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BW OU Sloop John B - ST8 team

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Snunch, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Snunch

    Snunch
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    A collaboration with Stone_Cold

    This team was my bread and butter during st8. I used it every round until the semifinals in game 2 because I expected most people to use their best team game 2, and I was confident enough in this team to pull through. This team rose to the challenge, going 7-0 before I stopped using it. Before st8, I also used this team in smaller tournaments, winning a #ratemyteam cup, doing very well in battle city, and 6-0ing Earthworm. I'm posting this team for two reasons: first, nasty plot mew is great. Second, I really like how this team works. This team can either be a very stall-oriented team, wearing down my opponent with toxic spikes and jelli / forry / tran, or it can play like heavy offense, sacrificing my walls to set up hazards or get in a burn then letting my sweepers go to town. Sometimes BW demands that you play fast-and-loose with your walls and this team makes that easy. Team name comes from putting my itunes library on shuffle and choosing the first song.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Scald
    - Recover

    Jellicent is really underrated at the moment. Starmie has been seeing getting a lot of use lately and Jellicent can usually just shut it down, ensuring my hazards stay down the entire match. Shadow Ball is a move that I just can't live without as it allows Jellicent to 2hko the aforementioned Starmie, as well as pokemon like Latios and Alakazam that can otherwise maneuver around Jellicent and pose a problem for me. I don't miss Taunt at all. The neutral hit on Rotom-W is always nice as well. The SDef EVs are another thing I just couldn't live without, as not only does it allow Jellicent to always beat Leftovers Thunderbolt Starmie, but it also keeps the damage from Rotom-W's volt switches to a minimum, allowing Jellicent to break Scizor / Rotom cores. Jellicent comes in very handy sometimes, taking the pressure off Mew to take on strong fighters like Terrakion and Infernape, but overall it's probably my LVP. Still, the fact that it counters Starmie makes it very hard to replace.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch

    I just love Forretress right now. It just completely shuts down so many popular Pokemon on both stall and offense such as Haxorus, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. As long as Forretress is at a reasonable health these pokemon are not only useless, but actually made liabilities because they allow Forretress to set up its dangerous Toxic Spikes for free. When I have Toxic Spikes up, which because of Sturdy + Jellicent is nearly impossible to prevent unless my opponent has an absorber, all of the otherwise mediocre sets my team carries become deadly. Heatran becomes more annoying than Jirachi and Togekiss combined, and Dragonite and Virizion can both beat some of their common counters with Toxic Spikes up. Some powerful Band / Specs users such as Terrakion would otherwise be able to wear down my team with its powerful Stone Edges without Toxic Spikes in turn chipping away at its health. Gyro Ball is an essential move on Forretress so that it can actually threaten the offensive pokemon it switches in on, and I will never understand why some people would run Forretress without it. The last slot is a tossup; Volt Switch is very useful for unscouted Scizors (where I don't know whether they will use Swords Dance or U-Turn), breaking DragMag, and breaking Dragonite's Multiscale. I could instead use Spikes which is a bit more anti-metagame, as giving me more layers would be more punishing to Sub+Protect Gliscor, and it would benefit Virizion more than Toxic Spikes do.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect

    Everybody knows how Heatran works. It switches in on something it walls, tries to get a 30% burn on Rotom-W on the switch, protects, and switches out. Heatran serves as my specially defensive wall, being able to phase, get off stealth rock, and cause status helps the dramatically. Heatran serves as a pillar for my team, and takes away a myriad of weaknesses that I have. Heatran is my only way of taking on special dragons, which works well if they're choiced but not so great if it's a last mon CM Latias. I chose Roar over a status move because the latter seemed redundant with Toxic Spikes. What I really like about Heatran is that if I see in team preview that it will be close to useless aside from setting up SR, it has the bulk to stay in on Scalds and Hydro Pumps and go for Lava Plume burns before it dies.

    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Leaf Blade
    - Stone Edge

    When I built this team rain stall was at its peak and SD Virizion was being hyped as the rain stall killer. Because Rain Stall always carries a Tentacruel to absorb my poor Forretress' Toxic Spikes, I figured a rain stall killer would be helpful. Sadly, because Virizion lacks the ability to OHKO anything without a boost, most rain stall mons can just Toxic it and switch out. Thankfully, my other sweepers pick up the slack against rain stall. Instead, Virizion exists to provide good offensive and defensive synergy, making both a decent switchin to both Rotom-W and Tyranitar which bother my previous three pokemon, and a good Scizor lure, which is OHKOed by a little prior damage, paving the way for a Dragonite sweep. I've thought about changing this to the CM set because it wouldn't be as bothered by burns, but I really need Virizion to get strong quickly. Slow boosting would require me to switch out too much, and because Virizion is already pretty vulnerable to priority from Scizor and Dragonite I don't want it to get into that 60% range.

