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OU Stats — January 2013

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Harsha, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    As stated by others, these are montly stats. If something is banned halfway through the month, it'll still show up in battles for the first two weeks, back when it was legal. This has NOTHING to do with PS.
  2. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
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    Ape honestly isn't that bad, it's just that the metagame is unkind to him. The metagame is mostly rain, and Ape is for the most part, a liability against the said playstyle, because both Hurricane and Hydro Pump alike destroy him. Not only that, but rain also weakens Ape's Fire STAB considerably. His mixed attacking stats simply don't cut it in this meta, and this meta is mostly "use a high attack stat and beat the living shit out of 'em". Infernape also has a sad case of being outclassed. As an offensive Fighting-type, Terrakion and Keldeo are both better, with Keldeo taking advantage of the dominant playstyle here, and Terrakion being a far more lethal user of SD. As a sun abuser, there's Venusaur, as well as Vicky and Darma for the most of it. Really, Ape isn't "oh shit, it's utterly horrible and sucks at everything it does", but the rain meta really brings it down, and the fact that it's outclassed both as a Fighting-type and as a sun abuser doesn't help either.
  3. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

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    Just for ur info, Infernape is decent. Good chance to OHKO standard Politoed with Life Orb Iron Fist Thunder Punch, 2HKos terrakion with Iron Fist Life Orb Mach Pawnch, and has Close Combat for a powerful STAB. Mixed offenses are great. Though I rather see Ape in UU, he will manage in BW OU
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan

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    These are really cool thanks - what I'd love to see is the same charts for like the top 250-300 Pokemon. Just to see if there are any other random NU Pokemon being used to success near the top of the ladder. I've been using Parasect to great success near the very top of the ladder and am wondering what else is viable. Even just the Excel output would be super helpful if making the chart took too long :)
  5. Swagodile

    Swagodile

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    This. Infernape's not a bad Pokemon, but if you use him in this meta, you'll wish you were using Terrakion or Keldeo, which are just as fast, stronger, and aren't hindered by rain, and benefit from it in Keldeo's case.
  6. Shayhok

    Shayhok

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    Sure. Here are the weight-sorted charts, but now sampling from all Pokemon in the stats:

    Overall - http://i.imgur.com/Roheu0X.png
    1337 - http://i.imgur.com/ZTfhQOh.png

    Moltres, Rotom-C, Shaymin, Cobalion, and Crustle are the first 5 >#100 in usage now showing in the 1337 stats.
    As for Parasect, it is #112 in the 1337 stats. Ahead of quite a few OU, such as Jolteon, Infernape, and Blissey.
  7. HabibsHotDogs

    HabibsHotDogs

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    You can only consider weighted stats with a grain of salt as it simply means its been more likely used by higher levelled players as opposed to lower players (a ratio). It doesn't necessarily mean people are having "better" success with them or that they are more "threatening" in OU. Look at Politoed, easily one of the most threatening pokemon in OU and T-T can not have such a heavy weighting without Politoed on their teams and yet it is not heavily weighted as it would be rather common for the whole variety of "tiers of skill" to be using rain.

    Newer battlers and less experienced players probably don't look far outside of the OU recommended pokemon on the teambuilder.. postulating a reason why we see Amoonguss and Stoutland at the top of the weighted stats. You also have heavily weighted non-viable pokemon like Solosis.. which would obviously be due to [a] good player(s) incorporating it onto teams.

    Then there is also other reasons why pokemon can be so heavily weighted. In mid-tier or low-tier battles you can probably easily get away with not having a dedicated Keldeo counter because most people will just sheep it out and use scarf Keldeo if they use her at all in these tiers... Meanwhile with higher level play you absolutely need a hard counter to the most popular sweepers. This explains why Slowbro used to be top 10 in previous 1337 stats whilst it was a solid UU otherwise (Terrakion was at its peak) and also explains why Jirachi and Rotom-W together make appearances on approximately 1 in every 2 teams during January (and I am willing to argue more before the recent ban as T-T was exiled rather early in January).

    This also suggests why we see Amoonguss so high up as it currently is the "hardest" rain threat counter, being capable of switching in on everything Politoed has as well as common rain threats (Keldeo, Jolteon, Thundurus-T, bulky waters).

