Salamence - The Face of The Next Suspect, or Merely OU's Strongest Dragon?

[Staraptor Call]

Not being the highest in the statistics doesn't necessarily mean a Pokemon is broken. Deoxys-S and Wobb, the two Pokemon considered the most broken Pokemon to have ever been tested in OU, never reached the number one position. Wobb didn't even make it into the top ten. Saying that a Pokemon doesn't deserve a test because it isn't the most used isn't a valid argument.

Another argument for Salamence not needing a test, that Stealth Rock makes Salamence not broken, annoys me just as much. It's definitely possible to prevent your opponent from getting SR up in most situations. Scarf Breloom is faster than all the common leads other than Aerodactyl and Scarf Jirachi, and can put the opposing Pokemon to sleep on the first turn. Lum Berries aren't especially common on leads anymore, so most of the time, Scarf Breloom prevents the opponent from getting up Stealth Rock, or at least delays it. Aerodactyl can do the same thing with Taunt, and has the bonus of Taunt not being affected by Lum Berries. So it's possible to build your team to avoid having Stealth Rock laid on your side.

Without Stealth Rock up, Salamence becomes much more threatening, to the point of being Uber. All the Pokemon mentioned earlier as Mence checks can just be switched out of with minimal cost. This is especially true for Mixmence, because you get to immediately do damage on your free turn and not potentially waste a turn setting up a Dragon Dance when you'll have to switch out. When there is no SR on the Salamence user's side of the field, one misprediction from the defender can cost them one key Pokemon or more. But if the Mence user mispredicts, the cost is much less, because Salamence can be switched back in later and not take entry hazard damage in the process.

With all the controversy in this thread about whether Salamence fits the offensive characteristic, the best solution would be to conduct a Suspect Test for Salamence to determine who is right. The issue would not be settled definitively if Salamence were not tested.

 

[Alex_Dino]

By the way the poll is going, it just proves, once again, that the Policy reviewers know what they are doing, as the "It fits no characteristic" is close to reaching the critical margin for Suspect Test polls, 2/3 + 1%.


The point I'm trying to make is, they know what they are doing. And they have never tested Salamence as a Suspect, although I'm sure they've talked about it. In this poll I voted that it fits no characteristic simply because the higher-ups have decided that. I say this not to suck up, but because 20-30 people who are extremely knowlegable about Pokémon coming together and deciding something, for the good of the metagame, is better than a couple hundred amateur battlers (including myself) saying different.

Okay, I'm done here.

 

[MrIndigo]

By the way the poll is going, it just proves, once again, that the Policy reviewers know what they are doing, as the "It fits no characteristic" is close to reaching the critical margin for Suspect Test polls, 2/3 + 1%.

In my opinion, Garchomp should be OU. However, many others do not believe the same way I do, and as such, for the time being (Garchomp has been stated as a possible candidate for Suspect Testing round 3-3, although I doubt it will happen), Garchomp is classified as Uber.

Another opinion I have is that Scizor should be deemed Uber. However, again, most people disagree with this, and as such, as far as I know there has been no suspect test of Scizor whatsoever.

Both of the above outcomes happen because of the Policy Reviewers and Suspect Test Voters, all who are extremely talented at Pokémon.

The point I'm trying to make is, they know what they are doing. And they have never tested Salamence as a Suspect, although I'm sure they've talked about it. In this poll I voted that it fits no characteristic simply because the higher-ups have decided that. I say this not to suck up, but because 20-30 people who are extremely knowlegable about Pokémon coming together and deciding something, for the good of the metagame, is better than a couple hundred amateur battlers (including myself) saying different.

Okay, I'm done here.

While I agree with the bulk of the post, I have two things to point out; the 100 people WOULD have a stronger claim (assuming that they do competitively battle) than the 20 experts, because they're the ones who are playing the game. As was said, the regulation of the metagame is based on a motivation to make the game fun to play, and that means fun to play for the masses, not fun to play for a particular circle of friends.

(although I agree that the suspect committee have done a good job in making the metagame into something the masses want to play).

The second thing is that, as pointed out, Scizor's Bullet Punch iconography is resisted by every one of the Top 10 pokemon in OU EXCEPT Salamence. If Salamence was promoted to Uber, Scizor's usage would probably start dropping as it is Zonebait, and no longer effective against severely dangerous threats. It would probably still be used, maybe still in the top 10, but I doubt it would remain numero uno.

