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OU Suspect Testing Round 5 Voter Identification and Suspect Nominations

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Sep 19, 2011.

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  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 15, 2009
    I'm a good 150-200 CRE away from voting reqs, but considering how Shrang took the time to post his autobiography, I want to propose something as well.

    Retesting of Deoxys-N: Ifeel the way this guy left OU was lacking in explanation. Yeah, Deoxys-A could 2HKO all of OU with no boosting moves whatsoever. But that doesn't mean Deoxys-N is broken. First of all, 150 base attacks can't hold a candle to 180 base attacks. You'll have to run a lot more moves like Psycho Boost instead of Psychic because there are just so many OHKOs and 2HKOs that Deoxys-N misses that Deoxys-A does not. Secondly, people argued that Deoxys-N wasn't as frail as Deoxys-A, but that still doesn't mean it'll ever survive non-fighting priority. 50/50/50 defenses make Infernape look like a wall, and considering how it'll pretty much always run Superpower, its defenses are just going to be even easier to capitalize on. Hell, with Superpower and a defense hindering nature, even Mach Punch is gonna do a number on it. Deoxys-N can theoretically run a deadly CB set with Extremespeed. But really, how much stronger is it than a CB Dragonite? All it means is that you need one less layer of spikes or one less Life Orb recoil to get a revenge kill, not that significant. Furthermore, Deoxys-N has to run the craptastic Zen Headbutt for STAB, which has significantly less power than CB Dragonite's Outrage, and has terrible coverage anyways. It's mixed sets can theoretically plow, but once again, this isn't Deoxys-A we're talking about, it just doesn't hit nearly as hard on either spectrum. Plus, how much more deadly can it be than a MixMence. Yeah, it has Psycho Boost to Mence's Draco Meteor, but even though Deoxys-N has more power, dragon is just plain better than psychic. Salamence also has access to Intimidate and Roost, so it has a much easier time getting in, and has much better survivability. In Deoxys-N's case, you pretty much have to sac somebody to get it in. The last most talked about set is the support Deoxys-N, but why the **** would you ever use that instead of Deoxys-S? Its pretty much just Deoxys-S with a stronger Extremespeed and is easier to revenge kill. Plus it loses one on one against Deoxys-S anyways. Speaking of revenge killing, Deoxys-N isn't actually that hard to take out. 150 base speed hits 438 at most. This means that anything faster than an Adamant Choice Scarf Haxorus can outspeed it. Lets hear a hip hip horray, Haxorus' speed is actually trolling someone else rather than being trolled. Once again, Extremespeed is not actually as dominant on Deoxys-N as you'd think. So essentially, Deoxys-N is a frail combination of Deoxys-S and Salamence, and even if you add the useage stats of those 2 together, you still have something used less than Tyranitar. I personally don't believe Deoxys-N will be broken or even overcentralizing.

    That was really friggin long, and I'd understand if Suspect voters don't even bother to read this. But I hope those who did bother to take a look keep that Deoxys-N never got a fair test into consideration, and nominate/ bring Deoxys-N back for one round. If it turns out to be broken, so be it, can't be nearly as bad as DPPt UU Yanmega. And hey, its a two sentence essay compared to Shrang's post. I guess I'ma just gonna have to learn some skills besides teambuilding.
  2. Thatsjustpeachy

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Jun 30, 2008
    Yay finally earned a checkmark

    Confirming as:
    Princess Peach-66th

    No Nominations, I firmly believe that the banning of BP, Shellsmash, "overpowered" sweepers will just make the metagame more stale and stall based. All of the following are beatable in their own way, although BP can get frustrating as it takes the least skill. However BP is another playing style that we should respect and the fact that it is uncommon shows its instability. BP is also limited in the pokes that fit into an all out BP team so it becomes very predictable. (I disagree about usage being a crappy reason for allowing BP to stay in OU as usage shows the trends of what works and doesn't work in the metagame)

    Sweepers such as Deoxys speed, volcarona, dragonite, excadrill, and reuniclus served as good stall breakers and getting rid of them could be very detrimental to the metagame. Sure they centralize the metagame but with their departure there will be someone else to take their place. As long as these are counterable, centralization is something we must accept. Volcarona and Dragonite lose their effectiveness under stealth rocks which is not hard to get up. Volcarona is for the most part walled by dragonite and for the most part completely walled by terrakion. Both of these counters are very common in the metagame and revenge killers such as excadrill and scarf landorus makes volcarona's field appearance very brief. With SR up, the number of times it can enter the battlefield is even more limited.

