Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

[Orcinus Duo]

A few reads

Town:
Ditto: Ditto’s been asking good questions, prodding inactives, etc. His posts on page 2 were pretty pro-town in that it discouraged all the random BS going around and arguably kept town on track by pointing out MB’s bandwagon.
Spiffy: Most of his posts concern confirming the NWO claim. While I am starting to see the logic behind NWO town, concerning spiffy: I’m pretty sure that scum wouldn’t want to put themselves in the limelight by associating themselves with someone under so much pressure at the time. He’s been asking good questions and promoting discussion, so I don’t feel that he’s scum at all.
Zorbees: I have no idea what he’s doing so ima put him here.
Engineer Pikachu: Good calls on nwo, not much else to go on.
nEsp: Looks town to me, but not much evidence right now. His posts were mostly reinforcing known opinions, not really contributing anything new. May be consciously flying under the radar, I’m not sure. Post 41 looks like a definite pro-town to me though.
Flamestrike: I believe he’s made two posts, 64 and 67, and both of them look solid to me.


Scum:
Aura Guardian: His reasoning in post 43 for NWO vote was crappy. “Voting one of the few people who’s been active” is not a scumtell, contrary to popular belief. Using that as an excuse to vote NWO over MB is hideous. Post 111 is defensive for…well, no reason at all. All throughout the game he’s been pushing wagons, and I find it interesting how his reactions under pressure are so bad. Also in that post, d) looks scummy. Let’s just lynch someone random and get the day over with (so mafia wont die). Jumping from NWO to MB in post 119 reinforces this opinion. AG is pushing the largest bandwagons pretty hard, always going for the lynch instead of trying to get information to help town. In my opinion, he looks scummy and let’s get him to L-1.
TalkingLion: For doubting NWO after no counterclaims (113). This is probably a scum trying to push a half-hearted wagon for a quick day lynch.
Njiggly: My god that reasoning was terrible (85). Also, BUDDYING TO THE MAX.
Metal Bagon: Bandwagoning, 107 is so hilariously OMGUS, and editing out his vote on page 2.

Slight Scum:
Empoof: We don’t have anything on empoof beside his two RVS votes, but if Njiggly is right and he is the brilliant player, NL is a very pro-scum move. However, I do want to hear empoof’s reasoning behind that vote first.
NWO: I don’t want to reiterate the arguments here. I’m still harboring thoughts on a mafia gambit, so I do approve of having two separate bandwagons, one on the lynch target and the other on nwo. His early game posts are very, very scummy (especially the one about ditto causing infighting).



No read:
Theangryscientist: Sided with AG on the NWO vote but not enough information to go on.
Maxim
Mithril
Auramaster: Hasn’t contributed anything particularly useful
Pokemaniac
Khz

Stupid:
Kok


The amount of noreads I have from people not posting is slightly ridiculous. Also, all of these reads are going on evidence we have right now (which honestly isn’t much).
EDIT: Walrein, you're missing koks vote for me.

 

[Ampharos]

Vote Tally

Aura Guardian (2): Empoof, Orcinus Duo
Metal Bagon (2): Aura Guardian, New World Order
TalkingLion (1): zorbees
Orcinus Duo (1): kingofkongs

 

[Aura Guardian]

Scum:
Aura Guardian: His reasoning in post 43 for NWO vote was crappy.

It was early game, so it wasn't like it was possible to have better.

“Voting one of the few people who’s been active” is not a scumtell, contrary to popular belief.

Considering what I saw happen to a village in NOC that died of inactivity, I wasn't about to take that risk. And the active people are likely to be easier to sort out later, so even if a mafia or two survives by activity, we can catch them more easily later.

Using that as an excuse to vote NWO over MB is hideous.

It was a toss-up in my mind (post 43), and I chose NWO since I felt he was *slightly* more suspicious than MB, since MB did give some *slightly* valid justification

Post 111 is defensive for…well, no reason at all.

As I recall, I explained my reasoning later... And one thing that is called is "being thorough."

