Ok, I'm making this topic because, for those of you who don't know, I am hosting the next PSW (co-hosted by jumpluff), because von wants to kill everyone for being so bad at this game (j/k). This thread is going to cover all of the proposed changes for PSW III, and I'd like to hear your opinions on them, because there are quite a few significant ones. Stuff regarding Players There will still be 8 players, but I'll try to get a larger number of newcomers in if there is demand. So you could be looking at 3 or even 2 returning players. Also, players will be allowed to send in a list of classes in order of preference, and we will do our best to accommodate everyone. You don't have to list them in strict order either. For example, you can do: 1. Rogue 2. Shaman 3. Cavalier/Warrior/Knight 4. Everyone else. And yes, this means that you can do 1. Everyone if you wanna random. ____________________________________________________ Setting No, we won't be blowing up Amesbury anymore. Instead, we'll be holding PSW III at Dunshaughlin, Ireland, near the Lia Fail. The date will be different as well. We'll most likely be holding it during the 1970s or such. This is so that cell phones, pagers, cameras, and other such gadgets are unavailable, while making taxis still available. If you want to use a house phone or a telegraph, be our guest. This also means that it'll be taking place during The Troubles. This won't have that much effect on gameplay other than making it even easier for players to do crazy things, cause it'll all be blamed on Ulster Loyalists. ____________________________________________________ Heroic Champions We were thinking of renaming Sorcerer to Mage and Cavalier to Rider, to prevent confusion since Sorcerer and Cavalier are actual Pathfinder classes. After some discussion, we decided to just revert to F/SN classes since there's no real point in pretending otherwise. So the classes will be renamed to the following Knight - Shield Warrior - Berserker Cavalier - Rider Sorcerer - Caster Shaman - Savior Rogue - Assassin Archer and Sage will retain their names. This change actually increases the scope of legends for Knight. ____________________________________________________ All Champions will have their innates revealed in the first post. This is for fairness because we're introducing a new class, the Sage, and we don't want that class to be the only one that people have no knowledge of. We will remove Monk in place of the Sage. Well, if for some reason a bunch of people absolutely want to have the Monk, we could think about it, but that's not part of the plans now. There are a number of reasons for removing Monk, but chief among them are limited legend selection and the lack of a really unique playstyle. The knowledge-based Sage initially proposed is in the spoiler tags below. We're currently proposing a minion-based Sage now. Hide (Move your mouse to the hide area to reveal the content) Show Hide Hide Hide The new proposed class, the Sage, will aim to have none of these weaknesses. A very wide variety of figures are selectable for the Sage. These include mythical wise men, legendary strategists, famous scholars, and ascetic religious teachers (some Monks qualify for Sage under this), or any other figures related to knowledge and advice. The Sage will be a versatile spellcaster, with a much, much larger number and variety of spells compared to the other two spellcasting champs. However, almost all of them will be low level spells purely for utility and divination, with only a small amount meant for combat, making him the weakest of the eight classes in direct combat. Instead, he uses his knowledge to aim at weaknesses and finish off injured combatants, while many of his utility spells get him out of sticky situations that other champions have no answer to. The Sage's first innate, Sage's Theurgy, allows him to pick spells from both the Divine and Arcane lists. The second, Absolute Knowledge, is threefold. It grants him select starting information on his opponent champs, brief knowledge of any battles that occur and their results, as well as knowledge on all Order Spell counts. This new minion-based Sage will still have a wide choice of legends to choose from, although the shift away from knowledge does mean that certain figures fit the new Sage more. Legendary strategists, writers, or teachers who are more suitable for acting as a central character controlling followers fit best, although philosophers and other wise men are still acceptable. The Sage is a versatile spellcaster, and specializes in having significantly more options than other champions. His first innate, Sage's Theurgy, allows him to pick spells from both the Divine and Arcane lists, while the second, Apostles