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Skymin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter 1059860
- Start date
Light Screen Dragonite will be fun to use against this little guy, 4x resisting grass, and it can't be flinched due to Inner Focus. With Roost and Thunder Wave, it won't have any problems against this guy.
@ 1234gjy, just because Shaymin-S might make it into Ubers, that doesn't change the fact that Garchomp is still broken as hell in standards.
@ 1234gjy, just because Shaymin-S might make it into Ubers, that doesn't change the fact that Garchomp is still broken as hell in standards.
Okay I think that people who say that it's automatically uber with no test period are misled.
It has nothing on registeel except sub seed, nothing on roar skarm or zap with it, and it takes 25% from the rocks. It also has no reliable recovery so rocks=death in 4 switches so the people who say "It will just switch every time" can kiss that theory good-bye as one would NEED to carry a spinner to get it by a stall team.
Thats 2 pokes to make it able to sweep. People also say duggy can kill blissey. 3 pokes. Oh and btw heatran is NOT able to switch into heatran to revenge it as it is ohkoed by 3 out of it's four moves and 2 of which are the moves of choice to kill skimin with, hp ice and flamethrower.
Focus sash vile can revenge without residual damage and so can mamo with the added bonus of not having his sash ruined by sandstorm. So basically to recap, the skymin user needs to have
A spinner
A dugrtio
A rocker
and skymin.
thats 2/3rds of a team to allow skymin to sweep effectivly.
Garchomp needed what like a magnezone and its off to the sweeping? xp
It has nothing on registeel except sub seed, nothing on roar skarm or zap with it, and it takes 25% from the rocks. It also has no reliable recovery so rocks=death in 4 switches so the people who say "It will just switch every time" can kiss that theory good-bye as one would NEED to carry a spinner to get it by a stall team.
Thats 2 pokes to make it able to sweep. People also say duggy can kill blissey. 3 pokes. Oh and btw heatran is NOT able to switch into heatran to revenge it as it is ohkoed by 3 out of it's four moves and 2 of which are the moves of choice to kill skimin with, hp ice and flamethrower.
Focus sash vile can revenge without residual damage and so can mamo with the added bonus of not having his sash ruined by sandstorm. So basically to recap, the skymin user needs to have
A spinner
A dugrtio
A rocker
and skymin.
thats 2/3rds of a team to allow skymin to sweep effectivly.
Garchomp needed what like a magnezone and its off to the sweeping? xp
Not really. Skymin works pretty well regardless of support. Plenty of things can switch in and take 25% ST damage and do fine. Does SR ruin Gyarados or Salamence? Not really. Its even less of an issue when you can subseed. Shaymin has excellent defenses for a sweeper, and packs the ability to sweep from either side of the spectrum. Getting free switches on EQs or random fighting attacks is a pretty good deal to.
127 Speed is pretty damn nice, and Serene Grace is just the topping of Uberness. Specsmin was pretty dangerous anyways in D/P, but now its stronger and faster. If we do have a testing period for it I have a feeling it will be kicked up to Ubers rather quickly.
lol
Like you've mentioned, subseed takes care of most walls besides roaring skarmory and zapdos; zapdos takes 25% just switching in thanks to the rocks, and roaring isn't a sure bet as you're going to be flinching 60% lol. So you have a 40% chance while losing 25%+ of your health just to blow skymin away, whereas skymin can recover 25%+ in one turn with leech seed and leftovers? I love this idea of a counter. Skarmory might take less damage switching in, but the flinch hax just won't disappear. :\
okay i agree with you that heatran can't switch into heatran lol; don't know how that contributes to your argument but whatever
alright so you say that stealth rocks will always be hampering skymin, but somehow weavile goes by untouched? That's even funnier.
Skymin takes care of blissey with 101 subs, leech seed, flinch, and constantly boosting its special attack with growth.
Good luck stopping this juggernaut without more than one counter; oh wait, isn't that the same argument that pretty much made Garchomp uber? :\
if by "argument," you mean one backed up by
you know
actually playing with the goddamn pokemon for months and months,
then yes
sadly that does not apply to Shaymin though, huh
edit: also I love the "multiple counter" gibberish in general lol, and people were complaining about Tangerine's thread?
I hope you know if Shaymin-S gets popular Blissey won't run Seismic Toss but Ice Beam instead; regardless of 101 HP Subs or not Shaymin will still be able to Seed Blissey as it switches in or be behind a Sub as Blissey switches in so the 101 HP Subs concept isn't such a great one, you might as well dump all those HP EVs into SpA on the SubSeed spread so that with your low HP you can recover more % health off of Leech Seed and do more damage with Seed Flare and Air Slash.
