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OU Suspect Testing Round 5 Voter Identification and Suspect Nominations

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Sep 19, 2011.

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  1. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 21, 2007
    After some massive delays, we're finally done with this damn round! Time to close this bad boy up with a nice vote. Here are all the qualified accounts:

    Midnight Ranking Screenshot (open)

    I'm also accepting special applications from those who missed the cutoff but still believe they deserve to vote. Please PM these to myself and Bloo. I don't expect to accept many of these at all, but I'm sure there are some legitimate extenuating circumstances in a few cases.

    Guidelines for nominating:

    1. We are allowing people to nominate abilities for a ban vote. If you nominate an ability, keep in mind that it will be banned on all Pokemon who get it. If a Pokemon only has one ability and that ability gets banned, said Pokemon will also effectively be banned (at least, until its secondary ability is released in Dream World).
    2. You may not nominate an ability + Pokemon combo, OR an item + Pokemon combo.
    3. You are not required to cater your nomination to any of the three 4th gen characteristics of an Uber/BL. All we are looking for in these nominations are sound logic and nomination popularity.
    4. There is no minimum length per nomination; if you get your thoughts across, and you show good reasoning, that's all we need to see.
    5. Remember that you may also nominate current Uber Pokemon to bring down into OU for testing. If these Pokemon get voted down, they will automatically be suspect to a vote after the next round to determine if they should stay OU or not.
    6. All suspects that passed a simple majority but not a super majority last round are automatically suspects this round. You do not need to nominate them again.
    This is not a debate thread. I do not want to see a single post that does not contain an identification and/or a suspect nomination.

    This stage will last approximately 5 days, ending September 23th at 11:59 pm EST. Happy nominating!
  2. wilson46

    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 22, 2010
    The big #2.

  3. babidi1998

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Mar 27, 2009
  4. yee

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Jan 3, 2010
    Dead Kennedy

    Excadrill- The main points have been covered. I have a serious beef with this when I play stall. With SR, sand damage, and Rotom-w giving it free switch-ins, its even more difficult to deal with. Make standard sand less of a headache and make Scarf users and other Rapid Spinners less outclassed.
  5. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Jan 2, 2010
    Confirming as Mr. L5

    Excadrill: Outspeeds every Choice Scarfer (barring deoxys-e), too strong, fantastic offensive/defensive typing, learns Rapid Spin, and can break past almost every spinblocker out there. There is almost no reason not to use it on a sand team, and it is capable of revenging practically the entire meta if sand is up. The fact that it has "counters" is irrelevant; I can name several instances where I have sacked my entire team in order to eliminate my opponent's only counter, and was then able to proceed to sweep his team. On top of this, its only real counters are Gliscor and Bronzong since I can't count on 6 hands how many times it has flinch-haxed Skarmory to death. Excadrill is just a stupidly overpowered Poke that's over-centralizing and unhealthy for the game.

    Also, ban Thundurus!
  6. Alice

    Alice The worst taste in music

    Jun 23, 2007

    Excadrill: This round LO excadrill was a lot more common than before... and showed how ******* strong it really is. Everytime it comes into play, something not named Skarm or Gliscor is gonna die...; sure, you can bring your "check" (such as durr or azu), AFTER he killed something (or else you're risking being hit with EQ, which just plains OHKO with hazards support, or at least severly limits their lifespan -and thus, crippling their checking abilities-), but he'll just switch to something like jellicent, and later in the game "rinse and repeat". Add all the other stuff snunch and other people said, so yeah, it's time to say goodbye -.-

    BP + magic bounce: what everyone else said -.-
  7. Snunch

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 8th Official Smogon Tournament

    Jun 23, 2010
    Nominating Excadrill

    Nominating Drizzle and Drought because a weather metagame is just dumb. Both weather effects power up a plethora of pokemon to the point where the metagame revolves around weather and the overpowered spammers that are boosted by weather. Banning weather seems like it should be common sense for anyone who has actually played this metagame, idk why it has taken so long to ban it.

