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Shiftry (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Gary2346, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Shiftry needs a revamp very badly.

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved: 3/3

    [​IMG]


    GP Approved: 2/2

    [Overview]

    <p>Although Shiftry would have previously never found itself on any serious OU team, Dream World changed that by giving Ninetales the ability Drought, allowing Shiftry to put its ability, Chlorophyll, to good use. With blazing fast Speed and decent offensive stats, Shiftry becomes a huge threat under the sun. Unlike most Chlorophyll sweepers, Shiftry has an outstanding movepool to help back up its impressive offensive stats, meaning that it is more than capable of running a successful mixed attacking set. On top of that, it even has access to Nasty Plot and Growth, making it a potent boosting sweeper. Shiftry's Dark typing allows it to beat Latias, who is very problematic for many other Chlorophyll sweepers like Venusaur. In addition, Shiftry's fantastic movepool lets it beat a myriad of other threats such as Tyranitar, Jirachi, Heatran, and Gengar.</p>

    <p>Shiftry is most definitely not without flaws. Its Grass / Dark typing is a double-edged sword, because offensively it's fantastic but defensively it gives it a weakness to very common attack types such as Fighting, Bug, and Ice. This is only made worse by its terrible defenses and weakness to common priority moves. It also faces stiff competition from other Chlorophyll sweepers, particularly Venusaur and Sawsbuck. Even with all these flaws, its ability to beat Latias, its access to a fantastic movepool, and its great offensive stats make Shiftry a great choice for many sun teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Sweeper
    move 1: Growth / Nasty Plot
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Dark Pulse
    move 4: Low Kick / Nature Power / Focus Blast
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With access to both Growth and Nasty Plot, it's no surprise that Shiftry can pose as a very threatening special sweeper. With its fantastic offensive typing and a seemingly endless movepool, it can hit most of the metagame for super effective damage. The choice between Growth and Nasty Plot depends on whether you are using Shiftry as a mixed sweeper or a full blown special sweeper. With Growth, Shiftry can boost both its Attack and Special Attack stat by +2 as long as it's in the sun. With Nasty Plot, Shiftry will always receive a +2 Special Attack boost, regardless of the weather conditions, so it's a more reliable boosting move altogether and the clear choice if you choose to forgo Low Kick and Nature Power. Giga Drain is a powerful STAB Grass-type move that decimates Water-types such as Jellicent, Politoed, and Vaporeon. It can also OHKO specially defensive Hippowdon at +2. Dark Pulse is Shiftry's secondary STAB and always OHKOes Gengar, Latios, and most importantly Latias at +2. Keep in mind that Shiftry's ability to beat Latias is one of its biggest advantages over Venusaur, who would otherwise give this set huge competition. The last moveslot is pretty interchangeable and depends on what you want Shiftry to beat the most. With Low Kick, Shiftry has a reliable Fighting-type move that KOes Tyranitar without any boosts and also does solid damage to both Blissey and Chansey. Nature Power has similar coverage but with the added bonus of hitting both Tentacruel and Jirachi for super effective damage. It can also always OHKO max HP Heatran without any Attack boosts. Last but not least, Focus Blast should be used if you decide to use Nasty Plot over Growth despite its lower accuracy, as it gives Shiftry a special Fighting-type move to deal with everything that Low Kick normally would. It should be noted that Focus Blast can OHKO Ferrothorn at +2, something that Low Kick cannot do.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shiftry's EV spread is designed to outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Latios, and the rest is dumped into its Special Attack and bulk. If you are paranoid about not outpacing opposing Shiftry and Venusaur, then you could choose to fully invest in Speed, but it's not really worth the drop in bulk. If running Growth, Sucker Punch can be used over Dark Pulse to KO Mamoswine after Stealth Rock at +2, but it's a very unreliable STAB move and could potentially allow Latias and Gengar to set up a Substitute. Because the last moveslot is essentially expendable, Hidden Power Fire is usable if you want to OHKO Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress without having to rely on Focus Blast, but it lacks any sort of useful coverage beyond that. Grass Knot can be used to OHKO physically defensive Hippowdon and Tyranitar without a boost, but Giga Drain is a much more reliable choice.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is obviously a required partner for Shiftry, or else there wouldn't be much of a reason to use it. Shiftry needs that permanent Sunny Day from Drought in order to make maximum use of Chlorophyll. Shiftry has amazing coverage, but there's always something out there that can wall it no matter what you choose for its fourth moveslot. Most of the time, Shiftry will have a problem breaking through Skarmory and Forretress if it's not at +2, so pairing it with a Fire-type like Heatran, Victini, or Infernape can help alleviate the problem. Infernape is a fantastic partner in general, as it can also break through Blissey and Chansey with Close Combat. Choice Scarf Chandelure might seem like an odd Pokemon to recommend as a partner, but it's actually pretty good. It's either immune or resistant to every form of priority that threatens Shiftry and can threaten Breloom, Scizor, Lucario, and Mamoswine with a OHKO from a STAB Fire Blast.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Mixed Offense
