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Pokémon Mystery Dungeon (All Generations)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Ray Jay, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Keiran


    Aug 21, 2011
  2. DTC

    DTC I'll be your 1-Up girl
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    May 8, 2011
    So I was right about the dungeon layout; it is indeed fantastic. The graphics in general are really cool, especially BRAVIARY.

    The rumor on IRC that we could only use five Pokemon has seemed to be confirmed false by the video. In it, you could see a Zorua being recruited.

    I love what I'm seeing so far. ^_^
  3. Espeon65


    Aug 12, 2012
    This game is turning out to look awesome! I just wish that they had more pokemon than Tepig, Oshawott, Snivy, Pikachu, and Axew to start with, but still, it will be really cool. I've been hoping they would make something like this since Black and White came out. I sort of expected Pansear, Panpour, and Pansage to be starters too, though.
  4. Keiran


    Aug 21, 2011
    I doubt those are all the fifth gen "starter" Pokemon. I imagine Pokemon such as Lillipup, Timburr and Litwick could all be possibilities.
  5. Espeon65


    Aug 12, 2012
    I have to admit, those pokemon would be awesome. Especially Litwick. I think Blitzle and Drilbur would be awesome possibilities.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I've never been into this series enough to actually buy one myself (although I did enjoy Red Rescue Team), but I excited for this simply because it means we'll FINALLY get a decent pokemon game made specifically for the 3DS.

    Either way, the trailer looks great.
  7. Keiran


    Aug 21, 2011
    K so Serebii has pictures (which I believe are mostly from the trailer) and I guess I'll just post my thoughts on them.

    If I had to guess, Hydreigon seems like the ideal Pokemon to be the game's primary antagonist. It seems like the perfect Pokemon for the job. Virizion seems like it will also play a prominent role in the game's storyline. I think Virizion could be the guild master of the game. Terrakion, Cobalion and possibly Keldeo could also possibly come into storyline, too, just as what happened with Mesprit, Azelf and Uxie.

    A "magnagate" seems to a portal that appears when you use the 3DS' camera on a real life object.

    This game looks amazing so far
  8. IstheCakeReallyaLie


    Apr 14, 2012
    You know, I thought this was going to be terribad at first, but then I saw the character portraits and dungeoning, and I was a fan. Give it a chance, anyone who doesn't like it.
  9. Espeon65


    Aug 12, 2012
    yeah, I'm just hoping that BW2 keeps my interest long enough that the wait for this PMD doesn't seem endless, lol. XD
  10. callforjudgement


    Jul 8, 2009
    For anyone who has trouble with Drifloon: try carrying a junk hold item (No-Aim Scope or whatever), and throw it at a Drifloon when you see one. It's not smart enough to drop it and turn Unburden back on. (Note: it has to be a junk item, because it may well get exploded when you kill the Drifloon.)
  11. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    no, the main problem with drifloon is that generally you end up in the same room as it but you end up on the wrong side and can't toss anything to negate unburden before it starts sending 2 ominous winds, which = 2 chances to raise stats, and chances are you'll end up on the wrong side of murphy's law. iirc even skitties could be killed by ominous wind...
  12. Zowayix


    Oct 26, 2008
    I calculated out some probabilities based on a single turn of encountering an opposing Drifloon in a dungeon room, assuming you cannot disable Unburden and it uses Ominous Wind at every opportunity.

    The list below is absurdly long and covers all 140 different scenarios, but I've condensed them into spoilers.

    Assumed mechanics:
    - Unburden allows the Pokemon to make two moves in one turn, using only 1 PP.
    - Ominous Wind has a 10% chance of boosting the user's Attack, Sp. Atk, Defense, Sp. Def, and movement speed by 1 stage.
    - Stat boosts cap at +6. Movement Speed caps at +3 (4 moves per turn).
    - At maximum speed, a Pokemon with Unburden can make 8 moves in 1 turn, using 4 PP in the process.