    Retest Brightpowder and Lax Incense. These items are objectively worse than leftovers in many cases, and from talking on irc a lot of people who originally voted ban would take back their vote if they could.
  8. KnightoftheWind

    is a Past WCoP Champion

    Feb 6, 2009

    I heard that nigga BKC stole it though, so that may cause problems on my end. I know someone who can confirm that this is my alt though.


    Excadrill: I've come to the conclusion that Excadrill's presence is not healthy for the metagame. Sure, there's stuff that can beat it, but the fact is that Excadrill is such a huge threat that it completely destroys creative team archetypes, as you NEED to have an answer for it or your team is not going to be very successful. Basically, what Snunch has already said, banning Excadrill would allow for a more diverse and fun metagame.

    Drizzle: Automatic rain courtesy of Drizzle Politoed powers up so many Pokemon that it isn't amusing. It makes offensive Water-types and Electric-types incredibly deadly, due to the sheer power of Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and the accuracy boost for Thunder. (Hurricane users also receive a benefit, although they are less noteworthy than the Water- and Electric-types) On top of that, Steel-types receive a nice increased resistance to Fire, meaning they can become much harder to take down.
  9. Aqualouis

    Aqualouis ^ Sport de raquette + Service pas rattrapé
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 28, 2010
    Im aegir #87
  10. .CarloO~


    Mar 13, 2010
    Im Carloo #61

    Nominating Deoxys-S and Dragonite.

    Deoxys-S is one of the pokemon's than are so unpredictable on this metagame, it can setup hazards so easy, thanks that his higest speed, it have a big movepool as psycho boost, thunderbolt, hp fire, superpower, ib, extremspeed, that make it a big offensive core in anyone team, no just it, it have the dual screen set, one of the betters on this metagame, thanks to his speed, and defensive stats, it is so helpful for the smash pass teams.

    Dragonite later
  11. Freze


    Sep 20, 2009
    Confirming as:

    #43 Frezealt

    Nominating LUCARIO.

    Lucario has to my knowledge not a single counter that would be competively viable otherwise (or any for that matter). You bring in Skarmory Nasty Plot Aura Sphere to the face. You bring in Blissey Close Combat to the face. Lucario is too versatile and imo should be atleast voted on. It has the great Fighting Dark coverage, can run mix fighting stabs, can take down Gliscor with HP ice due to air balloon. Just too versatile. Though I might be missing something huge. Sure it has checks, but I don't think anything can safely switch into it and it is also a great sweeper. With mix priority is also great.

    Baton Pass

    Baton pass was meh in gen 4, but in gen 5 it got a huge boost. Magic Mirror Espeon pretty much allows BP chains not to get phazed out or taunted. Also Stored Power gave BP a huge boost because now you can run a Stored Power sweeper on your team and OHKO everything in the game assuming you have enough boosts. With those added there are only a few things that can break through BP. Too strong. While not as prominent Smash and Passing is also quite good with screens and all. Pure Baton pass teams can allow a worse player to beat a great player even without hax if they don't have any of the few counters to it.


    This thing is bulky liek hell and hits like a truck. The CM set rips through stall pretty much (well not alone but it does a huge number) and the Trick Room sets destroys offense/hyper offense. A psychic type with those traits that can live a CB Crunch from Tyranitar is crazy. This thing should definately be voted on. Not sure if it is broken though.
  12. Cometk


    Apr 26, 2011
    why leave the world duller, i'm serenade of color

    nomming excadrill just so we can say it's been nommed five rounds and never banned
  13. WildfireXIII


    Jun 3, 2011
    I'm wildfirexiii, #78. Also still wondering why #40 and #41 are the same person.

    noms will come later.