    Chomp shouldnt be brought back until the DW ability for it is released as sand viel hax will still play a big role against the high amount of sand storm teams and Manaphy's instant +3 spatk boost is overpowered even outside of rain in my opinion.

    Overall, no changes to the metagames
  3. Cristal


    Apr 18, 2008
    Confirming as #63 Jesus Cristal


    I won't explain why I nominate Excadrill and Baton pass, as enough people already did it and have explained this better than I could do.

    Anyway, I'd like also nominate Dragonite. As explained Mynism, he doesn't need weather to shine and has no real counters considering of Multi Scale. Indeed, absolutly nothing can revenge kill him when it's full life, and with roost/leftlovers, it's easy to keep it 100% life. He also has access to powerful moves like Outrage and Draco Meteor, Fire punch to break steels Pokemon and the extra priority of Extreme Speed. Not sure yet if I'll vote for his ban, but this thing deserves a mention in Suspect at least one time.
  4. Akola


    Apr 30, 2011
    Confirming as Jamy #1 and Roxou #22.
  5. Alf'

    is a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 25, 2011
    Confirming as DarkLoic (really ?) #32

    1) Baton pass :With the new mentali's special cap. combined at stored power,it's just broken. Gorebyss can use shell smash AND baton pass,and can obvious pass boosts at Luke,nite,kion,etc...With white herb's addition,it's just impossible to RK.
    Yesterday,on the ladder,3 teams on 5 used the infamous combo Deoxys/gorebyss/Introduce a random sweeper name.

    2) Shell smash + white herb :yeah,in addition. If baton pass is not suspected,i prefer to separate them.

    3) Deoxys-Speed :Broken. Not really for his power,who is just "basic",But for his ability to put at least 2 layers without that you can stop it. Same with screens.

    4) Reuniclus :Why ? This foetus is just broken. Trick room version can sweep easily a classic offensive team and calm minder destroy stall teams. What else ?
  6. HBK

    HBK Subtlety is my middle name

    May 25, 2009
    Already sent my special app coz my parents wouldn't let me play and I got the shit haxed out of me in the small time frame I got.

    Nominating Shell Pass coz it's very annoying how every ShellPass team runs espeon who you can't phaze,taunt,etc. And after a few boosts becomes a deadly sweeper with assist power.
  7. alamaster

    alamaster hello
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 22, 2004
    Confirming as ala.

    Noms for Uber:


    The fire moth is the only pokemon who has the stats to pull off Butterfly Dance. It shows just how strong this move is on something that can easily take advantage. Stealth Rock hinders it but with a team built around it (Drought, Espeon/Spinner) it becomes nearly impossible to stop. In order to beat it a team needs a fast Scarfer with a rock attack (Scarf Landorus/Terakion) but must be wary of switching in on a possible double stab Flame Dance/Fire Blast. Volcarona walls a lot of pokemon with its fantastic typing, and it always finds a place to set up. It's only must have attacks are Butterfly Dance, Flame Dance and Bug Buzz, leaving the last slot to defeat a number of its counters. That can be Hp Ground, Hp Ice, Rest (With Chesto Berry), Substitute, Morning Sun, and Fire Blast. This gives Volcarona great unpredictability and with two Butterfly Dances under its belt it becomes the fastest pokemon in the game and hits extremely hard. I'm nominating Volcarona because it becomes too strong too quickly for the OU metagame to handle. It abuses one of the best set up moves in the game perfectly, and it's fantastic typing (especially in the Sun) makes it easy to wall many threats, allowing it to setup and pull off a sweep.

