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OU Analyses Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
How exactly would that work against anything that isn't stall? I just briefly checked and didn't see any priority that Pangoro knows unless I missed something.
It's supposed to be a wallbreaker, so being bad against offense is not an insurmountable flaw. Also, an unwallable Dark-type that beats CM Stored Power Mega Latias is nice.
Yeah I know that but it's already a p niche pokemon so I wouldn't want to give it a partially matchup reliant set.
i haven't tested it that extensively but i wasn't that impressed by sd pangoro when i tried it. it kinda relies on finding matchups against slower styles and can be rather lackluster against offense compared to cb, which has the greater immediate power needed to function with high effectiveness against offense. it's still rlly hard to wall so meh :\ i just didn't like how fast it got worn down, how i couldn't have another coverage slot, and how there was a noticeable power difference from cb.
So far testing Mega Steelix is going very well. I'm still makin my way up the ladder because ever since the ladder reset upon ORAS' release I only played on the OU ladder using a total joke team with 5 trappers and 1 MEvo hahaha. Before last night I had played in multiple mini tournaments hosted in the OU chat room but that's it, though I digress. The most effective way I've used Mega Steelix is basically hit shit hella hard with sand up and whenever sand is not up you can use it as a fantastic bulky pivot to take a hit easily, scare the enemy out, and predict what they will switch into and pull a double into the appropriate 'mon, unless Mega Steelix is capable of smashing the enemy's switch-in without sand necessary which I've found to not even be a very uncommon occurence since Mega Steelix's most reliable STABs, Heavy Slam and EQ, have very high power and p good coverage too. The only time Mega Steelix fails at doing anything offensively, keep in mind that its offensive prowess as compared to Mega Aggron is what makes it viable at least in my opinion, is when the opponent has one of the select Mega Steelix hard counters such as Rotom-W and Skarmory. Switching into said Pokémon, however, is extremely obvious on the opponent's part so such situations can be exploited by you. Although guessing games created by the need to switch into one "obvious" Pokémon are technically in neither player's favor and thus it can work for you or against you, you must keep one thing in mind which is that he is at a greater risk than you because, prior to the turn in which he may or may not switch into Skarmory or an other such Pokémon on you, you are the one with the initiative and you risk merely losing initiative if he wins the mind game whereas he risks potentially losing a Pokémon altogther if you both keep your Pokémon in battle and Mega Steelix beats his 'mon to a pulp. Anyways as I was saying earlier, when sand isn't up just use Mega Steelix as a worse Mega Aggron(keep in mind that it can perform Mega Aggron's role as a tank extremely well, just not as well) and when sand is active then use it as a tank and hard ass fucking hitter.
People are always comparing Mega Steelix to Mega Aggron, but that's not the only Pokémon to which it should be compared because of Mega Steelix's characteristics and what team archetype it is to be used in order to be used to its fullest extent. Consider it as a Mega Aggron-Excadrill hybrid. Mega Aggron defensively outclasses Mega Steelix in every way except for Mega Steelix being capable to take neutral and resisted special hits better and being a check to Volt Switch spam. In return, Mega Steelix completely outclasses Mega Aggron in offensive prowess. Excadrill, on the other hand, outclasses Mega Steelix in every way offensively except that Mega Steelix has potentially substantially higher powered Steel-type STABs. Duly note that Mega Steelix's Steel-type STABs are an offensive advantage as Heavy Slam combined with Mega Steelix's bulk allows it to let even Defensive Landorus-T not be safe switching-in because it'll be 3HKO'd by Heavy Slam and EQ will fail to 2HKO Mega Steelix. Heavy Slam also OHKOs the Lati@s' base formes which Excadrill's LO Iron Head fails to do. Think of how hard LO Excadrill's Iron Head hits, now imagine giving it a second Life Orb and taking no Life Orb recoil from either of them. That is Mega Steelix's offensive prowess in the sand.