 

[Ulevo]

Edit: Disregard mah post here.

 

[JarardoMartino]

I find this hard to determine for it can go either way. It is true there is no counter to switch into Salamence but he can be easily revenged no matter how many DD he sets up: Ice Shard. Ever since scizor became the tyrant of OU, everyone thinks Bullet Punch is the only priority move worth while. Weavile and Mamoswine (hell, maybe even Abomasnow) can scare the dragon off and make him come in and take more stealth rock damamge. I'm suprised I don't see these guys more often if Sallymence is such a threat. (poor weavile, casted under Scizors shadow *sob*)

Also, we have to consider the reprocussions, with one less dragon in OU, steels that cause him trouble (Magnezone with HP Ice mainly) will go down in usage and maybe bring a rise in toxic spikers and toxic stallers.

Of course these are speculations and thearies. I really don't mind what goes down with him because i don't use him. All i'm saying is: Will banning Salamence to uber really save the metagame from a threat or will it usher in a new threat no one had forseen? Remember, Prohibition had good intentions but we all know what happened...

 

[Objection]

I am saying that if we go solely by the theories that are being posted here as to why Salamence should be Uber, then by those theories other pokemon are Uber. In other words, I want to know why you think Salamence is the only pokemon that fits your "why Salamence is Uber" theory (assuming that all other non-Ubers are not broken).

 

[YTP]

I hate these arguements about "easily revenge killed" because most attacks that will be hitting Mence after a dragon dance are weak. ScarfRachi's Ice Punch and Iron Head, Scizor's bullet Punch, ice shards ect. are not very powerful attacks, and in fact are easy setup oppurtunities for many other sweepers (this is support characteristic).

Lets take an Empoleon for example, he 4x resists all of those attacks and sets up an agility or two and then what? Salamence destroys your initial counter which is more often than not a bulky water so Empoleon is left a free path.

Its not the best example, because its extremely situational. But this is what Mence does, he opens sweeps for other pokes if he doesn't do it hisself. So I wish these little "easily revenged" arguements would stop. Remember, a poke has to die for Mence to be revenged.

 

[cantab]

Another argument for Salamence not needing a test, that Stealth Rock makes Salamence not broken, annoys me just as much. It's definitely possible to prevent your opponent from getting SR up in most situations. Scarf Breloom is faster than all the common leads other than Aerodactyl and Scarf Jirachi, and can put the opposing Pokemon to sleep on the first turn. Lum Berries aren't especially common on leads anymore, so most of the time, Scarf Breloom prevents the opponent from getting up Stealth Rock, or at least delays it. Aerodactyl can do the same thing with Taunt, and has the bonus of Taunt not being affected by Lum Berries. So it's possible to build your team to avoid having Stealth Rock laid on your side.

Without Stealth Rock up, Salamence becomes much more threatening, to the point of being Uber. All the Pokemon mentioned earlier as Mence checks can just be switched out of with minimal cost. This is especially true for Mixmence, because you get to immediately do damage on your free turn and not potentially waste a turn setting up a Dragon Dance when you'll have to switch out. When there is no SR on the Salamence user's side of the field, one misprediction from the defender can cost them one key Pokemon or more. But if the Mence user mispredicts, the cost is much less, because Salamence can be switched back in later and not take entry hazard damage in the process.

I agree to an extent. However, don't the Uber characteristics refer to "common battle conditions"?. It could be reasonably argued that common battle conditions include Stealth Rock. (It would be nice to have some stats on how often neither, one, or both players spends most of the battle under Stealth Rock.)
Uber characteristics also refer to "little or no effort". Keeping Stealth Rock away requires at least some effort.
If Salamence is only broken without Stealth Rock, then the things that prevent or remove Stealth Rock are arguably the suspects (under the support characteristic).

 

[Naxte]

I find this hard to determine for it can go either way. It is true there is no counter to switch into Salamence but he can be easily revenged no matter how many DD he sets up: Ice Shard. Ever since scizor became the tyrant of OU, everyone thinks Bullet Punch is the only priority move worth while. Weavile and Mamoswine (hell, maybe even Abomasnow) can scare the dragon off and make him come in and take more stealth rock damamge. I'm suprised I don't see these guys more often if Sallymence is such a threat. (poor weavile, casted under Scizors shadow *sob*)

Revenge killing isn't an argument. If the only way to beat it is to revenge kill it, then that means that it has done its job of taking out a Pokemon. That argument didn't fly for Garchomp, and it doesn't work for Salamance.