    Noms for OU:

    Manaphy(Using Manaphy with Drizzle is still banned)

    I'm nominating Manaphy be tested for OU but this time without the help of Drizzle. The one component that made Manaphy near impossible to stop was the fact that it could get a free Rest in whenever it wanted to. The Calm Mind set in particular was very tough to stop and it could even set up on Grass/Electric mons. Without the help of Drizzle, the Calm Mind set becomes a worse Suicune defensively but slightly stronger offensively. The real draw to Manaphy will be Tail Glow, allowing it to set up to +3 Sp.att in one turn. This will make Manaphy one of the better sweepers of OU, but it's not overly fast (easily revenged) or bulky since it can't Rest on pokemon like Ferrothorn anymore. Manaphy will also punish the many Rain teams that currently occupy OU. I don't think Manaphy had a fair ban back in round two and should be tested in the same way as Swift Swim. Without Drizzle, Manaphy is a strong sweeper but not broken.
  8. Ojama

    Ojama Are you watching closely...
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Championis the 1st Smogon Classic Winner

    Mar 12, 2011
    Confirming as Ojama #10

    Nominations :

    Excadrill : Well, I think I don't need to explain why this thing should get banned. Incredible Attack and Speed due to its ability, immune to Toxic Spikes, just take 3% on Stealth Rock, strong STAB, access to Swords Dance, etc.........

    Shell Smash : A move which gives a +2 in Attack / SpA / Speed should get banned, in addition white herb eliminates the -2 in Def / SDef.

    Deoxys-S : This thing can set up so easily 3 Spikes + Stealth Rock, an incredible Speed and Move Pool, the best Lead in the game that's all. When you start with Stealth Rock and at least 1 or 2 layers of Spikes, it's gg already. In addition, this thing can help the broken combo of Shell Smash + Baton Pass.
  9. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Has got the gift of gab
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 30, 2010
    Special Application in.

    Nominations for Uber:

    Excadrill : Snunch and Shrang have both already written incredible posts closely detailing why Excadrill is broken. Excadrill is without question one of the(if not THE) most threatening sweeping pokemon ever. With Sand present and a single turn of set-up he reaches 810 Atk and 550 Speed. Not only is he an amazing sweeper but he makes CS'd 'mons obselete meaning to "revenge kill" him you need CStoed or Ninetales. If you do not have one of those mons then you cannot revenge kill him and must bring in a bulky 'mon who can take a hit and finish him(ex. Gliscor). HO teams crumble before him as even Conk cannot OHKO without prior damage. Stall too faces great trouble as he is pretty much guaranteed to spin away all of their hard-earned hazards. He limits team building to a huge degree, for instance 9/10 of my teams will have gliscor.

    Reuniclus : Another pokemon who limits team building. Reuniclus is a pokemon who has everything going for it. One sets murders Stall and another murders offensive. The best checks to the CMer are destroyed by the TR set. Without SpDef Scizor or Jirachi your team becomes fairly Reuniclus weak.

    Dragonite : An odd nomination but it seems that a few others have also become aware of Dragonite's brokeness. It has all the right moves to beat down the entire metagame. It is the mirror image of 4th gen Salamence, where you have to guess at what set your opponent is running and if your wrong you probably just lost a pokemon. But it only gets better, where Salamence could set-up on physical threats with Intimidate Dragonite can literally set-up on almost anything as long as Multiscale is intact. People say "ah but SR breaks it", but we have already gone over how easy it is to RSpin in this meta, allowing Dragonite to come in with Multiscale intact and ready to do heavy damage. Dnite has been my mvp on almost every team this Round because of the fact it can do so much damage so consistently.

    Nominations for OU:

    Manaphy(Without Drizzle) : I would like to hop on board with ala and his reasoning for nominating Manaphy(without Drizzle) for OU. Manaphy was banned because with Rain support he was so hard to take down, but he was never tested as Swift Swim was; where he can be used but only with Drizzle support
  10. Scimjara

    Scimjara Bert Stare

    Sep 21, 2008
    I am asdegwasfafwe
  11. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Jun 5, 2009
    I am Delta 2777.