    Otherwise excellent pokemon such as Gengar have been relegated to average weightings of below 0.5 because they are so popular with newer players...
  8. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    @HabibsHotDogs -- What the weightings reported in the moveset stats mostly tells you is the percentage of time that Pokemon is used by a non-n00b, non-troll player. So you're right--lower score does not mean inferior Pokemon. All it means is that the Pokemon is less popular among newbish players.

    Specifically, weighting does not tell you whether a Pokemon is overrated/underrated, because newbies [edit: to be more precise, bad teams used by bad players] no longer contribute to the stats in any meaningful way.
  9. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    You do realize that plenty of bad players can easily climb the ladders by spamming the most "idiotproof" pokemon in the tier, right?
    That's exactly what happened with things like Genesect and that's why it was banned.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the weight system is a good idea, but expect it to be discredited (just like raw usage) by people once they realize that it's not as objective as it sounds on paper.
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    Scizors usage also startles me.
  11. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    I think we're all in the same train here, nothing against Scizor of course, but he's no Genesect. Is he supposed to be checking those Dragonites that many other things can check? Or is it the Terrakions? That kind of usage would make you think Scizor is the main offensive threat in the meta.
  12. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    The point of our usage system (and thus this weighting system) is to accurately gauge threats. If a Pokemon is so good that even an "idiot" can win using that Pokemon, then the Pokemon deserves to be considered a threat, even if it's exclusively used by idiots. As I said in an earlier post, "average weight" is NOT an indicator of how good a Pokemon is.

    The only teams that shouldn't be counted are the ones that have no realistic shot at winning against an average player, either because the team is garbage, or because the player is a completely hopeless idiot.


    So I don't understand your issue.

    [Edit: I edited the post you quoted for clarity, but it should have been clear already that I was using "newbie" as shorthand for bad team, bad player.]
  13. BettaOffDead

    BettaOffDead

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    I think scizor gets used a lot because he's good in a lot of situations and can fit well on a lot of teams thanks to its valuable steel typing and priority. It's just not like Terrakion/Tornadus-T that just rapes everything.
  14. TooMuchSugar

    TooMuchSugar

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    Okay, so all I want to know is this: why on earth is Solosis number one on that chart?!?!?!?
    EDIT: Also, it makes me happy to see Darmanitan and Mienshao so high.
  15. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    ALL that means is that hardly any bad/inexperienced players think of using Solisis.

    Since a decent player is weighted about the same as a good player as a great player it DOESN'T say that "only good players use Solosis." In fact, the fact that Solosis doesn't appear on the 1850 chart says that you can't actually ladder too high using Solosis.
  16. Jonathan

    Jonathan

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    Thanks for these! And thanks Antar and HabbisHotDogs for the added insight into this matter.
  17. /B/utterfree

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    Okay. This seems solid. It also adequately explains Reuniclus' plummeting usage as a result of its counters/checks being used more than Trick Room teams, or at least that's one of many interpretations I see among the weighting systems.

    How do we tell if the player is a "completely hopeless idiot," though? I still have difficulty gauging how intelligent my opponents are because a lot of them tend to use similar 'mons, or restrict themselves to monotype teams for the sake of challenge/fun.
  18. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    You can read all about that in this thread. In short, players are weighted using their rating to determine the probability that they are better than the "average player," which I mathematically define in that thread.
  19. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    This is sort of a nubly question, but could someone explain the difference between the Usage %, Raw %, and Real %?

    Thanks.
  20. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Usage is weighted, Raw is unweighted, Real only counts pokemon that actually appear in battle.
  21. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    is the lead usage weighted?
  22. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Yes. As is the metagame data and the moveset info.
  23. spooky96

    spooky96

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    Wow really shocked by Jirachi's 4th spot and Gengar's such low rank.
  24. SmashBrosBrawl

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    It saddens me to see infernape, gastrodon and dugtrio still in OU. These things have like one niche each and they dont even perform them well. (Infernape has to deal with things like Jellicent now, gastrodon is crushed by keldeo and ferrothron meaning it doesnt check rain as good as people think, dugtrio is owned by air baloon and cant ohko anything not named heatran). Hope they drop someday as uu would be a much more suitable place for them.
  25. Mr cookies

    Mr cookies

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    Dugtrio is a very good pokemon if you ask me... What really surprises me is seeing starmie and gengar so high, they are OHKOed by so many common threats, and they arent that powerful either. I guess that if deo-d goes to ubers they'll drop quite a bit.
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