1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers - Mark II

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Mekkah, Jul 21, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Oh hey guys sorry I haven't done my Psyduck indepth write up yet. Been a bit of drama at home but I'll be sure to have it done by at least the en of the week.

    On the subject of Flareon, in Yellow it has Quick Attack instead of Tackle, which has slightly higher power but priority. Being able to go first helped me when I was grinding it in Erika's gym.
  2. Naix

    Naix

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    376
    Slowpoke Revamp (open)
    [​IMG]
    Slowpoke - Mid Tier
    -Availability: Slowpoke can be caught in Seafoam Islands, and its levels vary from 28 to 33, but keep in mind that if you're playing Blue, it'll only appear on the ground floor, and at level 28, and it's notably harder to find (5% encounter as opposed to 15%). However, if you're lucky/patient enough, you might encounter a level 37 or 39 Slowbro, which is mostly caught up to the rest of your team. Slowbro also appear in Blue and Yellow, but it's a 1% (as opposed to 4% in Red) encounter in both games and Slowbro will only be level 31 in Yellow.
    -Stats: If there's anything Slowpoke's known for, that would be its pathetic Speed that that causes it to be outsped by almost everything. When it evolves, its Speed improves to "half the game outspeeding you" as opposed to "almost all of the game outspeeding you". Its Defense also becomes quite respectable, and its Special (which is quite meager as a Slowpoke) becomes more usable.
    -Movepool: Slowpoke has a surprisingly large movepool which not only includes standards such as Surf and Ice Beam, but less likely options like Earthquake and even Fire Blast! However, the jewel in Slowpoke's movepool is Amnesia, which is essentially 2 Calm Minds in one turn. It gets it a bit late, though, at level 44 (level 40 if you can bear with Slowpoke not evolving for 3 more levels. Unfortunately, Slowbro doesn't have much else in its movepool (it learns Psychic naturally, but at level 55 which it shouldn't normally be at before the end of the game), making it reliant on TMs to fight adequately, and the TMs it desires are Blizzard/Ice Beam and Psychic, both of which are exclusive and as such will have competition from others.
    -Power: Simply put, Slowpoke, with its average bulk and awful Speed mean that it won't exactly be doing well until it evolves. Slowbro, on the other hand, is quite decent, although its still poor speed combined with its Special not being high enough to OHKO enemies with neutral hits hurts it somewhat.
    -Type: Slowpoke and Slowbro have 2 of the best types in the game, with Psychic hitting the remaining Rockets super-effectively and only being resisted by fellow Psychic-types, most of which can be set up on with Amnesia. Being a Water-type also gives Slowbro the ability to breeze past Fire-types and Ground-types without having to waste Psychic's PP.
    -Match-ups: This list is assuming you caught Slowpoke (or Slowbro) at the Seafoam Islands, which is why Koga is not listed.
    --Sabrina: Slowbro can deal with all of her Pokemon easily, with the exception of Alakazam, who, thanks to RBY's AI, will repeatedly use Recover, which heals more damage than Surf deals, meaning that if you plan on having Slowbro take her on by itself, it should know Amnesia beforehand (which is not likely if you evolved it immediately). Setting up in Yellow is far less doable, at least against her Abra, as due to the aforementioned AI, it will use Flash over and over... and over... and over... Fortunately, the only non-Psychic-type attack Kadabra and Alakazam knows is Recover, allowing for an easy setup against them.
    --Blaine: The outcome of this fight should be obvious, taking type-match up alone into account, and this is true in Red and Blue, with Slowbro's high defense allowing it to take repeated Normal-type attacks with ease. In Yellow, though, his Ninetales knows Confuse Ray and will use it often. The rest of his team is easily beaten.
    --Giovanni: First of all, the only Pokemon in his party that's not hit super-effectively is Persian in Yellow. Secondly, while his Nidos in Yellow know Thunder, it's nothing an Amnesia or two beforehand cand remedy. Third of all, Slowbro's Defense allows it to take a good amount of Earthquakes. Watch out for Dugtrio in Yellow, as it knows Fissure and is easily faster than Slowbro.
    --Lorelei: Her Pokemon can't significantly harm Slowbro, easily allowing it to get to +6, and it needs to be at least at +4 to beat her Slowbro. Once her Slowbro is down, the rest of the fight should finish quickly.
    --Bruno: Well, considering the fact that his Onix are demolished with the drop of a hat and that Slowbro has high Defense and resists Fighting-type moves...
    --Agatha: Her Pokemon are all faster than Slowbro, and RBY's AI happens to register that Ghost-type moves are super-effective against Psychic-types, so if you're having Slowbro fight her Ghost-types, expect to get constantly confused. Also, her first Gengar in Yellow knows Mega Drain. Arbok and Golbat are manageable, but still frustrating to fight against.
    --Lance: His team is faster than you, and while Slowbro can take two Hyper Beams, it needs to set up in order to seriously harm his Pokemon, especially if it doesn't know Ice Beam or Blizzard. In Yellow, things are harder for Slowbro, as Lance's second Dragonair and his Dragonite know SE attacks, which while they can be stomached with enough Amnesias, Slowbro will need to be at +6 for them to do less than Hyper Beam.
    --Rival: Slowbro can easily set up on Pidgeot and proceed to plow through his team, with the exception of Venusaur, which is only on his team if you started with Squirtle, and if you did that, there would be almost no reason to use Slowpoke. In Yellow, his Sandslash knows Toxic and Sand Attack, making setting up on it inadvisable. However, Slowbro can set up on his Alakazam and do the same thing to his team that it would in Red and Blue, with the roadblocks being a Ninetales that knows Confuse Ray and a Jolteon that has a ~23% critical hit rate.
    -Additional comments: Slowpoke has a bit of a slow start, but after it evolves, it becomes a solid Pokemon that can beat a good amount of the game's remaining bosses. Of course, its middling Speed is a definite problem that causes it to be worn down faster than other potential team members despite its high Defense and decent Special.

    So there's Slowpoke! Now there are only 3 more Pokemon whose entries I'll be going to fix (and those are Clefairy, Electabuzz, and Drowzee, for those of you who are wondering). Expect Clefairy to be next.