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Low Kick / Nature Power
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Shiftry can take advantage of its great attacking stats and amazing movepool by running an all-out mixed offensive set. Unlike Shiftry's boosting sets, this set isn't meant to sweep; it's meant to put immense offensive pressure on the opposing team through coverage and speed. It's also one of the only Chlorophyll sweepers sun has access to capable of beating every other permanent weather inducer in the tier with the help of just four moves. Leaf Storm is the most powerful STAB Grass-type moves Shiftry can learn, and its raw power can easily plow through Water-types like Politoed and Jellicent and KO physically defensive Hippowdon after Stealth Rock. Although the massive Special Attack drop will sometimes force Shiftry to switch out, this set doesn't mind nearly as much as some others due to it not being strictly specially offensive. Sucker Punch is Shiftry's best Dark-type STAB move, and thanks to its boosted priority, Shiftry can still pose a massive threat to Starmie, Latias, Latios, and Gengar even outside of the sun, preventing it from being easily revenge killed. Low Kick is primarily for Tyranitar who can actually survive a Leaf Storm and threaten to KO with Stone Edge. It's also for the occasional Blissey, who will often try to switch in on a Leaf Storm. Nature Power misses out on KOing Tyranitar, but it can KO Heatran, which is a huge plus. It also hits Jirachi and Tentacruel harder than anything else. The last move depends on what you want Shiftry to handle the most. Hidden Power Ice gives this set a reliable answer to Dragon-types and some other threats, easily KOing Dragonite, Garchomp, Salamence, and even Landorus-T. This is important because pretty much every single one of them can take at least one hit and KO back. Hidden Power Fire is an option if you want Shiftry to deal with Steel-types more reliably, but its coverage is somewhat redundant, as most sun teams carry a lot of Fire-type moves anyway.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is designed to outspeed Timid Choice Scarf Latios and invests everything else into Special Attack and Attack. Because this set lacks the raw power of sweeping sets, Stealth Rock support goes a lot further in weakening the opponent to a point where Shiftry can secure KOs against certain threats, such as Volcarona, Dragonite, and Skarmory. Donphan and Forretress are good defensive options that can provide Stealth Rock support, and both have the added bonus of being able to use Rapid Spin. Ninetales is something that should always be partnered up with Shiftry, or else it will remain slow throughout the entirety of the match. Mamoswine is a decent partner because it can KO Breloom with Ice Shard and can also handle Gliscor, Dragonite, and Landorus-T if Shiftry is running Hidden Power Fire instead of Hidden Power Ice. Choice Scarf Chandelure is always something to consider partnering up with Shiftry, as it can come in on almost any priority move and threaten to fry the opponent with a STAB sun-boosted Fire Blast. Infernape is a decent partner because it can beat Blissey and Chansey.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Choice Specs set is viable, but it's outclassed overall by Tangrowth. An all-out physical sweeping set with Swords Dance / Seed Bomb / Sucker Punch / Low Kick is also definitely viable, but it faces a lot of competition from both Sawsbuck and Jumpluff. Shiftry has a huge offensive movepool, but most of its moves are rather weak or provide redundant coverage. Energy Ball is slightly more powerful than Giga Drain, but it lacks the useful healing secondary effect that Giga Drain has. Unlike Low Kick, Brick Break deals a consistent amount of damage, but it can't OHKO certain things like Tyranitar and Heatran. X-Scissor can be used to hit opposing Grass- and Dark-types harder than anything else, but it overall provides redundant coverage. Synthesis restores 2/3 of Shiftry's HP in the sun, but Shiftry is too frail to ever find a good time to use it.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Like most Chlorophyll sweepers, Shiftry can be quite a problematic Pokemon to deal with while under the sun due to its extremely high Speed and near perfect coverage. By far, the easiest way to deal with Shiftry is through priority moves. Adamant Mamoswine has a chance to KO Shiftry after Stealth Rock with Ice Shard, and Breloom will always KO with Mach Punch. Scizor does a massive chunk to Shiftry with Bullet Punch, and if Shiftry lacks Hidden Power Fire, then Scizor can just threaten to KO it with U-turn. The special sweeper set is pretty much impossible to counter, especially after it manages to set up a Growth or a Nasty Plot. Jirachi can tank at least one Dark Pulse and threaten to paralyze Shiftry with Body Slam, but it fears both Nature Power and Hidden Power Fire. Chansey is bulky enough to avoid the 2HKO from Low Kick and can threaten to paralyze Shiftry with Thunder Wave. Politoed, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow can cancel out the sun, thus neutralizing Shiftry's Speed. Keep in mind that Shiftry still has the potential to actually beat all three of them one-on-one. Bulky Dragonite can take any hit from Shiftry bar Hidden Power Ice and proceed to KO it the next turn with Fire Punch. Swords Dance Virizion is one of the best checks to Shiftry in the game, as Shiftry can only beat it with Hidden Power Fire and Virizion can switch into Dark Pulse to get a Justified boost. Toxicroak is another decent check to Shiftry because it resists both of its STAB moves, but it's heavily crippled by sun due to Dry Skin.</p>
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  2. Psylink