    [​IMG]
    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Aura Sphere
    - Flamethrower

    Hey Mew is actually pretty diverse and has a good movepool, who knew. Most of Mew's counters rely on it not being able to hurt much without Will-O-Wisp, which makes this set a great lure. Mew still beats Tyranitar, Scizor, and Terrakion, but I obviously have to be much more careful switching this in, which is where Forretress' Volt Switch comes in handy. If I get Mew in at good health, it's very hard to stop it from getting multiple boosts if it needs to because the OU pokemon with super effective STAB attacks are KOed by +2 Aura Sphere or Psychic. This means you need something with roughly the same power as a specs Latios Draco Meteor to OHKO Mew, which Heatran / Forretress / Jellicent can usually handle. This slot was originally Jolteon but I switched it to Mew because I noticed a weakness to Conkeldurr and Toxicroak, and I have not been disappointed. Use different Mew sets everybody, Taunt+WoW isn't the only thing it can do.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SDef / 172 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    My endgame sweeper. With Toxic Spikes support it's very easy for this set to get past pokemon like Perish Song Politoed and Unaware Quagsire, and is insanely hard to beat if I can get it in with offensive momentum. Heatran, most Ferrothorn, Forretress, and some Jirachi are set-up bait for this set, and of course a dragon that can get past a majority of the OU steel types is a huge threat. I've played games where I just sacrificed all of my other pokemon then led a comeback sweep with Dragonite when my opponent realizes they can't beat this set without Skarmory being able to Whirlwind it. I typically don't ask Dragonite to take many attacks even though it easily can because I want to preserve Multiscale as much as possible. I won a game because this Dragonite was able to set up on a CB Terrakion's Stone Edge, kill it, then survive a CB Dragonite Extremespeed and kill that. To put it simply, this set just wins games.

    Threat List (open)

    This team is weak to random fast and strong special attackers that nobody except dumb noob idiot lamppost uses like LO HP Ice / Earth Power Celebi, but the common threat is:

    CM Latias / Latios: I can roar them with Heatran until they're the last mon remaining, but after that I need to hope that Dragonite can get in with Multiscale (Forretress Volt Switch go). Their speed is the real issue, as 110 is faster than any of my sweepers so I can't easily revenge kill.


    Importable (open)
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SDef / 172 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Scald
    - Recover

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Protect

    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Leaf Blade
    - Stone Edge

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Aura Sphere
    - Flamethrower

    :toast:
  2. Bribery

    Bribery

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    Great team, glad to see Mew getting more recognition these days.

    Minor suggestion: Lum Berry over Leftovers on Virizion. It'll help switching into Scalds and Toxics that are commonly found on Rain stall.
  3. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    If Lati@s are really a problem, try toxic on Heatran. With roar you can handle pretty much any CM Latias. You might have to run SR on Forry or los protect though, not sure if that trade off is worth it. Little redundant with t-spikes but I'd thought to just throw that out there.
  4. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    this team sucks massively hard and so does the user who posted it

    nah jk good team, i'm just spotting some weakness to rotom-w, lati@s and dragonite; maybe use something like scarf hydreigon over virizion? idk. additionally, i'd use taunt over either shadow ball or will o wisp on jellicent, you seem pretty weak to stall.
  5. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    Something you could consider is TWave Specially Defensive Rotom-C over Virizion, since he can do a decent job checking Rotom-W (better actually), Tyranitar (worse) and can get some shots on Scizor Volt Switching around. With TWave you should be able to paralyze some things that trouble you like Latis, opposing Virizion (which ironically seems to be your biggest weakness), LO Tornadus and so on. Obviously you'll be weaker to some stuff, but this is just some food for thought. Congrats again and good luck.

    Edit: Maybe consider HP Ice on Forry given the huge SubToxic / SD / Acrobat Gliscor weakness, or Chesto Rest on Rotom if you do test him out. Rotom-W could probably do it if you don't like Cut as well, with the bonus of checking Belt Landorus better. HP Ice on Virizion could make you less weak to Gliscor I guess.
  6. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    Mew doin' work. I approve.