    EDIT: I got Clefairy done now. Here it is:
    Clefairy Revamp (open)
    [​IMG]
    Clefairy - Low Tier
    -Availability: Clefairy can be caught in Mt. Moon, but are quite uncommon there (highest encounter rate in Red and Blue is 6%). Their levels range around 10, with 8 being the lowest and 12 being the highest. They evolve through the use of a Moon Stone, 2 of which happen to be in Mt. Moon, the place where you find Clefairy in the first place! The first one is in the northwest corner of the first floor, and the second is in the bottom floor, hidden 4 steps below and 6 steps to the right of the Super Nerd.
    Of course, if you don't want to go on a Clefairy hunt but still want one on your team, you could buy one in the Rocket game corner for a low cost that you should be able to afford (500 coins in Red, 750 coins in Blue, not there in Yellow), but it'll be underleveled in comparison with the rest of your team when you get it meaning you're better off looking for them in Mt. Moon earlier on in the game.
    You can evolve Clefairy whenever you want, but it's recommended that you do so once you get a Moon Stone, as Clefairy's level-up movepool leaves quite a bit to be desired.
    -Stats: Clefable's stats are average in many areas, with the exception being HP, which is high enough for Clefable to take repeated hits. Unfortunately, its lowest stat (aside from its "good enough" Speed) is its Attack, meaning that despite getting STAB off of Normal-type attacks, Clefable won't have much business using them as opposed to a move from its vast special movepool, such as Thunderbolt or Fire Blast.
    -Movepool: Clefairy's level-up movepool is, simply put, bad. Moonlight, the only reason why people would delay evolving Clefairy, doesn't exist yet, thus leaving absolutely no reason for not evolving it immediately outside of "I'm also using a Nidoran and don't know where the hidden Moon Stone is". The problem with this, though, is that because Clefable learns no moves by level-up, making it completely dependant on TMs to keep up. Among these TMs are Water Gun, Mega Punch, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and more, but the problem with all of this is that the TMs that benefit Clefable the most are one-time use TMs (Yes, Mega Punch can be purchased in Celadon City, but by then your Pokemon should have equally powerful/more powerful alternatives for it.), and as such Clefable will face competition for a large amount of them. However, Water Gun is almost necessary early on if you want Clefable to be useful for Mt. Moon and Rock Tunnel. Mega Punch is also quite helpful as a general attacking moves.
    -Power: Clefable is quite good in the first half of the game if you give it the right support (read: Water Gun, Mega Punch, Moon Stone), but after Rock Tunnel, Clefable quickly fades into obscurity as it stays the same (unless you use more one-time TMs on it) while everybody around it gets better.
    -Type: Normal could be considered the "blank slate" of all the typings, being weak to only Fighting-type attacks, which only comes into play for 2 battles in the entire game, and one of them is optional, while it has no resistances or immunities save for Lick (The other Ghost-type moves, Night Shade and Confuse Ray, aren't affected by type match-ups), which is only appears in Pokemon Tower.
    -Match-ups: The following match-ups are assuming you taught Clefable at least Mega Punch, as it does dismally against all of them otherwise.
    --Misty: Clefable has the bulk to take 3 Bubblebeams from Starmie (assuming none of them crit, of course) and its Mega Punch is powerful enough to beat Starmie in 3 hits, meaning that if Starmie messes around by using Tackle or the like, Clefable wins.
    --Lt. Surge: As with Misty, Clefable can withstand 2 Thunderbolts from Raichu and 2HKO back with Mega Punch. The problem is, Raichu's obviously faster, so Clefable either has to get lucky with a crit or Raichu has to use Growl or Thunder Wave.
    --Erika: Cefable's slower than her Victreebel, so it's inevitably going to get trapped by Wrap if it chooses to use it. Tangela and Vileplume are more manageable, especially if Clefable knows Ice Beam. Watch out for Sleep Powder from Vileplume, though.
    --Koga: Simply put, if Clefable knows Psychic, it wins, but not smoothly. If it doesn't know Psychic, Koga wins.
    --Sabrina: Clefable can beat all of her Pokemon by itself with the exception of Alakazam. It can do decently against it if it didn't fight anything else in her party, but doesn't have a guaranteed victory over it.
    --Blaine: Fire Blast can hurt a bit, but Clefable should still be able to beat Growlithe and Ponyta by itself.
    --Giovanni: Clefable needs Bubblebeam to stand a chance against him, as Water Gun just does not have enough power behind it to OHKO even his Rhyhorn. Of course, you shouldn't expect Bubblebeam to OHKO either of his Nidos, but at least it's better than only getting a 3HKO against them. In Yellow, his Nidoqueen and Rhydon can actually pose an offensive threat, making things overall more dangerous for Clefable, who will get worn down quite quickly when fighting Dugtrio and Persian alone.
    --Lorelei: For Clefable to beat her, you need 3 things:
    1. Thunderbolt
    2. An X Special
    3. At least 2 Hyper Potions.
    --Bruno: Watch out for Hi Jump Kick from Hitmonlee and Submission from Machamp. Bruno's Onix are pathetic and Hitmonchan can be easily dealt with if you don't use Mega Punch, Strength, or any other Normal-type attack, as it can Counter it back at you.
    --Agatha: Her Ghosts take pathetic damage from all of Clefable's possible attacks (except for Psychic, of course) while Arbok (in Yellow) knows Wrap, which can trap Clefable for an extended period of time, meaning the only Pokemon Clefable should even consider taking on is Golbat.
    --Lance: While Clefable's bulk allows it to take a non-critical Hyper Beam from any of his Pokemon, it can't really do much back to them unless you taught it Thunderbolt (for Gyarados) or Ice Beam/Blizzard (for everything else).
    --Rival: Whatever Clefable can beat can be easily accomplished by almost every fully evolved Pokemon in the game, so its performance against him isn't too impressive (for those of you wondering, it can beat Pidgeot, Rhydon, and Exeggutor).
    -Additional Comments: Simply put, Clefable is one of those Pokemon that's good early on in the game, but falters mid-game and never gets out of its slump. It also needs a large amount of support to be good, and its rarity certainly doesn't help matters much.

