We actually did that; I think the tour ran like 3 hours. It was long, kinda dull near the end, and chaotic
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Smogon Tour - Season 8
- Thread starter Aeolus
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But at this tour almost everyone played stall and just the match baris vs obi took half an hour, the problem were not just the 96 participants, but also that every match itself took very long
And that's the reason why I would try 96 participants again, as it wouldn't be that a big problem to have a 3 hours toure once again.
And that's the reason why I would try 96 participants again, as it wouldn't be that a big problem to have a 3 hours toure once again.
I already said no to this. We've done it before; it didn't work. I will not require users to block 3+ hours for each tour... that is unreasonable.
I had a crazy idea of people who posted twice and didn't get in and could prove they had a dial-up connection would get like 1 of 4 reservation spots for next weeks tour. Ultimately decided that would be too much of a hassle lol. People complaining about their poor internet, just go to your local library for a bit.
Anyway, my real question. Most of the previous tour threads on average got around 75 - 85 maximum and there are large lay-overs between the two days. I'm not even certain you'd be able to pull a 32 person tournament the 2nd day and anything less than that would seem disappointing. I suppose you might get the stragglers who just saw the 64 sign up and gave up so maybe the intended number of people that wished to play (75-85) is an underestimate; but most people who are serious about getting in just write "in" without even looking at the thread because they think there won't be enough time so I'm inclined to believe that's not true. In the cases where the tours managed to get around 100 - 115 sign ups, the next day you would have more players than 32, but (on average) slightly less than 64 and so you'd have to deny even more players from actually playing that day and so many wouldn't be even able to play either day anyway.
Just seems to be more of a hassle since we don't have the necessary participation without hurting the tour success in my opinion and will lead to quite a few disappointments.
Just seemed better the way it was originally, despite the obvious flaws, the proposed solution has some issues due to the fact we don't have a large enough participation in this.
Good luck to everyone participating though regardless of the format.
edit: I know you (Aeolus), would probably modify the format if the situation I described arose; but it didn't seem to have been considered in the discussion about this so I thought it was appropriate to bring up this potential flaw before it officially gets going; if only to be considered.
Anyway, my real question. Most of the previous tour threads on average got around 75 - 85 maximum and there are large lay-overs between the two days. I'm not even certain you'd be able to pull a 32 person tournament the 2nd day and anything less than that would seem disappointing. I suppose you might get the stragglers who just saw the 64 sign up and gave up so maybe the intended number of people that wished to play (75-85) is an underestimate; but most people who are serious about getting in just write "in" without even looking at the thread because they think there won't be enough time so I'm inclined to believe that's not true. In the cases where the tours managed to get around 100 - 115 sign ups, the next day you would have more players than 32, but (on average) slightly less than 64 and so you'd have to deny even more players from actually playing that day and so many wouldn't be even able to play either day anyway.
Just seems to be more of a hassle since we don't have the necessary participation without hurting the tour success in my opinion and will lead to quite a few disappointments.
Just seemed better the way it was originally, despite the obvious flaws, the proposed solution has some issues due to the fact we don't have a large enough participation in this.
Good luck to everyone participating though regardless of the format.
edit: I know you (Aeolus), would probably modify the format if the situation I described arose; but it didn't seem to have been considered in the discussion about this so I thought it was appropriate to bring up this potential flaw before it officially gets going; if only to be considered.
Well, this is just a suggestion, but why not just make those who got in the final few rounds not get to play the rest of that weekend for that tier? It sounds a bit unfair, but this would allow other members to play that would give the people in the lower rounds a better chance.
Yeah, as I'm writing this, I realize it sounds completely out of the question, but I can't help but post it to see if it may or may not be a good idea...
Yeah, as I'm writing this, I realize it sounds completely out of the question, but I can't help but post it to see if it may or may not be a good idea...
Or allow everyone that lost in Round 1 on Saturday (that's 32 players) and allow them to enter on Sunday, because they did not recieve any points. This will also fill up the large gap that Caelum stated.
I think it is a dilemma with the question how many players are allowed to join the tour.
One the one hand many players want to join the tour. When looking at the resonance of this thread or looking at the usage stats there is no doubt that our community has grown since the last tour. The sign-up thread will be full with 64, 96 and maybe even with 128 people.
But Aeolus said one round will take too much time, 3+ hours is really damm much, so what are we going to do ?
