Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[Baldafor]

I think Cresselia would be an excellent pokemon to go undercover as.

Or even Metagross. I think anything would probably work that doesn't give itself away on the switch in.

Don't worry about feigning resists or abilities (well, Intimidate maybe) and just play it as if it were just a normal pokemon. Remember, they have to guess that it's Zoroark, not you.

For a non-lead, always make sure that Stealth Rock damage is taken into consideration, or spin it away. Feign a spinner like Tentacruel, watch em switch to Rotom-A and eat a Crunch/Dark Pulse. So many options...~babble~

 

[PKMN Trainer Manson]

Zoroark's ability sounds really promising. You could probably really easily screw with people when using him, but you'd have to be smart due to the line up thing. Oh well though; we won't have a really good grasp on how to use it until it comes out.

Oh, unrelated, but earlier in this thread someone linked to something on a wiki page relating to folklore/mythology about some sort of ghost-cat idea for a normal/ghost pokemon. Does anyone know what I'm talking about or what it's called? I just can't remember where it is.

Bakeneko/Nekomata. Though, since this is what Espeon is, I doubt we'd get it again. Then again, we got Munna after Drowzee, so who knows.

 

[Wolfen11]

no one in they right mind would switch a snorlax into a Lucario right? my ass, zoroark show up with illusion, outspeed and ohko with focus blast/close combat/brick break/whatever gamefreak gave to him.

but then this strategy become common so Lucario start to use extremespeed right after SD instead of CC right? but what if i am using the REAL pokemon instead of zoroark? snorlax survived extremespeed and ohkoed with EQ.

This is what worries me. If Illusion becomes too easy to use, we could basically throw the whole concept of countering out the window. Every single time somebody switches something in, you have to wonder if it's the real thing or Zoroark

 

[Flame_Blader1]

I hope they release the starter evo's soon.. really wanna see them.

 

[Lucalibur]

This is what worries me. If Illusion becomes too easy to use, we could basically throw the whole concept of countering out the window. Every single time somebody switches something in, you have to wonder if it's the real thing or Zoroark

ever since gen 4 the word counter dont exist anymore, just look at mence, chomp and quaza(heck, even lucario got no 100% counters, remember gliscor die by ice punch/hp ice), they all can destroy entire teams only by spamming draco meteor(or in chainchomp case, draco meteor+EQ+outrage).


if zoroark become that broken we can just ban him.

 

[bludhoundz]

Zoroark will probably have its best use feigning as a ghost type, because ghost types resist the two types super effective against dark, while dark resists both types super effective against ghost. Thus if the opponent doesn't know your Rotom is a Zoroark, they won't use fighting or bug type moves on you, and when they try ghost or dark type moves they won't end up doing much.

Also he will be unable to fake being a pokemon weak to or resisting SR probably, unless you have spin support.

 

[DDRMaster]

Like I said before, Zoroark really can't switch in and keep its Illusion working because of its frailty. It's going to need a teammate that can use U-turn to get it in without taking too much damage for its Illusion to disappeer.

 

[blasphemy1]

ever since gen 4 the word counter dont exist anymore, just look at mence, chomp and quaza(heck, even lucario got no 100% counters, remember gliscor die by ice punch/hp ice), they all can destroy entire teams only by spamming draco meteor(or in chainchomp case, draco meteor+EQ+outrage).


if zoroark become that broken we can just ban him.

Try Gen I, ;)

We've had broken Pokemon since Amnesia Mewtwo. While this is nothing on the same level as that, I feel like (as others have mentioned) the instability within the metagame and the sheer presence of Zoroark alone will make him broken. You will always have to guess whether it is the real Pokemon or Zoroark, unless it is something obvious like a 'Salamence' only taking 12.5% from Stealth Rock and not Intimidating. But honestly, who is going to use Zoroark like that? Nobody. That'd be like running a DS Uxie or Azelf lead on a stall team; it just isn't practical and doesn't emphasize Zoroark's strengths. Putting him on a team with a Scizor as your #2, or lead and fake a Dragonite, will be extremely useful.