I have also made good progress in determining what is and isn't viable on Mega Steelix. Max HP max Atk RestTalk or max HP max SpD RestTalk are honestly the only sets worth using. There's virtually no reason in using a 3 attacks+Stealth Rocks set because then you might as well use Mega Aggron because Mega Steelix will just die mid-game due to the lack of recovery and then you will either hardly or not at all be able to take advantage of what is the entire reason to use Mega Steelix over Mega Aggron which is its capability to hit hard as fuck and Mega Aggron would set SR more reliably anyways, not only that but if you're using Mega Steelix you should be using a Defensive Tyranitar or Hippowdon with Smooth Rock and you could just have Stealth Rocks on them instead of on your Mega Evolution. Another thing I have to add is Heavy Slam is 75% of the time > Gyro ball despite the higher potential damage output because running minimum speed for Gyro Ball will not allow you to outspeed and 2HKO a weakened Mega Sableye because with minimum speed you will get outsped by Mega Sableye of all things and end up gettin' burned before you can finish it off and then it can Recover in your face. I even ran into one scenario where I managed to severaly weaken a Mega Slowbro trying to set up on my and had I not been running minimum speed then it would have been a speed tie and I might've potentially knocked it out with EQ, so now I actually run 4 speed evs to speed creep Mega Slowbro if there's ever that rare circumstance appearing again. I might as well try and speed creep Mega Slowbro anyways too because putting 4 evs anywhere else is completely arbitrary whereas those seemingly arbitrary 4 Speed evs actually help in at least one situation haha. Lastly, as I displayed in calcs earlier in this thread, Gyro Ball fails to achieve sufficient Base Power against Defensive Landorus-T to 3HKO and thus Defensive Landorus-T is a counter to Mega Steelix w/ Gyro Ball. The only real benefit of Gyro Ball over Heavy Slam is having a chance to OHKO Scarfed Landorus-T after SR damage, but that's only a chance to OHKO so I'd much rather use Heavy Slam to beat both Landorus-T sets. Higher Base Power against fast, offensive teams is not really worth it when Heavy Slam in the sand will OHKO(oftentimes sand isn't needed either) any offensive 'mon that doesn't resist it anyways.
Sorry for the huge essay haha, TL;DR: Mega Steelix is proving its worth easily and needs an analysis, but if you still don't believe me then replays are coming soon.
People are always comparing Mega Steelix to Mega Aggron, but that's not the only Pokémon to which it should be compared because of Mega Steelix's characteristics and what team archetype it is to be used in order to be used to its fullest extent. Consider it as a Mega Aggron-Excadrill hybrid. Mega Aggron defensively outclasses Mega Steelix in every way except for Mega Steelix being capable to take neutral and resisted special hits better and being a check to Volt Switch spam. In return, Mega Steelix completely outclasses Mega Aggron in offensive prowess. Excadrill, on the other hand, outclasses Mega Steelix in every way offensively except that Mega Steelix has potentially substantially higher powered Steel-type STABs. Duly note that Mega Steelix's Steel-type STABs are an offensive advantage as Heavy Slam combined with Mega Steelix's bulk allows it to let even Defensive Landorus-T not be safe switching-in because it'll be 3HKO'd by Heavy Slam and EQ will fail to 2HKO Mega Steelix. Heavy Slam also OHKOs the Lati@s' base formes which Excadrill's LO Iron Head fails to do. Think of how hard LO Excadrill's Iron Head hits, now imagine giving it a second Life Orb and taking no Life Orb recoil from either of them. That is Mega Steelix's offensive prowess in the sand.
I have also made good progress in determining what is and isn't viable on Mega Steelix. Max HP max Atk RestTalk or max HP max SpD RestTalk are honestly the only sets worth using. There's virtually no reason in using a 3 attacks+Stealth Rocks set because then you might as well use Mega Aggron because Mega Steelix will just die mid-game due to the lack of recovery and then you will either hardly or not at all be able to take advantage of what is the entire reason to use Mega Steelix over Mega Aggron which is its capability to hit hard as fuck and Mega Aggron would set SR more reliably anyways, not only that but if you're using Mega Steelix you should be using a Defensive Tyranitar or Hippowdon with Smooth Rock and you could just have Stealth Rocks on them instead of on your Mega Evolution. Another thing I have to add is Heavy Slam is 75% of the time > Gyro ball despite the higher potential damage output because running minimum speed for Gyro Ball will not allow you to outspeed and 2HKO a weakened Mega Sableye because with minimum speed you will get outsped by Mega Sableye of all things and end up gettin' burned before you can finish it off and then it can Recover in your face. I even ran into one scenario where I managed to severaly weaken a Mega Slowbro trying to set up on my and had I not been running minimum speed then it would have been a speed tie and I might've potentially knocked it out with EQ, so now I actually run 4 speed evs to speed creep Mega Slowbro if there's ever that rare circumstance appearing again. I might as well try and speed creep Mega Slowbro anyways too because putting 4 evs anywhere else is completely arbitrary whereas those seemingly arbitrary 4 Speed evs actually help in at least one situation haha. Lastly, as I displayed in calcs earlier in this thread, Gyro Ball fails to achieve sufficient Base Power against Defensive Landorus-T to 3HKO and thus Defensive Landorus-T is a counter to Mega Steelix w/ Gyro Ball. The only real benefit of Gyro Ball over Heavy Slam is having a chance to OHKO Scarfed Landorus-T after SR damage, but that's only a chance to OHKO so I'd much rather use Heavy Slam to beat both Landorus-T sets. Higher Base Power against fast, offensive teams is not really worth it when Heavy Slam in the sand will OHKO(oftentimes sand isn't needed either) any offensive 'mon that doesn't resist it anyways.
Sorry for the huge essay haha, TL;DR: Mega Steelix is proving its worth easily and needs an analysis, but if you still don't believe me then replays are coming soon.