    Psylink

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    The All Out Mixed Offense needs to be combined with Growth imo, but make sure you mention the difference between Growth's power and Hidden Power's extra coverage.
  3. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I'm going to leave that up to the QC. I've had varying success with the All-Out attacking set, and I've been told by a few people to include it. It's main variation from the Growth set is Leaf Storm and the ability to run maximum coverage without a needed turn of setup. It's still good. The Growth set is so good that I feel that it should be its own set entirely.
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    SD Adamant Sawsbuck is stronger, faster, bulkier, KOes everything that Shiftry does at +2 (Gengar is OHKOed 75% of the time after SR by Horn Leech), and has an awesome STAB that lets it offset LO and possible Double Edge damage, meaning that the only reason to use Shiftry is for Sucker Punch, which is unreliable and not good enough to deal with the priority users of OU, as Breloom and Scizor can easily tank even one at +2 and OHKO back with their own priority, Dragonite bypasses it with Extremespeed, and only Mamoswine is really taken care of, while many Pokemon that resist your other moves can take advantage of you when using Sucker Punch (Gengar, SubCM Latias, Perish Song Celebi, Sub Thundurus-T, and even Venusaur with Sleep Powder). SD is OO material so you should move it there.

    The other sets seem fine for now, just be sure to stress how much competition this thing gets from Venusaur (which is the best choice 9 out of 10 times) and how its real benefit is dealing with Latias + Heatran with one set, something that Venusaur can't do.
  5. Hemp Man

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    Don't forget Hippowdon!
  6. Spirit