    They are:


    more might come later.
  14. symphonyx64

    symphonyx64 Private messages are the best way to reach me
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Sep 20, 2008
    Confirming as symphonyx64.
  15. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let all these plants survive??
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005
    Updated the OP with a few bullets from the previous tests that Jabba missed.

    Also some of you may have noticed that #40 and #41 is the same user. I apologize for that, and someone may be missing from the list.

    And finally, I've chosen to sit this suspect round out, so good luck and major thanks to Bloo and Jabba for carrying this all out :D
  16. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 22, 2008
    i am SJCrew, how do you do

    Volcarona: I know what you're thinking: Stealth Rock. This would be a pretty good argument too if Volcarona weren't capable of coming in and setting up on most of the Pokemon that used it. Not even Standard Tyranitar can stop it from setting up if it's running enough bulk. Bulky Water types? Forget about it. One or two Bug Buzzes will put away any Politoed or Vaporeon, and Jellicent or Tentacruel without Toxic just invite more setup. Too many times have I brought in Blissey to discover it's Chesto Rest and is now ready to sweep my team. A +1 Sunny Fire Blast can drop both Dragonite and Gyarados, otherwise good checks to Volcarona, even if it's running HP Ground for Heatran and Terrakion and not HP Rock. I won't argue that Scarf Terrakion and Landorus aren't fine answers to Volcarona, but rather it's unreasonably difficult to stop without them.

    Drizzle: With Politoed around, Ferrothorn and Tyranitar are going to fight for the top spot in OU pretty much forever. Most of our battles will be Drizzle team variant XYZ, standard Sand, and the odd Drought team fighting to prove it's still relevant. Maybe a Baton Pass team every once in a while just to break the mold. This is a bad metagame. We already know about the boosted Surfs and Thunders - that's why Gastrodon is suddenly OU, even though it's really not a good tank at all. Before you dispute this, it's a special tank that doesn't counter Latios, Latias, Tornadus, or even Thundurus for that matter. Not Hydreigon or Volcarona either. Anything that runs mixed will cut right through him and his mediocre defense. What the hell is it doing in OU? Rotom-W and Politoed. Rotom-W is not a big enough incentive to waste a teamslot, but when Politoed brings the Rain and threatens to run train, we may as well bring back Celebi too (formerly over 10 places too low to hack it in OU).

    Suppose Thundurus is banned this round. We've conquered one evil, but we're not out of the woods yet. Instead of the usual Politoed, Ferrothorn, Thundurus, and three fillers, we're dealing with now, Politoed, Ferrothorn, Tornadus and three fillers become the new standard. I shouldn't have to explain why this is a problem, but I will anyway: this makes OU not fun. I don't want to click Find Battle knowing I'm going to get one of only three types of teams on the ladder from a very limited selection of playstyles. Stall is on life support at the moment, so it's kill or be killed.

    This brings me to my next point: rain kills. This has been a well-establish fact since the beginning of Black and White OU, and we've bent over backwards to ensure it stayed in a tier that never wanted it. We're well on our way to removing every single major threat threat this weather's ever had (Swift Swimmers, Manaphy, Thundurus) and reshaping the tiers in its image, yet we're still complaining about it. Drizzle is not balanced, wake the fuck up. It's ruining everything we love about this game while we slowly accept it because change is out of our reach. Be a soldier, get up and fight against this unholy force of nature.

    I don't want all weather banned, just the one that's causing the most trouble to get what's coming to it so we can start breathing easy and using Pokemon we actually like again. Get rid of Drizzle for me, and I'll gladly take Manaphy back. We seemed to have forgotten what good Water-type sweepers were since Ferrothorn, the Rotom-W, and Drizzle Politoed were introduced, but with one of those out of the way, Manaphy will gladly fill the gaping hole the late Suicune and soon-to-be Uber Toed left in both our hearts and our teams.
  17. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    Thousand Sunn...(y 2nd) #68

    No Suspects
  18. TEzeon

    TEzeon I'm a ramblin gamblin dude!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 26, 2009
    Confirming that TEzeon can Save the universe


    No suspects
  19. taxi driver

    taxi driver
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Nov 13, 2010
    lets go sunning
  20. Aneel Blading

    Aneel Blading

    Jun 5, 2011
    Im confirming PokemonKing4Life rank 83.