    @Hemp Man
    Thank you for pointing that out. That has been included in the Flareon revamp.
  3. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Psyduck - Mid Tier
    -Availability: Psyduck can be caught at Seafoam Islands or using Super Rods at certain Routes. Both Seaform Islands and Super Rod are only accessible around Koga, so mid-late game. In Yellow, he is found by Surfing Route 6.
    -Stats: Golduck's stats can be described as "Jack of all Trades, Master of None." All his stats are good, but none of them particularly stand out.
    -Movepool: Golduck's movepool is pretty much the same as most water types. It can get by on STAB Surf, Ice Beam/Blizzard TM, and Strength for Physical Coverage. Golduck also learns Confusion via levelup, but Confusion has a low base power means that even a STAB Surf will do more damage than a Super Effective Confusion most of the time.
    -Power: As a Psyduck, it doesn't hit hard at all. However, the ones at Seaform Island can be caught at level high enough that it will evolve into Golduck fast. Golduck is good at taking foes out.
    -Type: Water. Water is a great type to get in the late-game, as it hits the final two gyms for Super Effective. Water is weak to Grass and Electric, but those moves are not common in the later parts of Red and Blue.
    -Match-ups:
    --Sabrina: Her Pokemon have powerful Special stats that wear fast. Golduck can stay in against Venomoth, but don't expect a sweep here.
    --Blaine: Golduck resists Fire, and his STAB Surf hits Blaine's entire team for Super Effective damage.
    --Giovanni: Giovanni's whole team is weak to Water, so Surf will take them out easily. In Yellow, this match will be tougher due to his Persian not being weak to Water, and his Nidoqueen/Nidoking having Thunder.
    --Lorelei: With the exception of Jynx her whole team resists Water and is good at taking Physical Attacks/Ice moves. So don't use Golduck unless its a last resort.
    --Bruno: Surf OHKO's both Onix, and easily deposes of his Fighting Pokemon due to their weak Special.
    --Agatha: Golbat and Arbok are manageable, but her Ghosts have high Specials and can wear you down easily.
    --Lance: Aerodactyl is weak to Water and the Dragons go down to Ice Moves. Gyarados can take Golduck's attacks and packs a powerful Hyper Beam, so have a teammate eliminate Gyarados before attempting a Golduck sweep. Keep in mind in Yellow version, one of his Dragonair's and his Dragonite have Thunderbolt and Thunder
    --Rival: Golduck can beat Pidgeot, Rhydon, Exeggutor (with an Ice attack), and his Fire Pokemon (either Charizard or Arcanine). However Alakazam, Venusaur, and his Water types can be problematic for Golduck.
    In Yellow, Golduck can beat Exeggutor, Sandslash, Ninetails, Vaporeon and Flareon. It loses to Jolteon, Magenton, Alakazam, and Cloyster.
    -Additional Comments: As you can see, Golduck seems like a generic in-game Water type. What makes Golduck excel so well it comes at the right time and at the right moment. It comes at a time where Water becomes a highly relevant type, with the Fire and Ground bosses being at the late game. Overall, Golduck doesn't really anything that makes it stand out compared to other Water Pokemon, but it fulfills the niches of a Water Pokemon well.

    And I rewrote my Venusaur write-up too:
    Bulbasaur (RB) - Top Tier
    -Availability: Starter Pokemon
    -Stats: Above Average, his high Special works well with Razor Leaf’s critical hit ratio.
    -Movepool: Bulbasaur mostly gets Grass and Normal moves to work with, which isn’t too bad as only Gengar resists both of them. Razor Leaf is probably the best Grass move for him to work with, where as Body Slam/Double-Edge TM’s give him normal coverage.
    Venusaur can also try a Growth + Mega Drain, but probably isn’t the suitable Grass type for this set due to learning Sleep Powder at such a late level.
    -Power: Venusaur’s high Special and Razor Leaf’s CH ratio will hit anything that doesn’t resist it hard.
    -Type: Grass/Poison. While Grass gives him the advantage over early gym leader, its STAB is resisted by many types. Most notable the abundance of Poison types in this game resist Razor Leaf, putting a damper on its power.
    -Match-ups:
    --Brock: Vine Whip is 4x Super Effective on his Pokemon and should take them out easily.
    --Misty: Grass resists Water, and Ivysaur’s Vince Whip can take out Staryu and Starmie.
    --LT Surge: Ivysaur resists Electric, meaning he can take a hit here. Surge’s Pikachu and Raichu both know Thunder Wave, so outside of Paralyze Hax, you should be fine.
    --Erika: Erika's Pokemon resist Grass, so it will need a strong normal move such as Body Slam or Double-Edge if it wants to hold its own. Even if you have a strong normal move, Victreebel still might be a tough fight due to Sleep Powder + Wrap. Tangela can take a hit, but he can’t do much back to Venusaur. Vileplume is completely walled by Venusaur.
    --Koga: Posion resists Grass, and his Pokemon have good Defense to take a Normal move. However, his Pokemon don’t really have the best movesets and Razor Leaf spam can wear down his team.
    --Sabrina: Venusaur is weak to Psychic meaning he wont be able to accomplish much here. Also, Venusaur is actually weak to Bug in RBY, so even Venomoth threatens Venusaur.
    --Blaine: A strong normal move can take out Ponyta and Growlithe, but Rapidash outspeeds you and can Fire Spin trap you. Blaine’s Arcanine knows Fire Blast, which Venusaur wont enjoy taking at all.
    --Giovanni: Razor Leaf will easily dispose of Rhyhorn, Rhydon, and Dugtrio. Nidoqueen and Nidoking are not weak to Razor Leaf, but Venusaur can still take them out 1-1.
    --Lorlelei: Venusaur is weak to Ice, but if you are at an appropriate level, Razor Leaf will make short work of Dewgong, Cloyster, and Slowbro. Jynx however isn’t weak to Grass, and Lapras has the bulk to take a Razor Leaf and retaliate with Blizzard.
    --Bruno: Razor Leaf sweeps his whole team due to Brunos’ Pokemon having low Special.
    --Agatha: Her entire team resists Grass, and the Ghosts even resist your Normal Moves.
    --Lance: Due to the AI always going for Super Effective hits, his Dragonairs and Dragonites will only use Agility/Barrier and Venusaur can take them. Gyarados has a powerful Hyper Beam, but Venusaur resists his Hydro Pump and can wear him down with Razor Leaf. Aerodatyl is also another powerful user of Hyper Beam, but his low Special means Razor Leaf will make short work of him.
    --Gary: On a positive note, Rhydon is OHKO’d by a Grass move. Gary’s Exeggutor doesn’t know Psychic so Venusaur can beat him with a strong normal move. Venusaur resists Gyarados’s Hydro Pump, just watch out for Hyper Beam. However, Pidgeot resists Grass and Sky Attack will either make you switch out or be fainted. Alakazam outspeeds Venusaur and destroys it with Psychic. Charizard can also take you out with Fire Blast.
    -Additional Comments: Much like Charmander and Squirtle, Bulbasaur is a great in-game starter Pokemon. It excels in the beginning due to its type advantage over Gyms. Although Grass as a type starts to lose value as the game goes on, at that point you’ll have team mates to make sure you are not fully dependent on your starter. Towards the end of the game Grass makes a comeback due to the Ground gym and the abundance of Water types around. Overall, you can’t really go wrong with any starter in Red & Blue, and Bulbasaur is no exception to this.
  4. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Just skimmed all these write ups and I think they're all fine. Not really much to do to improve them beyond pointless nitpicks.

