Skymin Discussion Thread

Skiddle, look through the main Platinum thread on this forum and go back a few pages. AMF provided a link showing all the attacks of the Pokemon at the Battle Frontier. There were a lot of new inclusions in there such as Superpower Flareon, Outrage Salamence etc.
 
So was Garchomp "the next Blissey" then? It's just such a meaningless comparison...

I believe Skymin and Garchomp are alike because they are both "broken" (or seemingly so) and significantly alter the metagame if they are or aren't there

Cresselia, one of the best Garchomp counters, is now used less because Garchomp is gone and to most people this means, "Bye-bye Cresselia"

If Skymin entered standard, Regice and Registeel would most likely enter OU simply because the of the fact they counter Skymin the best out of many options


EDIT: O.o Outrage salamance, eh?

Well, now they killed Dragonite unless for support or subpunching
 
Yes.

We've already been over this. Registeel shuts it down, Blissey probably shuts down any non-specs special attacker, Zapdos resists grass and flying and subtracts 2 pp every time it takes a Seed Flare.

I really do not know why you compared it to Garchomp at all, can we just forget about him for once? >_>

Uh Subseed beats the Regis one on one, Special defense drop on the switch-in and HP Ice takes care of Zapdos.

Shaymin is invincible!!!!!
 
Ugh, it's hard to read the thread discussion if every other post is someone coming in going "OMG UBER LOL" or "OH I DONT THINK ITS UBER KBAI". Suddenly 2 of my infractions make perfect sense.

So here's our list of paper counters:
Registeel
Regice (not guaranteed with Stealth Rock)

Things that might be useful / not full counters:
Crobat (can't switch in on Psychic, Brave Bird is a OHKO)
Muk (Needs Poison Jab + SR or Gunk Shot, Psychic is a bitch)
Various Grass resists wasting PP of Seed Flare
Blissey can switch in twice, if either of them miss or don't cause a special fall (32% chance each switch-in) then Bliss can heal up and keep stalling out the pp by switching in and out.
Heatran (HP Ground pulverizes it)

Any more for the Specs set?

Edit: Holy shit Outrage Salamence that doesn't sound like taking Dragonite's niche at all no fuck you nintendo I liked Dragonite sholudn't the OP be updated in the Platinum thread please please please? Do it Lee Do IT!
 
It just depends on the Skymin

Theoretically, if you could use all movesets on Skymin (or, in a nutshell, all of its potential in one moveset) it would be invincible

However, this is not the case, you only use one set so it just depends on the set your using
 
It's worse than Garchomp in the sense that it's faster (whilst still being in a unique speed tier), and can get even luckier with regards to hax (60% flinch > 20% evasion). However's it's SLIGHTLY better than Garchomp because of the lowered defences and a SR weak. That said, it's still bulkier than all fast special sweepers (except scarfed ones like Jirachi and Togekiss, but then it's more powerful than they are), so it's hardly FRAGILE.

I don't see immediately what the Regi's are going to do to the SubSeed set.. maybe I'm just being naive, but if they switch into either Sub or Seed they're going to be walled for an eternity. The possibility of Air Slashing from behind a sub is just the icing on the cake really. The Subseeder can also scout Tran's speed level if it subs on the switch in, letting you see whether it will outspeed you or not. Crobat is also shaky against this set as well, because it won't be able to switch into a sub more than once before Air Slash catches up to it...

On the note of the SubSeeder, wouldn't Wide Lens be a possibility? I know the lefties recovery is great and all, but with everything but Sub having less than 100% accuracy, Wide Lens could really help... 93.5% Seed Flare, 99% Leech Seed, 100% Air Slash... could be a good "surefire" way of getting it to work.