All throughout the game he’s been pushing wagons, and I find it interesting how his reactions under pressure are so bad. Also in that post, d) looks scummy. Let’s just lynch someone random and get the day over with (so mafia wont die).

You are twisting my words severely. "Quick and decisive" does NOT mean "random" or "anyone." It means (to me) "efficient and accurate."

Jumping from NWO to MB in post 119 reinforces this opinion.

No, it reinforces voting for who seems the most suspicious, which I view as mandatory for speed and decisiveness.

AG is pushing the largest bandwagons pretty hard, always going for the lynch instead of trying to get information to help town. In my opinion, he looks scummy and let’s get him to L-1.

Pressuring suspects can get more information, which is one of the reasons for my votes (other reason: because they are suspicious). It just so happens that the largest "bandwagons" are the largest for a reason - they are against suspicious people.

Also, I should probably note that your long list of reads is akin to what mafia member FinnRagetti (IIRC) did in Peace NOCed.

 

[TalkingLion]

You claim that I'm scum for doubting NWO yet you yourself say that NWO might be scum? Thats not very good reasoning, and I said before that I was just trying to see how he would prove being the mayor.

 

[Orcinus Duo]

You lost me on that final sentence. That isn't even metagaming, that's...idk, grasping at straws to invalidate my read on you. For the record, list of reads is what I do in most games.

Voting NWO over MB is invalid because MB had just bandwagoned, something that you later said was scummy. I have nothing against being thorough, but your reaction wasn't just a clear headed, systematic rebuttal of points. Your tone, as far as I could read, said that you reacted very strongly to those votes, something that was unwarranted at the time.

What are your current reads on NWO/MB/myself?

@tl:

NWO, you keep saying that you can prove your role as mayor. Would you mind showing us this proof? You are acting quite suspicious at the time so it would be in your best interest to prove to us that you are village.

NWO has already offered to show us this proof. Furthermore, my scumread is mostly on you saying that nwo was acting quite suspicious recently. As far as I'm concerned, NWO was suspicious early game, but nothing he's done recently pushes him more towards scum. Also, EP has already spent a lot of time outlining how 'he would prove being the mayor', so all I can see in your post is an effort at pushing a nwo lynch. For the record, I don't want to lynch nwo, I think he's notably more town than other people here. However, I think that we should validate his claim anyways.

 

[khz]

Zorbees: I have no idea what he’s doing so ima put him here.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the definition of buddying, especially since you have no reasoning as for why you read him as town? This isn't an attack on zorbees, just your seemingly arbitrary read on him as town when you have a) no reasons why you think he's town and b) a no read list...

 

[Ampharos]

Since there is so much discussion going on, I have decided that deadline will be extended as long as discussion is still going on. Extensions will be announced on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Orcinus Duo]

Oh yeah i have a no read list.

I put zorbees there because I made town/scum before finding out that I had to make a no read. my bad, zorbees should be under noread (you can kinda tell from my justification lol).

 

[Metal Bagon]

OK, explaination time.

At the top of the last page my post was in my defence saying my bandwagon wasn't actually that fast because I was online for 30-40 minutes before I decided to vote.

If you guys want me to claim fully I'm osrry but I'm not allowed to post my role PM (see rules) however I will outline what it does if you guys want me to.

 

[khz]

OK, explaination time.

At the top of the last page my post was in my defence saying my bandwagon wasn't actually that fast because I was online for 30-40 minutes before I decided to vote.

If you guys want me to claim fully I'm osrry but I'm not allowed to post my role PM (see rules) however I will outline what it does if you guys want me to.

Any way you can prove that? Besides, I think the problem with your bandwagon was not that it was done soon after Empoof voted no lynch, but because you provided virtually no reason for why you supported it.

 

[Orcinus Duo]

no, let's not claim another power role.

We can't play follow the cop because we're already WIFOMing with that retarded mayor claim (unless we throw nwo to the wolves).

 

[theangryscientist]

I'm gonna have to sub out of this, I don't have enough free time to devote to mafia right now, sorry.