    @ Hemp Man: I'm fine with RB Golduck in High (as long as it is above Low then it's all good), but could I just ask how useful you found having Physical moves on Golduck? Like, did you use them much?
  5. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Basically I used Strength on stuff like the Psychic Pokemon. I tried using it on Lorelei and took out Dewgong but Cloyster kept walling me. Either way, you'll be probably find yourself having room to slap on the HM.

    Actually, I will remove the Body Slam mention, that TM is too high in demand for it to go to Golduck.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Ok. I was mainly asking because we have Seadra in Mid, who has a noticably higher Special, and the only advantage Golduck has over Seadra is better physical attacking capabilities (in terms of both stats and movepool). However, if you don't use them much at all then it would be weird to put Golduck above Seadra.

    But there are a lot of pokemon that are either Water or Psychic type late game so I suppose it's ok. I can't imagine Seadra getting that many notable kills that Golduck couldn't anyway.
  7. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,026
    Golduck in High doesn't feel right, but I haven't really tested it. I think it's closer to Seadra than to anything in High.
  8. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    I just read the first page of the Horsea anaylsis, and it seems like who wrote that used the Super Rod to get a Level 15 when, when they could have just caught a Level 30 Horsea at Seaform Island. Sure, Seaform means you'll have to skip Koga, but I think the extra 15 levels, and having evolution much faster makes up for it.

    I am fine with moving Golduck to Mid if you guys want though.
  9. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,026
    It's Seafoam islands btw, not Seaform.
  10. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Um, okay. Well I do agree it seems closer to Horsea than whats in High Tier, so I moved it down to Mid.

    Speaking of which, the first page has Flareon for low, but Naix placed him for Mid. Thoughts on that?
  11. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    If we are putting RB Psyduck in Mid, I think we should just merge Yellow Psyduck with it and be done with it, mainly to save time. Yellow Psyduck only means like an extra 1 hour of grinding or so (there are many great places to grind it easily) and we've been fairly conservative with making split entries for other pokemon up to this point anyway.

    I haven't used Flareon much but in theory I see Flareon as worse than Charizard and Arcanine, but better than Ninetales and Magmar, so I guess Mid is fine?
  12. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    I used Flareon in Yellow, and I'm fine with him being in mid too.

    Okay, I guess I can add Yellow to Psyduck. The match ups arent that different for him...the rival battle changes and I should mention that Lance's Dragonite and Dragonair have an Electric move.
  13. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    233
    @Naix , there should be two Moon Stones in Mt. Moon, though one is hidden (just before you reach that Fossil Nerd, check the rock nearby). Just a minor nitpick on your Clefairy post.
  14. Naix

    Naix

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    376
    It took longer than it should've, but the Drowzee revamp is done!
    Drowzee Revamp (open)
    [​IMG]
    Drowzee - Mid Tier
    -Availability: Drowzee are at Route 11, at levels 9-15 in Red and Blue and at 15-19 in Yellow. The chance of finding them is 1-in-4, so you don't have to worry about scouring the Route for hours on end looking for them. They evolve at level 26, which is when you should be either fighting the last trainers on the S.S. Anne or approaching Rock Tunnel.
    -Stats: Unfortunately, Drowzee's uncomfortably slow and (physically) weak. Thankfully, its impressive Special makes up for its Speed somewhat. When Drowzee evolves, it can outspeed most Pokemon in the game that aren't considerably fast (or in the possession of a Gym Leader/Elite Four member). Its Special also gets a nice boost, and its increased Defense means that if it fails to OHKO its opponent (which is a fair assumption considering how late it gets Psychic), it won't have to worry about counterattacks as much.
    -Movepool: Unless you're playing Yellow and caught it at level 17 or higher, Drowzee won't know Confusion, having only the pathetic Pound with which to harm others. Headbutt is usable, but is only useful for fellow Psychic-types, as they usually have high Special and resist Psychic-type attacks, not to mention Hypno's Special is far greater than its Attack. Also, Hypno doesn't learn Psychic naturally until level 37, so teaching it that via TM29 isn't completely unreasonable. Drowzee also knows Hypnosis from the moment you catch it, but its unreliable accuracy means that it's far from necessary.
    -Power: As mentioned above, Drowzee won't know Confusion until level 17, so until then, it has to 6HKO its enemies with Pound. Once it knows Confusion, it starts to do adequately, and when it evolves, it gets even better, but despite this, its Confusion has a tendency not to OHKO things that aren't weak to it. Psychic, whether it be at level 37 or when you first enter Saffron City, fixes this problem and allows it to deal heavy damage to anything that's not a fellow Psychic-type. Unfortunately, Hypno doesn't do as well as Mr. Mime or Abra in Pokemon Tower, mainly due to it being slower than the numerous Gastly and Haunter, and some of them tend to go for the Confuse Ray on the first turn, and their high Special allows them to survive a Confusion more often than not.
    -Type: Psychic is well known for being the best type back in the day, and not having a second type isn't the end of the world, as Psychic-type attacks have great coverage on their own, only being resisted by fellow Psychic-types, who can't do much to Hypno in return.
    -Match-ups: While you could just use Hypnosis against everybody, these match-ups will assume you don't use it.
    --Lt. Surge: You can handle him in Red and Blue if Drowzee's evolved by this point. In Yellow, however, Mega Punch and Mega Kick leave marks regardless of whether it's a Drowzee or Hypno you're using.
    --Erika: Victreebel/Weepinbell is faster than Hypno and can trap it continuously with Wrap. The rest of her team is much easier to deal with, just watch out for Sleep Powder. Getting Hypno statused prior to the battle, which shouldn't be too much of a problem considering the fact that half of the Gym's trainers know status-inducing moves, prevents the threat of Sleep Powder and allows Gloom/Vileplume to be pulverized. Keep in mind that if Hypno gets paralyzed, it's vulnerable to Bind from Tangela.
    --Koga: Hypno should have Psychic by this point, but even Confusion has enough power to OHKO his Koffings. Psychic, however, is needed to OHKO his Muk and Weezing, and greatly helps its performance against him in Yellow, although it never really struggles against him in the first place.
    --Sabrina: Hypno resists Psychic-type attacks, causing Sabrina's Pokemon to use everything but Psychic-type moves, allowing Hypno to Headbutt them until they're down. Alakazam, though, is a problem, as Recover its its only non-Psychic-type attack, meaning it will endlessly spam it, healing off more than Headbutt will do. There are 2 possible solutions to this, but neither are efficient: the first being to use Disable (which Hypno knows when you catch it) and hope it disables Recover, or to use Meditate (which is learned at level 43) so Headbutt does more than Recover heals.
    --Blaine: Fire Spin is annoying, as is Confuse Ray from Ninetales (only appears in Yellow), but Hypno does decently against him otherwise.
    --Giovanni: Everything on his team, save for Persian in Yellow and Dugtrio. Hypno can beat them one-on-one, but not both of them in the same match.
    --Lorelei: Hypno doesn't do too poorly against her, but Slowbro and Lapras can comfortably take whatever Hypno throws at them.
    --Bruno: Ignoring the Onix because they're terrible, Hypno can take on all of his Fighting-types, at least assuming Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee don't use Mega Punch and Mega Kick, respectively.
    --Agatha: Her Ghosts and Golbat know Confuse Ray and are faster than Hypno, potentially leading to a very frustrating battle.
    --Lance: Hypno can take a Hyper Beam from his Dragonair, but nothing else on his team. As such, Hypno can beat one of his Dragonair, but good luck defeating anything else on his team with it.
    --Rival: To make things short: Pidgeot, Rhydon, and Venusaur are easily beaten. Hypno vs. Alakazam results in a stalemate, due to Alakazam's only Normal-type attack being Recover. Exeggutor can be beaten, but it'll take a while. Arcanine, Magneton, Vaporeon, and Jolteon can be troublesome but still manageable provided Hypno doesn't take too much damage against others. Finally, Fire Spin and Clamp make Ninetales and Cloyster infuriating, and Sandslash's, Gyarados's, and Flareon's Attack makes having Hypno fight them inadvisable.
    -Additional Comments: Drowzee is a good Pokemon, but one who has competition with Abra and Mr. Mime, the former of which comes earlier and has better stats, and the latter gains boosted exp due to being a traded Pokemon. However, Drowzee is much easier to obtain than its competition, as Abra Teleports away on the first turn and Mr. Mime requires either an Abra or a Clefairy, depending on the version, while Drowzee has a decent chance to appear and it doesn't Teleport away from battle. Of course, its forgettable start also hampers it somewhat, but its solid match-ups against the game's bosses makes up for it.

