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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by adv, Jul 15, 2012.
CB-Slaking all the way!
Well, it won't win, but building a team around Dragonite to show that Salamence doesn't outclass it would be cool
And thus the voting concludes, with the clear winner being Pocket's Metal Sound Zapdos. Stage 2 has begun. Stage 2 of this CCaT will simply involve choosing a playstyle for the team through another 48-hour voting process. Playstlyes eligible to be voted for are:
although if any of you can provide a case for a playstyle I've not mentioned here, all suggestions are welcomed. My vote lies with balance.
not sure there is much of a difference between balance, semi-stall and bulky offense in adv but i'm going to have to say semi stall since zap needs to have spikes down to do anything.
bulky offense w/ spikes
although bulky offense and balance are kind of the same thing
^ only real way to go imo
I favour balance as well, since spikes support will complement it nicely and MS Zappy is capable of forcing switches easily
Would be nice to see how bulky offense works in adv as well! :)
Yea, Spikes support would be appreciated on Zapdos, since all of its counters are grounded. Don't know how offensive or defensive it needs to get, but the team needs solid answers to Regice, Swampert, Raikou, and Snorlax, as well as TTar and Aerodactyl. Some Heal Bell support would be nice if Zapdos is using Rest.
Bulky Spikes sounds the way to go
OK - voting is closed for Stage 2, and our playstyle is: Bulky Offense with Spikes
Stage 3 of the process entails suggesting Pokemon which both work well alongside MSdos and fit the chosen playstyle. There is no time limit for this stage, it just depends on the activity level. I will allow six sets aside from my own - in this round you are disallowed from submitting multiple sets.
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef or 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) or Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Explosion / HP Bug / HP Ghost
- Rapid Spin
OK - I'll start the process off with my own suggestion. Well, "bulky offense with spikes" needs Spikes, so between the three main Spikers, I thought Forretress would be a good fit due to its ability to switch in and set up those Spikes on Regice, non-FB Snorlax (skarm can too but you know), and non-Flamethrower Blissey (bissey often carries CM and Tbolt, so skarm and cloy are perhaps not the safest of switch-ins), all of whom are grounded Zapdos counters. If we're going to be using HP Ice for Zapdos, it can also Spike up on non-HPump Pert. The set itself is standard - Spikes, Spin, EQ is very necessary on this set for complacent Magnetons switching in, although it could be removed depending on the other team members. Forry can either a'splode, HP Bug for Celebi, or HP Ghost for Gengar. (for the latter Forry may need some more ATK). I've left two spreads here, one physically defensive and one specially defensive - it will depend on the team.
EDIT: undisputed posted pretty much the same thing as me and im not quite sure what to do...
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Bug]
About as reliable as a spikes user comes. Can also provide Rapid Spin support for the team, obviously. Forretress can set up on Blissey, Regice, Swampert, non-FB Snorlax, Physical Ttar, and provide a pivot for switching out.
Another way to approach the team might be to pick the Spiker later judging by how the rest of the team is shaping up. Just for consideration.
What HP are we using on this Zapdos? Ice or Grass? Because I was thinking of a different take on a Luretar with Ice Beam.
It'd probably depend on what the other team members are, but I personally say Ice. Swampert will succumb to Toxic (if that's the chosen fourth slot) and Spikes damage a lot easier than Celebi would, to where you could just be patient and constantly hammer at it with HP Ice. Celebi, on the other hand, could be gunning you down with a CM set, where MS Dos just won't be able to break it quickly enough without some super effective damage.
I'd agree that the likelihood is that Zapdos will be using Hidden Power Ice, although it still is flexible and may change as the team develops. For now though, base your teammate nominations around the statement that Zapdos has Hidden Power Ice.
BTW, as the nominations of undisputed and I are so similar (we posted at pretty much the exact same time), I've decided to combine them as one nomination, and keep all three EV spreads nominated as options. I'll sort out the slashes as well.
Gonna suggest something different - Metagross. It's a decent answer to Ttar, Aerodactyl, Regice, and Snorlax; it can always blow up on Swampert, too.
