Project Mono-Type

Status
Not open for further replies.
darmanitan shouldnt be allowed, since if darmanitan applies, we should be able to rotom-w on a mono-grass or a rotom-m on a mono-fire team. just because its other form has a different dual typing doesnt mean it can fit on that team.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

This user has a custom title
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Rotom forms are completely different. Whay you fail to realise is that Darmanitan become psychic during the battle. Its as if Skymin gets Frozen, it then reverts to a pure grass type. What happens if we use Skymin on a Mono-Flying? If it reverts to Shaymin is it illegal? Reasons like that make it more complex, although i am in favour of the diversity as long as the only allowed ability is Zen Mode.
 
Rotom forms are completely different. Whay you fail to realise is that Darmanitan become psychic during the battle. Its as if Skymin gets Frozen, it then reverts to a pure grass type. What happens if we use Skymin on a Mono-Flying? If it reverts to Shaymin is it illegal? Reasons like that make it more complex, although i am in favour of the diversity as long as the only allowed ability is Zen Mode.
I agree here - Darmanitan should be allowed on Mono-Psychic teams IF its ability is Zen Mode

On a similar note once Meloetta is released, it should be allowed on Mono-Fighting teams only if it has Relic Song (whether or not the player chooses to use Relic Song is something else entirely)

In both cases the Mon in question is pretty gimped. GF really dropped the ball by making the only Pokemon that can change forms in combat have completely different attacking stats.
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Let's say that You have a Porygon-Z running Tri Attack, Hidden Power, Conversion and Dark Pulse.
Using Conversion under these circumstances will guarantee that Porygon-Z changes into a Dark Type.
By using the same logic that Meloetta with Relic Song can be allowed in a mono-fighting team, then Porygon-Z should be allowed in a mono-dark team.
Same deal with Castform and weather moves.

Then we have pokemon with Reflect Type and Camouflage and things like Smeargle (who learns all moves) and Kecleon (Color Change).

Do you see where I'm going? Just because a pokemon has the ability to change type mid-battle I don't think it has the right to be slapped into any monotype team.

Shaymin-S is banned anyway so that's not a problem.

In order to avoid confusion, the type that counts should be the one a pokemon has at the start of the match.
 
Relic Song and Zen Mode are different, though, since they drastically alter the Pokemon's stats. I don't think Conversaion has any more chance of flying than Camouflage Starmie on a Normal team, but I don't mind giving Relic Song and Zen Mode to Fighting/Psychic. Castform I'd allow for Normal/Fire/Ice/Water, since Forecast is an ability that's activated with the appropriate weather, and Castform is near useless outside weather anyway (STAB Hyper Beam with 70 Base?)

Back on track, I'm going to re-affirm my vote for Poison. You've got almost everything under the sun- Spikers (Scolipede, Drapion, Roserade), special sweepers (Gengar, Nidoking, Venomoth), defensive walls/support (Weezing, Tentacruel, Venusaur/Muk). You have enough weaknesses so a team wouldn't be 'haha Mono-Dragon let's set up 6 Outrage/Draco Meteor users', but it's not like it would be impossible to check the weaknesses (Scolipede's Megahorn for Psychics, Weezing/Crobat/Gengar for Grounds).
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Castform and Conversion Porygon-Z are nearly unused yes, but what about Conversion/Spore/Shell Smash/Baton Pass Smeargle?
Technically it could be allowed in a mono-grass team if we don't set specific rules against it.

In order to avoid such cases we should estabilish in advance what is allowed and what is not.
 
Ok, here is the problem i have with monopsychic, there is absolutely NO pokes that can take on volcarona one on one that is a psychic type. the closest one i can think of is heatproof bronzong with rock slide.
Speaking of volca, monobug has some of the best pokes. Forry is neccesary for spinning, after all its monobug. scizor for priority and volc so you hurt steels. other then those three, there are still a lot of good pokes. heracross as a status absorber, ninjask and venomoth for baton pass, parasect for spore and dry skin...
 