 

[zorbees]

The way I originally read TalkingLion's post re: mayor proof, I thought he was asking for a vote-off, not just asking how he could prove his role. I will unvote at this moment, because the way I read his post seems to be different than what was intended.

@Orcinus Duo: I'm trying to stop the conversation from focusing too much on one specific thing, because no matter how many times you say the same things, that doesn't make them more right.

Now, Time for Random Questioning Stage! These are to be answered by Nightmare Jigglypuff:

1) What is your read on Aura_Guardian?
2) What is your read on Spiffy?
3) What is your read on myself?
4) What is your read on Metal Bagon?

EDIT: Topic :D

 

[Aura Guardian]

You lost me on that final sentence. That isn't even metagaming, that's...idk, grasping at straws to invalidate my read on you. For the record, list of reads is what I do in most games.

I guess I'll have to take your word for that list of reads. And it was more of a mentions on how your list of reads was, to the best of my experience, a suspicious act in and of itself.

Voting NWO over MB is invalid because MB had just bandwagoned, something that you later said was scummy.

Did you miss reading the part where I said it was a toss-up? It's not like I can cast two votes at once.

I have nothing against being thorough, but your reaction wasn't just a clear headed, systematic rebuttal of points. Your tone, as far as I could read, said that you reacted very strongly to those votes, something that was unwarranted at the time.

I sometimes get that way when people put an underscore in my name. Also, zorbees was proposing a vote-off between me and an alleged mayor. Excuse me for not wanting to die (this was the major reason for said tone).

 

[zorbees]

Where did I propose such a thing? Also, I don't understand why you think list of reads is bad, because, despite Finn being mafia and doing a list of reads, all a list of reads really is is thoughts about the game described thoroughly, which you seem to like.

 

[Orcinus Duo]

@AG:

What are your current reads on NWO/MB/myself?

Can we start putting pressure on AG now?

 

[Spiffy]

No Metal Bagon do not public claim, there is no reason to.

And OD, I really don't think TalkingLion is acting scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is a newer user and just didn't understand what a mayor is and how it could be proven. In fact, there are a lot of new users playing in this game, which will make it much harder discerning between mafia and "noob town".

Without further ado,
Vote Maxim
Please post your thoughts!

 

[Aura Guardian]

@AG:


Can we start putting pressure on AG now?

Sorry, I missed that question. When I first read it, I assumed you were asking someone else, because I was skimming for your reply to my post and somehow missed that those paragraphs WERE your reply.

read on NWO: Too much uncertainty, now. I don't trust him, but I'm not certain that he can't be trusted... Could go either way.
read on MB: until his most recent post, almost certain mafia. Now, I'm not quite certain, though he could be mafia making a vague claim to get out from being lynched. Still really suspicious, overall.
read on you: Mafia, quite possibly. In no particular order, although you have justified your list of reads by saying you do it a lot in other games (which I have to take your word for), you've twisted my words some (such as subreason d), you list one of the major people I've voted as slightly mafia and another as probably mafia (paraphrasing your list's categories), you mentioned that you didn't figure out at first that you needed a no read category, yet you claim to make these lists a lot in other games, you voted me (and I know I'm clean), your RVS voting stage info request (ignored by everyone, IIRC) seems like mafia trying to figure out who to kill first, and you changed votes what seems to be even more often than I have (though to be fair, others change votes a bit, too). However, the reason I doubt the "mafia" verdict on you is that you seem to be somthing of a voice of reason. Which is the one reason my vote on MB stands.

Any one of those reasons alone could be coincidence. However, all of them together seems very suspicious to me.

EDIT: also signing off for the night; this is later than I usually go.

 

[Ampharos]

ARGH MY DESIGNATED SUB IS NOT RESPONDING TO MY PM

First person to PM me gets to sub for theangryscientist.

EDIT: Suddenly, theangryscientist encounters a lab accident and comes out looking exactly like Paperblade.