    Deoxy-S: Worst suspect. Deoxys-S is so incredibly versatile; it can set up duel screens (and rocks) for your sweeper, set up multiple layers of EHs instead, or it can surprise your surefire counter with a full LO set, as it has just enough power to really screw its counters over. You really can lure anything with Deoxys-S; Conkeldurr/Virizion? Psycho Boost. Dragonite/Gliscor/Landorus/Latios? Ice Beam. Jellicent/Skarmory/Gyarados/Politoed/Starmie? Thunderbolt. Scizor/Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory? HP Fire. Gastrodon/Rotom-W? Energy Ball. Tyranitar/Heatran? Superpower. Obviously Deoxys-S can't run all of these moves at once (in addition to running Stealth Rock even more so), but the point is Deoxys-S is simply unpredictable, and while not all of the listed moves are common, I have seen all of them several times [*I have only been Energy Balled once]. If Doexys-S's set was revealed before the match started, it wouldn't be broken at all, but this isn't the case and therefore is too difficult to play against.

    Dragonite: Also very versatile, and Multiscale just makes it incredible. Hit ridiculously hard off the bat with Choice Band Outrage (while surviving really strong stuff like LO Latios's Draco Meteor), or use a set with Leftovers and Roost to activate Multiscale multiple times and easily dismantle teams once their "counter" is sufficiently weakened (usually a counter to one set is completely destroyed by another as Dragonite is so versatile).

    Excadrill: Best Rapid Spinner, best revenge killer, probably the best sweeper. Excadrill is such a ridiculously centralizing force considering the spike in Bronzong, Tangrowth, Gliscor, and Balloon Heatran/Terrakion/Magnezone. The fact of the matter is there are ways to deal with and beat Excadrill. The downside to this is that I don't that the changes it causes are very healthy for the metagame. Excadrill is, for the most part, Lucario on steroids (with Rapid Spin).

    Thundurus: Fast, strong, decent bulk. I probably wouldn't mind it in OU if I didn't think one of the best sand sweepers (and also one of its best counters) were leaving us as well. Nasty Plot with Lum Berry in the rain has no counters except for SpDef Gastrodon, but let's not forget how easy Gastrodon is to lure with HP Grass Rotom-W (and I have also seen MANY Thundurus forego Focus Blast in favor of Grass Knot to OHKO Gastrodon at +2).
  12. ENZ0

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 18, 2009


    Drizzle: The first weather that potentially ruins BW OU. It has a countless amount of abusers, strong secondary effects, and causes dullness in metagame.

    Drought: The second weather that potentially ruins BW OU. It has a countless amount of abusers, strong secondary effects, and causes dullness in the metagame.

    Excadrill: Excadrill is completely overpowered in terms of how difficult he is to not just counter, but check. I use to believe his greatest attributes were Sand Rush, power, and resistances, but I have come to learn Rapid Spin is the best move the mole has. If used correctly this guy not just only decimates hazard teams with the use of Rapid Spin, but he consistently functions as a sweeper afterwards with only two moves - Frustration and Earthquake.

    *Weather: I truly wanted to ban Sand Stream too, but that would mean Tyranitar gets banned. As a result, I feel banning Excadrill is the closest remedy to that. If you ban one weather, you have to ban all. But, the most important weathers to ban at the moment are Drizzle and Drought, at least until Tyranitar's dream world ability gets released. I've written countless arguments relating to why weather should be banned, but recently I've concluded arguably my best point. Weather makes team matchup a much stronger factor in BW OU. I've noticed that most people that dislike BW OU, do so as a result of the high dependency on team matchup that is made even stronger with team preview. Team preview makes it even easier for weather to dominate during the entire match i.e. weather starter survivability. I'm not saying team preview should be taken out, I'm saying that when you see your team and your opponent's team you automatically have a solid idea of whether you are going to win or lose, considering both players are decent. When you know you are going to win or lose before Turn 1 - no matter how good you play because both players are at the top of their game - you decrease competitiveness, and ultimately shrink SKILLS into skills. The only skill you can argue that is carried by weather is keeping your weather starter alive, which in my opinion shouldn't be as fancied as it currently is by players. Determining a game solely by weather starters, furthermore, increases the influence of luck in a matchup. What I'm trying to say is that if some uncontrollable factor ruins your weather starter's chance of survival, you will probably end up losing the battle. As a counterargument to all this you could say that team matchup has existed and will always exist, but not to the degree it exists now. You could also mention weatherless teams and their viability, but that would be a load of crap, because a well-played weather team ends up beating weatherless teams most of the time. I'm not attacking weatherless teams, their creativity and viability is exactly what I'm looking for in BW OU.
  13. Kinglypuff