 

[Sandstreamer]

Well, as most of you said, it'll work best as a lead. But the mindgames there are going to be funny. You'll just have to disguise yourself as something slower (and less frail), so your opponent will try to taunt you or lay SR, while you taunt them. =)

But of course, perhaps that scenario won't occur as we'll get our stealth rocks weakened and not as many people will care about laying them down 1st round.... xD

Oh, and to recall metagame predictions: Prior to Gen 4, people said that nobody will run without a spinner because of all the entry hazards. xD

 

[Away]

I think Zoroark will be banned not because of being "broken" but making the game less enjoyable. The metagame just wouldn't be quite as fun with an ability like that. Prediction really becomes guesswork at this point.

 

[DDRMaster]

Many people would argue that Jirachi flinch-haxing most of the metagame makes the metagame less "fun" but that hasn't made it Uber yet. I have a feeling that the only thing that's going to be a problem with Illusion is having noobs complain about how broken it is because they don't know how to play.

 

[blasphemy1]

Many people would argue that Jirachi flinch-haxing most of the metagame makes the metagame less "fun" but that hasn't made it Uber yet. I have a feeling that the only thing that's going to be a problem with Illusion is having noobs complain about how broken it is because they don't know how to play.

Conversely, it will only take a decent player to utilize Zoroark (along with some common sense), which is why I see a problem with it.

 

[Lucalibur]

because those guys are way too lazy and dont understand jirachi does nothing good to the metagame but this is not the place to talk about that(flinch hax is broken).

blasphemy1: maybe, but gen 1 was all fuck up anyway, after gen 1 most stuff had more balance(gen 4 is destroying everything though).

 

[Mark]

Because of Illusion it might be banished to Ubers.

 

[General Tso]

Because of Illusion it might be banished to Ubers.

Under which characteristic though? Doesn't seem like it'd be able to sweep most of the metagame and with those defenses (allegedly) it certainly won't be able to wall most of it so it'd be the support?

 

[blasphemy1]

Under which characteristic though? Doesn't seem like it'd be able to sweep most of the metagame and with those defenses (allegedly) it certainly won't be able to wall most of it so it'd be the support?

I'm not sure the current Uber characteristics will remain intact with Gen V. We don't even know of any changes to mechanics, let alone the possible Pokemon like Zoroark whom don't fall under any of the 3 categories but are still fundamentally broken. We shouldn't let such an arbitrary idea determine the fate of the metagame simply because the Pokemon doesn't fall under "this" characteristic. That said, they are fine for Gen IV, but I have a feeling they will be rewritten come Gen V.

 

[Mark]

Yes. You have a point. Not all pokemon with great abilities are useful. It could just be a gimmick. From the update in the ITT thread, it doesn't look like it has the stats to be an uber either.

 

[Bank$]

I think that's just part of the mountain. Also, anyone have any clue what that random house on an island is going to be?

My guess is someone gives you a HM or some kind of item.

 

[General Tso]

I'm not sure the current Uber characteristics will remain intact with Gen V. We don't even know of any changes to mechanics, let alone the possible Pokemon like Zoroark whom don't fall under any of the 3 categories but are still fundamentally broken. We shouldn't let such an arbitrary idea determine the fate of the metagame simply because the Pokemon doesn't fall under "this" characteristic. That said, they are fine for Gen IV, but I have a feeling they will be rewritten come Gen V.

How broken is it really? Like I said, Zoroark is limited to a certain amount of pokemon he can imitate without giving himself away. Furthermore, his defenses suggest he wouldn't even be able to take STAB neutral attacks. He'll make you think if you have a Dark-weak poke out, but once he uses one or two moves, the jig is up for the rest of the match unless you have a pokemon with almost the same set.