We don't NEED to have a spinner and a rocker to have it sweep effectively. The last one is just plain obvious -_-.
Shaymin Learns Quick Attack for one. For two why do you need both Spinner and Rocker at the same time anyways? Having one is good, but not both is required. Dugtrio is useful to take down things like Registeel, but a lot of good Pokemon like so could do, saying an AgiliCross. It's just overpowering, for especially the fact that if the condition IS MET, which is definitely overcentralizing, the dude is unstopable. So what if I do need to make 4 Pokemon on my team in order to make one nearly unstopable. I'll do it.
Blame Game: I don't mean we shouldn't test it out in OU first, but if Garchomp set any kind of precedent for this sort of situation, people shouldn't expecting Skymin to stay long in OU.
Earthquake: It's a common misconception that lowering your health will result in a greater HP recovery; it depends on the HP stat of the opponent you're leeching. Since Blissey has tons of it, you'll be healing a lot more.
To make an analogy, it's easier to fill a small cup of water, but if you're pouring in gallons, isn't that just a waste? Besides, even when that great terror Garchomp was around in OU many Blisseys still carried Seismic Toss; it does equal damage to every pokemon bar Ghosts.
With Growth on the Subseed set, Special Attack isn't a concern in the long run.
Earthquake: It's a common misconception that lowering your health will result in a greater HP recovery; it depends on the HP stat of the opponent you're leeching. Since Blissey has tons of it, you'll be healing a lot more.
To make an analogy, it's easier to fill a small cup of water, but if you're pouring in gallons, isn't that just a waste? Besides, even when that great terror Garchomp was around in OU many Blisseys still carried Seismic Toss; it does equal damage to every pokemon bar Ghosts.
With Growth on the Subseed set, Special Attack isn't a concern in the long run.
It will be healing more in terms of percentage (and percentage is what really matters when it comes to SubSeeding) and with Stealth Rock trying to ruin the longevity of Shaymin-S it is a must. I remember in Advance when I used to run SubSeed Sceptile with 0HP EVs/0HP IVs and it would usually be able to drain walls of their HP and I would usually get very close to 25% of my HP recovered each time thus making up the HP I was losing making Substitutes.
And what's with Growth when every time you attempt to use Seed Flare you get a 68% to hit the opponent two times harder the next turn and also forces switches thus making the opponent take slow SR damage making it easier for Shaymin-S to set up Substitute and Leech Seed.
How does having Sky Shaymin in Ubers push Garchomp into OU?
Can't a ScarfSalamence switch into Seed Flare and OHKO Skymin with Flamethrower? Just somethin that came into my mind.
As i've seen the base stats and the movepool, Skymin would most likely be uber. However i'd like to see this thing in OU for a while.
As i've seen the base stats and the movepool, Skymin would most likely be uber. However i'd like to see this thing in OU for a while.
Ok, my initial reaction to this was 'fuck yes!' Shaymin is my favourite pokemon of all time, and when I used to have a banner saying 'Beware the Hedgehog', I would get laughed at all the time and told it was an inferior Celebi. Sky-Shaymin was a big fuck you to everyone who thought Shaymin would never be able to be used competitively. Then my common sense kicked in, saying 'shit, this thing is going to be uber'. As much as I love it, 80 % chance of -2 SpDef, 60 % chance of Air Slash Flinching, 127 speed and 120 special attack seems incredibly broken on paper. However, I don't believe that this thing should be declared uber right away. We previously thought Rhyperior would be given that status because of its stats, and although it has a lot less Speed then Sky Shaymin, the same thinking applies.
Although Skymin is great at what it does, a 4 x weakness to Ice, lack of reliable recovery and SR weak hinder it. This combined with only a slightly improved movepool means that unlike Chomp or Gengar, you pretty much know what set it is running 100 % of the time. With this in mind, I say let Sky Shaymin start out OU and lets make decisions later when we are in a position to do so.
Although Skymin is great at what it does, a 4 x weakness to Ice, lack of reliable recovery and SR weak hinder it. This combined with only a slightly improved movepool means that unlike Chomp or Gengar, you pretty much know what set it is running 100 % of the time. With this in mind, I say let Sky Shaymin start out OU and lets make decisions later when we are in a position to do so.
Speed is 120. >:( Someone really should change that.
Well in that case, please scroll to the bottom of this page and tell me what the Sky Forme's speed is:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/492.shtml
As well as this page:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/stat/speed.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/stat/speed.shtml
Np dude.Chill said:
I wouldn't look too far into this tbh. Sure, a metagame exists to replicate the actual game but if the Skymin data is there and enough people want to see it used then we're free to apply a little artistic license and introduce him to the metagame, whether or not Nintendo allow him in multiplayer battles.Chris is me said: