[QC Rejected 2/3] Zoroark

[Alter]

/ --
Zoroark | #571

[BW2 Smogon | Serebii | Bulbapedia]​

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Status: QC Ready (0/3)
QC Approvals: [ ] | [ ] | [ ]
GP Checks: [ ]
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[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Illusion is a great ability which can help Zoroark grab a bunch of kills.</li>
<li>Zoroark has high offensive stats on both sides.</li>
<li>Its Speed stat is also stellar, allowing it to outpace many Pokemon.</li>
<li>The lack of good Fighting-types currently available allows Zoroark to be slightly more effective for now.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Zoroark is a very frail Pokemon with lose base Defense stats.</li>
<li>The introduction of the Fairy type hinders its Dark typing. </li>
<li>It has a vulnerability to almost every kind of priority.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Zoroark @ Life Orb <br />
Ability: Illusion<br />
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe<br />
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)<br />
- Sucker Punch<br />
- Focus Blast<br />
- Flamethrower / Hidden Power Ice<br />
- Dark Pulse</p>

<p>

• Sucker Punch is a spectacular move when used with Illusion, allowing Zoroark to finish off and revenge kill foes.
• Focus Blast pairs well with Sucker Punch, hurting opposing Dark-types.
  
• Flamethrower and HP Ice round off coverage.
• Mixed offenses make it hard to wall.
• Attack is maximized to ensure that Sucker Punch can deal as much damage as possible. It also helps if you decide to use Low Sweep over Focus Blast.
• The Speed EVs allow Zoroark to reach 300 Speed, outpacing neutral nature base 100s.
  
• Teammates that can get rid of priority users as well as those that can safely get Zoroark in through the use of VoltTurn are exceptional.
• Mega Gengar can also trap and KO Fairies for Zoroark making it an excellent partner.

</p>

[[Possibly mention U-turn on this set. Need QC input on where it should go]]

<p>Zoroark @ Life Orb / Focus Sash<br />
Ability: Illusion<br />
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)<br />
- Nasty Plot<br />
- Dark Pulse / Night Daze<br />
- Focus Blast<br />
- Flamethrower</p>

<p>

• Attempts to use illusion to grab a set up opportunity.
• Has massive power after a NP boost which allows it to destroy defensive Pokemon with sheer power.
• Dark Pulse and Focus Blast have fairly good coverage alongside Dark Pulse.
• Flamethrower can be replaced for a Hidden Power of choice to take on what the teammates can't
  
• Good partners are those that can lure in and kill special walls or those that can stop Fighting- and Fairy-types.

</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>

• Countering Zoroark is more difficult when it hasn't been revealed yet because of illusion.
• Fighting types give Zoroark hell a lot of the time.
• Specially bulky Fairy types, especially Florges / Sylveon.
• Chansey / Blissey can wall sets lacking physical moves.
• Weak to priority (conkeldurr/scizor can revenge kill safely).

</p>

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I decided to temporarily ditch the Choice Specs set because it lost Trick in the transition to XY which is a major setback for the set. SD is also heavily outclassed by other Pokemon and the abundance of priority in this gen is the nail in the coffin.

If you're doubting Zoroark's viability:

zoroark is not bad. it still can act as a solid bluffer and with the buff of dark type dark pulse is much more spammable and a stronger dark pulse. fairy type IS annoying as always for dark types due to their ability to tank the hits very well. sadly unlike hydreigon zoroark lacks any way to get around them, but it can use illusion to its advantage and be able to bluff / possibly scare away fairy types if used with something like scizor. illusion as always is the main niche here, and it can be used to an advantage. certainly better than other pokemon on the list. not a bad pokemon and it as always has and probably will always have a niche in ou.

(the Pokemon was then added to the reservation list by Sub 18)

 

[IloveslakingIGN]

This thing works great when using the illusion ability to show itself as a ghost type. maybe make a mention of that.

 

[Alter]

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll ensure that I mention these things or look more deeply into them as I continue to get this prepared for QC.