    Jan 4, 2011
    I'm Kinglypuff
  14. Eternal

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Apr 2, 2008

    I would like to second this nomination. Sunkern allowed me to easily sweep the ladder and get reqs in just a few battles.
  15. Avira


    Oct 21, 2009
    Rotom - w - Gen V bestowed upon the Rotom applicances retyping and this particular incarnation of Rotom received the second best offensive typing in the game. With the introduction of Volt Switch, and immunity to two hazards, Rotom-w serves as an excellent scouter and momentum keeper on non-weather teams, Sand and Rain teams, allowing it to easily switch out of something that can shrug off Volt Switch, or if the opposition is immune to Electric attacks, it can fire off Hydro Pumps against them unless they also have a water resistance like Gastrodon. The problem with Gastrodon and Quasgsire is that they have an easily exploitable Grass weakness and can be taken out by Hidden Power Grass and can also be dealt with by using Toxic and crippling their longevity. This makes Rotom-w walled entirely by Dragon and Grass types, but if one can remove the Ground immunity from the opposing team, it is free to just switch out those that wall it as they enter the field with Volt Switch. What separates Rotom-w from other species like Scizor, Landorus, Hydreigon, Infernape, and Magnezone that can use Volt Switch/U-Turn is its superior defensive better typing (and it also has better offensive coverage than many of them) that allows for more switch-ins due to the higher amount of resistances and lack of weaknesses (only Grass) than the others and that some of the others like Scizor, Infernape, and Magnezone, take far more entry hazard damage. This makes Rotom-w a much bigger asset than the others as it does its job much better.

    Many species that can switch into Rotom-w are immediately threatened out by switching to a setup sweeper or another scouter that can continue to mess with your momentum (Celebi and Lati@s being weak to U-Turn). Most Gastrodon are specially bulky and if Rotom-w lacks HP Grass, one can pivot to Scizor as it is forced out by the threat of a powerful Banded U-Turn and continue the scouting chain, or one can switch in a powerful sweeper that has very few safe switch-ins. On Rain teams, Rotom-w has the typing to get a double STAB on Hydro Pump and a 100% accurate Thunder. It can deal huge amounts of damage to many Pokemon in OU as a sweeper and cripple key checks to it and Rain, like Blissey and Gastrodon, with Trick and a Choice item.

    I believe that Rotom-w supports teams too well and should be banned from Standard OU as it makes some playstyles too powerful with its ability to keep momentum and exploit the opposing players' actions due to its fantastic typing/ability and is in my opinion, a better support Pokemon than all of the weather starters.

    Excadrill - It is just far too powerful and is able to muscle through even the strongest walls. At +2, a Rock Slide from an Adamant LO Excadrill 2HKOs Skarm with a bit of prior damage, and 90% accuracy with a 30% chance to flinch, nets a 27% chance to flinch, which is greater than the chance to miss Garchomp under Sand Veil. A Max HP/Max Defense Impish Gliscor, which is the best answer to walling Excadrill, has a chance to be 2HKO'd by a +2 Rock Slide flinching it, followed by a Return. It is also the best Rapid Spinner in OU due to its tremendous power making Ghosts steer away from it and it can easily spin as walls switch into it, ruining the effectiveness of stall.

    Do not unban Manaphy if Drizzle gets banned -Even without Drizzle, Manaphy would be still be broken with its checks being too easily removed by its teammates and it being able to boost much faster with one Tail Glow bringing it to +3.
  16. Cicada

    Cicada radical dreamer
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Aug 28, 2010
    Confirming as Cicαdα.