(Paperblade has subbed in for theangryscientist)

 

[Orcinus Duo]

In no particular order, although you have justified your list of reads by saying you do it a lot in other games (which I have to take your word for)
-Please explain why a list of reads is scummy

you've twisted my words some (such as subreason d)
-I've yet to twist your words, only interpreted your actions. You keep joining the biggest wagon, every single time. It looked like you were trying to hurry up an lynch someone, far from the accuracy you say you want.

you list one of the major people I've voted as slightly mafia and another as probably mafia (paraphrasing your list's categories)
-wtf at this 'scumtell' lol

you mentioned that you didn't figure out at first that you needed a no read category, yet you claim to make these lists a lot in other games
-in other games, half the village isn't inactive

you voted me (and I know I'm clean)
-if this wasn't a joke, OMGUS

your RVS voting stage info request (ignored by everyone, IIRC) seems like mafia trying to figure out who to kill first
-"In fact, there are a lot of new users playing in this game, which will make it much harder discerning between mafia and "noob town". " <-this is why I wanted the info. I'm new to this mafia community.

and you changed votes what seems to be even more often than I have (though to be fair, others change votes a bit, too)
-changing votes is definitely scummy.

You're still grasping at straws in an effort to invalidate my read on you. Any reason why this is?

 

[Lrr]

Greetings, everyone.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Since there is so much discussion going on, I have decided that deadline will be extended as long as discussion is still going on. Extensions will be announced on a case-by-case basis.

Will we have a fair warning (at least 24 hours before or something like that) of when deadline will be? I'd hate to go to sleep thinking that deadline wouldn't pass and wake up to find that it had passed while I was sleeping.

Anyways, I think MB is still pretty suspicious. "I'll give you a brief description of my role" doesn't exactly do anything to alleviate suspicion for me; for all we know, he could be stalling for time to get a false claim together or make sure his false claim doesn't coincide with his partners'. Of course, this is probably just me being paranoid right now, but it tells me... nothing.

 

[Ampharos]

Yes, you will have fair warning. Also, once deadline has been extended, it will not be shortened again except in the case of majority.

 

[Empoof]

Sorry for the inactivity and I hope I'll be able to post again later on tonight but it's been (and continues to be) a very busy weekend for me and I may not be able to respond as fast as desired. Also thanks Walrein for the extension.

I'm still getting used to the NOC format of having very little information to go off of. I originally thought that No Lynch could possible be a good idea when looking at the probabilities of hitting mafia but I understand now that it was a pretty noob move of me, sorry. I also wanted to get conversation moving since it had been 2 hours since the start of the game and noone had posted.

While I may have played "well" in my first mafia game, I'm realizing how different NOC is and it'll take some time for me to adapt. I'll try to help out anyway i can.

My thoughts so far:
NWO seems to be an (early claimed) mayor, seeing as there is no counterclaim atm, which would easily lead to finding our first scum.
Zorbees and Ditto seem town, nothing suspicious and only increasing our information.
Njig hasn't said much, while his buddying is a bit suspicious it's not nearly enough for me to judge right now.
Spiffy seems to be moving us in the right direction right now as far as i can tell
Metal Bagon trying to claim some power role as an act of defense kind of frightens me. Not sure what i think of him
Orcinus Duo and Aura Guardian are hard for me to get any sort of read on, and I'll have to analyze their posts more. I definitely encourage others to talk about these two though, they have posted quite a lot so there should be much information in there.

Still haven't heard from Maxim, and I know Paperblade just subbed in so when you've read over everything I'd like to hear your thoughts as well.

Feel free to ask me any questions

 

[Maxim]

No Metal Bagon do not public claim, there is no reason to.

And OD, I really don't think TalkingLion is acting scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is a newer user and just didn't understand what a mayor is and how it could be proven. In fact, there are a lot of new users playing in this game, which will make it much harder discerning between mafia and "noob town".

Without further ado,
Vote Maxim
Please post your thoughts!

Eh, what. Why are you voting for me all of a sudden?