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I just got an Eon Ticket in game, which took me to southern island and allowed me to obtain Latias. However, after catching her, Latias dropped a Soul Dew. Now that I know Soul Dew is back in ΩRAS, am I allowed to use it and/or will the analysis for the Eon Duo be updated?
Edit: Darn, and I though I would revolutionize the meta :(
Edit: Darn, and I though I would revolutionize the meta :(
Soul Dew is banned from OU and is only legal in Ubers, hence why Lati@s is so good there now.
It's banned to Ubers
I've been beginning to question Haxorus's OU dragon dance set. Let's face it, when was the last time you considered using haxorus as a dragon dance user. It's only been made worse with the arrival of another dragon dance user, mega altaria, as well as some new physical walls such as mega slowbro and and mega sableye. Sure Haxours's incredible base 147 attack is very impressive, it does have mold breaker earthquake and poison jab at it's disposal, and it doesn't take up a mega slot, but I don't think it warrants a spot as a dragon dance user over mega altaria, zard x, mega tyranitar, and mega gyarados. I can't really say much about the stallbreaker set as I havent used it myself, but Haxorus as a dragon dance sweeper just seems to be outclassed.
Lum Berry DD is honestly really hard to deal with in this metagame. The declined usage in Clefable and Sylveon while also being able to just steamroll past stall teams with minimal support, because Taunt means Skarmory can no longer use Whirlwind or Counter allowing you to boost and blindly 2HKO it. Sableye can't burn you and Thundurus-I can't paralyze and considering you won't see both on the same team because the playstyles they fit in are polar opposites. Mold Breaker is amazing for Unaware Clefable, Levitate Rotom-W (lol but Outrage is risk a times), Multiscale Dragonite, and Taunting Mega Sableye on the switch. I would say it got better with the transition to ORAS. I have had experience with it - definitely a powerful threat.
Pretty sure Taunt doesn't stop Counter.
I'm not entirely sure why it's not included anywhere on the analysis, but Focus Blast needs at LEAST a mention in the set details on the CM Life Orb set for Clefable. Focus Blast hits pretty much everything that Flamethrower hits minus a few things such as OHKOing Scizor and Ferrothorn, while still hitting the latter extremely hard, but it has the added advantage of being able to actually do damage to Heatran. A +1 LO Focus Blast is an easy 2HKO on SpD Tran, and even if it decides to just Roar you out, it's going to be taking an ass load of damage in the process. It also does something like 74% min to Chansey at +6, which is an easy 2HKO and if you don't get unlucky with the misses it can't even stall you out.
I personally think it deserves a slash after Flamethrower seeing as how common Heatran is at the moment and how it's basically seen as a universal counter to it, I think it's a very viable option and fits well on teams that are weaker to Heatran stall and want a reliable way to deal with it. But a mention at the very least would be fine.
I personally think it deserves a slash after Flamethrower seeing as how common Heatran is at the moment and how it's basically seen as a universal counter to it, I think it's a very viable option and fits well on teams that are weaker to Heatran stall and want a reliable way to deal with it. But a mention at the very least would be fine.
Definitely agreeing with this. I think that it was overlooked as a coverage move back in the aegislash era, as flamethrower was almost necessary to hit said pokemon. Clef can easily beat chansey with +6 Moonblasts or Stored Powers, but Focus Blast would certainly get it done faster.
No, but once you Taunt Skarmory, you can set up all over it and KO it at +6 if it has taken at least 21% prior damage.
Also works well with SD Talonflame :o
Jukain I think a Dragonite revamp may be necessary. At the moment, Dragon Dance is a mediocre set due to the huge amount of competition it faces from Mega Altaria and Charizard, and Bulky Roost is really hard to use with the huge power creep going on. Even Choice Band is getting hard to use due to the lack of spammable moves on it. I personally think that Choice Band and maybe Dragon Dance should be the only sets on the analysis, although I'm open to any counter arguments.
Real quick I've just found out that the unova starters are finally getting their dream world abilities. So I think serperior a has a lot of merit in the OU tier. We've dismissed other contrary users in the past such as malamar because of their poor stats and speed. Although serperior's special attack is mediocre without a boost, it has a very good speed stat of 113 as we'll as some mild bulk to mitigate that. I know that they're not "technically" released, but we are getting confirmation on it's dream world ability getting released, so I think we can at least discuss this
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Alright, so I'm questioning as to why regular Latias even needs a revamp. Really, not much has changed for it in ORAS from my knowledge and hearing from others. Yeah, there is the fact that clefable is not longer a great team option to handle Greninja, for obvious reasons and some new megas like mega altaria, metagross, gyarados, have become more threatening to it, but I don't understand why that warrants a full revamp, so I'd appreciate if someone could explain to me.
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Pretty sure it has already been discussed, samurott's ability is horrible, and emboar is not getting an analysis, while serperior is. Choice scarf Serp is also a good check to greninja.
Latias needs a revamp due to relevant shifts/new threats in the metagame that affect it in ORAS.