| 2 | Ferrothorn | 117960 | 21.4978 | Rain Abuser/Good in Sand but needs neither
You actually agree here but say it "needs" neither. Right, it doesn't "need" either but is inherently stronger in them and that's why Ferrathorn is used in both weathers very often.
...
Ferrothorn is plenty strong on his own. His usage on weather teams means
absolutely nothing about the strength of weather. Your argument doesn't work here.
| 3 | Garchomp | 113074 | 20.6073 | Sand Abuser Good in Sand
Right... Sub SD Chomp abuses Sand Veil hax in Rain, right...
While he is certainly best in Sand, he still sees lots of play on other teams, from SmashPass to generic Aggro. Indeed, I'd be amazed if he doesn't show up on Rain teams. He's less a Sand abuser and more an incredibly good Pokemon that happens to get better in sand.
If you really think that Garchomp's usage would be changed that much simply by removing weather from the game, go ahead and stop reading now, since this post will do nothing to change your opinion.
| 4 | Scizor | 107394 | 19.5722 | Good in Rain and Sand, but abuses neither
I didn't say abuse for Scisor... This is just, bad.
Your original point was that the usage stats show that weather is dominating. Yet most of your rationalizations are about Pokemon that would see roughly the same amount of play if there was no weather.
The logical conclusion to this line of thought is that your argument doesn't really work.
| 5 | Gliscor | 87936 | 16.0260 | Common Sand Abuser gets no boost in Sand
It gets Sand Veil, lol. But on a serious note Abuser was a semantics error here. We all know that Gliscor is mainly used on Sand Teams.
Correlation does not imply causation.
Correlation does not imply causation. Correlation does not imply causation.
Gliscor is good. Gliscor is used on a lot of Sand teams. Gliscor sees play because there are Sand teams. Sand teams are broken.
It. Does. Not. Work. Like. That.
Gliscor's use has extremely little to do with Sand, and everything to do with the fact that he's possibly the best physical wall in OU, to the point where I still use him
on my Rain team.
| 7 | Rotom-W | 74332 | 13.5467 | Rain Abuser Actually it's a Rain counter more ofter used on Sand. Prefers weather but does not need it
The spirit of my post was showing how weather dominates the meta and how the usage stats showed that. So with Rotom, I was still right. "Prefers weather?" So does Toed, and if it counters a weather it's usage rising coincides with my basic argument anyway. And it does abuse weather.
I think you are mistaking "using weather" for "abusing weather". If something gains very little additional usage because of weather, it can't really be called a weather abuser. Rotom-W sees play because it has solid offenses, great STAB options (weather or no), great defensive typing, and great defenses.
Rotom-W's usage has extremely little to do with weather, and everything to do with the fact that it's a great Bulky Water in a very offensive metagame.
| 9 | Reuniclus | 68412 | 12.4678 | Always on Sand Teams Have you even played OU? Like, ever? Is not on many Sand teams, does not abuse weather at all, and only likes Sand because of Magic Guard/
Always was a dysphemism in this case but don't honestly, it works well in Sand and against weather in general. It is on many Sand Teams and Magic Guard is a big part of that.
But does it see play because it works well against weather, or because it's an amazing Pokemon? It really needs to be the former for your argument to work.
| 10 | Heatran | 68095 | 12.4101 | Sun Abuser If Heatran was only a Sun Abuser, explain how it has twice the usage of Ninetales...
I didn't say "only," you did. And it has more usage than Ninetails because Ninetails blows.
If it were a "sun abuser", it would need to be used primarily on Sun teams, which it obviously does not. It's a great all around Pokemon, but it's usage does not depend entirely upon weather.
| 11 | Jirachi | 65026 | 11.8507 | Rain Abuser More like Special Wall...seriously. Is this a troll post?
Rain makes it a BETTER Special Wall. Actually, losing the Fire weakness makes it a Special Wall. Troll Post? I was gonna say the same thing.
So, you're saying it can't be a Special Wall without getting rid of that Fire weakness? Huh, that's an interesting theory.
Losing his Fire weakness does only moderate amounts to affect his ability as a Special Wall. He trades his Fire Weakness for half a Water one. That's hardly the determining factor in why he's good. Rain or no, it's his crippling weakness to Earthquake that's always been his primary failing point.
| 13 | Conkeldurr | 61359 | 11.1825 | Counters Sand Abuser So it's a revenge killer. That's called being anti-metagame, not a weather abuser
It counters a major weather abuser. If it wasn't for Excadrill Conkeldurr's usage wouldn't have risen. The "anti-metagame" status is due to it countering a Sand Abuser. I was right in this one.