    I'm sorry I haven't done Electabuzz yet, but I promise I will as soon as I get the time to do it.

    EDIT: Electabuzz is now done!
    Electabuzz Revamp (open)
    [​IMG]
    -Electabuzz (Red only) - Mid Tier
    -Availability: Electabuzz can only be found at the Power Plant, meaning you need to have beaten Koga to access it, and you need to noticeably out of the way, as you can't directly Fly to Route 10's Pokemon Center like you can in later generations. Electabuzz themselves aren't the most common encounter (5%) and they can tend to be more stubborn than others when it comes to actually being caught, on par with that of Onix. Also, Electabuzz appear at levels 33-36.
    -Stats: Statistically, Electabuzz is very similar to Raichu, but with (slightly) better Speed at the cost of some Attack. This poses a problem for Electabuzz, as Raichu can be caught as early as Viridian Forest (as a Pikachu, of course), which is before the first Gym, while Electabuzz is completely unavailable until after the fifth.
    -Movepool: Electabuzz's movepool is slightly larger than that of fellow Electric-types and includes moves such as Thunderpunch (which is essentially a weaker but still Thunderbolt) and Psychic. Electabuzz also learns dual screens, but it has to wait until level 49 for Light Screen, and you should either be fighting the Elite Four or have beaten the game by that point.
    -Power: If given Thunderbolt, Electabuzz acts almost entirely the same as Raichu would, due to their similar stats and typing, but if given Psychic, Electabuzz suddenly has the ability to OHKO every Grunt's Poison-types, something Raichu could not hope to do without a crit. Of course, the schools of Water-types are no match for an Electabuzz that knows Thunderpunch, which it should know by that point.
    -Type: Electabuzz comes at a time when Water-types are quite commonplace, which is good for Electabuzz considering it's an Electric-type.
    -Match-ups: These match-ups are all assuming you taught Electabuzz Psychic, as all it has for offense is Quick Attack, Thundershock, and Thunderpunch otherwise.
    --Sabrina: Electabuzz isn't sweeping her any time soon, but it can beat at least 2 of her Pokemon most of the time.
    --Blaine: Electabuzz can beat Growlithe and Ponyta easily, and occasionally Rapidash depending on how much damage it (Electabuzz) took against Blaine's previous two Pokemon.
    --Giovanni: How well Electabuzz does against Giovanni depends on whether you taught it Psychic or not: if you did, it can do respectably against his entire team except for Dugtrio, but it has absolutely no chance against him if it doesn't know Psychic.
    --Lorelei: Jynx's neutrality to Electric-type attacks and Lapras's immense special bulk allow them to take on Electabuzz, but the rest of Lorelei's team easily falls. Just make sure you don't allow Slowbro to get more than one Amnesia up, though!
    --Bruno: This fight is very similar to Giovanni: If Electabuzz knows Psychic, it wins. If it doesn't, it can beat Hitmonchan and maybe Hitmonlee, but has some trouble with Machamp and (embarassingly) can't touch his 2 Onix.
    --Agatha: each of her Ghosts can stomach a Psychic, and their naturally high Speed allows each of them (with the possible exception of Haunter) to Confuse Electabuzz or put it to sleep. Golbat and Arbok on the other hand are jokes.
    --Lance: Gyarados is completely fried, as is Aerodactyl if it uses Take Down, Leer, or Fly rather than Hyper Beam or Supersonic. Electabuzz can't do much else to Lance's team, unfortunately.
    --Rival: Pidgeot, Gyarados, Cloyster, and possibly Vaporeon and Blastoise are all (predictably) beaten, but Electabuzz doesn't exactly excel against anything else on his team, save for Rhydon if it knows Psychic.
    -Additional Comments: Electabuzz is an adequate Pokemon, one with a good typing for the time in the game it's caught as well as being unique in that it's one of the very few Generation I Electric-types who don't need Thunderbolt thanks to its exclusive access to Thunderpunch. However, Electabuzz suffers from having solid competition from Raichu, who has similar stats but can be obtained earlier, and Zapdos, who is in the same area as Electabuzz but has a much higher level and better stats all around. Electabuzz's main niche in all of this is its exclusive (for Electric-types, at least) access to Psychic and Thunderpunch, eliminating its need for Thunderbolt (as mentioned above) that all other Electric-types demand. In other words, if you're not going to teach Electabuzz Psychic, don't use it, as other Electric-types can do its job better otherwise.