 

[Avocado15]

Many people have been discussing the potential Zoroark has upon entering battle and feigning the existence of one of your other Pokemon X (ie Salamence) before this Pokemon X has been revealed. However I also find it intriguing the possibilities of having this Pokemon X revealed before Zoroark and, as long as it doesn't take damage, Zoroark coming in at some later time with the opponent thinking "I know this Salamence is Specsmence" when in reality it is Zoroark ready to take advantage of these new kind of preconceived notions.

 

[KevlarX290]

Many people have been discussing the potential Zoroark has upon entering battle and feigning the existence of one of your other Pokemon X (ie Salamence) before this Pokemon X has been revealed. However I also find it intriguing the possibilities of having this Pokemon X revealed before Zoroark and, as long as it doesn't take damage, Zoroark coming in at some later time with the opponent thinking "I know this Salamence is Specsmence" when in reality it is Zoroark ready to take advantage of these new kind of preconceived notions.

It won't work with Salamence though because of Intimidate.

 

[SunshineCat]

I'm looking forward to using Zoroark, hopefully it isn't too broken :D

I think we should wait till be know all the new Pokemon, abilities, mechanics etc before deciding "Oh Zoroark is broken because it would be in this metagame" or something :P

 

[blasphemy1]

How broken is it really? Like I said, Zoroark is limited to a certain amount of pokemon he can imitate without giving himself away. Furthermore, his defenses suggest he wouldn't even be able to take STAB neutral attacks. He'll make you think if you have a Dark-weak poke out, but once he uses one or two moves, the jig is up for the rest of the match unless you have a pokemon with almost the same set.

He can disguise himself as:

Azelf, Blissey, Celebi, Electivire, Forretress, Gengar, Gliscor, Heatran, Heracross, Infernape, Jolteon, Kingdra, Mamoswine, Roserade, Rotom-A, Scizor, Skarmory, Smeargle, Snorlax, Starmie, Tentacruel , Umbreon, and Vaporeon.

EDIT: Spikes/Toxic Spikes aren't as common, but Azelf, Forretress, Gengar, Gliscor, Roserade, Rotom-A, Scizor, Skarmory, and Tentacruel are possibilities he may not be able to disguise himself as.

As a lead, he can also disguise himself as:

Breloom, Bronzong, Dragonite, Empoleon, Flygon, Jirachi, Lucario, Machamp, Magnezone, Metagross, Ninjask, Swampert, and Togekiss.

The latter of the two lists is based upon Pokemon who don't give away ability information on turn 1, but take different damage from Stealth Rock than Zoroark. So of course, if Stealth Rock isn't up, these work as well.

On top of this, the transition from RBY to GSC brought us 13 new OU Pokemon, GSC to RSE 8, and RSE to DPP 14. So we can expect around 11 new OU Pokemon from Generation V. Of the current OU Pokemon, 23 of them have no revealing abilities (assuming you come in without being attacked) and take the same damage from Stealth Rock; ~47%. Of the current OU Pokemon, 13 of them have no revealing abilities but take different damage from Stealth Rock; ~27%. So about 73% of the OU metagame can be used successfully to Zoroark's advantage. If we were to apply this directly to Generation V (though this doesn't really mean anything), we would have another 8 Pokemon to use with Zoroark. I'd say that is pretty usable.

 

[Mjolnir]

Gotta say if those stats guesstimated for zoroark are accurate then I am happy.

Ability wise if it doesn't show the transforming animation then I am all for it.

5th gen despite more than likely being my last is shaping to be my favorite one yet. I will hold further self hype with more info, but I am pleased thus far.

 

[Lorenz]

Illusion sounds like a mind-fuck ability and nothing more. Like its been said entry hazard damage and a lack of certain abilities being triggered will be a dead giveaway that you're fighting Zoroark. It'll be something really awesome to screw with people, but once people have seen through it and gotten experience against it I can't see it being a threat.