    Nominating: Deoxys-s, Thundurus, Dragonite, Excadrill, BP + Magic Bounce, and Reunicles
  21. shofu


    Aug 21, 2008
    Confirming as Ace the Creator.

    Baton Pass or Magic Bounce Espeon on Baton Pass teams: I must have 6-0'd everyone on the server using a Baton Pass team. As much as I love Baton Pass, I must say that it is indeed too good in 5th Gen, all thanks to Magic Bounce Espeon. Espeon alone makes it extremely difficult to find an opening to use Roar/Whirlwind, as well as making it damn near impossible to use Taunt without you taunting yourself. With the right team members, Espeon makes Baton Pass teams nearly flawless. Unless your team has the right tools (those being Haze and certain Pokemon), you will lose. There is simply nothing you can do against Baton Pass chains in most situations. All that and I didn't even mention how a boosted Stored Power can OHKO every Pokemon in the game without fail, excluding Dark types.

    Deoxys-S: Deoxys-S is too unpredictable. You send out Tyranitar predicting a pure support set and take a Superpower to the dome. You send out Scizor to 2HKO with Bullet Punch, catch a Fire Punch to the chest. Given that most Deoxys-S sets are pure support, it can guaranteed set up Stealth Rocks and at least one layer of Spikes. It can set up Light Screen and Reflect without fail and then have a sweeper come in and set up. Not only that, but it is a dangerous mixed attacker as well. It has flawless type coverage in every sense of the word, slap a Life Orb on it and it will kill a few of your team members. Fighting Pokemon are OHKO'd by Psycho Boost. Gliscor and Dragonite get raped by Ice Beam. Scarfed Landorus can't even revenge kill it, Deoxys-S is too fast and will KO with Ice Beam. Gyarados, Skarmory and Starmie are all OHKO'd by Thunderbolt. Scizor and Ferrothorn get demolished by HP Fire. Not even Heatran is safe as it runs Superpower often. It is broken because of its ability to have a plethora of move combinations, and the moveset will be unknown to the opponent before hand.

    That's about it. I hope you guys will reconsider nominating so many sweepers, otherwise stall with reign supreme and destroy us all.
  22. SGV


    Jun 13, 2010
    Nominating: Deoxys-S, Excadrill, Drizzle, Drought, Espeon
  23. bro fist

    bro fist so right, so wrong
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Aug 16, 2009
    Confirming as WNBA all star diana taurasi at lucky #7

    also confirming as simple as and diego forlan

    i'm also sky might fall at 1449, lol


    -auto-inducing weather abilities

    -baton pass
  24. Ziah


    Oct 21, 2010
    Ziah here.


    Baton Pass:
    Despite taking a considerable amount of time setting up, baton pass teams tend to have an easy time doing what they do, especially with the advent of White Herb, Magic Bounce etc which makes Taunting and phazing almost near impossible to do. Haze is the best way to get rid of baton passed boosts but other than that, it is pretty much dead weight on any pokemons moveset. In the hands of skilled players, baton pass teams becomes almost impossible to beat and you would have to rely on a crit or a perfectly timed roar/whirlwind to gain the upper hand.

    Boasting teh highest base speed in OU, this thing is almost guaranteed to get down 2 or 3 layers of hazards if you don't have a magic bouncer. With its vast movepool it can also take out common leads and switch-ins, taunt stealth rockers or setup dual screens for a teammate to start boosting.

    edit: ninjad by shofu ._.
  25. IronBullet

    IronBullet Astronomy Domine
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Oct 14, 2009
    _Fable_ is me
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