Ok, here is the problem i have with monopsychic, there is absolutely NO pokes that can take on volcarona one on one that is a psychic type. the closest one i can think of is heatproof bronzong with rock slide.
Speaking of volca, monobug has some of the best pokes. Forry is neccesary for spinning, after all its monobug. scizor for priority and volc so you hurt steels. other then those three, there are still a lot of good pokes. heracross as a status absorber, ninjask and venomoth for baton pass, parasect for spore and dry skin...
lol yea i mentioned mono-bug a while earlier, but scarf darmanitan... sweeps, like no problemo

also, latios should be able to calm mind alongside volcarona although bug buzz still hurts.

mr. mime can also take on volcarona with calm mind and hp rock
 
Monobug does not work at all.
SR literally makes it impossible to win against a good player. Once Foretress is gone it becomes much more difficult.
Plus Foretress and Scizor have the same type= 2 4x times fire weakness.
Armaldo learns rapid spin too, so I guess it could work but I have tried it this gen and there are just too many pokes that can beat it easily.
 
I'd say mono-Ghost, as they're immune to two very common types and weak to two very rare types in themselves. Mono-Dragon would be ok too, though...
 
Bug types don't cover each other's resistances well either.

I'd like to do Poison, because its two weaknesses are easily covered by common immunities, and it has a lot of variety. Of all the types, poison is the one that least defines its pokemon. Very few poison pokemon rely heavily on their poison STAB or the resistances poison brings.
 

Run

Poster of the Month
Darmanitan will be considered a pure fire type and not allowed on mono-psychic.

Arguments such as, "This type of team sucks because it gets destroyed by whatever" is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. The idea is to find ways around obvious difficulties. We are not trying to find the best type to make a team out of. We are picking a team based on preference, and attempting to tackle obstacles head-on. We will eventually make a team with each type.

However, if you believe that certain obstacles are better saved for later teams, when we have gotten better at overcoming weaknesses; that I will consider a valid opposition.

Psychic is sounding more interesting, but will definitely be challenging. It would be fun to relive the glory days of the psychic type from gen 1.

Poison is also catching a lot of attention and will probably be an easier team to create.

Specific typing aside: what kind of things are you all looking for from our next mono-type project? What would you like to accomplish? to avoid? to learn? I encourage you to think a little deeper than looking for the most optimal type to use competitively (but by all means, continue talking about how the team would fit into the metagame).
 
Darmanitan will be considered a pure fire type and not allowed on mono-psychic.

Arguments such as, "This type of team sucks because it gets destroyed by whatever" is exactly the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. The idea is to find ways around obvious difficulties. We are not trying to find the best type to make a team out of. We are picking a team based on preference, and attempting to tackle obstacles head-on. We will eventually make a team with each type.

However, if you believe that certain obstacles are better saved for later teams, when we have gotten better at overcoming weaknesses; that I will consider a valid opposition.

Psychic is sounding more interesting, but will definitely be challenging. It would be fun to relive the glory days of the psychic type from gen 1.

Poison is also catching a lot of attention and will probably be an easier team to create.

Specific typing aside: what kind of things are you all looking for from our next mono-type project? What would you like to accomplish? to avoid? to learn? I encourage you to think a little deeper than looking for the most optimal type to use competitively (but by all means, continue talking about how the team would fit into the metagame).
I want a mono-type team that can be a lot of different play styles and have a variety of teammates. Likewise, I don't want to construct a team will only have a handful of pokes to choose from and only one type of playstyle. Dragon is a great example of this, since it will always be a hyper-offensive team consisting of Dragonite/Salamence/Latios/Hydreigon/Flygon/Latias with Latios/Latias acting as screeners for the rest to sweep and there won't be a variety of pokes to choose from. Fighting and fire are in a similar vein.

Types that fit the bill of being really diverse include Steel, Grass, Ground, Poison and Psychic since people can really make teams that do different things and win in different ways.

If you really want to see how well a mono-type will do look up a type and put BST going from top to bottom on the right. Then see what the pokes at the top can do and how well they work together with typing/moves.
 

Run

Poster of the Month
Excellent answer. I like the idea of having multiple options of playstyle. How do the types you mentioned accomplish this?

Poison typically has horribly low BST, it definitely performs way higher than BST says it should...
 