People have been singing Conky's praises since day one. He sees use because he's possibly the best user of priority Fighting moves in the game, and while Excadrill is the most obvious target for those, there are more than enough Steels floating around the metagame that a powerful Fighting type will always see play.
| 15 | Gengar | 58717 | 10.7010 | Exception Yep
So you agree with me?
That his usage has nothing to do with weather?
Yes.
That this is some sort of exception to the rule?
No.
| 16 | Skarmory | 54634 | 9.9568 | Good in Rain So is every Steel type.
Exactly why Drizzle is suspect. Weather inspires usage in the meta and all steel types can serve some capacity in Rain or Sand, the top two weathers.
Steels see a lot of usage due to being the best defensive type in the game. They don't need encouragement to see play; weather is a bonus at best. Drizzle generally just makes it so your Steels are quickly dispatched by Surf instead of HP Fire. Sure, there are some exceptions to the rule (Ferrothorn being the biggest), but to the best of my knowledge there is exactly one Wall in the game that does not still have at least one 2x weakness because Drizzle is in play (that being Bronzong).
Moral of the story? If your only plan to take out Steels was to rely on an unSTABed, 70 power Fire attack, you can't be surprised when you lose. Yes, Ferrothorn becomes more annoying by a noticeable amount, but it still dies in a couple hits from any decent Fighting or Fire STAB.
| 17 | Thundurus | 54391 | 9.9126 | Rain Abuser No it's not... It likes Rain if it uses Thunder, which it usually doesn't use... Barely even Good in Rain
Yeah, Thundurus doesn't abuse Rain at all... Come on man. And you can't say usually doesn't use because that's not supported by any data. Read the Suspect Nominations if you don't believe me.
Many of the Suspect Nominations are based on confirmation bias and biased theorymon being used to justify getting rid of things the author doesn't like. Accepting what you see in the Suspect nomination thread as "data" is silly.
Thundurus sometimes sees play on Rain teams. But it also sees plenty of play on non-Rain teams. If you read the Suspect Nomination thread, you'll notice people are calling for its ban because of the ease of setting up with him, his incredible power, and because he can run various priority support moves. If Drizzle and/or Thunder are mentioned at all, it's rarely the crux of their argument.
| 18 | Jellicent | 49694 | 9.0565 | Rain Abuser Your argument has officially been negated. It runs one Water STAB move, and couldn't care less about Rain
Argument negated? You don't even know that Thundurus abuses Rain. Anyway Jellicent is good in Rain and countering Sun but this one is wrong on my pary by saying Abuser.
He sees play almost exclusively because he is a great Special Wall that absorbs Water. Water attacks which see plenty of use regardless of weather's influence.
| 19 | Starmie | 46790 | 8.5273 | Rain Abuser It's not an abuser. It's Good in Rain, but not an abuser.
Let's be real, Starmie isn't used outside of Rain.
Yes, because Starmie wasn't good enough for OU the last 4 Generations. Oh wait...
Also, what's your argument here? Even if we pretend that Starmie doesn't see play on non-Rain teams, it still doesn't follow that it's a Rain abuser - it's a good Pokemon that sees play on Rain teams because it's good on Rain teams.
I apparently need to say it again: Correlation does not imply causation. Just because Starmie and Politoed see a lot of play together, that does not mean that Drizzle is the reason that Starmie sees play. Starmie sees play because it is incredibly fast, powerful, has amazing coverage, and has Rapid Spin (a minor consideration normally, but a very important one for many teams).
Most Pokemon don't care about Weather. Yeah, weather is overcentralizing in Gen V.
You say most pokemon don't care and then say it's overcentralizing. That's contradictory, like most of your rebuttle. Argument void.
*Whoosh*
That was the sound of obvious sarcasm soaring over your head.
The argument shouldn't be that most Pokemon don't care about weather, since that's not true. Every Pokemon in the game cares about every single weather, since the existence of weather is guaranteed to affect its matchup against some possible foe. The argument should be that very few Pokemon in OU have their usage determined primarily on weather alone.
I won't deny that weather does change what the metagame looks like, but I have a hard time believing that OU wouldn't contain most of the same Pokemon if auto-weather was banned. While weather obviously has a significant effect on the game so long as it is active, the usage statistics do not indicate that weather is seriously hurting creativity. Weather is part of the metagame, so it seems like trying to ban Drizzle (or weather entirely) is simply trying to change a metagame that you don't like.