Metagross @ Choice Band / Leftovers / Liechi Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
~ Meteor Mash
~ Rock Slide / Substitute
~ Explosion / Agility
HP Fire is nice to 3HKO Skarmory and 2HKO Forretress, but Metagross would have to go Brave with significant SpA investment. Needs more Spe EVs to reach 198 to outrun Jolteon and Aerodactyl if it's gonna Agility sweep.
CB/Lefties >>>>>>>> Leichi, Meta gets random attack raises anyway.
I'm gonna have to nominate Pert, since Zapdos and Pert compliment each other well.
Swampert @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 40 Sp. Atk
~ Ice Beam
~ Sleep Talk
I think Sleep Talk is the most viable option in the current state of Adv.
Liechi is for faking the CB, and IMO still goes well with Agility, if you aren't using Lum. I think it'd be better to use a Leftovers version, though, since Zapdos's number one counter at this point is Regice, and Metagross should be able to hold it at bay for as long as it can. That'd make less room for Forry/Skarm as Spikers, though, unless Cloyster is tossed in the mix.
Definitely need to include a Spinblocker, and I think Hypnosis Gengar is the way to go.
Gengar (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Ice Punch
And I guess Reflect/Light Screen should be considered to shield Zapdos. Snorlax already has trouble switching into Zapdos, I expect it'd be severely frustrated knowing it can't even do damage back to it.
If you really want Gengar to spinblock, I suggest a defensive one for the following reasons: you definitely don't need 252 SpAtk EVs, you must be able to take some hits from Heracross if the spiker is really Forretress.
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 80 Spd / 76 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Punch / Ice Punch
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis
This is directly taken from one of my teams. I don't really like the idea of Hypnosis there because of its great accuracy of...60, but if you guys prefer it, w/e. Also don't see how Ice Punch is that necessary, when Fire Punch will _try_ to stop Heracross as otherwise it would be basically one setup bait depending on the situation, and if it's a team based around Spikes, you basically need a bulky water in order to beat Salamence and others, so there you'll also obviously need Ice Beam or something.
I think explosion would be useful in gengar because it'd make a good way of baitexploding into Blissey/Lax/Regice.
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate
EVs: 212 Atk / 116 SAtk / 180 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Punch
Thanks everyone for your nominations so far for partners for MSdos - there are still 2 available spaces for nominated partners.
To clean up some minor issues - I will combine the two Forretress sets posted by undisputed and I, using his EV spread, but slashing Earthquake with Hidden Power Bug. I'll remove my kinda in-the middle nonspecific (in other words bad) spread from the equation altogether, but the option of a physically defensive spread will be kept open depending on the needs of the team. undisputed's specially defensive EV spread will be the one used in the voting process.
Of the three Gengar sets posted, I will be keeping DracoMalfoy's and Crystal_'s as separate nominations, as the two sets are very distinct from one another. The former is a dedicated spinblocker designed to keep the Spikes that MS Zapdos adores the support of intact, whereas the latter is more oriented towards baiting Blissey and Regice, and then Exploding to allow Zapdos to hit hard with powerful Thunderbolts once the premier special walls are cleared from the field. Umby - despite the fact that your set is the first Gengar nomination out of the 3, I feel as if the other two sets have more distinct roles in supporting MSdos than yours. Please don't take offence at this, but if you do, feel free to bring it up with me and I’m sure it’ll work out.
Also, don't be afraid to comment on other people's nominations - as well as nominating sets yourself, that's what this stage is about. Also, talking of this, I would like to put a case out there for slashing Substitute on MSdos. I have used Sub+MSdos in a past team of mine, and it works similarly to the Sub + Screechgon first popularised by Superman. In the current metagame environment, Sub + Screechgon is not as viable as it once was, often being eschewed for either 4 attacks, Sub + 3 attacks, or Screech + 3 attacks, but the difference between MSdos and Screechgon is that the former has less offensive move coverage to choose from. Admittedly, Sub + MSdos does suffer slightly in the current meta due to the ubiquity of sand which wears it down, but I feel that the pros outweigh the cons, and Substitute is as viable an option as any of the others listed. I’d like some opinions on this point, and if there is general agreement, I will slash it. Talk about other people’s nominations; keep nominating if you haven’t already; and keep an overall high level of activity and this will be a really fun forum establishment exercise. If you have any questions about the CCaT as a whole, don’t be afraid to PM/VM me (I don’t bite, apart from that one time...) Thanks.