    Excadrill : Excadrill is, without a doubt, one of the most fearsome sweepers in the metagame if not THE most fearsome, thanks to his gargantuous raw Attack stat of 405 max coupled with base 88 Speed and Sand Rush, without forgetting his Ground stab, his pretty good bulk with allow him to take some super effective priority attacks such as Mach Punch or Aqua Jet, his immunities to Toxik and Thunder Wave and enough good movepool which allow him to hit really hard on the majority of the metagame, i.e Swords Dance. The reason that he wasn't banned in the previous suspect stages was the fact that he have some 'hard counters' and some pretty solid checks (in OU, the list looks like Gliscor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Tangrowth, Rotom-W if not Return, Hippowdon, Conkeldurr, Azumarill, Scarf Politoed, Ninetales). The problem is, even if they seems to be perfectly reliable on the paper, the contrary can be sadly true in-game, thanks to BS flinch. Who did never have his Skarmory beaten by flinch spam ? Remember the Smogon Frontier last battle between Reachzero and Bloo, which ended cause of a flinch on Air Balloon Heatran. Also, we cannot deny that he limits the teambuilding and even with the right precautions, he can still be a pain in the ass. Try to build a Hyper Offense team for example, you'll always find that Excadrill is a real headache to play around. See, if you want your team to be competitive, you MUST have at least one 'counter' to Excadrill, which is so often resumed to Skarmory/Gliscor for the most sure scenario. We can add some details like the fact that nothing beside some randoms scarfers outspeed it (i.e Scarf Deoxys-S) or that he can run a multitude of roles (support, finisher, revenge-killer etc), but I think everything I said was already covered by the other users. I really think his ban would be really profitable, as it could help this metagame to evolve.

    Baton Pass : I don't think this move is broken by itself, but that's the combinaisons which came with it which can be reffered to cheap game. We can see there's two relevant types of teams based succesfully around this single move : Shell Smash BP teams and Pure BP teams. To make it simple, look at the way Shell Smash teams are built : Dual Screener + BP Gorebyss + 4 sweepers with good coverage. That's all, and it wrecks shit. Even your average novice player can really have good results without having great skills. There isn't much things to say, that's a gay strategy overall. So now, let's talk about Pure BP teams. It's a bit more difficult to build and to play unlike Shell Smash teams, but it's still damn annoying to face. There's three things which makes them really hard to stop in regard to 4gen BP teams. First, the introduction of Magic Bounce Espeon remove one point which was crucial when playing Pure BP teams, the need of Ingrain Smeargle to prevent phazers to tear appart the strategy. Plus, we can add that if he have enough boosts, he's nearly unblockable if there isn't Dark type on the field. Second to this, the metagame is often too much offense oriented to use freely taunters or phazers. Third, there's so many things to counter and we cannot avoid some openings whatever we do, and unfortunately BP teams profit a lot of this idea. As long complex ban aren't possible, the better way to rectify this point is to ban this move. Anyway, It's not really used beside the cited themes, so It's not like it's really problematic.

    Look at the changements between the release of this gen and now, you'll find if you think well that the limits set by this kind of threat makes the game really stagnant and pretty boring. For the good of the game, the better way to make a good meta is to put asunder that is limiting the flow of the game. I'm not nominating weather yet because i'm still mixed about this, but I support their departure, unless for Tyranitar which only bring Excadrill as a broken aspect imo.

    That's my two cents, sorry for my imperfect english, hope that's enough understandable !

    Also, GTFO THUNDURUS !!!
  17. Rewer

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 15, 2009
    #57 rwr

    das me.

    Nominations: Deoxys-S, Drizzle, Drought, Excadrill, Dragonite, Espeon with Baton Pass, Shell Smash + Baton Pass
  18. Squirrel.


    Jan 16, 2010
    Confirming as Squirrel


    Batonpass / Shell Smash:

    Well first off BP is absolutely ridiculous with the new additions of Espeon, stored power, Shell Smash, its just another threat you have to worry about when your making a team aside from the other 100 viable pokes in OU. Mr.Mime stops your attempt to perish song and Espeon stops you from roaring so I am not sure how stall plans on beating Baton pass. Then you throw in Shell Smash which requires 2 turns to make a monster sweeper, 2 turns in nothing with any kind of support obviously a broken move. I am not going to go to in-depth since enough people have already expanded on how dumb BP is so ill leave it at that.
  19. MetaGross66


    Dec 2, 2007
    Confirming Pokmi at #11.