Poison typically has horribly low BST, it definitely performs way higher than BST says it should...
Poison-types are blessed with a generally excellent defensive typing (many pack ways to circumvent the Ground weakness, although with the revival of Psychic as a not-bad typing, it is a pretty bad weakness), and just the right movepool and stats to do what they need to do.

Also, while the BST may be low, in general, the non-shitty Poison-types have high stats where it counts (Weezing's physical defense, Toxicroak's attack, Crobat's speed, etc)
 
Mono poison probably would have done much better in gen 4 (my most used gen 4 OU team actually had 4 poison types, 5 psychic weaknesses, and it still did well) but it is certainly viable now and probably much more viable than most of the types.

Only 2 weakness (albeit to powerful and arguably common attacking types) makes the building much easier.

Levitate and flying dual types are common and excellent examples can easily fit on a team and fill many roles. (wall, stall breaker, special sweeper in weezing, crobat, and gengar respectively)
And while dual typing with dark...skuntank and drapion, is obviously more rare, only one would need to be used to provide a decent check to psychic moves.

I could already see a fairly successful balance style team consisting of
Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Gengar, Weezing, Drapion, Roserade/Scolipede/Nido(queen or king)

essentially already filling hazard setter, spinner, spinblocker, special sweep, physical sweep, and decent mixed walling abilities. And in general, speed wouldn't be much of an issue...these poison things are pretty quick now that I look at it
 
SpD Skuntank counters most Ghost and Psychic types because of that sexy Focus Blast neutrality. Then it Sucker Punches everything to death.
 
Toxicroak also wouldn't mind taking down Psychics - with that x4 weakness, he can easily bait in offensive Psychics who get Sucker Punched. SubBulkUp can set up against Reuniclus who refuse to attack, and then smash its face with Drain Punch until it decides to attack and then take it out with Sucker Punch.

Mono-Psychic teams have a couple major problems - most of them are Pursuit weak, and other than Girafarig, Jirachi, Metagross and the unreleased Meloetta, all of them are Ghost-weak. Some of the biggest threats in the meta use one of these types. CBTar can eliminate a huge portion of a team by just sitting there and pursuiting until everything's gone. SubDisable/SubSplit Gengar outspeeds every Psychic except Zam and the Latis, and even then, the Latis can tie him at best unless they're scarfed.

Mono-Poison's main problem is that its forced to run Skuntank or Drapion. Not that they're bad, but having one poke deal with all Psychics is kind of dangerous. I doubt either of them can take out Reuniclus in two hits with Crunch without investment, for example (the fucking water bear takes CB Scizor U-turn for Christ's sake), and again -Psychics are starting to rise in popularity. While being neutral to Focus Blast is nice, they don't have reliable recovery, so they're quickly worn down between entry hazards and repeated Focus Missing.
 

Run

Poster of the Month
I could already see a fairly successful balance style team consisting of
Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Gengar, Weezing, Drapion, Roserade/Scolipede/Nido(queen or king)
That is literally exactly my current poison team. Scarf Nidoking filling that last slot.

I run 252 HP/252 Atk adamant choice band Drapion to handle psychics. Crunch is an easy 2HKO on reuniclus. Pursuit 1 hits pretty much anything that tries to switch away and 2HKOs just about anything that attempts to stay in. Drapions natural physical bulk makes the HP investment the only real requirement. He is definitely a niche pokemon, often hardly carrying its weight against opponents who don't carry psychic pokemon, but he essentially hard-counters any psychic pokemon you would normally expect to see. After the psychic is down, he becomes expendable. Specs Latios obviously is difficult, but theres also sucker punch toxicroak and SpDef Tentacruel for him.

I will save further comments about my team until we have a dedicated topic for poison, whether now or during a later project.
 
Mono-Psychic teams have a couple major problems - most of them are Pursuit weak, and other than Girafarig, Jirachi, Metagross and the unreleased Meloetta, all of them are Ghost-weak. Some of the biggest threats in the meta use one of these types. CBTar can eliminate a huge portion of a team by just sitting there and pursuiting until everything's gone. SubDisable/SubSplit Gengar outspeeds every Psychic except Zam and the Latis, and even then, the Latis can tie him at best unless they're scarfed.
You forgot Bronzong in that list of Ghost neutral or better Psychics.
 
