been rising in usage too. It can run baton pass sets with either SD or Nasty Plot, making it a guessing game of which move it is carrying, or which mon it'll pass to.
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
Even though cress is only RU, it is probably the most reliable answer to Landorus-I on stall teams, but even then, it's vulnerable to being worn down because of moonlight's low PP, and it can also be pursuit trapped. AV Slowking can handle Mega Metagross pretty well, while also being able to beat Keldeo, a top tier threat.
What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?
Victini is sometimes considered on stall teams, as it can handle most fairies rather effectively and isn't too passive, as v-create hits like a nuke. Jirachi is also in the same situation as Victini; it handles fairies especially well, and can also provide wish, healing wish (although not commonly seen on stall teams), and SR support.
What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?
Mainly fighting-types. Most fighting-types have trouble dealing with bulkier psychic-type Pokemon. Keldeo has a hard time against Latias, although it can be worn down by scald burns and entry hazards, Gallade and the rare Medicham have trouble against normal Slowbro and mega slowbro. Starmie is a solid offensive check to lots of mons in the tier, such as Heatran, LO Breloom, Keldeo, the list goes on.
What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?Bisharp is rather annoying for Psychic types to face. Sucker Punch can take out faster mons like Latios, Latias, and Starmie, while knock off is in general annoying for any Pokemon that prefers having it's item. It also can run pursuit, creating mind games against Pokemon such as the Lati twins. Heatran is also a pain in the butt to deal with, as it resists psychic-type moves, and can use toxic, putting your mons on a timer.
What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?
Victini is actually quite underrated, it hits like a truck with CB v-create. It can also run a multitude of sets such as scarf, special, or subPUP. Special sets with glaciate are nice to catch landorus-t, a common check to it, on the switch. Mega Metagross is also a great offensive psychic-type mon. It has great coverage with meteor mash, zen headbutt, ice punch, and hammer arm / grass knot, while also being insanely bulky, with a great speed tier too. Mega Gardevoir is an absolute nuke with pixilate hyper voice, and beats mega sableye, which is really common atm.
What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?
Slowbro is really bulky, and doesn't really require too much prediction, as it has regenerator, giving it free health every time it switches out. Mega Slowbro is even bulkier, and can run a "cro" set, or a double dancer set with iron defense and calm mind, making it hard to take down. Latias mega is also quite bulky, and because it holds a mega stone, knock off doesn't do a lot of damage to it, while it can set up CM's and make use of boosts accumulated with stored power. It also has reliable recovery in roost.
What Pokemon of this type increased in viability in the transition to the ORAS meta?
Mega Metagross is really obvious, it was basically in obscurity during XY, and ORAS granted it a mega forme, with solid bulk, speed, offensive stats, and tough claws. Latias also got stored power, which was illegal before, and this is one of the main reasons, why CM Mega Latias is used. I guess Mega Gardevoir too because sableye and stall in general was kind of revived, but it also gained a new offensive check which is mega metagross, although the suspect test is still going on; if mega metagross gets banned, it'll get a lot better.
Have any Pokemon of this type benefited from access to new move tutors, abilities, or legal move combinations?
I think there's only mega latias + stored power, can't really think of anything else.
blinkie
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ dank meme crew
What are the most popular Pokemon of this type seen in OU?Hm so for bulky offense obviously Mega Gross, it overshadows the other megas such as Gallade and Medicham if anyone still uses that lol. Also Azelf is probs the best suicide lead for getting rox up against Mega Sableye. Celebi usage is going up a roller coaster cuz birdspam is dead also is really good in this meta. Gardevoir is also good Sableye killer I guess. Latias is actually getting more popular than Latios from what I've seen as people really value Healing Wish I guess. Slowbro also good on standard stuff like clef tran gliscor ferro squads lel. Starmie is also rising in usage tbh its a better spinner than Exca now in this meta >.< Rachi is also good but kind of overrated, Tini has a good stallbreaker set, Scarf is p good too.
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
AV Slowking if you're scared of GK Megagross lel. Gothitelle still trolls stall this gen as well. Mew is getting a lot less popular atm, but still a gr8 glue IMO. Cress is ok if you want a fat sponge, but why wouldn't you use Chansey anyways, too niche IMO. Zam is ok I guess lol, but takes up a Mega slot so RIP. I guess you can use something like Bronzong for the lulz and Trick Room.