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    This analysis seriously fails at grasping Shiftry's actual niche. Shiftry has serious competition as a Chlorophyll user, not only from Venusaur, but from things like Sawsbuck, Jumpluff, Victreebel, and Exeggutor. That needs to be stressed, as it's not OU and you actually want to know why this thing should even be used. Sawsbuck outclasses the Swords Dance set for the reason's alexwolf mentioned and I seriously don't even get why you considered a piss weak Faint Attack for the primary slash... Jumpluff also outclasses the Swords Dance set (believe it or not) b/c of its superior Speed, slightly better bulk, Mach Punch resistance, and Sleep Powder. Victreebel and Exeggutor outclass the all-out attacker set because they have better coverage, power, and Sleep Powder. For the all-out attacker set, it's either kill or be killed (in Shiftry's case). Its weakness to common priority moves, pathetic bulk, mediocre offenses (100 / 90 is not "great") and lack of sleeping move are all real turnoffs. At least Eggy and Victreebel resist Mach Punch and have good bulk (in Eggy's case) and can Sleep Powder something they can't KO (which essentially is a KO in hindsight). Its only advantage over the two is its Speed, which isn't enough to secure a set imo. Shiftry's niche is being a Chlorophyll user that can beat both Latias and Heatran simultaneously w/o resorting to obscure shit. The all-out attacker set fails to do that, as Latias can tank a Dark Pulse and KO back with HP Fire in the sun and Balloon tran can tank a Low Kick and OHKO. The only set that really fulfills Shiftry's niche is the first set, everything else needs to be removed (I'd suggest all-out attacker and Nasty Plot in AC; give those sets a paragraph or something and Swords Dance to OO). The Nasty Plot set seems kinda redundant to me, it's too similar to the Growth set. But if QC decides to keep it, I think Focus Blast should be the primary slash so that you can beat Heatran (Hidden Power Fire makes you walled by Heatran, which isn't supposed to happen b/c Shiftry's niche as that it beats it). As a rule of thumb, unless the "leftover" HP or Attack evs let you survive/KO something important/relevant, always go for max Speed so that way you can Speed tie with other Shiftry and outspeed Venusaur while weird shit like Scarf Starmie don't outspeed and KO you. I'd also mention how hard it is to set up b/c of its bad typing and bulk, but that's just me.
  7. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Okay, I've talked to PK and ginga, and we had a couple of agreements and disagreements, but I'll just say what I think first. I personally think that one of Nasty Plot and Growth is redundant, and I think Nasty Plot is better. I don't really find Low Kick or Nature Power to be necessary, since Shiftry does get Focus Blast to kill Tyranitar and Heatran. You can heavily damage Jirachi with HP Fire if that's what you desire as well. I don't think Shiftry needs to go physical apart from against the blobs, so I don't see the point for Growth. Nasty Plot does guarantee that you get a +2 Special Attack boost, unlike Growth. This could potentially work in your opponent's favour since they can do stuff like switch Politoed into Nasty Plot, then go straight to Jirachi or something. It also saves you some bulk, since instead of 72 Atk, you can run 72 HP without a defense lowering nature, which could potentially save you from being OHKOed by like bulky SD Scizor's unboosted Bullet Punch or something. The downside is obviously not being able to kill blobs as easily (which isn't TOO bad these days since blobs suck, even then Low Kick only hits them for 60 BP), and having to use Focus Blast. Basically, it's a trade-off between "not having to rely on Focus Blast" and "saving some bulk and not being weather dependent on your boosting move".

    Otherwise, SD is pretty mediocre. I guess you have STAB Sucker Punch, but other Chlorophyll Swords Dancers are better.

    Basically, I think we can cut 4 sets to 2, with either Nasty Plot or Growth (whatever the majority of QC thinks), along with the all out attacker. Swords Dance into OO.
  8. BKC

    BKC
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    ditch the SD set.

    if you guys really want to cut down, just merge the growth/nasty plot sets together, they're pretty similar.

    otherwise this looks fine.
  9. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Okay, I will remove the SD set and put it in the OO. I will wait to change the Growth/Nasty Plot set because I am unsure whether to merge the two or just outright remove one altogether. Personally I've always liked the Growth set because Low Kick is nice to have against Tyranitar and Heatran, without having to rely on Focus Miss. It's up to QC though.

    @Icecream: I don't understand how you can't tell Shiftry's niche by looking at this analysis. The biggest advantage Shiftry has over other Chlorophyll users is his ability to deal with Latias, Latios, Gengar, and Heatran in the same set, something that Venusaur can't really do. This is just the skeleton stage, so it's not like I can go into great detail about its niche until then. If you read this thoroughly, you should be able to tell that Shiftry's niche is its ability to beat out common headache Pokemon that Chlorophyll users can't really deal with, such as Balloon Heatran, the pink blobs, Latias, and Gengar. I couldn't have been more clear. Also, Faint Attack may seem weak, but it actually KOs everything it needs to KO at +2, such as Latias and Gengar. It may seem weak, but as long as it gets the job done, I don't see why it shouldn't be included.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I agree with shrang that the NP and Growth sets should be merged. They play the same but have a few different checks and counters depending on the last move. In the last slot there should be Low Kick / Nature Power / Focus Blast in any order you like, with Hidden Power Fire in AC, as Shiftry really wants to take advantage of its pros over Venusaur, namely the ability to get past Latias and Heatran.

    Also, remove the parts where you say that Venusaur can't get past Gengar and Latios, as it easily OHKOes both of them at +2.
  11. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Fixed everything. Merged the Nasty Plot and Growth sets. Added SD to OO.
  12. BKC

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    qc approved 1/3
  13. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    When writing this, please do hype up Shiftys Dark / Grass STAB as atm, its prolly THE reason why id use it in this meta. The current metagame is centralised about Lati@s and Celebi (being your standard Keldeo + Landorus checks) and Shifty owning them is pretty cool. In addition, threatening the crap outta every other weather starter is really good, and as a bonus you have Fighting coverage for Ferrothorn, ur other common water resist. I think the current meta is about as kind to shifty as we are really going to get rofl so promote it now I guess before we start banning Keldeo and Landorus xD
  14. AJC