I was also thinking of trying to get Substitute onto one of the offensive sets, but then the item choice is a lot tougher. Yache Berry (which needs its own set BTW - it's a viable item and it hasn't been listed) doesn't work with Sub well, Life Orb kills Skymin far too quickly, Expert Belt lacks coverage... leftovers seems pointless on a sweeping set, and Lum Berry is pointless when Sub blocks status. The best I can come up with is Salac/Petaya Berry... but something like this could be viable:

Name: Sub Sweeper
Move 1: Hidden Power [Ground]
Move 2: Seed Flare
Move 3: Air Slash
Move 4: Substitute
Item: Petaya Berry/Salac Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 Sp.DEF

Note that this would be best with a 30 IV in HP, so that you could sub 3 times to hit the berry (or twice and a SR switch-in). Petaya would be the better choice because it's already more than fast enough for most threats. Subs on the switch, and works from there. If a Regi comes in, hit it until the sub breaks, switch, and come back later to terrorize again. If Tran comes in, you have a free turn to HP Ground it, since it will probably expect a SubSeed varient anyhow. If it's not faster (although it most likely will be if it's the first thing to come in), you still have a sub intact after the OHKO. Crobat won't be able to take this thing on more than once if you have sub up as it comes in, so switching out after the first hit isn't exactly a bother.

If you manage to come in enough times to sub down to the berry, more power to you - by this time you should've already done a LOT of damage anyhow, but the extra speed/Sp.ATK should just seal the deal. If tying with other Skymin isn't your priority, and you like your 31 HP IV, you could run 12 HP/ 252 Sp.ATK/ 244 Speed just as easily, but the 30 IV allows at least a tie with other Skymin... something that could be important thanks to the unique speed tier.

EDIT: Sorry, this was in construction for a while, so the top part was slightly outdated -_-. Some of the rest of this post has already been said too, but that's what I get for taking a while to type this out :(
 
Uh Subseed beats the Regis one on one, Special defense drop on the switch-in and HP Ice takes care of Zapdos.

Shaymin is invincible!!!!!

I assumed we were only talking about the special attacking set, otherwise (as HotPocket said) you could say the same thing about Gengar or Lucario or whatever.

Also, if Skymin uses HP Ice, it is walled entirely by any Heatran.
 
Ugh, it's hard to read the thread discussion if every other post is someone coming in going "OMG UBER LOL" or "OH I DONT THINK ITS UBER KBAI". Suddenly 2 of my infractions make perfect sense.

So here's our list of paper counters:
Registeel
Regice (not guaranteed with Stealth Rock)

Things that might be useful / not full counters:
Crobat (can't switch in on Psychic, Brave Bird is a OHKO)
Muk (Needs Poison Jab + SR or Gunk Shot, Psychic is a bitch)
Various Grass resists wasting PP of Seed Flare
Blissey can switch in twice, if either of them miss or don't cause a special fall (32% chance each switch-in) then Bliss can heal up and keep stalling out the pp by switching in and out.
Heatran (HP Ground pulverizes it)

Any more for the Specs set?

Edit: Holy shit Outrage Salamence that doesn't sound like taking Dragonite's niche at all no fuck you nintendo I liked Dragonite sholudn't the OP be updated in the Platinum thread please please please? Do it Lee Do IT!

There's still supportNite with Thunder Wave, I suppose. And Nite still has Boltbeam where Mence doesn't.
 
I assumed we were only talking about the special attacking set, otherwise (as HotPocket said) you could say the same thing about Gengar or Lucario or whatever.

Also, if Skymin uses HP Ice, it is walled entirely by any Heatran.

With Sub, leftovers, leech seed, and as long shaymin outspeeds heatran, heatran will eventually die

The subseed set is still invincible!!!!
 
I believe Skymin and Garchomp are alike because they are both "broken" (or seemingly so) and significantly alter the metagame if they are or aren't there

Cresselia, one of the best Garchomp counters, is now used less because Garchomp is gone and to most people this means, "Bye-bye Cresselia"

If Skymin entered standard, Regice and Registeel would most likely enter OU simply because the of the fact they counter Skymin the best out of many options


EDIT: O.o Outrage salamance, eh?

Well, now they killed Dragonite unless for support or subpunching

Pfft, Bullshit, how can you say Skymin alters the metagame if it hasn't even been tested yet...

Besides, pretty much everything in platinum gets new moves, therefore altering the metagame, every pokemon for uber? I don't think so ._.
 
Pfft, Bullshit, how can you say Skymin alters the metagame if it hasn't even been tested yet...

Besides, pretty much everything in platinum gets new moves, therefore altering the metagame, every pokemon for uber? I don't think so ._.
Skymin IS broken. Look at its stats and movepool, there is nothing to be tested.
 
Skymin IS broken. Look at its stats and movepool, there is nothing to be tested.

I don't agree with this at all. Anyone remember the theorymon going on about Rhyperior and Heatran before the release of DP in the US? Look where those two have ended up.
 