of the Sage, allows him to command a number of minions who are capable of fulfilling different roles. However, his individual spells are not as powerful compared to the other two spellcasting classes, and his minions are also much weaker compared to enemy champions. The Sage is thus a jack-of-all-trades that is at his strongest when all of his abilities are fully utilized. The knowledge-based Sage we were originally envisioning was supposed to have an absolutely ginormous list of spells, but the current Sage will have a much smaller list, although still larger than the other two spellcasters. This is because of the added versatility offered by his minions. Frankly, minions have always been amazing in both PSWs, so I doubt this is a problem. ____________________________________________________ We plan on changing Assassin as well. Here is the current concept, we appreciate all feedback on both the concepts as well as the numbers: - Sneak Attack nerfed to 5d6. - Assassin gains an extra innate: Assassinate. The Assassin can choose to observe a target for 3 rounds as a standard action each round, as long as he stays within 30 feet of his target. After the 3 rounds are up, the Assassin can Assassinate the target if he surprises his target within 1 minute. Assassinate is a melee attack that automatically hits and does 15d6 sneak attack instead of 5d6. If you're a ranged Assassin, you must still be within 30 feet. In addition, the Assassin can choose two more conditions to inflict on his target from the following list: stunned 1 round, staggered 3 rounds, -4 to STR or DEX 5 rounds, 50% miss chance or spell failure 3 rounds. This works as a nerf to Bedeviling Aura Assassin and also encourages trickery with stuff like Bluff/Disguise/Diplomacy/Invisibility/Stealth. ____________________________________________________ Summoners First, some changes to school powers: Counterspell Mastery can't be used together with Dispel Magic. School effects that replicate banned spells such as the Controller subschool's Irresistible Demand are similarly banned. So you can use Irresistible Demand on NPCs, but not on PCs, because Dominate Monster is usable on NPCs. ____________________________________________________ Ok, the next big change is to the summoners. This is based on a discussion pluff and I had with von. We also want to rename the Wizard/Summoner PSW class to avoid confusion with the PF class (the following paragraph was super confusing), so just for now, we're using the working name of 'Master' until we think of something better. The newly proposed Master can be thought of as a mix of a Level 20 Summoner's defenses and a Level 10 Wizard's offenses: -Level 20 Summoner HP and saves. This means all Masters will have base +6/+6/+12 saves as well 20 d8 hitdie. This means that Champions are now allowed to attack Masters (Knight's Cover will be rebalanced in such a case). -Certain Summoner class features. Right now, the only things I want are Bond Senses and Greater Shield Ally (can only be used on the Champion's Master) -Level 10 Wizard magic abilities. This means that the spell available to you are that of a Level 10 Wizard's, and you cast accordingly. School powers and specializations will be allowed, but still as that of a Level 10 Wizard. For example, Counterspell Masters still only get 2 immediate counterspells a day, and Enhancement's Perfection of Self is +5. -Level 10 Wizard skills, BAB etc. The rationale behind this change is to get rid of the Master protection rule which is a 'big rules headache', as von puts it himself. Making sturdier but unprotectable Masters also makes tactics in this game more in-depth, compared to before when you just stuck your wizard by your Champion and that was it. Also, higher saves is a nerf to SoD spells. This is just a working version though. For example, pluff and I aren't that comfortable with Masters having more HP than certain Champs on average (Sorc has d6 hitdie whereas Summoners have d8) or even equal HP on average. One way to solve this could just be to make Masters have level 15 Summoner defenses or such...But we definitely need more discussion and input on this. ____________________________________________________ Spells Just for confirmation, you CAN use touch spells and abilities on yourself. All Evocation and other high-damage spells will be unnerfed. Fire Snake, Cone of Cold, and Lightning Arc will be buffed. The following save-or-die/disables will be removed from the spell list: Stinking Cloud Deep Slumber Hold Person/Monster Black Tentacles Confusion Phantasmal Killer FEEBLEMIND Symbol of Sleep Baleful Polymorph Suffocation Mind Fog And next, specific cases: Magic Aura - Banned on Mana Founts. Fire Snake - Creatures who fail their