    N = No boost
    B = Boost
    X = Boost not applicable because all stats are at +6 already

    In the list below, something like "NBBNNN 570" means:
    - Drifloon makes a move. Ominous Wind is used twice thanks to Unburden. The second time gets the 10% chance of a boost. (NB)
    - Because Movement Speed is now +1, Drifloon can make two moves this turn, so it gets another move. It uses Ominous Wind twice thanks to Unburden. The first time gets the 10% chance of a boost. (BN)
    - Because Movement Speed is now +2, Drifloon can make three moves this turn, so it gets another move. It uses Ominous Wind twice thanks to Unburden. Neither time gets the boost. (NN)
    - Drifloon has now made the maximum three (six) moves for its Movement Speed, so the turn ends.
    - Overall, the move did 60+60+90+120+120+120 = 570 base power damage, plus STAB. Ominous Wind now has 2/5 PP remaining.

    And now for the gigantic list:

    No boosts:
    Probability 0.9*0.9 = 81%
    Average base power = 120
    Show Hide
    NN 120

    One boost:
    Probability 2*0.9^3*0.1 = 14.58%
    Average base power = 315
    Show Hide
    NBNN 300
    BNNN 330

    Two boosts:
    Probability 5*0.9^4*0.1^2 = 3.2805%
    Average base power = 592.5
    Show Hide
    NBNBNN 540
    NBBNNN 570
    BNNBNN 570
    BNBNNN 600
    BBNNNN 630

    Three boosts:
    Probability 14*0.9^5*0.1^3 = 0.826686%
    Average base power = ~919.3 (12870/14)
    Show Hide
    NBNBNBNN 840
    NBNBBNNN 870
    NBBNNBNN 870
    NBBNBNNN 900
    BNNBNBNN 870
    BNNBBNNN 900
    BNBNNBNN 900
    BNBNBNNN 930
    NBBBNNNN 930
    BNBBNNNN 960
    BBNNNBNN 930
    BBNNBNNN 960
    BBNBNNNN 990
    BBBNNNNN 1020

    Four boosts:
    Probability 43*0.9^4*0.1^4 = 0.282123%
    Average base power = ~967.0 (41580/43)
    Show Hide
    NBNBNBNB 840
    NBNBNBBN 870
    NBNBBNNB 870
    NBNBBNBN 900
    NBBNNBNB 900
    NBBNNBBN 930
    NBBNBNNB 930
    NBBNBNBN 960
    BNNBNBNB 870
    BNNBNBBN 900
    BNNBBNNB 900
    BNNBBNBN 930
    BNBNNBNB 900
    BNBNNBBN 930
    BNBNBNNB 930
    BNBNBNBN 960
    NBNBBBNN 930
    NBBNBBNN 960
    BNNBBBNN 960
    BNBNBBNN 990
    NBBBNNNB 930
    NBBBNNBN 960
    BNBBNNNB 960
    BNBBNNBN 990
    NBBBNBNN 990
    NBBBBNNN 1020
    BNBBNBNN 1020
    BNBBBNNN 1050
    BBNNNBNB 930
    BBNNNBBN 960
    BBNNBNNB 960
    BBNNBNBN 990
    BBNBNNNB 990
    BBNBNNBN 1020
    BBBNNNNB 1020
    BBBNNNBN 1050
    BBNBNBNN 1050
    BBNBBNNN 1080
    BBBNNBNN 1080
    BBBNBNNN 1110
    BBNNNNBB 900
    BBNNBBNN 1020
    BBBBNNNN 1140

    Five boosts:
    Probability 48*0.9^3*0.1^5 = 0.034992%
    Average base power = 1035
    Show Hide
    NBNBNBBB 870
    NBNBBNBB 900
    NBBNNBBB 900
    NBBNBNBB 930
    BNNBNBBB 960
    BNNBBNBB 990
    BNBNNBBB 990
    BNBNBNBB 1020
    NBNBBBNB 930
    NBNBBBBN 960
    NBBNBBNB 960
    NBBNBBBN 990
    BNNBBBNB 960
    BNNBBBBN 990
    BNBNBBNB 990
    BNBNBBBN 1020
    NBBBNBNB 990
    NBBBNBBN 1020
    NBBBBNNB 1020
    NBBBBNBN 1050
    BNBBNBNB 1020
    BNBBNBBN 1050
    BNBBBNNB 1050
    BNBBBNBN 1080
    BBNBNBNB 1050
    BBNBNBBN 1080
    BBNBBNNB 1080
    BBNBBNBN 1110
    BBBNNBNB 1080
    BBBNNBBN 1110
    BBBNBNNB 1110
    BBBNBNBN 1140
    NBBBNNBB 960
    BNBBNNBB 990
    NBBBBBNN 1080
    BNBBBBNN 1110
    BBNNNBBB 960
    BBNNBNBB 990
    BBNBNNBB 1020
    BBBNNNBB 1050
    BBNNBBNB 1020
    BBNNBBBN 1050
    BBNBBBNN 1140
    BBBNBBNN 1170
    BBBBNNNB 1140
    BBBBNNBN 1170
    BBBBNBNN 1200
    BBBBBNNN 1230