Scizor's really risky, as it can't safely switch into Mence, as it fears Fire Blast. Similarly, Weavile and Mamoswine have no business actually trying to switch into Mence, especially Weavile. They're just meant to revenge kill, and nothing more.

Also, we have to consider the reprocussions, with one less dragon in OU, steels that cause him trouble (Magnezone with HP Ice mainly) will go down in usage and maybe bring a rise in toxic spikers and toxic stallers.

If that happens, we'll deal with it then (and I don't even see why in the world that would be a problem at all. All you're saying is that the metagame will change, and not in any broken way, so I'm not seeing what's wrong there). You don't keep something broken around though, just to keep other broken things in check.

Of course these are speculations and thearies. I really don't mind what goes down with him because i don't use him. All i'm saying is: Will banning Salamence to uber really save the metagame from a threat or will it usher in a new threat no one had forseen? Remember, Prohibition had good intentions but we all know what happened...

Again, same thing. If something's broken, it should be banned. If that causes other things to become broken, so be it, we'll just ban those things too. You don't keep something broken around though, just to keep other broken things in check.

 

[Acritter]

I am saying that if we go solely by the theories that are being posted here as to why Salamence should be Uber, then by those theories other pokemon are Uber. In other words, I want to know why you think Salamence is the only pokemon that fits your "why Salamence is Uber" theory (assuming that all other non-Ubers are not broken).

You must have missed MY point entirely. The point is, people have made arguments as to why Salamence fits uber characteristics, and have not made them about Gengar. The arguments that you say work equally on Gengar take into account many other characteristics that Salamence has, and Gengar does not. Salamence has better stats and Dragon Dance, which gives it a completely different situation. Your argument is that because Mew is uber because of its movepool, Smeargle should be as well because of ITS movepool, completely ignoring the significantly lower stats. That a significant portion of people consider Salamence uber is enough to qualify it for A SUSPECT TEST, NOT the ZOMG INSANT UBER PROMOTION vote you seem to think this is. Nowhere am I saying Salamence is uber, I'm just saying that it deserves to be given a test which you seem to think will end up proving it to be uber (if you think it doesn't, then why not simply go through the test to confirm your beliefs?).

If Salamence is only broken without Stealth Rock, then the things that prevent or remove Stealth Rock are arguably the suspects (under the support characteristic).

Rapid Spin Clause!

 

[Objection]

You must have missed MY point entirely. The point is, people have made arguments as to why Salamence fits uber characteristics, and have not made them about Gengar. The arguments that you say work equally on Gengar take into account many other characteristics that Salamence has, and Gengar does not. Salamence has better stats and Dragon Dance, which gives it a completely different situation. Your argument is that because Mew is uber because of its movepool, Smeargle should be as well because of ITS movepool, completely ignoring the significantly lower stats.

Why then are some of Salamence's distinguishing characteristics that make it unique not mentioned in the original theories? To say "Salamence has no counters therefore it's Uber" is to say "Every pokemon with no counters is Uber". To say "Salamence is easy to revenge kill therefore it's not Uber" is to say "Every pokemon that's easy to revenge kill is not Uber".

In case it still isn't clear what my point is:

• Salamence's SR weakness alone does not make it not Uber.
• Salamence's lack of counters alone does not make it Uber - I brought up the Gengar example to prove this.
• Salamence's versatility alone does not make it Uber.
• Salamence's over base 100 attack and special attack alone do not make it Uber.
• The fact that Salamence can easily be revenge killed alone would not make it not Uber even if revenge killing was a valid argument in the first place.
• If Salamence is definitely Uber or definitely not Uber, it is NOT due to just one of Salamence's traits but a UNIQUE COMBINATION of traits.

Savvy?

You know what, let's put Salamence through a suspect test after all, because I put it to you that not one of the theories posted here for either side can be taken as correct.

 

[Quaily]

The second thing is that, as pointed out, Scizor's Bullet Punch iconography is resisted by every one of the Top 10 pokemon in OU EXCEPT Salamence. If Salamence was promoted to Uber, Scizor's usage would probably start dropping as it is Zonebait, and no longer effective against severely dangerous threats. It would probably still be used, maybe still in the top 10, but I doubt it would remain numero uno.