save catch on fire. These creature take 3d6 fire damage on your next turn and are then allowed a new Reflex save to extinguish the flames. If they fail, they take another 3d6 fire damage the next turn, and are then allowed another save. This continues until the flames are extinguished. Cone of Cold - Creatures who fail their save become fatigued for 10 rounds. Lightning Arc - Pick one creature who failed its save against this spell. It is dazed for its next turn and can take no actions. Mage Armour - Doesn't work on Champions. Shield - Doesn't give extra AC to Champions already holding shields. You can still cast it to beat Magic Missiles. Bullet Shield - Reduced to +2 VS Champion ranged weapons. Stoneskin (Both versions) - +4 Weapons don't count as Adamantine for the purposes of overcoming Stoneskin. Still limited to DR 5 on Champions. Grease - Only lasts one round when used on Champion weapons. Icy Prison - Reflex negates, not partial. If you attack to destroy the ice, there is no damage spillover to the person encased in the ice. Fear - It is legal to do things like attempt to Dimension Door/Teleport out with allies if you're feared. If your allies refuse to leave, you MUST attempt to escape by yourself. In fact, if you have no other means of escape and you're feared, you MUST attempt to use these escape methods, unless you will definitely provoke an AoO, in which case you cower. Charm/Dominate series of Enchantments, Magic Jar - Doesn't work on PCs. Oppressive Boredom - Increased to level 3. Phantasmal Web - A character who saves can automatically break his allies out of the illusion. Planar Binding/Polymorph Spells (Beast Shape, Elemental Form, Undead Anatomy etc.) - Technically there are no changes to these spells, but I must warn you that I will exercise my discretion when it comes to these spells. Pretty much everything that current players want to do will still be legal, it's just certain combos that might be discovered that I'm wary of. ____________________________________________________ Mana Founts Regarding founts, I believe that the fount system is superior to quests. I think the basic idea behind the fount system is very nicely designed, it just needs some fixes to the execution and it'll work. In addition to this, the fount system is already designed and has been done before, giving us more of an idea on how it will work, and encourages more PvP plotting outside of mere combat. I propose a number of changes to the fount system: 1) Reduce the amount of mana given by founts, and limit how long founts last. This is so that there isn't stockpiling of mana. 2) Don't make fount creation/destroying take up spell slots. Make them free abilities instead, but limit the amount of founts you can create per day. This is so the previous problem where players don't pack scrubbing spells doesn't occur. 3) More areas in the city. We already planned to make a more detailed map anyway, and this will help make fount placement more in-depth since there are more areas. 4) Reduce time required for creating/destroying founts. This allows people to place founts at more interesting places. 5) Give a mana reward for each enemy fount you destroy. This encourages people to stop turtling and go on the offensive. 6) Give players a starting amount of mana. This is to counteract the other changes and ensure players aren't fucked over if they have a bad Day 1. A fount can be anything as long as it's not too big (ask me if you want confirmation on specific items). So you could make a section of the wall in your house a fount. However, once a fount moves, it is no longer considered a fount. So you could make yourself a fount and not move the whole day and get 100 mana at the end of it. This also means making some air a fount is not a good idea, for example, cause it's bound to move. Making or destroying a fount takes 5 minutes and requires no spell slots. Masters are able to sense mana founts automatically. Current numbers would be 300 starting mana, 100 mana a day per fount for 3 days, and 100 mana for destroying an enemy fount. You'd be allowed to make 2 founts every day. We are considering that vanilla mana abilities idea as well since von suggested it. Right now we're considering 50 mana for a +2 on one attack roll, +2 AC vs one attack roll, +2 Spell Resistance vs one spell, or +2 on a save vs one spell. You can't stack a bonus more than once, so you can't spend 400 mana for a +16 to hit on one attack. We may also limit the number of times you can use these minor bonuses a turn to three or a similar number. Champion abilities that require mana will scale according to the amount of mana used, with no cost/very little cost for the lowest level of such abilities. All proposed changes are up.