    Looking back at some of these noms. lol @ rotom-w, otr reuniclus, and volc.
  20. Krack

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 29, 2008
    I'm Krack
  21. ToF

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Sep 30, 2007
    im blue eyess


    GTFO BATON PASS: Not only has it been shown that full-fledged baton pass teams work extremely well in the metagame (stunt can't play anything but baton pass :P), but even a strategy as simple as smash-passing is easy to pull off with the advent of Magic Mirror Espeon. Espeon has changed the entire way Baton Pass chains function, removing the Ingrain Smeargle step and allowing teams to use much more bulky passers, such as Mew and Celebi. It makes beating these teams a shit-ton harder, especially with new boosting moves like Shell Smash that further increase the power of these teams. Make it go away please, I've been preaching this shit since like round 2.
  22. Taker


    Apr 8, 2010
    Confirming as 300.


    Drizzle & Drought: Seriously... Drizzle impose to use 2-3 water resists, or an absorber like Gastrodon/Jellicent, Tornadus is broken, and globaly the offensive pressure of these team limits the build... no thanks. For Drought, I think chlorosweepers are brokens, and for the majority, sunny team=random offense (Tales/Venusaur/Sawsbuck/Darmanitan/Dugtrio/Forretress, trololol), isn't strategy. No thanks².
    Globally, the concept of «weathers war» is really boring since 1 year imo, and it blocks the using of many pokémons.

    Deoxys-S: Free EH, free screens, or impredictable sweeper. No thanks, go to Uber.

    Shell Smash: Ridiculously powerful... it's just broken lol, justify is useless. All randoms can win with this shit, isn't possible, isn't strategy.

    Baton Pass: Even without Shell Smash i want ban it. I think chains of BP is just unbreakable if we haven't the good move, and even, phaze is impossible cause Sub/Espeon, etc... This is just anti-strategy.

    P.S: Sorry for my english, it's not very good x).
  23. Nails

    Nails Nuke the Weebs
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    May 14, 2010

    unban brightpowder - this was stupid. it's not a consistent item, nothing used it preban. it's not even good.
  24. TROP

    TROP ur a faget
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 6, 2011
    Didn't get reqs but leaving my opinions anyway:
    How the hell did this was allowed to be here for almost a year?it is nearly as bad as Armor Abilities and Bloom were to Halo(on a second thought it might be worse),they not only reduce they skill gap greatly they also make the game to have a great dependency on matchup that can cause you to lose on turn 1 after team preview.It also makes already strong as fuck pokemon way harder to counter/check or already bulky pokemon like Jirachi to be way harder to kill.
    Unban Manaphy/Garchomp if Drizzle/Sand Stream respectively are banned
    Weather is what totally broke them,and without it I think they deserve a second chance and if they prove broken without it they can return to Ubers.
    Just because why the hell not,a joke nom:
    Ban Hydreigon
    ,can kill what Latios can't mainly his main checks,Hydreigon's specs draco meteor breaks through the multiscale of most Dragonite with ease.Sure he has his check that are the Mienshao and up speed tier but they can be played around pretty easily with other pokemon that have good synergy with it,and priority fails to kill him too and most of what is going to use priority against Hydreigon lacks the power to really kill it.Oh and once the pink blobs are gone it can really show stall who is boss or work pretty good member on one taking down Reuniclus with hardly any damage using specs Dark pulse.

    I wanted to nominate Volcarona too,but I prefer to wait for a weatherless or at least a drizzleless meta for that.

    Now that I'm done here,leaving you guys until November thanks to Reach's TU.
  25. tehy

    tehy Banned deucer.

    Aug 16, 2010
    I'm tehyX.

    Also all the other tehy incarnations.

    Do i have to prove it some other way, or is this message enough?
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