What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?I guess AV Slowking fills a niche in the minds of some banhappy people;;; also basically listed everything else in the question above like Cress.
What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?Fighting-types and I guess Poison-types. Basically mons like Keldeo
What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?Dark-types and also Ghost-types although basically thats only Gengar and Sableye. Also Pursuit trappers like Sharp and TTar can checkmate them.
What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?Ever since Aegi got banned basically keep getting buffed...
What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?Gard Lati twins Gallade Tini Zam Gallade etc...
What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?(mega) Bro Celebi Mew etc....
How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?
p stronk now, tbh lots of mons high up in usage atm are Psychic like Bro(#12) Megagross obvs and Starmie(#17 or smth) Gard is 26 and Goth is 32 lol?? Also most have solid niches, usage stats are out of date and everyone spams celebi now
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
AV Slowking if you're scared of GK Megagross lel. Gothitelle still trolls stall this gen as well. Mew is getting a lot less popular atm, but still a gr8 glue IMO. Cress is ok if you want a fat sponge, but why wouldn't you use Chansey anyways, too niche IMO. Zam is ok I guess lol, but takes up a Mega slot so RIP. I guess you can use something like Bronzong for the lulz and Trick Room.
What Pokemon of this type fill a niche in OU which is sometimes worth considering in a team?I guess AV Slowking fills a niche in the minds of some banhappy people;;; also basically listed everything else in the question above like Cress.
What sorts of Pokemon does this type collectively threaten?Fighting-types and I guess Poison-types. Basically mons like Keldeo
What sorts of Pokemon threaten many of the members of this type?Dark-types and also Ghost-types although basically thats only Gengar and Sableye. Also Pursuit trappers like Sharp and TTar can checkmate them.
What sorts of metagame trends have occurred to the many Pokemon in this type?Ever since Aegi got banned basically keep getting buffed...
What Pokemon of this type are very potent offensive threats?Gard Lati twins Gallade Tini Zam Gallade etc...
What Pokemon of this type are very sturdy defensive threats?(mega) Bro Celebi Mew etc....
How strong do you feel this type is as a whole?
p stronk now, tbh lots of mons high up in usage atm are Psychic like Bro(#12) Megagross obvs and Starmie(#17 or smth) Gard is 26 and Goth is 32 lol?? Also most have solid niches, usage stats are out of date and everyone spams celebi now
What other Pokemon of this type also claim some sort of viability in OU?
Gonna talk about some less common Psychic types, since I'm a fan of RU mons :)
Reuniclus: I really like Reuniclus, tbh. It's a decent stallbreaker and a great defensive win-con, as well as a great check to stuff like Keldeo, Lopunny, and other 'mons depending on what moves it runs. If Focus Blast, heatran, ferrothorn etc. lose to reuniclus, whilst stuff like Sableye, Cresselia lose if running Shadow Ball. It's a bit like Clefable, but bulkier, with more power.
Gonna talk about some less common Psychic types, since I'm a fan of RU mons :)
Reuniclus: I really like Reuniclus, tbh. It's a decent stallbreaker and a great defensive win-con, as well as a great check to stuff like Keldeo, Lopunny, and other 'mons depending on what moves it runs. If Focus Blast, heatran, ferrothorn etc. lose to reuniclus, whilst stuff like Sableye, Cresselia lose if running Shadow Ball. It's a bit like Clefable, but bulkier, with more power.
I wouldn't really call M-Alakazam "ok" when its speed tier screws over offense, along with the the coverage and utility options it has to threaten Balance and Stall builds. Definitely better than a simple "ok". If anything is considered ok it's M-Gallade, who was and still is in my eyes one of the most overrated megas that is burdened by a poor typing, practically useless ability, and is forced to run one set to function at its best and even if you wan't to go out of the norm you'll basically have to contend with match-up problems. To think that people wanted this S ranked at one time is baffling to me. Stored Power M-Latias is complete garbage, but that was sort of a given when your entire set is based on taking out every Dark type in existence.... If there is one positive trait of M-Latias it's the fact it actually runs a solid Reflect Type set due to its bulk and longevity. Cresselia is actually a really good component of defensive cores and no Chansey is not a replacement for Cresselia lmfao. Chansey is a poor stall teams Lando check when it just loses to Knock Off while Cresselia has natural bulk on both sides of the defenses to pivot and handle much more in the tier without being passive. Also Skill Swap Cresselia should be the variants you're using, Skill Swap + Toxic is one popular set. If you're having serious Magic Guard CM Clefable issues on your defensive builds Psych Up is an option for taking boosts from Clefable and removing it with Psyshock.
