He did also say that every type would have the same number of resists and weaknesses, right? So Dark would probably be less scary than you think.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Skillmons [Coming back soon™]
- Thread starter Joim
- Start date
Noting that.
I'm just balancing the existing moves to get the luck element out, not creating new moves or boosting totally OK moves for no reason at all. BP increases or decreases all come due to accuracy changes.
I ditched that (since I'll include that on Gen 6 Joimmons), I'm attempting for a 0% luck meta with the least changes possible.
I'd just like to point out sniper and super luck are luck based abilities you missed
I've edited in the critical hit abilities.
did notice one mistake.
stick is listed under abilities
stick is listed under abilities
Oh man! Compund eyes Vivillon! *Reads Hurricane* Oh.... never mind.
So is Hone Claws effectively swords dance now?
So is Hone Claws effectively swords dance now?
When two players with identical teams send out the same Pokemon, who goes first?
Thinking from a chess perspective, it's inevitable that one player has to move first. This can be awarded to the player who made their move quicker but like anything that's fair, is a possibility for a tie. I thought of placing a marker on one player that alternates to the other player after each turn, whoever has the marker goes first in the case of a speed tie. (There would still be some randomness to who gets the marker on turn 1 though)
I also think the burn points system for Scald makes Protect a bit overpowered. Say a player has 68 burn points on Alomomola (knows scald) and the opposing player has a Ferrothorn out (knows protect), it becomes a mind game for both ...... except the Ferrothorn player has the advantage here. Should they mispredict and not protect, they get the expected burn (which is fair). But if Alomomola mispredicts and scalds into a protect, they don't get the burn (which is fair) AND have their burn points reset - it won't get to burn anything for another 2 turns. IIRC burning with scald in normal play is somewhat unreliable but not unreliable to this extent. I think either protect should only cause some points to reset, or get dirty implementing a 3-level "semi-burn" status and give scald 100% chance to semi-burn (which has its own problems too).
But overall what I think is you should work on easy-to-fix mechanics first (removing crits etc) and release that as a metagame with scald etc working as they normally do -- the less changes made the more familiar the metagame is, and the more players will be interested. Only when that's done should you go on to completely removing all luck elements; at least that's what I think. Keep up the great work btw =]
Thinking from a chess perspective, it's inevitable that one player has to move first. This can be awarded to the player who made their move quicker but like anything that's fair, is a possibility for a tie. I thought of placing a marker on one player that alternates to the other player after each turn, whoever has the marker goes first in the case of a speed tie. (There would still be some randomness to who gets the marker on turn 1 though)
I also think the burn points system for Scald makes Protect a bit overpowered. Say a player has 68 burn points on Alomomola (knows scald) and the opposing player has a Ferrothorn out (knows protect), it becomes a mind game for both ...... except the Ferrothorn player has the advantage here. Should they mispredict and not protect, they get the expected burn (which is fair). But if Alomomola mispredicts and scalds into a protect, they don't get the burn (which is fair) AND have their burn points reset - it won't get to burn anything for another 2 turns. IIRC burning with scald in normal play is somewhat unreliable but not unreliable to this extent. I think either protect should only cause some points to reset, or get dirty implementing a 3-level "semi-burn" status and give scald 100% chance to semi-burn (which has its own problems too).
But overall what I think is you should work on easy-to-fix mechanics first (removing crits etc) and release that as a metagame with scald etc working as they normally do -- the less changes made the more familiar the metagame is, and the more players will be interested. Only when that's done should you go on to completely removing all luck elements; at least that's what I think. Keep up the great work btw =]
At the very least knowing who has the marker in their favor in the case of deciding randomly would be good to know. In other words, if there is no good way to stay who goes first due to the speed tie, tell players.
Having a whole little marker system in place that only happens in the relatively rare circumstance of 'same Pokemon with identical team' seems like a little too much. It might be necessary though, hmmmm....
