Pokemon Philosophy: Is abusing the RNG cheating?

[CardsOfTheHeart]

I don't know. Perhaps seeing a Pokemon caught in the year 2066 just makes it look hacked, you know?

Speaking of which, does Nintendo consider such a Pokemon to be hacked? (looking for confirmation, mainly)

 

[Mario With Lasers]

To me, it just looks like somebody wanted to change their DS clock for whatever reason (maybe they're playing The World ends With You and got carried a bit away with the Pin Leveling?).

I don't know about the Nintendo part, unfortunately.

everything. The date usually determines the seed.

I know that, I was saying why would having a different date on the pokémon's summary be important or cheating at all...

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Im just going to say something that may be a little stupid to most of you but to understand it isn't difficult. When you look a competitive video game players, there are always levels of some sort of cheating within the game. Take something like Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Most pros use glitches within the game as a part of the tool of the trade. The same can be said about something like pokemon.

So the acid rain glitch should be implemented on Shoddy?

As for the date a Pokemon was obtained, I doubt Nintendo cares. They'll probably just think the player is a time traveler in Animal Crossing or something. I don't think Nintendo is fond of TTers though.. Hmm, actually now I'm not sure what they would think about Pokemon caught far ahead in the future.

 

[Cathy]

So the acid rain glitch should be implemented on Shoddy?

The correct pursuit and weather mechanics already in shoddy battle 2. That they aren't in shoddy battle 1 is a bug in shoddy battle 1.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

So the acid rain glitch should be implemented on Shoddy?

Acid Rain glitch?

 

[NoloContendere]

Acid Rain glitch?

Couldn't find a definite post on Smogon about it, but here's the best description.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Acid_Rain

 

[mattj]

Oh yeah guys, again, I wasn't saying that changing the date was "bad", and thank you megamewtwo for pointing out that it isn't necessary either. Cards of the Heart had just posted a few definitions, and it looked to me like changing the date fit most of those definitions (again, not that I think it's bad or anything).

Pokemon from the future, that's so great! XD

And trust me, with as many people using PRNGd pokes at the qualifyers and worlds if they didn't like pokes with future dates they would have DQd most of the qualifyers. Plus the guy I talked to who was checking my cart didn't mention them checking for that specifically.

The point I was trying to make though is that changing the date is deceitfully altering the game data which sounds a lot to me like what AR does. Now, how much alteration is "cheating", 5% by changing the date,or 95% by using an AR? I'd say both. Again, not that I think RNG is bad.

And thanks again for all the clarifications.

Oh, and BTW, they have a bit on acid rain in the "sticky" DP research thread I think.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Oh yeah guys, again, I wasn't saying that changing the date was "bad", and thank you megamewtwo for pointing out that it isn't necessary either. Cards of the Heart had just posted a few definitions, and it looked to me like changing the date fit most of those definitions (again, not that I think it's bad or anything).

Pokemon from the future, that's so great! XD

And trust me, with as many people using PRNGd pokes at the qualifyers and worlds if they didn't like pokes with future dates they would have DQd most of the qualifyers. Plus the guy I talked to who was checking my cart didn't mention them checking for that specifically.

The point I was trying to make though is that changing the date is deceitfully altering the game data which sounds a lot to me like what AR does. Now, how much alteration is "cheating", 5% by changing the date,or 95% by using an AR? I'd say both. Again, not that I think RNG is bad.

And thanks again for all the clarifications.

Oh, and BTW, they have a bit on acid rain in the "sticky" DP research thread I think.

What if you "PRNG-abuse" a Pokemon and DON'T change the date? Is that still cheating?

 

[mattj]

What if you "PRNG-abuse" a Pokemon and DON'T change the date? Is that still cheating?

good question.

 

[Dragonight]

Can you RNG abuse in Pearl?

 

[MegaMewtwo]

Can you RNG abuse in Pearl?

This was answered already: you can.

 

[A.ustin]

What would be really interesting is what GameFreak thinks.
Once we know that we could see why they really didn't give Platinum a real RNG.
And what GameFreak thinks of players cracking Plats "RNG"

My Opinion:
I'm not really for using the RNG or not using.
I prefer not using it because I enjoy using some of my free time to train and SR my pokemons myself. And feel proud of them. :)
Though I do use IV Checkers, online ones. Like so many other people have mentioned, AR is changing data; RNG is using data in the game to inform you of how to make that "RNG" not so random. In the end there is no really valid answer, just really strong arguements and views.

I would also have to agree with one person on this thread. I forget who but to say something revalant; "If people don't like RNG, then dont battle and trade with those people, do it with people who endorse the same rules/laws as you do in Pokemon."

Something like that.
Though I switched up some words. Its the Idea.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I am completeley against AR.

 

[danoziami]

When you compete at the VGC with a Pokemon from the past (let's say a Glameow from like, 2000) or future, when they do the "cartridge checks," do they still let you compete, or not?

 

[Dan Dan]

I haven't entered this thread yet, mainly because there's no real need to post here - everyone pretty much agrees that it's not "cheating", except some playing devil's advocate (who don't really have a case at all). The only thing I have an issue with is using save states, VBA and all that bollocks. But then again, I also don't like 100% encounter codes, catch codes, IV check codes, fast egg etc...

 

[Syberia]

When you compete at the VGC with a Pokemon from the past (let's say a Glameow from like, 2000) or future, when they do the "cartridge checks," do they still let you compete, or not?

Yeah, people with weird dates got through just fine. A couple people (IPL and OmegaDonut, I think) got bitched at for having flawless IVs on legends, but they couldn't find anything hacked about them.

 

[Ansem1013]

is it funner abusing the RNG, or just playing the game? I like the randomness, makes my pokemon special and flawed :)
RNG seems like it'd take away a lot of the fun, so cheating or not, I don't use it

 

[MegaMewtwo]

I haven't entered this thread yet, mainly because there's no real need to post here - everyone pretty much agrees that it's not "cheating", except some playing devil's advocate (who don't really have a case at all).

That's a pretty harsh thing to say. You're basically saying that the anti-RNGers are flat out wrong without giving any reason whatsoever.

On a side note, I'm amazed that this has stayed civil. I imagine this topic would've devolved into a flame war anywhere else.

 

[Drez]

I would have to say that, just so long as it's available to everybody, then it is not cheating. Cheating denotes an unlevel playing field, which abusing the RNG does not provide.

 

[danoziami]

Yeah, people with weird dates got through just fine. A couple people (IPL and OmegaDonut, I think) got bitched at for having flawless IVs on legends, but they couldn't find anything hacked about them.

Well, that's a good thing. I mean, if Nintendo/The Pokemon Company is fine with it, I guess everyone else should be, too. Even if you start looking at it from a "moral" viewpoint, you would be left well standing by yourself, because there is nothing you can do about it. It's acceptable, and whether one considers it right or wrong is irrelevant on these competitive forums, although the topic does make for good discussion.

 

[DrLunatic]

"So gamefreak intended for their RNG to be broken and to be manipulated by players.

You're beyond help."


It seems there are two types of gamers;

-Casual:
They usually play the game as the developer intended. Most of the time, when they play in any sort of online encounter against other people, they will stray away from techniques or strategies that seem cheap to them. They will never use a glitch to their advantage. They will never use an exploit to their advantage. Somehow their morality prevents them from using winning strategies in video games, and so they sacrifice their competitive edge to stay "legit". I guess a more appropriate title would have been "Scrubs" since not all casual players are like this.

-Competitive:
You have to use every exploit, glitch, unintended strategy, and overpowered pokemon/moveset as possible. If you don't use it, everyone else will. And you will lose. Hard. All professional gamers from any gaming background will be able to tell you this. Restricting yourself from a good strategy just because the developer did not intend for said strategy to exist or be abused in such a way can only hurt you in the end.


TL;DR version- Use what wins or lose trying to keep your video game honor. It's your choice.

 

[Wichu]

By the way, as was said already, it's perfectly possible to get RNG abused Pokemon with ordinary dates. But this doesn't only apply to bred Pokemon.
The delay between starting up the game/SRing and pressing A on 'Continue' has an identical effect to changing the year. Therefore, by carefully timing that, you can get any Pokemon in any year you want. My brother's hex-flawless Palkia is caught in 2009, in contrast to many others.

 

[metalsnowman3]

Like someone said before, RNG abuse and getting perfect IV pokemon is just like battling on shoddy. The only way it's cheating is if you agree to do a battle with random IVed pokemon and bring in perfect IVed ones. Other than that it is just like battling on a internet program.

Another point I would like to make (and hope this wasn't used earlier) is it takes away from some of the prediction to the game. People in shoddy use exact calculations to find the range of damage they would do, and for super competitive battles that is ok. But for people like me who like to battle more casually, having perfect pokemon is a little boring. It takes away from the fun of trying to estimate how much damage you could do. Knowing exactly how much damage each pokemon will take makes the suspense a little less and, in my opinion (which doesn't matter much), it hurts the game. Knowing exactly how much damage you'll do changes the game a little.

 

[mondocheesemonster]

I believe that RNG-abuse is not cheating per se.

Reason being: People who complain about RNG-abuse can either fight on shoddy or grab perfect IVs Pokes from people via GTS or Smogon.

Let's face it, all the good things in life take some sort of effort. RNG-abuse is just a quicker way to it.

It could be less fulfilling than breeding a perfect Poke, but if time is of the essence who cares.

Comparatively, is steroid use in weightlifting considered cheating? In competitions, many weightlifters do indeed use steroids, or pump in the maximum "legal" amount they can. Are there people who do not use steroids? Sure there are. Are these people complaining? Sure they are. Is the subject controversial? Sure it is.

Can we really find an answer?

What is the meaning of life? Try answering that.

There really is no answer to this question, only a discussion which causes people to arrive at a guided decision/interpretation/view.

 

[Meryl]

I see that Atomic Theory has been quoting my posts here from another forum. >.< Not to mention, failing to quote other important arguments about RNG for you guys to argue for her. This is utterly disappointing on her part. She's been copy-pasting all your arguments (word per word) in our forum with no source given.

Anyway, just to stay on-topic, I don't think RNG is cheating. I think that it's been stated some posts back that Nintendo didn't fuss about the weirdness of some Pokemon (like the dates) since they passed as completely legit anyway.

@MegaMewtwo,
I don't know if you would have found it rude that Atomic Theory argued with us (in our forum) about RNG using everything you said without even sourcing you (when I've been sourcing my bases left and right!! O_o), but anyway, I apologize for the plagiarism, if ever.

 

[User 12783]

everything. The date usually determines the seed.

Also why cant we have outrageous dates when we caught or hatched a pokemon. I would love to have a pokemon to hatch on my birthday but that day is way to far away. Or some kind of funny date like 12/12/2012

It is 12/20/2012.

And RNG abusing isn't cheating, its just that WiFi is no longer needed. The "WiFi-economy" (which didn't exist in the first place) should now just be converted into a free market. Give away Pokemon and take the ones you do not want to bother breeding or catching yourself. Although that would be too much effort, now wouldn't it?