Mega Slowbro is something people are criminally under prepared for and when I get shown teams to look at 9/10 times I guarantee you it's Mega Slowbro weak in some way or form. I guess more people are preparing for M-Metagross by stacking like 3 checks to it and just letting matchup decide the players fate, lol. It's made Rocky Helmet defensive cores and was one of the factors in Rocky Helmet Garchomp regaining popularity. M-Gardevoir can be annoying to Balance teams but with all the powerful megas in the tier it makes it look like it isn't that bad. People are using Victini more but I think this is just hype more so than any sort of increased effectiveness. I give it a month or two before Victini usage goes back to a norm. Latis are the same old, Mega Latios is a waste of a mega *yawn*.
NotAzelf (Mesprit) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magic Coat
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish
Not really "viable" when we talk about the tunnel vision of viability to various individuals but this has been a fun little set I've been using as a lead. Azelf does the whole lead thing better but the healing wish aspect I think is the selling point to myself. The problem with Healing Wish in OU is that it's primarily found on Psychic types which adds on dark and ghost weakness, so this is a nice little concept one can try out on offense if they don't want to pile on too many psychics from adding a psychic lead and psychic healing wish user as separate mons.
Mega Slowbro is something people are criminally under prepared for and when I get shown teams to look at 9/10 times I guarantee you it's Mega Slowbro weak in some way or form. I guess more people are preparing for M-Metagross by stacking like 3 checks to it and just letting matchup decide the players fate, lol. It's made Rocky Helmet defensive cores and was one of the factors in Rocky Helmet Garchomp regaining popularity. M-Gardevoir can be annoying to Balance teams but with all the powerful megas in the tier it makes it look like it isn't that bad. People are using Victini more but I think this is just hype more so than any sort of increased effectiveness. I give it a month or two before Victini usage goes back to a norm. Latis are the same old, Mega Latios is a waste of a mega *yawn*.
NotAzelf (Mesprit) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magic Coat
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish
Not really "viable" when we talk about the tunnel vision of viability to various individuals but this has been a fun little set I've been using as a lead. Azelf does the whole lead thing better but the healing wish aspect I think is the selling point to myself. The problem with Healing Wish in OU is that it's primarily found on Psychic types which adds on dark and ghost weakness, so this is a nice little concept one can try out on offense if they don't want to pile on too many psychics from adding a psychic lead and psychic healing wish user as separate mons.
On its own, Psychic is just a really bland typing, and the Pokemon that are viable in OU are strong DESPITE the fact that they are Psychic-types, not BECAUSE they are, as in having high stats, good typing on top of Psychic, great movepools, and amazing abilities. It only resists two types (one of which is its own), only hits two for super effective damage, and is weak two of the best and most common moves in the tier in U-Turn and Knock Off. The first post lists the term "bulky Psychic", but if memory serves, this is far more common in the lower tiers of RU and NU, which may be the case because such Pokemon are unviable in OU because their bad defensive typing lets down their high defenses. I think Psychic did suffer indirectly from the nerf to Steel-types in the transition from BW to XY, because the two types to which the Steel typing lost its resistance (Dark and Ghost) are two of the three types that Psychic is weak to, meaning that two great coverage types really hurt the viability of Psychic-types. The introduction of Aegislash hugely warped the metagame: when Fighting-type coverage become a liability because of such a powerful Pokemon, Psychic-types lost their biggest boon. It didn't help that Aegislash resisted Psychic, and its own STAB absolutely ran a train over any Psychic-types. So many Pokemon that were top-tier OU 'mons for generations dropped out of the tier, like Celebi, Starmie, and Jirachi.
Recent bans may explain the trend of the resurgence of Psychic-types. Aegislash obviously destroyed the typing, but the bans of Mega Mawile and Greninja, two Pokemon with Dark-type coverage as their primary options, helped a lot. The Fighting-type resistance means that Psychic is a welcome secondary typing; nearly every single viable Psychic-type in OU is a dual type that appreciates the added Fighting-type resistance. Fighting-types and Fighting-type coverage moves aren't that common, but they are very powerful, and the Psychic-type is one of the rare types that actually resists it. Also, Psychic-typing offers fairly good neutral coverage, only resisted by two types (one being their own). The Dark-type immunity kinda sucks, though, seeing that Dark-types are so common in ORAS OU, but it nevertheless remains a good STAB that runs off of high Special Attack (Attack in Metagross and Gallade's cases) and Psyshock's ability to let a 'mon run pseudo-mixed sweeping sets.