You could definitely reduce speed ties even more though. Right now it seems like you can run into speed ties by just running the same lead with the same EVs, since your team sizes will certainly be the same. So you could cut that out by having "total amount of speed on your team" be a tiebreaker. At that point I think the only time a speed tie would ever feasibly happen is if you're literally running the same team. In that case it seems like such an edge case that it could be okay to just make it a coin flip.
You could definitely reduce speed ties even more though. Right now it seems like you can run into speed ties by just running the same lead with the same EVs, since your team sizes will certainly be the same. So you could cut that out by having "total amount of speed on your team" be a tiebreaker. At that point I think the only time a speed tie would ever feasibly happen is if you're literally running the same team. In that case it seems like such an edge case that it could be okay to just make it a coin flip.
A question about Skill Link: Isn't that ability pitifully weak now? I'd see nothing wrong if it still made those attacks hit 5 times.
About as deterministic as rock paper scissors, but it's certainly simpler.
Name starts with series of "0"s new meta.
Player name is a good idea, provided any given name has 50% chance of beating another random name (lol definitely not alphabetical order, that's biased towards As/0s). It has to be something where you cannot increase your chances by changing your name......yeah unless you already know what your opponent's name is. I'm sure these algorithms have been done before but I don't know of any myself.
Btw,
Otherwise you might as well call this Gen 6 Joimmons.
There's no need for a marker to be shown as there'll be enough information to figure out who has it. If the usernames result in your opponent getting the marker on turn 1, you know they have it whenever the turn number is odd. Likewise it's yours when it's even.
Btw,
Are these really necessary? Sounds a bit Gen-NEXTy for me. I think generic rules is the way to go, like if accuracy < 100% then basePower *= accuracy. Whenever possible you want to avoid creating a learning curve so a competitive player can jump right in, without having to memorize a bunch of new numbers/mechanics/etc. If something ends up overpowered it can just be banned the traditional way.
Otherwise you might as well call this Gen 6 Joimmons.
Last edited:
The base power was higher due to accuracy, if I do what you suggest then there will be basically no difference between Surf and Hydro Pump or Flamethrower and Fire Blast. I'm just following what the game already does and instead of lowering the accuracy of "intermediate" high BP moves, I add half the effect of high BP moves: -1 drop instead of -2 drop. The same can be said for recoil only there's actual examples, 1/3 recoil for high BP moves and 1/4 recoil for very high BP moves.
Regarding names, I guess I can md5 them and check which number is higher. If that ties too, well, it deserves a goddamn coin flip, lol.
Regarding names, I guess I can md5 them and check which number is higher. If that ties too, well, it deserves a goddamn coin flip, lol.
The question is why Hydro Pump is less powerful than Focus Blast, given that both are ordinarily high-power, low-accuracy moves. If anything, set them both to 120 base power, or set them both to 110 base power. But it does not make sense for Focus Blast to be 125 while Hydro Pump is only 110.
I see you removed Poison's Sp. Atk debuff. Given that, Special moves should be marginally less powerful than their physical equivalents, as there is no easy way to cripple a Special attacker the way you can a Physical attacker.
Well, Focus Blast has quite less accuracy, and it gives out its ability to hinder SpD 10% of the times for an equivalent increase in power. Some moves are just meant to be better than others, Hydro Pump is usually a STAB move whereas Focus Blast is usually coverage.
I removed anything that isn't reducing luck. I guess I can do that, as the game balanced that with secondary effects but less accuracy while giving debuffs or recoil to most physical moves (but rock type moves).
I removed anything that isn't reducing luck. I guess I can do that, as the game balanced that with secondary effects but less accuracy while giving debuffs or recoil to most physical moves (but rock type moves).
Game Freak was already starting to nerf Special moves in Gen 6 with the nerf to Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, Hurricane, Draco Meteor, Leaf Storm, Overheat, Aura Sphere (-10 base power to all), Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, and Dragon Pulse (-5 base power to all). It's sort of a mystery to me why they didn't nerf Focus Blast, but I'm guessing that's because it doesn't have the "perfect accuracy in *insert weather here*" effect that Blizzard, Thunder, and Hurricane do. Focus Blast was actually pretty equal compared to Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, except that Hydro Pump got the short end of the stick by not having a secondary effect.
tehy
Banned deucer.