Is it possibe to halve the extra time after one turn or something like that ?! (Or maybe even without any time bonus ;), when it will be similar to chess...)
This is an excellent suggestion actually. The only problem is making sure people don't try to sneak in on Sundays seeing as the Tour hosts won't be able to check every single person. It would be an honor code thing I would assume.
I am all for this
EDIT: Gouki, that is a very elaborate and highly improbable situation. How many times in 100 times would that happen? 1 maybe...?
I don't think that is any reason to not support this. We are trying to give everyone a fair playing field, not cater to the guy that might make the Top 8 -_-
i don't like that idea at all. say two players are tied going into the final weekend, and one makes it to the finals saturday, while the other loses early. the first player can do nothing but watch as the other wins on his second chance, and gets the spot they were fighting for. theres no reason to punish someone for doing well on their first try.
i definitely think saturday's winner should be banned from competing though.
EDIT: matty, that was an example picked out to show exactly why this is a bad idea. the rule is fundamentally flawed, and every week that goes by would be affected the same way. that could happen any week, and it affects the point standings whether it's the final weekend or the first.
also, i don't see what's unfair about the people that care enough to refresh when the topic goes up getting in. as for the dial-up argument, i have an unreliable connection that sometimes takes 20 seconds to load the page up to the quick reply box, and i've never missed a tour when i tried to get in.
a 96 man tour really is fine. we did a few during season 6 and they weren't that much longer when the host was strict with deadlines (mop runs tours really well...although people just finish fast to get away from him...). if 64 is as high as aeo is willing to go, then we should just keep the old format imo.
i definitely think saturday's winner should be banned from competing though.
EDIT: matty, that was an example picked out to show exactly why this is a bad idea. the rule is fundamentally flawed, and every week that goes by would be affected the same way. that could happen any week, and it affects the point standings whether it's the final weekend or the first.
also, i don't see what's unfair about the people that care enough to refresh when the topic goes up getting in. as for the dial-up argument, i have an unreliable connection that sometimes takes 20 seconds to load the page up to the quick reply box, and i've never missed a tour when i tried to get in.
a 96 man tour really is fine. we did a few during season 6 and they weren't that much longer when the host was strict with deadlines (mop runs tours really well...although people just finish fast to get away from him...). if 64 is as high as aeo is willing to go, then we should just keep the old format imo.
I would also like to state that some players often begin there battle late when the match ups were being posted. Like fixing or making their teams during match ups. This should be prohibited as it prolongs the 15 minutes given per round. Instead of waiting for someone to begin their match, rather give the person who's been waiting for his opponent for more than 5 minutes the win.
No, have all match ups begin in less than 5 minutes. Why should it take more than 5 minutes to begin a match? Everyone should be ready whenever as this is a live tournament.
I would like this to be clarified. Does this mean I can wait 14 minutes from the time the match ups were posted? If so I can use this as an advantage and begin my match after 14 minutes. And if there's a stall vs stall battle, it can surpass 15 more minutes. Almost exceeding 30 minutes per round?
I'm pretty sure if you keep an eye on the deadlines a 96 man tour doesn't take that much longer as 64.
As all the "join-just-one-time" possibillities have big flaws you cannot repair, more participants with more strict deadlines is the only other possibillity. (or just do it like always, what is basically quite dumb)
Of course not all matches will be finished in 15 minutes, but sometimes you see already who has the match and you can call it easily or you have to post all other matches and let the the other guys battle while this match finishis, I see no problem in at least trying this once.
As all the "join-just-one-time" possibillities have big flaws you cannot repair, more participants with more strict deadlines is the only other possibillity. (or just do it like always, what is basically quite dumb)
Of course not all matches will be finished in 15 minutes, but sometimes you see already who has the match and you can call it easily or you have to post all other matches and let the the other guys battle while this match finishis, I see no problem in at least trying this once.
really, if it is one or even 4 matches holding up the tourney, is it too hard to go ahead and make brackets each 15 minutes?
Example: 1-16 sign up
1 vs 2
3 vs 4
etc
lets pretend 2 groups aren't done with their matches. Next round is
1 vs 3
(5 vs 6) vs 8
etc
That way we don't have to limit ourselves on how many people we should include. Hosters should be keeping track of which matches are still playing anyway, so it wouldn't take too much extra time to figure out who it is that is still playing.