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't see Zoroark functioning very well in the current metagame, because changes brought forth by X&Y completely screw it over.

For context, Zoroark was never a heavy hitter in gen V, but it got by in standard because of it's great coverage and solid boosting moves. The introduction of Fairy-types severely hinders its ability to function in standard because it can't do anything against them. It's probably the only relevant Dark-type in the game that doesn't have the tools to deal with any of them, and that's really unacceptable on a Pokemon as frail as Zoroark (ie a Pokemon that should be able to OHKO Pokemon after it's set up). It's marginally decent speed is made even less relevant in a metagame where Talonflame, Excadrill, etc exist. The only sets that could conceivably work are the All out attacker set (with heavy attack investment) and the Swords Dance set.

As it stands, i'm strongly leaning towards a rejection.

 

[IloveslakingIGN]

I agree (though my opinion doesn't matter), after some testing I believe that rejection is in order, its just too frail and doesn't hit hard enough.

 

[Alter]

I don't see Zoroark functioning very well in the current metagame, because changes brought forth by X&Y completely screw it over.

For context, Zoroark was never a heavy hitter in gen V, but it got by in standard because of it's great coverage and solid boosting moves. The introduction of Fairy-types severely hinders its ability to function in standard because it can't do anything against them. It's probably the only relevant Dark-type in the game that doesn't have the tools to deal with any of them, and that's really unacceptable on a Pokemon as frail as Zoroark (ie a Pokemon that should be able to OHKO Pokemon after it's set up). It's marginally decent speed is made even less relevant in a metagame where Talonflame, Excadrill, etc exist. The only sets that could conceivably work are the All out attacker set (with heavy attack investment) and the Swords Dance set.

As it stands, i'm strongly leaning towards a rejection.

To be honest, I find the most effective sets would be All-Out Attacker and Choice Specs mainly because Zoroark can't do much in terms of setting up. I respect your opinion on Zoroark and I too find that it is severely limited and outclassed in the roles it would otherwise be able to perform. However, I think it is deserving of an analysis as it is the only viable Pokemon with access to Illusion and has amazing offensive stats. I don't think the introduction of Fairies and some speedier Pokemon are enough to nullify its formerly four viable sets into zero; it can still be a very effective Pokemon. Moreover, I think PDC's post in the index thread and Subject 18 adding it to the reservations lists can help testify its validity in OU:

zoroark is not bad. it still can act as a solid bluffer and with the buff of dark type dark pulse is much more spammable and a stronger dark pulse. fairy type IS annoying as always for dark types due to their ability to tank the hits very well. sadly unlike hydreigon zoroark lacks any way to get around them, but it can use illusion to its advantage and be able to bluff / possibly scare away fairy types if used with something like scizor. illusion as always is the main niche here, and it can be used to an advantage. certainly better than other pokemon on the list. not a bad pokemon and it as always has and probably will always have a niche in ou.

----

If there are any sets that deserve to be scrapped from its BW2 analysis I think they would be Nasty Plot & Swords Dance. Sure - they give it the power to sweep but the thing is Zoroark is simply too frail and not as strong as it once was to sweep. Giving it something to finish off foes or screw up walls is are its most effective roles as they make best use of Illusion and its stat distribution.

 

[PK Gaming]

I tested Zoroark on the ladder, and as far as I can tell there is absolutely no appeal to Zoroark in standard. I respect PDC's opinion, but I feel like he's off base on Zoroark's viability in OU. Illusion only works once per match, and it's effectiveness is dulled by the fact that Zoroark has low damage output (and you can't break through fairy-types at all). Base 105 Speed really isn't all that impressive in this metagame, and Zoroark's saving grace (Sucker Punch) is too weak.

QC Rejected (1/3)

 

[Bughouse]

I've been using Scarf Zoroark on the ladder and have been incredibly underwhelmed. Can't speak to the two sets you have listed.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I've been using Scarf Zoroark on the ladder and have been incredibly underwhelmed. Can't speak to the two sets you have listed.