How did you come to this conclusion? scizor is used to counter latias as much as it is salamence, and latias does not resist bullet punch. Ttar is also weak to steel.

 

[blasphemy1]

You're missing the point I addressed. I am not suggesting we banned Garchomp due to his rank on shoddy, but that Garchomps rank on shoddy was as such because of the characteristics that made him Uber.

If Salamence were a problem, clearly he would be dominating the statistics the way Garchomp did. If you feel the need to explain to me the fallacy of that argument, then I encourage you to do so.

Salamence is dominating the statistics indirectly. Would we see Scizor at #1 if Salamence ceased to exist? Who knows? But one thing is certain, Scizor is used a lot of a lot more because it can revenge kill Salamence. Sure, it helps against Latias as well, but Tyranitar, Metagross, and Jirachi are all more effective checks, and can all support the team with Stealth Rock.

I'm going to stop comparing the two, and I suggest you do the same.

Usage(statistics) should be thrown out the window when considering a suspect. I will compare the number of steels to dragons in OU.

Dragons
2 | Salamence | 152911 | 20.95
3 | Latias | 148642 | 20.36
24 | Flygon | 55055 | 7.54
25 | Dragonite | 54725 | 7.50
29 | Kingdra | 49397 | 6.77

Steels
1 | Scizor | 224888 | 30.81
5 | Heatran | 141192 | 19.34
7 | Metagross | 122140 | 16.73
8 | Jirachi | 118266 | 16.20
9 | Lucario | 112819 | 15.46
20 | Magnezone | 61756 | 8.46
21 | Skarmory | 60542 | 8.29
28 | Forretress | 50051 | 6.86
31 | Empoleon | 44923 | 6.15
32 | Bronzong | 44676 | 6.12

There are two steels for every dragon in OU. What could possibly warrant this usage of steels in the current metagame? Well, let's take a look at Latias, the next highest on the usage list. Scizor, Metagross, Jirachi, even Magnezone, Skarmory, Forretress, Empoleon, and Bronzong, can be used as sufficient checks. Then there are pokemon like Blissey and Tyranitar, who can check her. What would warrant the use of all these different checks JUST for Latias? She isn't as diverse as Salamence, so I think this is fairly obvious.

The saturation of the OU metagame of steels and dragons IS attributed to Salamence. The majority of teams now run atleast 1-2 steels, sometimes 3. Because Salamence is such a diverse threat, teams need to prepare for it, but in my opinion this is a case where there is too much necessary preparation for a single pokemon. Because of Salamence's access to Earthquake and Fire Blast, most teams need to run multiple steels, so if they mispredict, they will not be slaughtered by Outrage.

I really don't know how to explain how Salamence is broken without comparing him to other dragons, as clearly dragon is the most dominant type.

 

[ultimifier]

Sure plenty of pokemon in OU have no "counters" like salamence, gengar, luicario, etc. But salamence is the only pokemon who can defeat most of his "checks" rather easily. Latias, scizor, scarfrachi, scarfgar, are "checks" for salamence, BUT NONE OF THEM CAN SWITCH IN SAFELY ON A COMMON SALAMENCE SET!

Any salamence "check" can get destroyed by a a fire dragon ground move which every salamence has. These so called "checks" are only "checks" once salamences moveset has been revealed.

For example, for lucario some common checks are scizor, salamence, gyarados, rotom, latias, gliscor, gengar, zapdos... and pretty much half of OU. although lucarios 4th move can remove some of these check (stone edge removes gyarados, crunch can remove non-scarf rotom) he cannot get past even a third of these checks without resorting to stop stupid ass gimmick set.

THIS is why salamence is different that any other OU sweeper

 

[epicmusicfan]

I can't see Salamence as Uber. It's true that he has extremely good stats, but he doesn't always get the chance to abuse them. Pokemon like Scizor can pretty much stop him in his tracks. (Speaking from experience, I have NEVER had any worse problems facing Salamence than, say, Metagross.)

Not only that, but he really is completely outclassed by Dragonite in the defense and support department due to Dragonite having higher defensive stats and larger movepool. Dragonite can survive a 4x Ice attack every now and then while Salamence (taking Intimidate into account) can only survive by pure luck.

Furthermore, unlike his partner-in-crime, Garchomp, he has a Stealth Rock weakness AND is susceptible to Sandstorm.