    Six boosts:
    Probability 20*0.9^2*0.1^6+6*0.9*0.1^6+0.1^6 = 0.00226%
    Average base power = ~1116.7 (30150/27)
    Show Hide
    NBNBBBBB 960
    NBBNBBBB 990
    BNNBBBBB 990
    BNBNBBBB 1020
    NBBBNBBB 1020
    NBBBBNBB 1050
    BNBBNBBB 1050
    BNBBBNBB 1080
    NBBBBBNB 1080
    NBBBBBBX 1110
    BNBBBBNB 1110
    BNBBBBBX 1140
    BBNBNBBB 1080
    BBNBBNBB 1110
    BBBNNBBB 1110
    BBBNBNBB 1140
    BBNBBBNB 1140
    BBNBBBBX 1170
    BBBNBBNB 1170
    BBBNBBBX 1200
    BBBBNBNB 1200
    BBBBNBBX 1230
    BBBBBNNB 1230
    BBBBBNBX 1260
    BBNNBBBB 1050
    BBBBNNBB 1170
    BBBBBBXX 1290

    I hope I didn't make any mistakes in figuring the above out. If the above is accurate, then in the given scenario, Drifloon spamming Ominous Wind will do an average of 173.3 Base Power damage on the first turn, plus STAB. However, note that the 'mere' 120 base power for the 81% chance of getting no boosts drags this average down significantly. It would probably be better to represent the damage output as:
    - 81% chance of 120 Base Power damage, plus STAB
    - 19% chance of an average of 400.4 Base Power damage, plus STAB
    Essentially, you're getting hit with something like STAB Outrage no matter what. However, on a chance approximately equal to Stone Edge's miss chance, you're getting hit with something on the order of three consecutive Draco Meteors all at once, without the stat drops. And with STAB. On the very first turn. That is going to hurt. A lot.

    Also note again that this is only the first turn. Since it is hitting from across the entire room, it is likely to be able to attack again, and this time the boosts apply to all the hits, not just the later ones. I'll work out second turn probabilities later, if I feel like it.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
    Luppy2758 likes this.
  13. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    actually, stat boosts do not cap at +6, but actually +10. OW has 8 PP (or was it 7? PMD has really funky PP numbers), movement speed ranges from -1 to +4 and immunities count for something like 1/4 resist iirc. Regardless, even if you survive you'll be facing down a monster with like +4 or 5 in all his stats and moving at like triple speed. This basically equals to, use a fucking Escape Orb immediately. pronto.

    it's probably the only reason why you shouldn't exchange all your escape orbs for reviver seeds in sky >.>

    also power levels iirc are calculated slightly differently in pmd, things like base power aren't exactly relevant and PP numbers are super funky. i might drag out my EoS to check for bp of moves if i have the time...

    P.S. On another note, try using Shinx. Charge + Discharge is amazing.
    Luppy2758 likes this.
  14. callforjudgement


    Jul 8, 2009
    I actually thought stats cap at +8 in PMD. (Tested by spamming Bulk Up in Zero Isle South when I was about to use a Max Elixir.)

    Also, Movement Speed doesn't normally give bonus attacks; you can only attack once (twice with Unburden) in a turn. However, possibly due to a glitch, if your Movement Speed increases in a turn, you get to move again, so Drifblim does get eight attacks per turn the first time. Only two on subsequent rounds, but by then it's probably too late.