Which begs the question: Is Psychic-typing experiencing a revival solely based on its defensive and offensive merits, or because their mostly weak attributes can be offset? Take a look at Psychic-types in the S and A Ranks. Every single one except Starmie has very high stats paired with a strong defensive typing: Fairy, Water, Steel, and Dragon are the best defensive typings in OU. Granted, most of the Pokemon in the upper ranks have dual typings, but there's not a lot of times when I look at these Pokemon and think that the Psychic-type is the REASON why these Pokemon are strong. In fact, I'd say the reason why these 'mons AREN'T stronger is because their typing is such a letdown.
- Metagross might have gone Uber if its STABs were better (only a possible reason, I'm not saying this is THE reason).
- Gallade is incredibly strong, but it wants a better STAB to back up that meaty Close Combat.
- Lati@s are really hurt from their aspirations for S Rank because they are so susceptible to Knock Off, Pursuit and U-Turn.
- Gardevoir annihilates not with Psyshock as its main STAB, but Hyper Voice.
- Jirachi is an annoying little piece of crap with way too many moves and a good Steel-typing, but it was literally unviable in OU when Aegislash was around. Though its ban has made Jirachi much more viable, its STAB is not a primary option; it is strong because of its good stat spread and huge movepool, not because it is a Psychic-type.
- Celebi enjoys its Fighting-type resistance a lot, making it one of the best Keldeo checks (if not counters) in the tier, but that Dark-weakness and Bug-weakness leave it enormously weak to Knock Off, Pursuit, and U-turn. (Baton Pass is a thing, though.)
- Starmie is in the high ranks because it is arguably the best spinner in the tier, but if it couldn't spin, what would be its niche?
- Slowbro benefits hugely from good bulk and Regenerator; it probably benefits the most from a Fighting-type resist, and the fact that it's weak to Dark- and Bug-type attacks is offset by its huge physical bulk and the fact that it can Mega Evolve to amp up its defenses even further.
The only thing offered by the Psychic typing is the aforementioned Fighting-type resist and the good STAB neutral coverage, which are very good traits that can be ADDED to a Pokemon but not so great if these are the ONLY things good about a Pokemon. I don't deny that Psychic-types right now are great. Maybe it's just because they are strong flavor-wise that they work so well; Psychic-types just seem to be Game Freak's one of favorite beneficiaries in terms of great stats, abilities, movepools, etc. We'd think that things with psychic powers are strong, and Game Freak did deliver on that end. I just doubt it's because of their typing.
Recent bans may explain the trend of the resurgence of Psychic-types. Aegislash obviously destroyed the typing, but the bans of Mega Mawile and Greninja, two Pokemon with Dark-type coverage as their primary options, helped a lot. The Fighting-type resistance means that Psychic is a welcome secondary typing; nearly every single viable Psychic-type in OU is a dual type that appreciates the added Fighting-type resistance. Fighting-types and Fighting-type coverage moves aren't that common, but they are very powerful, and the Psychic-type is one of the rare types that actually resists it. Also, Psychic-typing offers fairly good neutral coverage, only resisted by two types (one being their own). The Dark-type immunity kinda sucks, though, seeing that Dark-types are so common in ORAS OU, but it nevertheless remains a good STAB that runs off of high Special Attack (Attack in Metagross and Gallade's cases) and Psyshock's ability to let a 'mon run pseudo-mixed sweeping sets.
Which begs the question: Is Psychic-typing experiencing a revival solely based on its defensive and offensive merits, or because their mostly weak attributes can be offset? Take a look at Psychic-types in the S and A Ranks. Every single one except Starmie has very high stats paired with a strong defensive typing: Fairy, Water, Steel, and Dragon are the best defensive typings in OU. Granted, most of the Pokemon in the upper ranks have dual typings, but there's not a lot of times when I look at these Pokemon and think that the Psychic-type is the REASON why these Pokemon are strong. In fact, I'd say the reason why these 'mons AREN'T stronger is because their typing is such a letdown.