Finally, if we ban a Pokemon just because it is used frequently, then whatever replaces it might be banned and so forth, leaving us with nothing to use and might just take all the fun out of it. Everything would then be banned to ubers.

To sum up this rather long-winded post. He is the best OU dragon, but most likely not Uber.

 

[IK.]

Using "easily revenge killed" is a terrible reason to not test Salamence. The fact that it WILL take out a Pokemon and the opponent is forced to resort to revenge killing Mence is enough to at least give it a test. Also, Mence's versatility really give it a huge edge. With the MixMence the most common of Mences nowadays, DDMence can find so much more room to set up. Mences ability to rip apart stall, sweep teams, put holes into the opposite team, great stats and movepool is enough reason at least give it a test.

 

[cantab]

There are two steels for every dragon in OU. What could possibly warrant this usage of steels in the current metagame?

The fact that the type has 11 resistances and an immunity? And that many steels lose one or even two of their three weaknesses by ability, secondary typing, or both.
Add to that the fact that there are several good steel Pokemon. There are also several not-so-good ones. Out of 17 fully-evolved non-Uber steels, 10 of which are OU.
Whereas there are only 6 non-Uber fully evolved dragons. Five of those are OU.

 

[ultimifier]

I can't see Salamence as Uber. It's true that he has extremely good stats, but he doesn't always get the chance to abuse them. Pokemon like Scizor can pretty much stop him in his tracks. (Speaking from experience, I have NEVER had any worse problems facing Salamence than, say, Metagross. In fact, I've had far more trouble with Tyranitar than Salamence.)

Not only that, but he really is completely outclassed by Dragonite in the defense and support department due to Dragonite having higher defensive stats and larger movepool. Dragonite can survive a 4x Ice attack every now and then while Salamence (taking Intimidate into account) can only survive by pure luck.

Furthermore, unlike his partner-in-crime, Garchomp, he has a Stealth Rock weakness AND is susceptible to Sandstorm.

Finally, if we ban a Pokemon just because it is used frequently, then whatever replaces it might be banned and so forth, leaving us with nothing to use and might just take all the fun out of it.

To sum up this rather long-winded post. He is the best OU dragon, but definitely not Uber.

So you say you constantly stop salamence with scizor, but you have a harder problem with tyranitar than salamence. When you use logic like this no one is going to take your post seriously, as you clearly have no clue about what is going on.

Also, salamence is most likely going to be nominated for its support characteristics under the mix mence set.

Can we just let only suspect voters / PR members discuss this as over half of the arguments in this thread are shallow and have very little validity

 

[Orcelot005]

I think the main problem with Salamence is its ridiculous versatility. I know that are other pokemon that are extremely versatile such as Tyranitar and Jirachi but finding out their set probably isn't going to cost you a team member (or even the battle!) not to mention that both Tyranitar and Jirachi have hard counters no matter what set they run, and Salamence does not. I'd like to see Salamence tested, probably under the Support Characteristic.

 

[epicmusicfan]

Using "easily revenge killed" is a terrible reason to not test Salamence. The fact that it WILL take out a Pokemon and the opponent is forced to resort to revenge killing Mence is enough to at least give it a test. Also, Mence's versatility really give it a huge edge. With the MixMence the most common of Mences nowadays, DDMence can find so much more room to set up. Mences ability to rip apart stall, sweep teams, put holes into the opposite team, great stats and movepool is enough reason at least give it a test.

You're right about the first example being a poor example. (This is my first time posting here about this.) I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying he shouldn't be tested, I'm simply putting in my two cents about why he wasn't uber, If anything, he SHOULD be tested so we can put this to bed once and for all.

 

[Alex_Dino]

While I agree with the bulk of the post, I have two things to point out; the 100 people WOULD have a stronger claim (assuming that they do competitively battle) than the 20 experts, because they're the ones who are playing the game. As was said, the regulation of the metagame is based on a motivation to make the game fun to play, and that means fun to play for the masses, not fun to play for a particular circle of friends.

(although I agree that the suspect committee have done a good job in making the metagame into something the masses want to play).