    I apologize for the multiple comparisons to Raichu, but they're just so similar (that is, if Electabuzz doesn't get taught Psychic) that it's only natural that they get compared.

    Anyway, with Electabuzz done, that's all of the Pokemon I used in my most recent playthrough (with the obvious exception of the starter I used, but I don't think it needs a revamp), and I am open to any criticisms/info I might have missed out on/nitpicks you might have about these revamps.

    @Alice in Strings
    Your note about the second Moon Stone has been included in the Clefairy revamp. Thank you for the information!
  15. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Hey Naix didn't you do a Weedle re-write? I remember someone did, and I cant find it.
  16. Naix

    Naix

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    376
    Yeah, I did. It's on the bottom of page 13, so I can see how it was missed. I'll just c/p it into this post right about...

    now.
    Weedle revamp (open)
    [​IMG]
    Weedle (Red and Blue only) - Low Tier
    -Availability: Weedle are easy to obtain, just search for them in Viridian Forest. They can also be found at Route 2 in Red, but it's better just to go into the forest and look for them there, as you have a higher chance of finding them there. They also evolve quite early, at level 7 and then level 10.
    -Stats: This here is the main reason why Weedle's bad. Its stats are unimpressive all across the board, even after it fully evolves, with its highest base stat being 80 Attack.
    -Movepool: Its only attacking moves are the weak Poison Sting and the unreliable Fury Attack until it learns Twineedle at level 20. Twineedle, and later Pin Missile, are Bug-type moves, which, back in the day, hit Poison-types super-effectively, essentially meaning Beedrill hits a decent chunk of the later mid-game super-effectively. It also learns Agility and Swords Dance (although you'll need TM03 for the latter), which are absolutely essential for its performance against most of the later bosses. Also, it can learn Mega Drain, which allows it to deal with Rock/Ground-types, but has little use otherwise, as most of the Water-types in the game are hit just as hard, if not harder, by Twineedle or Pin Missile. Unfortunately, Pin Missile and Twineedle don't exactly have the best base powers in the game, with Twineedle being 75 after STAB is factored in.
    -Power: With only Poison Sting and Fury Attack for the first two badges, Beedrill's not doing very well. Then, when it learns Twineedle, it actually does adequately, easily defeating the majority of things weak to it. It also does well in Pokemon Tower, outspeeding and OHKOing the Ghost-types that haunt the tower. Soon after that, however, Beedrill hits the wall known as Koffing, and realizes that the only way for it to KO them in one turn is to hope for the 25% chance of Pin Missile hitting at least 4 times. Soon afterwards, it runs into Weezing, whom it can't OHKO at all without the aid of a critical hit. Another thing: don't use the terms "Bird Keeper" and "Beedrill" in the same sentence, for Beedrill's sake.
    -Type: Bug is, as mentioned above, one of the best STABs to have in RBY. Beedrill also has a secondary Poison typing, giving it a neutrality to Poison-type attacks, but also giving it a Psychic weakness, meaning Beedrill can't effectively take them on.
    -Match-ups: All of these match-ups after Erika are assuming it knows at least Swords Dance, as it does pathetically otherwise in most of those cases.
    --Brock: Considering the fact that his Pokemon resist every move Kakuna (or Beedrill, depending on whether you grinded it or not) has, and that they have high Defense, breaking through them just won't work. And before you say something like "But Poison Sting poisons them!" keep in mind that Brock has Full Heals at his disposal.
    --Misty: While her Starmie is indeed weak to Twineedle, it is faster than Beedrill and its BubbleBeam is fully capable of OHKOing it.
    --Lt. Surge: Beedrill can beat his Voltorb and Pikachu with little to no problem, but Raichu can fry it with a Thunderbolt.
    --Erika: This is the part of the game where Beedrill is at its best. It literally OHKOes everything in this Gym (except for Erika's Tangela, but what would it honestly do in retaliation?) with Twineedle. Ahhh, 4x weaknesses...
    --Koga: You'll need to set up 3 Swords Dances to stand a chance against him, and keep in mind that his Koffing know Selfdestruct and Muk knows Minimize.
    --Sabrina: Her Kadabra outspeeds and OHKOes you. However, if Beedrill sets up an Agility on her Mr. Mime, it can take out her Alakazam as well as Mr. Mime if it didn't use Barrier. Also, since she has a Venomoth, which can survive a Pin Missile most of the time, you'll probably want to use Swords Dance, at least if it wasn't for the fact that Mr. Mime's Confusion 2HKOes.
    --Blaine: While you might be able to set up on him, keep in mind that Rapidash can weather a +6 5-hit Pin Missile and proceed to trap Beedrill with Fire Spin, beating it in only 3 turns. If you made it past Rapidash, his Arcanine is much bulkier than it looks, having the ability to survive at least 10 +6 Pin Missile impacts.
    --Giovanni: First of all, you need Mega Drain to beat his Rhyhorn (and Rhydon), which is the only Pokemon he has that Beedrill can properly set up on. Remember that Dugtrio is faster than an unboosted Beedrill, and Nidoqueen has the bulk to take a +6 5-hit Pin Missile, meaning they both have an opportunity to fire attacks back at Beedrill.
    --Lorelei: Because Rest is a Psychic-type move, Dewgong will repeatedly use it against Beedrill, allowing it to set up as much as it wants. Unfortunately, Slowbro, Cloyster, and Lapras have enough bulk to easily take a +6 Pin Missile.
    --Bruno: As with Giovanni, his first Pokemon is a non-threatening Rock/Ground-type that can be set up on. While his entire team resists Bug-type attacks, +6 Pin Missile is still strong enough to take out his Hitmonlee in 4 hits. The only things you need to watch out for are Mega Punch, Mega Kick, and Karate Chop from his Fighting-types.
    --Agatha: Unlike the previous two, Beedrill can't set up on any of her Pokemon, as they all know status moves of some sort that can (and will) disrupt any setup attempts.
    --Lance: While it can't beat his Gyarados, it can set up on his Dragonair, both of which know Agility. Keep in mind that unless Beedrill knows Agility as well, it won't defeat Aerodactyl, who is faster and can survive a +6 Pin Missile. Also, Dragonite will do nothing against it, as it knows Barrier and Agility, and will use them against Poison-types (like Beedrill!)
    --Blue: Just like with Agatha, Beedrill has no setup opportunities, and as such is of no use to you for this battle.
    -Additional Comments: Weedle comes (and evolves) early and its primary STAB is very useful in-game, but when it comes down to it, it just doesn't hit hard enough against its intended targets to be a great help. The added Psychic weakness, lack of Bug-type attacks until level 20, and the low base power of the STAB moves themselves don't exactly help its cause either.