Mono-Psychic teams have a couple major problems - most of them are Pursuit weak, and other than Girafarig, Jirachi, Metagross and the unreleased Meloetta, all of them are Ghost-weak. Some of the biggest threats in the meta use one of these types. CBTar can eliminate a huge portion of a team by just sitting there and pursuiting until everything's gone. SubDisable/SubSplit Gengar outspeeds every Psychic except Zam and the Latis, and even then, the Latis can tie him at best unless they're scarfed.
Both Deoxys-S, Starmie, and (uncommon in OU) Azelf outspeed Gengar. Gengar has to risk things living a Shadow Ball and then OHKO'ing with a super-effective attack. Being Ghost weak isn't a liability because it is not a very common attacking type in OU (bar Reuniclus and Gengar). CB Tar is a hurtle, but every type has a poke that has a hurtle. I'm sure CB Tar won't enjoy Focus Blast's, Super effective attacks from the Steels/Psychics, our good fighting mons (Gallade and Medicham) and the other moves psychics have (Surf Stamie, Brick Break Victini, Superpower Deoxys)

Excellent answer. I like the idea of having multiple options of playstyle. How do the types you mentioned accomplish this?
1. Psychic I already have mentioned in my post above, but the main points for Psychic are the large amount of OU viable Pokes it has, the variety of support moves it can run (thus playstyles), and the large amount of secondary typings it has. Overall I think this is the best mono-type we could do.
2. Steel is very similar to Psychic. While they don't have the very best offensive typing, they're secondary typing options and large amounts of support moves, along with the large amount of OU-viable Pokes makes it good. Steel can run play styles other mono-teams can't, stall, since weakness are patched up easily. (Psychic has Trick Room)
3. Grass can fair a lot better now thanks to the introduction of Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn can act as the defensive core "alone" pretty much. Grass has a lot of niche moves that other type don't, most notably Spore and Leech Seed. It has a few good physical attackers and great special attackers. It has some pretty bulky pokes such as tangrowth, virizion, roeselia, and cradily but Grass is a terrible defensive type alone. The only problem is that it can get ripped apart really easily coughInfernapecough and some lack of diversity.
4. Ground has great STAB along with a huge amount great physical attackers and defenders. Ground has a lot of secondary typing options along with support moves. Unfortunately, its special side is lacking but the very few options are good ones. Notably Nidoking as a special attacker and while the special defenders are Gastrodon and Claydol. It can cover its weakness pretty well, but not as well as other types.
5. Poison has access to a lot of support moves; most notably toxic spikes, spore, clear smog, and Toxic(sort of poison?). Poison is able to cover up its weakness really well since its a defensive typing and its weaknesses can be patched up easily. The big downside to Poison is the type itself is not that great offensively and we will be guaranteed to use a handful of Pokes since a lot of Poisons are not OU-viable. Like Ground, the few options are good, but they will pretty much be our only options and the playstyle will be balanced with some toxic stalling.
 
It's true that a lot of poisons aren't OU viable, but there are plenty that are. Gengar, Scolipede, Drapion, Crobat, Roserade, Tentacruel, the Nidos, etc. A lot of the NU Poisons are surprising, like Weezing and its bulk or Skuntank, with its pretty solid stats, solid movesets and decent abilities.

I completely forgot about Deoxys-S. Also, my bad on forgetting that Starmie outspeeds Gengar. But the point still stands that while extremely deadly, it faces HUGE threats from relatively common threats (Scizor, who fears random HP fire, Volcarona, who has no issue setting up on most Psychics, aforementioned Dark/Ghosts)
 
Many months ago I had 17 mono teams, then I got a new computer and lost them all ;_;.
But I do remember my psychic team was one of the best mono teams I had. It was insane how well psychic did on it's own. On another note, I remember ghost was fun as your entire team was a spinblocker so frosslass's spikes are going nowhere. One last team was dragon and strangely it just sucked in mono; period. There are WAYYY too many ice weak pokes in dragon with a whopping 2 neutral pokes (in OU) and Kyurum is stealth rock weak! It has more problems than anyone can comprehend.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top