    I would also suggest Lum Berry on Virizion just to make it easier to set up on the extreme faggotry known as Scald.
  7. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Just curious as to what your solution to opposing Heatran in the sun is. Seems like a major problem for this team.
  8. Max212

    Max212

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    Very good team, it has proven its worth so no changes needed.
  9. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    I loved this team so much! This is probably the best semi-stall in 5th gen and I believe that it is a playstyle that has been decaying for various reasons. Solid team and it is hard to find a weakness on this team.

    My first suggestion is to use a Lum Berry on Virizion isntead of Leftovers, because it will allow him to switch more into those annoying Scalds or Toxics found in Rain-stall. You should try HP Ice on Forretress and use an EV spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Sp.atk. HP Ice will 2HKO Toxic Stall Gliscor and it still does consistent damage to Dragonite, while giving an excellent Defensive bulk. You might want to try Psyshock on Mew because it will 2HKO Blissey after a NP and it gets the jump on common CM users like Latias & Reuniclus.
  10. Dk Law

    Dk Law

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    Really love this team, especially with an offensive Mew in it. People might think its a stall breaker set so attacking with unpredicted SE moves is always great. Doesn't seem like you have much problems with current threats in meta.

    Congrats on ST8.
  11. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Thanks for the comments + luvdiscs everybody

    A lot of people are suggesting Lum Virizion, I'll try it out. I can see it really helping out against everything but sand teams, where it would put Viri into priority KO range pretty quickly.

    Toxic would be really great on Heatran, but it would either involve me either losing Roar (which means I can't even beat refresh or sub cm latias) or putting SR on Forry which would make it a lot less effective imo.

    agreed

    People aren't running Jellicent on stall teams atm, makes Forry a stall killer. Worst comes to worst I can always last mon sub dd nite, which I've done multiple times. SD Virizion is also pretty good against stall, and it would be better if I use lum berry.

    Forretress does a pretty good job of beating Sub SD Gliscor from my experience. Sub Toxic has beaten me, but I'd rather use Spikes to punish it than HP Ice.

    I like the Rotom-C suggestion, at first I was skeptical of using twave along with toxic spikes but a lot of Rotom-C's switchins aren't grounded. I was about to test it but then I read...

    Sun Heatran is a problem. First thing I try to do is lure it with Mew, but if that fails, I'll probably sac Jellicent (it is a sun team after all) to put some damage on it, then revenge with Virizion.

    That would make me a lot weaker to BU Conkeldurr who can sponge a Psyshock after a BU.
  12. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    You could possibly use SpD Rotom-W over Jellicent, he should do an ok job checking pretty much everything Jellicent does at the moment, and Rest could be used for some extra insurance; also being able to check some other trouble Pokemon like Landorus (no spinblocking sucks though, but you don't have huge amounts of hazards to protect mostly). You'll be more Fighting weak though for obvious reasons, but Mew, Dragonite and Forry should be able to keep most bar HP Ice / Stone Edge Nape under control.

    Also the SD set I meant is that old bulky one with Ice Fang and Toxic Orb
  13. ENZ0

    ENZ0
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    Cool team Scncunch. To mess with the Lati@s, you could try Toxic on Heatran over something.

    Credit goes to #RMT Cups for this team's success.

    Congratulations again on winning ST8 BR0!
  14. Warahyuu

    Warahyuu

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    Obviously a great team given its success. I only have a minor suggestion. If you give Dragonite 56 Def EVs it can always survive a CB Dragonite Outrage with Multiscale active. It could be useful for setting up.
  15. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
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    Great team, and congrats on winning ST8! It's really nice to see mew used successfully.
  16. franky

    franky
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    sd lo terrakion is the only thing you seem hard pressed on.. so the only solution is possibly lowering its switch in chances. maybe a will-0-wisp on heatran > protect can do the trick. another option you could do is psycho shock > psychic on mew so it lures in latias and maybe LO latios (not specs). you can pierce through latias' defenses in particular and possibly give you an easier time with it.

    last option.. you could speed bump tran with 16 spe or something to outpace those bulk up breloom before they spore you. pretty cool team still.
  17. NatGeo

    NatGeo kauai
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    Really solid team man, not much to say I guess. Aside from the above, might wanna watch out for Magnezone, since if Forry gets taken out Dragon-types can go to town on this team, i.e. DDNite with EQ can 6-0 you if you let Heatran go to early or if it carries Lum Berry. I guess you could be really cautious and run Shed Shell but loss of recovery really sucks on a lot of occasions. I guess it's just something that's more of a thing that can be avoided with smart playing and double switching.
  18. Cloud9.