Speaking as a competitive player, i can assure you that I would pick the name with the highest value (which means you might see a lot of ties lol). Unless you mean player names, in which case first player to reserve the best name wins.
The best ideas i've seen are speed of team and a marker, and actually I think a combination of both is in order. Speed of team is deterministic and very hard to tie; if two people are using the same team (almost only way it could happen) you would reasonably expect speed ties to dominate, so in that rare case a coinflip is fine, being way less luck-based
However, it would also give away information. I can't decide if that's s good thing (a penalty for starting with the marker) or just bad in general (it gives a way to both sides). There's also the question of scarves.
Tl;dr
Fastest team gets the marker ( scarf not included ), after use it changes sides.
I've always had the impression part of the decision there was that Focus Blast is implicitly bad because you largely either don't have STAB on it or suck at Special Attack. Plus Focus Blast has worse accuracy than Hydro Pump and Fire Blast, so even for something like Infernape it still produces a trade-off -you can use Fire Blast for more accuracy and a chance to Burn, or Focus Blast for less accuracy and the usually pretty eh effect of a chance to lower Special Defense.
But yeah Hydro Pump has always been at the disadvantage compared to its counterparts from a lack of effect, and it even has less Accuracy than Fire Blast! (Really bizarre)
Just FYI: You can now play the alfa stage of this pet mod on Joim's Lab. Changes there:
No crits.
No misses.
Status updates (sleep, freeze, paralyze).
Confusion update.
Partial trapping duration.
Locked moves (like Outrage) duration.
No crits.
No misses.
Status updates (sleep, freeze, paralyze).
Confusion update.
Partial trapping duration.
Locked moves (like Outrage) duration.
How does sleep talk work?
Good question, still random. A good idea is for it to use a different move each time and those to be ordered by Pokémon's nature, for instance. Not random and better than "always chooses last move".
Regarding special attacks and their changes:
If I give more accuracy in exchange of base power, it simply does not work. Take hydro pump, for instance. 110 base power, 80% accuracy. Taking power from it for the accuracy leaves us with 88 base power. Why not use Surf always? This move just disappears. Take Focus Blast: 120 Base Power, 70% accuracy, 10% chance to lower SpD by 1. Base Power can be 84, and then aura sphere is always better, or just account that 10% of secondary that gets out in and it's 92 base power, barely any difference with aura sphere. Following this, we get 102 base power Fire Blast, since it has more acc than hpump and a secondary.
So: do we just change accuracy for base power? Do we get rid of low chance secondaries in exchange for more base power? It's less mod-y, but it's also a bit shit. Do we give them an effect that already exists in-game, like recoil or stat lowering? I'd like to know what's the best way to go on this.
To me, I figured that moves that are ordinarily low-accuracy have their low accuracy replaced with adverse secondary effects, like recoil damage or offence/defence nerfs to the user. In other words, it's exactly what you're already doing. What I was wondering, though, is why Hydro Pump in particular is so much weaker than Focus Blast while having the same recoil (-1 Sp. Atk). Both are 8 PP, high-power moves with low accuracy. If you consider power and accuracy as direct trade-offs, however, then they're equal with the exception of Hydro Pump lacking a secondary effect. (70% acc + 120 base power = 190 total. 80% acc + 110 base power = 190 total as well.) As such, I feel as though they should be equal here. Focus Blast could maybe get 5 more base power in exchange for losing its secondary, or it could simply keep the secondary.
I'd say the best way to deal with it is to have a blanket way to change them. for instance make moves with higher than 100 BP and lower than 90 acc have recoil or something.
Also play rough and meteor mash aren't strong enough to warrant a bigger debuff than removing their secondary effect chance, if that.