Well Scarf Zoroark was always underwhelming in Gen V and since Zoroark only got worse in Gen VI, this is not that surprising.

Anyway, OP, I know I'm not QC so my opinion doesn't matter much, but I used Zoroark heavily in Gen V and right now I'm just not convinced. Steels don't resist Dark anymore? Cool. This doesn't affect Zoroark that much though since it didn't have a problem with them to begin with. Meanwhile, the mere existence of Fairies hurts Zoroark considerably since, as PK Gaming said, it can't do anything to them. Moreover, as it stands, PDC's post on its own doesn't prove jack shit about Zoroark's viability in XY OU, especially since there are no logs/replays to back it up. As it stands, if you want to convince anyone, you're going to need battle logs (and actually decent ones at that.)

 

[dragonuser]

In agreement with PK Gaming on this. Zoroark received no buffs this generation, in fact getting worse, when it was already pretty awful last generation.

QC REJECTED 2/3

 

[shadowyoshi64]

I might not help any, but I've been using Zoroark a lot in competitive play. Because it's attack stats aren't the greatest, I more work on a tricky role. I use Night Daze (I like the 40% accuracy drop), Taunt, Foul Play, and a coverage move, along with a Timid Nature, and a Focus Sash, so you can take a hit if no entry hazards are present. What makes Zoroark better user of Foul Play is that, your opponent with think you are some other Pokemon Use an attack on you, if you're using Focus Sash, you should live a single hit attack every time, and you'll hit them back with a STAB Foul Play. If you're faster than the opposing Pokemon (with a decent base 105 speed), then you don't have to take a hit. Taunt is good for stopping a Pokemon from doing any set-up or status moves. You can use Sucker Punch if you want, it works well with Taunt, if they don't switch out, though you might not do significant amount of damage for it to matter. The niche role for Zoroark is it always puts pressure on your opponent, and remove dangerous threats like Aegislash. Once it gets Trick It'll become a lot more viable in OU. As someone whose has used Zoroark most of 5th gen, and the majority of 6th, I can say that I think it's still possible for it to be viable for this gen, it just has to be used right.

You do need to add some good teammates for this Pokemon, because that's the only way it can perform well.

I'll also do some research for other possible sets that may be viable.

EDIT: Magic Bounce users can be great partners, as you can possibly disguise yourself as one.

 

[Alter]

While I disagree with your parts of your arguments (illusion is not limited to one use per battle so i don't know where you got that idea from), I'll allow this thread to be locked/denied. Hopefully, with the advent of poketransfer, zoroark might gain some viability.

thanks for the qc checks and your insight on this pokemon, dragonuser + pk gaming. feel free to move this to locked/outdated analyses unless for some reason a QC member really wants this analysis to go through.

 

[ferioku]

Come on guys, Zoraork isn't so bad, of course he doesn't have the best offence and isn't the fastest, you're forgetting that they still haven't introduced gen 5 mega evolutions. Also, before anyone says there won't be any gen 5 mega, game freak said that they will make mega evolution for all gens apart from 6th gen.

I bet Zoroark will be on the UU category, people just seem to hate it. Still has and will always be my favorite though >=O.

Zoroark has a lot of advantages IMHO.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Come on guys, Zoraork isn't so bad, of course he doesn't have the best offence and isn't the fastest, you're forgetting that they still haven't introduced gen 5 mega evolutions. Also, before anyone says there won't be any gen 5 mega, game freak said that they will make mega evolution for all gens apart from 6th gen.

I bet Zoroark will be on the UU category, people just seem to hate it. Still has and will always be my favorite though >=O.

Zoroark has a lot of advantages IMHO.

1) The lack of a Mega Evolution that may or may not happen, not to mention of it actually being good or not, is irrelevant to the actual Pokemon's viability at the moment. We want solid data.

2) Favoritism isn't exactly a grounds for viability either.

3) You haven't explained those advantages.

On topic, with everything that's being played in OU right now, I don't believe it should get an OU Preview. While I don't doubt it has more than a speck of viability there, current conditions are a bit too chaotic for it, so I'll move this.