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    you sould point out that although t-tar/hippo/poli/aboma do remove sun your still faster than these even out of sun and can still KO them pretty easy unless t-tar/poli/aboma are scarfed.

    low kick destroys t-tar stab grass to get poli and aboma also gets hit hard by Low kick (100 BP on it) or focus blast or if you want HP fire.
  15. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Every QC change has been implemented. All I need is one more QC check so I can get this bad boy written up.
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  17. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    is this getting worked on??
  18. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Alright I'll get this written up as soon as I can.
  19. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Finished writing this up.
  20. tehy

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    Hey

    If Swords Dance is just an OO, is it really worth mentioning in the overview? Also, i'd mention Latias and Heatran as the two pokemon other Chlorophyllers have problems with;that seems to be Shiftry's biggest niche, so it makes sense to mention them both in that part of the overview, rather than just Latias.

    NP's for Focus Blast only, not just for 'not low kick', since Nature Power is slashed second, right?

    Does Giga really OHKO ttar at +2? Impressive if so, but somehow i doubt it. (Luckily low kick/focus blast trashes tyranitar, so no worries there.)

    As for Focus Blast; the only reason to run NP is if you're already using Focus Blast, but you spin it like you should use Focus Blast if you're already using NP, which shouldn't be your train of thought. And the reason for Focus Blast is because it's stronger with the Special Attack evs, right, KOing ferro as you say, so i'd use that as your rationale.

    Maybe mention that Leaf Storm Ohko's SpD hippo 81.25% of the time? A bit more relevant, yeah?

    Does it really matter that Mamo takes care of Gliscor and Landorus-t? Leaf Storm does plenty to them anyhow

    Hey, Shiftry doesn't have to use Leaf Storm on a specs set;maybe just say it's outclassed by tangrowth and leave it at that.
  21. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Okay I cleared up a few things to make them a bit less confusing in the OP like you wanted. By the way, I did mention that Shiftry can beat Heatran in the overview, I just didn't stress it as heavily as I did Latias (Latias is MUCH more of a problem then Heatran is to most Chlorophyll sweepers). Also, here's the calc proving that Tyranitar is indeed OHKO by a +2 Giga Drain:

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 359-424 (88.86 - 104.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    I just made sure to add "after Stealth Rock" in the OP.

    Thanks!
  22. tehy

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    Well thank you for all that but:

    You didn't really fix the whole Nasty Plot thing. That's pretty worrisome, because you can still run Nature Power and use Growth. In fact Nature Power is slashed before Focus Blast, so saying you should use Nasty Plot if you're not using Low Kick doesn't make any sense-maybe you're just using Nature Power? Also, the way you write the Focus Blast section implies you decide to use Nasty Plot, then use Focus Blast. But really, your writing should tell people you decide to use Focus Blast, then Nasty Plot, because you don't want people using Nasty Plot unless they've already decided to use Focus Blast.

    Also, Shiftry trashes Gliscor and Landorus-T with Leaf Storm alone;even the bulkiest Smogon sets take like 80% and are 2HKO'd. So why mention that Mamoswine is a helpful partner to take care of them? Mentioning that it beats Dragonite is a great point (You could also mention it helps against Salamence and Thundurus-T), but Gliscor and Lando-T don't really trouble Shiftry all that much

    (And apparently, Shiftry OHKO's SpD hippo after Rocks with Leaf Storm 100%, so no reason not to mention that, really.)

    Oh yeah, now that i see, you should only say it's after rocks for Tar if you can manage it, since i'm fairly certain it Koes hippo regardless.

    Edit:Lol, i thought it looked off. (The GK calc is probably off too, then)
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  23. SpareAacount

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    Just saying, but that SpD Tyranitar calc vs. Shiftry is totally incorrect because sand was not in effect.

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 242-283 (59.9 - 70.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  24. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I have no idea why my calculator wasn't factoring that in. I thought it was a little fishy. Thanks for clearing that up.
  25. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Minor nitpick, but I potentially prefer HP Ice slashed before HP Fire in this case (on the all out attacking set). HP Fire is great, because hitting Ferro and Skarm is really useful, but the flipside is that you really really do struggle against DD Dragonite, which id actually worry about more than Ferrothorn and Skarm due to my fire types as well as my spinners / magic bounce users which make hazards less of a threat. IDK it might be solely personal preference, but at least Low Kick and Nature Power cover some steels, and I just hate being so walled by one of the most common sweepers in the game. If other QC members would weigh in on this that would be nice.

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