    Escape Orb is overkill for escaping from them, by the way. We're assuming you aren't in range to throw items over than Gravelerocks, but there are several room-affecting orbs that would work: Petrify Orb, Sleep Orb, Foe-Seal Orb, Foe-Fear Orb. (Probably also Confuse Orb; a confused Drifblim will hit itself as well as you with Ominous Wind, and it's likely to KO itself before it KOs you.) There are also seeds that would let you escape if eaten: Warp Seed (probably), Pure Seed (almost definitely, unless the stairs are in the room). Finally, you could use Teleport or Protect.

    And yes, I've noticed that the damage formula is different. Base Power seems to have some effect, but it's very small. Defence stages also work differently: a couple of Bulk Ups can bring Bullet Seed's damage from 30 or so down to 1 or 2, which is definitely impossible in the main series games.
  15. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    i'm pretty sure i was able to charge my shinx 10 times though o.O

    Also other orbs are generally situational: the only Orbs I ever find myself bothering to carry are Escape, Foe-Seal (or whatever, the one that petrifies everything on the floor) and Itemizer, and sometimes I forget to use the latter >.> F-S is the only orb other than Escape and Itemizer worth using, but it's also rare compared to Escape. Besides, you can grind for Escape Orbs in Marowak Dojo lol
  16. JSND


    Jun 28, 2010
    Shinx ? Ergh i got Riolu and decided to go with it....
  17. Blace


    Sep 21, 2012
    The graphics are amazing and I love Mystery Dungeon. (Even though I haven't played past Red Rescue Team, lol.) Hopefully I can grab a 3DS before this comes out in English.
  18. callforjudgement


    Jul 8, 2009
    Escape Orb means you fail the dungeon (you just get to keep your rewards up to that point).

    For story progression or clearing bonus dungeons, it's the worst item in the game, because using it means you can't possibly win that attempt and have to start again.
  19. Buttobi


    Apr 26, 2012
    It isn't that bad. If you have valuable hold items than this item is really good to save you out of trouble. It isn't the best item in the game but isn't the worst either.
  20. Pika25


    Mar 30, 2007
    Moreover, you cannot use Escape Orb if you are branded a thief by the Kecleon after stealing from their shop, unless you use a Pitfall trap or the stairs to move to the next floor. One very important reason for staying close to them while trying to recruit one of those bastards...
  21. Kecleon352


    Nov 1, 2012
    I'm stoked for the new Mystery Dungeon. I'd love to start off as Snivy. :D

    My favorite game was Explorers of Sky because of the new features in the game, like the Spinda Cafe, for example. I always enjoyed watching Spinda spinning around while making the juice. And when I won with the Prize Ticket at Wynaut's Recycling...

    For some reason when I played PMD, I always got Pikachu. But sometimes I've also gotten Shinx & Riolu. I've had my partner be Skitty & Vulpix & Riolu (when I wasn't).

    If there was one Pokémon who I wish I could've gotten, it's Kecleon. I'm both sad and happy that Kecleon is such an ultimate Pokémon. I'm happy because, since Kecleon is my favorite Pokémon, it's great to see him as he is, but I'm sad because it's nearly impossible to recruit him.

    I'm just hoping that it'll be easier to recruit him in the new game. <fingers crossed>
  22. Kyuzeth


    Sep 26, 2010
    Yeah, Kecleon is very hard to recruit, but with all requirements fulfilled in PMD2, then you still have a 0.5% chance. Just don't give up, man. :)
  23. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    generally you shouldn't be stealing from kecleon unless you're prepared to actually steal from kecleon (i.e. bring a pure seed etc)

    and escape orbs are actually pretty decent if you don't want to burn all your reviver seeds (in instances such as having a ridiculously buffed drifloon chasing you down etc) or you're going to die anyway. i always bring along a couple with me for worst-case scenarios.
  24. flojoetheteddiursa


    Jul 29, 2012
    This is the place that I have been looking for. This is where I will post what I have been in each of the games.

    Red Rescue team-Eevee
    Exploerers of time-Munchlax
    Explorers of Darkness-Turtwig
    Exploerers of Sky-Riolu.
  25. JacobNinja


    Aug 5, 2012
    I recall getting my 8th Kecleon on my first attempt in RRT, I did the game more or less entirely with skitty/delcatty. It gets double slap early, which factoring in the OP-ness of multihit moves is incredibly powerful. I think I had maybe 6 Ginsengs on it and could ohko Kecleons. Also, Kecleon was great in joyous tower

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