I also agree with you, however, these hundered or so individuals may be mal-informed, new and as such inexperienced, or just vote for their personal preference based on other factors that have nothing to do with the reason for the vote (this is why democracy in America fails for the most part, but I digress...). However, if we have people who have proved themselves to be experienced to the masses, those said people should be already doing what the masses want as a whole. This is why the Policy Reviewers and Suspect Test Voters work so well, because they are doing what the majority of Smogon want. If there ever comes a time when this is not happening (however I doubt it will ever happen, most, if not all of the mentioned higher-ups are fully committed to the community as a whole), that's when things should change.

I guess my whole reason for posting in this thread is, simply put, this thread won't change anything. The higher-ups will ultimately decide what is best for the metagame due to their massive commitment to Smogon and Pokémon in general, which we all have seen and experienced. We should accept that for what it is.

The second thing is that, as pointed out, Scizor's Bullet Punch iconography is resisted by every one of the Top 10 pokemon in OU EXCEPT Salamence. If Salamence was promoted to Uber, Scizor's usage would probably start dropping as it is Zonebait, and no longer effective against severely dangerous threats. It would probably still be used, maybe still in the top 10, but I doubt it would remain numero uno.

Assuming this would happen, I myself predict that there would be a rise in usage of Scizor in Ubers simply due to the fact that Salamence would be promoted to Ubers. (Scizor, coincidentally, is already #8 in Ubers, nine places higher than Garchomp, but again, I digress.)

And as a rebuttal for Naxe's post:

Again, same thing. If something's broken, it should be banned. If that causes other things to become broken, so be it, we'll just ban those things too. You don't keep something broken around though, just to keep other broken things in check.

You do realize that using this kind of logic would eventually ban everything to Ubers. It would be achieved easily:

1. <Pokémon #1> has been declared broken. It is banned to Ubers.
2. <Pokémon #2> has risen in popularity due to <Pokémon #1>'s absence.
3. People start to question whether <Pokémon #2> is broken due to <Pokémon #1>'s absence.
4. A Suspect Test is initiated to test whether <Pokémon #2> is broken in the current metagame.
5. Inevitably return to step 1.

It is impossible for the Pokémon series to have a completely balanced metagame regardless of who is in what tier. However the above logic is not the way to deal with this issue.

 

[Sc4rfCh0mp]

I don't see what the huge problem is with Salamence. From experience, I've never had problems with Salamence against my team. There's a plethora of options that can be used against Mence. I'm talking about bulky waters, steels, Scarfers, Latias, Pursuit, Stealth Rock, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, pure physical walls (aka Hippowdon and Zong)... etc. If you don't have at least one of these on your team, then there's something wrong.

I also disagree with Naxte's logic, because with it, we'll have a scenario described perfectly by Poke Community's Dark Azelf:

Originally Posted by Smogon Ou Ladder in 9 months
Caterpie Used Tackle!
Weedle Used Posion Sting!
Caterpie was Poisoned !
Player 1: God i want that suspect now!

 

[epicmusicfan]

So you say you constantly stop salamence with scizor, but you have a harder problem with tyranitar than salamence. When you use logic like this no one is going to take your post seriously, as you clearly have no clue about what is going on.

Also, salamence is most likely going to be nominated for its support characteristics under the mix mence set.

Can we just let only suspect voters / PR members discuss this as over half of the arguments in this thread are shallow and have very little validity

Oops. That was a mistake. Now that I think about it, it doesn't make sense. Thanks for ponting that out.

Also. if inexperienced users such as myself don't post and get constructive criticism (as above), we can't get experienced enough to really help much.

As I stated above, I think he SHOULD be tested so we can put this to rest already.

 

[Alex_Dino]

Epicmusicfan:
The higher-ups are considering doing a Suspect Test for Salamence after they test the Suspect Clauses (more specifically the Evasion, Species, and OHKO Clauses). I read the Policy Review forum daily; it keeps me up-to-date with what they're doing, I suggest that everyone do the same. It allows you to see prime examples of constructive criticism and intelligent discussions while staying informed with what happens on Smogon.

 

[epicmusicfan]

Epicmusicfan:
The higher-ups are considering doing a Suspect Test for Salamence after they test the Suspect Clauses (more specifically the Evasion, Species, and OHKO Clauses). I read the Policy Review forum daily; it keeps me up-to-date with what they're doing, I suggest that everyone do the same. It allows you to see prime examples of constructive criticism and intelligent discussions while staying informed with what happens on Smogon.

Thanks for the advice. I actually did read that last night, and that's what got me jazzed into posting. (whether or not it was informative or not.:naughty:)