    Also, does anybody else think Krabby might deserve Mid? While its Special might be one of the worst in the game, Crabhammer should be enough to beat what it needs to, and Strength, which comes from a gigantic base 130 Attack, could deal respectable damage to everything else (except of course for Ghost-types). It can also be found as a Kingler in Blue and Yellow, and in fact can be fished up with a 20% chance if you're using a Super Rod in the bottom 2 floors. Of course, its aforementioned Special means it can't effectively use Ice Beam, making it worse than other Water-types against Lance.
    However, regardless of whether Krabby gets deemed to be bumped up to Mid or stays in Low, I think that its entry should be redone, as it fails to mention the fact that Kingler aren't too difficult/annoying to find if you're using a Super Rod in the bottom 2 floors of Seafoam Islands and the entry itself is pretty poor in general (at least in my opinion).
  17. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Thanks! I used Beedrill once, fun to use but yeah I agree with low tier.

    Also, the Charmander write-up on the front page that I wrote probably needs a more in-depth upgrade. I already updated my Bulbasaur entry, so here is Charmander.

    Charmander (RB) - Top Tier
    -Availability: Starter Pokemon
    -Stats: Mostly Average, Charizard does have Good Speed that allows it to outspeed most in-game threats.
    -Movepool: Through level-up Charmander learns Ember for STAB, but its stuck with that until Level 46 (Flamethrower) or after the 7th gym (where you get the Fire Blast TM). However the most notable move in Charizard's level-up movepool is Slash at Level 33, which in RBY has a high critical hit ratio. Charmander is also a big fan of the Dig TM, allowing it to take the various Poison types in the game.
    -Power: Slash and Dig is a powerful combination that is only resisted by Aerodactyl, who you only have to fight once in the entire game.
    -Type: Fire/Flying. Unfortunately, it's typing is one of its flaws. Charziard doesn't learn any flying moves in the original R&B, and he spends the majority of the game stuck with Ember instead of Flamethrower/Fire Blast. His other moves (Slash and Dig mainly) are better than his STAB. Another problem with his type is that its weak to Water, which is a common type in this game.
    -Match-ups:
    --Brock: Brock's Pokemon resist Ember, but their low Special means they will still be hurt by Ember. Just don't attack Onix during his Bide period and you should be fine.
    --Misty: Staryu is manageable, but Starmie absolutely destroys Charmeleon with BubbleBeam. A Grass type partner is highly recommended for this battle.
    --Lt. Surge: Assuming you let Charmeleon have the Dig TM, it should be a simple sweep.
    --Erika: Her Pokemon are weak to Ember, but Ember's poor Base Power means her Victreebel and Vileplume can take a hit and retaliate with status. However, if Charmeleon has Slash at this point (it learns Slash at Level 33, so you entirely possible for you to have it by now without overgrinding), it'll take out Victreebel and Vileplume easily. Erika's Tangela isn't most of a threat due to its lack of a good moveset.
    --Koga: His whole team is weak to Dig, so Charizard has the advantage here.
    --Sabrina: Her Pokemon's weak Physical Defense means Slash will make short work of them.
    --Blaine: Charizard resists Fire, and Dig is Super Effective on his entire team.
    --Giovanni: None of his Pokemon know Rock Slide, so Charizard is safe here. Slash hurts Dugtrio, while Dig is Super Effective on the rest of his team.
    --Lorelei: Charizard is actually weak to Ice in RBY, meaning he wont enjoy taking Auoura Beam from Dewgong or Cloyster. Slowbro has the bulk to take Slash, and set up with Amnesia. Jynx is easily taken out by Slash. Lapras can destroy Charizard with either Hydro Pump or Blizzard
    --Bruno: Charizard resists Fighting, and Slash or Flamethrower/Fire Blast will take out Bruno's fighting Pokemon. Dig is Super Effective on Onix, but Charizard does not want to take a Rock Throw.
    --Agatha: Dig takes out her Ghosts and Arbok easily, and Slash/Flamethrower takes out Golbat.
    --Lance: Charizard can take out Dragonair with Slash, and do a lot of damage to Dragonite with the same move. But Gyarados has Hydro Pump, while Aerodactyl resists all of Charizard's moves.
    Blue – Slash hurts Pidgeot, Flamethrower/Fire Blast hurt Exeggutor, and Dig hurts Arcanine/Rhydon. Alakazam can be taken out by Slash, as long as Alakazam doesn't get lucky with the Critical Hit Psychics. Blastoise on the other hand resists Fire, has good Physical Defense to take Slash/Dig, and can take out Charizard with Hydro Pump.
    -Additional Comments: As you can see, Charmander is a very good starter. However, Charmander really wants the Dig TM, which a lot of Pokemon in the game also want. But if you are fine with putting Dig on Charmander, you should be good to go.
  18. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    Since it was me that bought it up, I decided to have a go at revamping Tentacool.