    Cloud9.

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    I can see Sub/toxic/protect gliscor destroying this team.
  19. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    Great team, but I'm not sure how this team deals with Tornadus very well. It seems that outside of Heatran you don't really have anything to take its attacks, and in the Rain all you can do is pray for a Burn or phaze it. If Rocks are down then it seems it can just come in and start OHKOing. There's probably something I'm not seeing but it seems that there's nothing that outright "beats" it.
  20. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Yo Snunch,

    Congratz again for winning the ST8, you did well. Now i'm not really convinced by this team. Seriously, it's an original team but you're weak to a lot of stuff. First, you're extremely to sand teams, rain teams and especially sun teams since there is Dugtrio 99% of the time. Without Heatran (well it can't do anything) Dragonite just destroys your team. A volturn destroys your team. Terrakion ruins the team, same for nastycelebi@epower + psychic / giga drain (the most common set atm). I won't talk about SubToxicGliscor, or even, SDGliscor since Virizion is SD. SubHydreigon is a major threat, Latios too but you already know it, you have no switch for Mamoswine (hey foretress is weak, and it can switch...). Tornadus and Rotom-W just smash you. Yes, Rotom-W runs WoW and your Virizion (your only switch) is a physical sweeper. Alakazam is fucking annoying too with SR up.

    Hmm.
  21. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
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    This team would suck without the Dragonite set that rapes kids.

    Great team. :)
  22. N hehe

    N hehe

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    Since you're Lati@s weak, I'd suggest using Shadow Ball over Flamethrower on Mew. Heatran can already check Scizor and kill it, and so does Jellicent. Even though it won't check the Lati@s problem completely, it'll be easier dealing with them. I really like the fact that you're using Jellicent as a spinblocker. As you said, it's really underrated atm, so it's great you're using it. Shadow Ball might seem like a nice check to Lati@s, but it's not enough (so again, SB on Mew).

    This team should be on the RMT Archive. Congrats :)
  23. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    This team is too much fun to play with :)

    I was wondering what your course of action is for Gengar and Offensive Heatran?
  24. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    SD Landorus can potentially destroy this team. Fortunately it doesn't get many opportunities to set up, but if you get caught off guard it can get +2 and OHKO pretty much everything from there. Since it's immune to Toxic Spikes, you won't be able to wear it down. You'll need to fight to keep the enemy hazards away, so that Forretress can maintain full HP for Sturdy so it can hit it with Gyro Ball. Although Virizion outspeeds Landorus and resists Earthquake, with sandstorm up it still takes 85-101% from a +2 EQ, so there's a good chance of an OHKO with sandstorm damage factored in. Since you outspeed it, you can hit it with a Leaf Blade but it won't do enough to pose any serious harm to it. Without replacing anything, a solution would be to add HP [Ice] on Virizon and change it a Work Up set, although you'd lose a lot of overall power. However, a better solution may be to replace Jellicent with physically defensive Rotom-W, although that would exacerbate your already existent Terrakion weakness.

    All of that aside, this is a brilliant team. Definitely one of the most solid examples of balance that I've seen for some time. Hence, I have nominated it for the RMT Archive and given it a Luvdisc.
  25. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Ugh I had a long rate written up but then my internet went psycho for half a day. Ermmm... basically the gist of it was that Rotom-W really should destroy you if played well, it completely cripples every pokemon on your team with the right move. I get that you can often work around it by inflicting it with Burn (maybe if you need to, luring a Burn then switching to Mew would be a decent way to play) but it can still cause a load of damage before it dies, and regardless if it comes in on Forretress you can't touch it at all.

    Its not easy to fix this unfortunately. You could always go for Gastrodon over Jellicent but having no spinblocker when using Forry > Ferro never works out well. I think the best idea is to do as Bluewind mentioned and run Rotom-C instead of Virizion. Either that or run Breloom to get rid of the SubToxic Gliscor 6-0 weakness and still fill pretty much the same role.

    Good team anyhow, congrats on the ST8 win

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