Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

[Jimbo]

I've been searching for item and cloning codes... Haven't found any yet.


Syb get on aim please :D

 

[Dark-Ryu]

yeah, but is there a way to clone pokes without AR? some people don't have AR ;_;

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

So all those new moves are move tutor moves? Like pokes I have trained now in diamond will learn them... ? Like bullet punch scizor for example...

 

[JohtoPro]

Hey back to VW Poliwrath is it confirmed that VW is even a tutor move? It could always be a new Breeding/Level Up move like Scizor's BP...

 

[the_artic_one]

I don't really see the need for Brick Break when he can just be fine with 2 attacks - Bullet Punch and X-Scissor. BB will still do shitty damage to stuff like Skarmory and Forretress.. and X-Scissor is still better against pokemon like Metagross and Jirachi. Might as well give him Quick Attack for fire types that resist his Bullet Punch, or just Baton Pass for scouting... (or Roost)

Wouldn't U-turn be better than baton pass for scouting purposes?

 

[umbarsc]

Only as a Choice Bander. You wouldn't want to lose your +2 boosts whenever you need to use a Bug attack.

 

[Not Scicky]

Hey back to VW Poliwrath is it confirmed that VW is even a tutor move? It could always be a new Breeding/Level Up move like Scizor's BP...

No, it's confirmed as a tutor :S

 

[sims796]

I've been discussing this in another forum, but I feel i should mention it here. forgive me if it's already been discussed, as I am not reading 634 posts.

I don't see why exeryone is freaking out about Lucario with elemental Punches. They are cool for him to have, yeah, but it doesn't make him as game breaking as everyone (on that site, at least) thinks he is. He suffers too much from sub par speed & moveslot syndrome for it be truly effective on him.

Let's try it on each set. Specs is useless.

SD Luke needs the three moves at all times. Close Combat is a given. Swords Dance makes it an SD Luke. Extreme Speed is also needed or else he risks getting revenge killed by Weavile, Azelf, Salamence, hell even Raichu. Plus, he will be easy to just switch in while he's charging up while he uses Swords Dance.

So we have three moves he must use. Now, time for his fourth move. Crunch is my personal favorite. It allows him to take on Cressila, Dusknoir, etc. That leaves him somewhat vurnerable to Gyarados, Salamence, etc. So, he could use Stone Edge. Back to being walled by Cressy, Noir, etc. Either way, he is still stopped cold by Gliscor. So, there is Ice Punch. Sure, Gliscor is no worry, But Salamence can still revenge kill, assuming no rocks are on the field, since Lucario is too slow to use Ice Punch. Plus, you are STILL walled by Cressy. Then there is T-Punch, used soley for Gyarados. Yeah, big help there. Either way, he is stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb, provided they have reasonable HP.

Sorry for the rant, but everyone there keeps geeking out over these improvements as if it breaks the metagame.

Altough, I would like to know, is there a reliable way to beat Salamence with Outrage? I'm not seeing it. Unlike Garchomp, Mence can increase speed as well, so pokes like Weavile aren't even reliable. Plus, not even Choice Banders can stop him. I see it as another Chomp.

 

[Bourbon]

Weavile has Ice Shard anyways :/

but yeah, Porygon2 and Cressilia can kill it easily. Without the Life Orb boost it's far too weak, so Yache Berry is pointless to argue.

 

[sims796]

Oh, thank Godness. So could Donphan with Ice Shard take it down?

I figured that Mence could just use a Yache berry, but you've really put my mind at ease. I thought he would break the metagame, but he does have inferior defenses. And in order to do any real damage, it needs to boost twice, which is suididal. Thanks.

While I;m at it, people keep bumping Dragonite off out of nowhere, but I don't see it happening that easily. Granted, to see Nite in action was rare enough, but I feel his other talents will shine now. He has a Godly movepool, and access to Super Power, which really helps him out, especially on Specs sets. No more relying on Focus Punch.

 

[Lunar]

Bullet Punch and Quick Attack on the same set might actually be useful.

Just going off the Base Power of the moves out of the OU Pokemon who resist Bullet Punch:

Quick Attack deals twice the damage of X-Scissor:
Infernape

Quick Attack and X-Scissor do the same damage:
Gyarados Heatran Lucario Skarmory Tentacruel Zapdos

X-Scissor deals twice the damage of Quick Attack:
Electivire Forretress Jolteon Magnezone Milotic Scizor Suicune Swampert Vaporeon

X-Scissor deals 4x the damage of Quick Attack:
Bronzong Jirachi Metagross Starmie

Keep in mind that Bullet Punch out damages Quick Attack against the following Pokemon:
Bronzong Forretress Jirachi Lucario Metagross Scizor Skarmory

EDIT: Missed Infernape's fighting type

 

[gorm]

He may be saying "don't generalize" or something, but it's more likely that he's talking about his own RMT from like February.

eh i don't think it's a generalization when it's on each and every single one of the probable top ten, what ever they may be but stuff like husk ipl raikoulover (yes i like his alot!) jabba taylor etc etc..

Just because they have garchomp doesn't mean they can't function without one . . . besides, a lot of sweepers have gotten even stronger, and there's Shaymin to think of now too (assuming it can stay in OU).

i'm well aware that there are more than 6 sweepers in OU. But with a banned garchomp they do lose the advantage of a set that cannot be countered (unlike skymin imo)

Have you ever fought my Moonlit Kiss team?

the one with cress AND bliss? maybe we have a different definition of offensive lol

 

[Olie]

@Lunar

What about Gengar?
The sole reason I run both Bullet Punch and Extremespeed on Lucario is so I do not get walled by Gengar.

 

[Lunar]

@Lunar

What about Gengar?
The sole reason I run both Bullet Punch and Extremespeed on Lucario is so I do not get walled by Gengar.

Gengar doesn't resist Bullet Punch, so it wasn't part of my comparison.

Even if he had a Steel resist, Bullet Punch would still do more damage against Gengar than X-Scissor, and obviously, QA and Brick Break.

EDIT: Because it just occurred to me that not all of the conversation had carried so far, those comparisons are based on the Scizor: Bullet Punch/Sword Dance/Roost/??? set. It assumes your primary plan is to use Sword Danced Bullet Punches (at 90 BP with Technician+STAB), with another move to cover whatever resists you. Brick Break and X-Scissor were the early suggestions with X-Scissor favored. QA was the most recent suggestion, so I ran a comparison of QA vs XS.

 

[wDro]

Scizor needs brick break to prevent magnezone from destroying scizor.

 

[Crooked]

Does Jolteon get Magnet Rise?

 

[Chou Toshio]

i'm well aware that there are more than 6 sweepers in OU. But with a banned garchomp they do lose the advantage of a set that cannot be countered (unlike skymin imo)

>.> I wasn't a big user of YacheChomp on my offensive teams. I used that set more on balanced teams and ScarfChomp on Offensive. For me, Yache wasn't a great team-player on offensive teams. He was more of a one-man show regardless. Scarfchomp was the set that was easier to use for taking down specific targets that posed a threat to the overall team's sweep. In that sense, I don't think the loss of an "uncounterable set" is that great. The job of the well built offensive team is to first break down the opponent's defense, and then hopefully a number of your members become viable for the sweep. My opinion anyway.

 

[c l e a r]

so now the game is "out", can you use the new forms of anyone over wifi?

 

[Chou Toshio]

New moves from my party (snowpoint tutor):

Infernape:
-Snore
-Helping Hand
-Swift

Scizor:
-Snore
-Swift

Gengar:
-Snore
-Spite
-Uproar

Garchomp:
-Snore
-Swift

Crobat:
-Snore
-Swift
-Uproar

Ok this guy is really boring. At least swift is being whored out for those few special-oriented technician users who can make use of it (persion/ambipom only I guess).

 

[jujuomi]

Ok this guy is really boring. At least swift is being whored out for those few special-oriented technician users who can make use of it (persion/ambipom only I guess).

Togekiss and noctowl might be able to use it. Considering (except tri-attack) none of these two birds don't have a normal special STAB.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Only we wifi-players will care much about togekiss though. >.>

 

[Legacy Raider]

It seems that Snore is available to all pokes, not just Burmy (lol). Is the only way to find accurate data on all the things that can learn the new tutor moves by testing each and every one of them? Or can the game code be analysed for the moves?

 

[bolt.]

Only we wifi-players will care much about togekiss though. >.>

I don't see why you would want swift over coverage. You can't even get hax off of it.

 

[Chou Toshio]

well yeah. Swift is pretty meh on togekiss no matter how you look at it. >.>

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Trait: Sticky Hold
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Sp. Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Recover

Good to see the slug gets Earth Power.