    Tentacool (open)
    [​IMG]
    -Tentacool - High Tier
    -Availability: The best way to obtain Tentacool is to encounter it by surfing. The Tentacool south of Fuchsia City vary wildly in level, ranging from level 5 to level 40. However, it doesn’t take very long to get a high level Tentacool, and by using Repels strategically you can encounter one sooner. It is also possible to use the Super Rod to fish one up in various locations. This is really only viable in Yellow because the RB Tentacool caught by fishing are underleveled (and you can even fish up a Tentacruel in Yellow). Tentacool evolves at level 30 so if you catch a high level one you can obtain Tentacruel quickly. Although Tentacool is relatively late, it comes at a convenient time where Tentacruel’s strengths are most useful.
    -Stats: The stat that should get the most attention is Special. At an incredible 120, Tentacruel edges out Omaster as the most powerful Water type when hitting from the special side. This is supported by 100 Speed, which is outspeeding practically all opponents in game. Tentacruel’s only remotely poor stat is Defence, but it isn’t at the same level of “pathetic” as something like Alakazam, and thanks to its high power this is easy to work around.
    -Movepool: Tentacruel doesn’t have much of note within its level up move, although Hydro Pump is very powerful and Barrier can be used to patch up its weak Defence if you so wish. Its best moves come from TMs. It is a given that Tentacruel will get Surf, which hits like a truck from its 120 Special. It gets Ice Beam and Blizzard for coverage and although both are valuable TMs, it is standard to give at least one of those to the water type on your team. As such, Tentacruel can safely assume access to an Ice move. Tentacruel is also compatible with Mega Drain, and is the only Water type capable of learning the attack. It isn’t something Tentacruel absolutely must have, but it provides super-effective coverage against opposing Water types while recovering HP at the same time. Water types love being able to hit other Water types, and with 120 Special and its resistances to back it up, Tentacruel can use it hold its own against Water types much better than many of its Water type brethren.
    -Power: With its stats and coverage, Tentacruel is a destructive force to be reckoned with. Many of the late game opponents simply cannot stand up to Tentacruel. Tentacruel can plow through certain teams with ease, making the last parts of the game much easier for you.
    -Type: Tentacruel is the only Water/Poison type in RBY, although the Poison type doesn’t help it at all. STAB Water attacks are invaluable late game thank to super-effective hits on Fire and Ground types. Water provides it with resistances to Water, Ice and Fire. Tentacruel carries a weakness to Electric carried by all Water types, so make sure you have teammates that can take them. The Poison type neutralises the usual Grass weakness of Water, but at the same time adds Bug, Ground and Psychic weaknesses. This is of little concern because Bug attacks are weak in general, Tentacruel can destroy pretty much anything with a Ground move before they strike, and Psychic types are rare after Sabrina.
    -Match-ups: Sabrina – Many Water types tend to struggle against Sabrina’s Psychic types, but Tentacruel has it particularly bad because it is actually weak to Psychic moves. You do have your high Special on your side and Tentacruel can contribute somewhat against her weaker pokemon, but using Tentacruel for this battle isn’t the best idea and sending it in on Alakazam is foolish.
    Blaine – You absolutely destroy Blaine. They absolutely cannot stand up to your extreme power.
    Giovanni – The is a similar story to Blaine, but it is more risky in Yellow because Dugtrio might outspeed you and nail you with Earthquake. If Persian outspeeds you then its Slash may sting (Tentacruel should still win as long as you have plenty of HP in reserve though). Other than that, you can pretty much kill anything else effortlessly.
    Lorelei – Tentacruel fairs better than most Water types because of Mega Drain and its 120 Special. Tentacruel shouldn’t be the number one choice for this battle (that honour goes to your STAB Electric spammer should you be carrying one) but Tentacruel can definitely pull its wait here.
    Bruno – This is an easy battle for you. Onix is a joke, and Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan are frail. Machamp has the option of hitting you with a crit Karate Chop in Yellow, but other than that you should have no serious issues. The fact that Tentacruel resists Fighting attacks is the icing on the cake.
    Agatha – Golbat and Arbok shouldn’t prove to be a problem. The ghosts are more concerning since they have high Specials and annoying status moves. One of her Gengar even has Psychic in Yellow. Using Tentacruel against the ghosts isn’t the best way to deal with them.
    Lance – Water/Ice coverage covers most of his team. Gyarados should be dealt with using a different Pokémon because Hyper Beam hits Tentacruel hard. Some of his Dragons have Electric attacks in Yellow but Tentacruel should have the speed advantage and it can take a non-STAB Thunderbolt/Thunder.
    Blue – Tentacruel’s coverage really comes in handy here. If you have Surf, Ice Beam/Blizzard and Mega Drain, you can hit Pidgeot, Rhydon, Exeggutor, Charizard, Arcanine, Blastoise and Venusaur in RB. In Yellow, the hitlist is Sandslash, Exeggutor, Ninetales, Vaporeon, Cloyster and Flareon. The main things to avoid would be Alakazam and the Electric types.
    -Additional Comments: Tentacruel is yet another great late game Water type. The main things differentiating it from the competition are its massive Special, its Poison type (for better or for worse) and Mega Drain. Tentacruel’s only “problem” is its lateness, but Tentacruel comes just when it’s needed and unless you started with Squirtle your Water type options are fairly limited before Tentacruel anyway.


    Please let me know if I screwed up. My experience with it is somewhat limited. :)
  19. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    You forgot to mention being Part Poison adds a weakness to Bug (although thats not a big deal at all). But other than that minor nitpickit, looks good.
  20. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    440
    Is Mega Drain really useful with 40 base power and only 10 PP ?
  21. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    233
    Off of 120 Special?






    Why yes...yes it is. It gives Tentacruel much needed coverage against its own type (Water, not Poison)
  22. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,191
    Mega Drain ftw
  23. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,018
    lol yeah I wasn't trying to sell Mega Drain as the main reason to use Tentacruel over other water types (I even said that it isn't absolutely essential for Tentacruel to learn it in the write up). The main reason would be its massive Special. Mega Drain is just something extra that Tentacruel can get that none of its competition has access to, and it allows it to do good damage to water types. Obviously Tentacruel shouldn't be your number one answer to water types but it is still nice to be able to hit them without resorting to non-STABed non-super-effective no-recovery normal moves like Dewgong (EDIT: well, Dewgong has Horn Drill so it can use that with X-Accuracy instead, so Dewgong isn't really that disadvantaged by lack of Mega Drain/Thunderbolt), Cloyster, Seadra and Golduck have to. It's a small advantage (Mega Drain COULD be more powerful) but an advantage nonetheless.

    The PP isn't even that big of an issue until late game, like Mekkah said before, because that's when you start facing teams of powerful fully evolved pokemon with 3+ pokemon on them. Mega Drain is only going to be used for water types and if you run out of PP you just send in a team mate with Thunderbolt to take over. That's not to mention the numerous Ethers and Elixers you'll probably pick up along the way (although I'd rather save those for the elite 4 and just use Thunderbolt instead).
  24. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Hmm, if Slowpoke got a reconsideration, should Exeggutor? Seeing as they seemed to have the same reception (Good STABs, powerful, but its low speed makes it hard to sweep).
  25. Progeusz

    Progeusz

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Differnce is, only one STAB of Exeggutor is good. Grass type moves were terrible until Gen IV happened. Grass/Psychic is also a lot worse than Water/Psychic defensively. I agree it could be tested again though.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)