- Metagross might have gone Uber if its STABs were better (only a possible reason, I'm not saying this is THE reason).
- Gallade is incredibly strong, but it wants a better STAB to back up that meaty Close Combat.
- Lati@s are really hurt from their aspirations for S Rank because they are so susceptible to Knock Off, Pursuit and U-Turn.
- Gardevoir annihilates not with Psyshock as its main STAB, but Hyper Voice.
- Jirachi is an annoying little piece of crap with way too many moves and a good Steel-typing, but it was literally unviable in OU when Aegislash was around. Though its ban has made Jirachi much more viable, its STAB is not a primary option; it is strong because of its good stat spread and huge movepool, not because it is a Psychic-type.
- Celebi enjoys its Fighting-type resistance a lot, making it one of the best Keldeo checks (if not counters) in the tier, but that Dark-weakness and Bug-weakness leave it enormously weak to Knock Off, Pursuit, and U-turn. (Baton Pass is a thing, though.)
- Starmie is in the high ranks because it is arguably the best spinner in the tier, but if it couldn't spin, what would be its niche?
- Slowbro benefits hugely from good bulk and Regenerator; it probably benefits the most from a Fighting-type resist, and the fact that it's weak to Dark- and Bug-type attacks is offset by its huge physical bulk and the fact that it can Mega Evolve to amp up its defenses even further.
The only thing offered by the Psychic typing is the aforementioned Fighting-type resist and the good STAB neutral coverage, which are very good traits that can be ADDED to a Pokemon but not so great if these are the ONLY things good about a Pokemon. I don't deny that Psychic-types right now are great. Maybe it's just because they are strong flavor-wise that they work so well; Psychic-types just seem to be Game Freak's one of favorite beneficiaries in terms of great stats, abilities, movepools, etc. We'd think that things with psychic powers are strong, and Game Freak did deliver on that end. I just doubt it's because of their typing.
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Alright so I'll talk about Mega Alakazam a bit since everybody forgets it even exists. I made a team around it just yesterday and it has been working surprisingly well. Every battle I won was because Mega Zam cleaned up at the end (although this could be because of good teambuilding and/or playing but w/e) and every battle I lost....well I lost (mostly cause of hax :S). People often find it unappealing because of it's terrible defenses and while they are right I find it hard to believe you can find just dismiss it, especially with that 175 base SpA, 150 base Speed, and a beautiful mustache that makes even Jellicent jealous. Iirc it has the highest SpA and speed in the meta. Aside from stats, it has enough viable moves to work with in tandem with its stats that can screw over usual threats to offense (the playstyle it is mostly seen on), think Mega Lopunny/Manectric, rain and sand offense. I've been running a set of Psyshock/Dazzling Gleam/Energy Ball/HP Fire. Energy Ball is to revenge swift swimmers like Mega Swampert/Omastar/Kingdra because of Trace and HP Fire is for sand rush Excadrill. Dazzling Gleam is there pretty much solely to not have an utter garbage match-up vs Mega Sableye, so doesn't necessarily help Zam beat otherwise problematic things. It also has Encore to mess up stall which is cool.
Now for other Psychic types, Starmie and Celebi have rose both in usage and viability recently, and they deserve it. Starmie got better with Greninja's ban (actually both did) and is now considered the best offensive spinner in the tier. Imo it's better than Excadrill as a spinner because it's not outsped and shat on by Gengar and can also threaten Mega Sableye with the LO set. Celebi rose because idk it's just a good mon and checks a lot of stuff like Keldeo, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and more while also having a ton of viable support moves and sets. Latis are same old, same old, but I have seen more Latias and Latios I run into seem to have Earthquake. (Mega) Slowbro and Mew are still annoying af (as an offense player) to take down so that definitely means they're good walls in my book.
Now for other Psychic types, Starmie and Celebi have rose both in usage and viability recently, and they deserve it. Starmie got better with Greninja's ban (actually both did) and is now considered the best offensive spinner in the tier. Imo it's better than Excadrill as a spinner because it's not outsped and shat on by Gengar and can also threaten Mega Sableye with the LO set. Celebi rose because idk it's just a good mon and checks a lot of stuff like Keldeo, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and more while also having a ton of viable support moves and sets. Latis are same old, same old, but I have seen more Latias and Latios I run into seem to have Earthquake. (Mega) Slowbro and Mew are still annoying af (as an offense player) to take down so that definitely means they're good walls in my book.
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