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Pokemon RBY In-Game Tiers - Mark III

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by atsync, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. froggy25

    froggy25

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    I'm sorry if this has already been said, but Nidoran M fully deserves to be on top of the S-Rank, as it is the most efficient way to make a glitchless speedrun with Horn Drill + X Accuracy once it is fully evolved, and it is available nearly from the start.
  2. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    the list is ordered alphabetically
  3. froggy25

    froggy25

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    lol I feel like a complete noob right now =P

    But including Horn Drill + X Accuracy in its description is needed I think
  4. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    We've also established the rule that we're not soloing the game, which, I would argue, hurts Nidoking a bit.

    Assume the tier list was ordered by potential not alphabet, how'd it look like? Squirtle on top probably.
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    If not Squirtle, then Abra or Diglett probably.

    I have no plans to order this by performance/potential though.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    For the benefit of those who don't pay attention to C+C, the article for this is completed and on-site. You can check it out here.
  7. cjrocker

    cjrocker

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    Very impressive, atsync. Kudos to you for spearheading this project and actually getting it done.
  8. Yamato-san

    Yamato-san

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    Would you consider updating the list to include the Japanese Blue version? It probably isn't much, but the fact that Jynx could be caught in the wild (way later, at the Seafoam Islands) at least leaves me curious as to how differently you'd rate it.
  9. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I guess if we were to include Japanese Blue, the tiering of some Pokemon might change. Jynx sticks out as one of these, and there are a few interesting Pokemon obtained from trades:

    Jigglypuff for Mr. Mime (Route 2)
    Rattata for Poliwag (Route 5)
    Rhydon for Kangaskhan (Route 11)
    Persian for Tauros (Route 18)
    Machoke for Haunter/Gengar (Cerulean City)
    Pidgey for Farfetch'd (Vermilion City)
    Kadabra for Graveler/Golem (Cinnabar Island)
    Seel for Slowpoke (Cinnabar Island)
    Growlithe for Krabby (Cinnabar Island)

    Of those, I guess Tauros, Slowpoke, and Poliwag might be the most affected, but I don't know. Mr. Mime was nerfed slightly due to Jigglypuff's lower catch level when compared to Abra and Clefairy, so maybe that would be an issue. I'm not sure if levelling up a Rhyhorn to Rhydon to obtain a Kangaskhan would be much better than the English alternative. The fact that Gengar and Golem are guaranteed in Japanese Blue is notable but I doubt it would change the tiers they are in now (i.e. Gengar wouldn't become Top and Golem wouldn't become High). Farfetch'd didn't really change at all. Krabby is already High and Japanese Blue probably wouldn't change much (I suppose it would be High with the Blue and Yellow versions).

    That's about it really. I doubt the fact the Ditto is found earlier would help it much. Lickitung was nerfed but it is already Low so it can't go any lower. There's not much of note from the Game Corner either as far as I can tell, aside from maybe Horsea.

    I'm not really interested in including these for this list though. This was a game that was never legally released outside of Japan that most people won't bother playing when the English alternatives are available. At best, it might make for a decent Letter on-site, where you explain how certain Pokemon are changed and assess whether they are more useful or not as a result. That's assuming it gets accepted, of course.
  10. Longfellow

    Longfellow

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    Hey! It's been awhile.

    I really like the write-up for the main site! I think you do a great job summarizing each Pokémon.

    I actually visited this thread intending to ask about the Japanese Blue trades, so it's a neat coincidence that y'all were already talking about them. Now I haven't run Pokémon in some time and I've never played Japanese Blue, but my gut tells me Poliwag would be really really good. Early availability is so cool for Water Pokémon and that parabolic+outsider exp. is ridiculous. It's like Vaporeon plus. Unless I'm missing something—hits just as hard with Bubblebeam/Surf/Ice Beam thanks to the extra levels, and then gets all these extra toys to play with like Hypnosis, Body Slam, Amnesia, Psychic (!!), Earthquake... I dunno, maybe not top tier, but on the better end of high tier for sure. Though Poliwag probably hits its head on the level 30 ceiling unless you beat Erika super quickly.

    The other Pokémon that catches my attention is Golem. Now I know that we're probably not gonna include these Pokémon, but just for discussion's sake I think it makes more sense to treat Abra -> Kadabra -> Golem as one top tier package rather than categorize Golem with Graveler. I dunno, trades are functionally the same as evolutions and I always felt we should treat them as such.
  11. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Pretty much agree with that. Poliwag probably has the most to gain from Japanese Blue.

    To be honest, I never really had a strong opinion on whether you interpret in-game trades as "evolutions". I mean, the idea of pushing Golem up the tiers because it's obtained after blasting through the early parts of the game with an entirely different Pokemon seems so weird to me. I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels that way either. However, I can't really explain why though because I guess you are "evolving" Kadabra into Golem for all intents and purposes. Meh...

    Were we to include this stuff, I guess a good way of approaching the trade Golem would be to mention it in Abra's analysis or something. That would probably be sufficient. I'm not sure how much there is to gain from getting this particular Golem though. I'm not saying that Golem is useless late-game, but I think I'd rather hold on to my Kadabra!
  12. Longfellow

    Longfellow

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    I do get how it's weird to look at trades that way and since it doesn't actually matter for most of the traded Pokémon and since we were always talking about more important things I never brought it up. I mean, do we really have to think of SAILOR the Seel as part of the Ponyta -> Seel -> Dewgong "evolutionary" line when 99% of the time you're not gonna use the Ponyta at all before trading it away? But when I was running Farfetch'd I realized that Spearow's early-game contributions do matter. And while it makes no difference in the tiers, let's suppose some in-game trainer wanted to trade Gyarados for Farfetch'd. I'm gonna remember how that Magikarp crimped my team for fifteen levels and it's an important part of the Farfetch'd "story" for me, so personally it would make sense to think of them as one connected whole.

    I don't mean this as a super-serious discussion, I just think it's interesting.

    Kadabra's great but I can see how Golem could be better for some teams. The trade is on Cinnabar which is around where Kadabra starts needing a couple Psychics to kill the bulky endgame enemies. I dunno, I think Golem could be faster/sturdier in some matchups.

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