I don't agree with this at all. Anyone remember the theorymon going on about Rhyperior and Heatran before the release of DP in the US? Look where those two have ended up.
Agreed. I laughed at the prospect of Heatran when I first heard about him, now I use him on half my teams. Skymin doesn't look that broken, although I'm one of those people who wanted Garchomp in OU. With Salamence getting Outrage and a whole lot of other moves being brought in, I think we'll have to redefine what it means to be OU.
 
I don't agree with this at all. Anyone remember the theorymon going on about Rhyperior and Heatran before the release of DP in the US? Look where those two have ended up.

Heatran is everywhere and Rhyp was indeed mostly hype. However, Rhyp was hyped when everyone thought Solid Rock was a 33% damage reduction on all attacks instead of a 25% one on Super-Effective. Rock/Ground has always been a terrible type.

Speaking of Hype, Rampardos has Superpower and physical Fire and Electric attacks now from Tutors. If it got Ice Punch I think the world would have imploded (though there's no proof it doesn't have it yet, considering it gets Ice Beam, Blizzard, and Avalanche.) Thunderpunch's big advantage over Stone Edge is 100 Acc and better PP. Slowbro and co. aren't really safe switchins anymore (Swampert still is). I'd say Fire Punch was cool were it not for Mold Breaker nullifying the only Steel that ever would switch in on something with Earthquake. There's always that 10% chance to burn Skarm...
 
Heatran is everywhere and Rhyp was indeed mostly hype. However, Rhyp was hyped when everyone thought Solid Rock was a 33% damage reduction on all attacks instead of a 25% one on Super-Effective. Rock/Ground has always been a terrible type.

You got it backwards. He was referring to the generally accepted idea that Heatran would be BL, not "amazing" like he is now.

I'm pretty sure what was thought was a 33% reduction on all SE hits, no one ever thought all hits did 33% less damage...
 
I think initially people thought it was a 50% reduction on SE attacks, then 33%, then 25%. I don't think anybody really thought it was a reduction on all attacks though, or at least not for long.
 
Skymin is probably going to draw out a lot of Regice and/or Light Screen Blissey. Eat Seed Flare with something with high resistance, then switch in Bliss to LS. Even with the SD Drop, Skymin can't do much to an opponent with Light Screen up. Even after SD drop Blissey is still like "mmmm waffles."
 
If only Skymin got some decent physical attacks to complement that 103 base attack and swords dance, it'd totally outclass Sceptile (as if it didn't already, mirite? ;3).
 
I'd like to point out that Skymin, while it may be a huge threat offensively, it still can't take down blissey in less than 3 turns, and it's weaker than garchomp defensively. Running HP Ground allows Bronzong to wall it, running HP Ice allows Heatran to wall it. I've ran damage calculators and such, this thing isn't nearly as broken as people think.
 
Yeah, but Seed Flare is still going to hurt Bronzong pretty badly. You're right though, Bronzong DOES wall it. I forgot about him o_o

So does Skarmory actually. 4x grass resistance, ground immune, flying resistance.



However, it can take out Blissey in two hits, FYI. Seed Flare SpD drops -2 stages, 80% of the time.
 
SkyMin is being so hyped in Theorymon it is kind of bringing a smile to my face.

People will use it a shitload when it becomes available, and then realize that it isn't THAT great because a shitload can also beat it.

Also, it does have that one perfect counter (Registeel), so I mean "I guess we'll see."

Though bolt's statements are really making me laugh.
 
i keep wondering why gamefreak hates dragonite so much, and platinum does it again, he only gets superpower while salamence gets outrage and becomes the strongest outrage in the game, overshadowing dragonite again. now dragonite loses another niche to salamence and very very likely will fall in usage, is it too much to ask to give dragonite thick fat??????
why the hell gamefreak hates dragonite so much????
 
Yeah, but Seed Flare is still going to hurt Bronzong pretty badly. You're right though, Bronzong DOES wall it. I forgot about him o_o

So does Skarmory actually. 4x grass resistance, ground immune, flying resistance.



However, it can take out Blissey in two hits, FYI. Seed Flare SpD drops -2 stages, 80% of the time.

The description for Seed Flare just says lower, not harshly lower, so I'm pretty sure it only drops it -1 =/
 
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