Example: 1-16 sign up
1 vs 2
3 vs 4
etc
lets pretend 2 groups aren't done with their matches. Next round is
1 vs 3
(5 vs 6) vs 8
etc
That way we don't have to limit ourselves on how many people we should include. Hosters should be keeping track of which matches are still playing anyway, so it wouldn't take too much extra time to figure out who it is that is still playing.
Today's the day then is everyone ready? I sure ain't....
Good Luck!!!
locopoke
Banned deucer.
I think Aeolus came to the decision that for the first 3 weeks of Season 8 you will only be allowed to join 1 Tour per-weekend.
Yes. Lets see how that goes.
So your saying You either choose Sunday or Saturday to take part in?
note - i absolutely love the current way it is and i dont want to see it changed but if so, read the bottom of this (with the edits) to see what i would propose.
i know that only joining once per week probably is the best thing in the end, i think it really takes away from my favorite part of the tour: playing to keep someone from beating you in points
ill be fine if this is only just a 3 week test, but one of the reasons i love the smogon tour is getting in to make sure someone else doesnt overtake me in points. if i almost win a smogon tour on saturday to put me ahead of a "rival" whos very near me in points, yet he waits off until sunday to play (and how will i know which day he will play?) and possibly win, why should he get that chance? I personally like just playing 2 days a week, as it creates competition and allows you to try and insure that someone doesnt overtake you in points because they waited until you and all the other good players played before joining the next one.
i also think playing twice a week is best, because really, i have been fucked over in many tours on like round 1, when i knew i could have advanced pretty far. looking at my own example, in st7, i lost ou 1 week 4 iirc to some extremely horrid luck, only to win the tour the next sunday. if this was rule in effect, then i wouldnt have been able to get any points. the 2 chances a week rule allows less complaining about hax and more competition.
im sorry, i know some people are really frustrated with poor internet connection, but limiting entries per week, while may allowing them to get in, just hurt a new selection of people (those with horrid luck on the day they play, or those who are trying to make sure someone doesnt advance too far to overtake them in points).
edit: although there is a different possible solution that i would compromise on, and that is: allowing anyone who lost round 1 of the saturday tour to be able to join the sunday tour. this is fair because they didnt get any points on the saturday tour, still keeps things competitive, and gives you a second chance to just horrid luck.
and its a "saving" idea if 128 different people dont sign up to play (under the current way, its suggesting 64 people sign up day 1, 64 dif people sign up day 2. my way would allow 96 dif people which is much easier to obtain).
edit 2: i see this idea was already talked about kind of, but yeah, i support it. however, i do like the current way best for the reasons gouki stated above.
edit 3: oof, im not trying to bitch and im fine if this is just for the first 3 weeks, but if we are looking for a longterm solution, i dislike it
i know that only joining once per week probably is the best thing in the end, i think it really takes away from my favorite part of the tour: playing to keep someone from beating you in points
ill be fine if this is only just a 3 week test, but one of the reasons i love the smogon tour is getting in to make sure someone else doesnt overtake me in points. if i almost win a smogon tour on saturday to put me ahead of a "rival" whos very near me in points, yet he waits off until sunday to play (and how will i know which day he will play?) and possibly win, why should he get that chance? I personally like just playing 2 days a week, as it creates competition and allows you to try and insure that someone doesnt overtake you in points because they waited until you and all the other good players played before joining the next one.
i also think playing twice a week is best, because really, i have been fucked over in many tours on like round 1, when i knew i could have advanced pretty far. looking at my own example, in st7, i lost ou 1 week 4 iirc to some extremely horrid luck, only to win the tour the next sunday. if this was rule in effect, then i wouldnt have been able to get any points. the 2 chances a week rule allows less complaining about hax and more competition.
im sorry, i know some people are really frustrated with poor internet connection, but limiting entries per week, while may allowing them to get in, just hurt a new selection of people (those with horrid luck on the day they play, or those who are trying to make sure someone doesnt advance too far to overtake them in points).
edit: although there is a different possible solution that i would compromise on, and that is: allowing anyone who lost round 1 of the saturday tour to be able to join the sunday tour. this is fair because they didnt get any points on the saturday tour, still keeps things competitive, and gives you a second chance to just horrid luck.
and its a "saving" idea if 128 different people dont sign up to play (under the current way, its suggesting 64 people sign up day 1, 64 dif people sign up day 2. my way would allow 96 dif people which is much easier to obtain).
edit 2: i see this idea was already talked about kind of, but yeah, i support it. however, i do like the current way best for the reasons gouki stated above.
edit 3: oof, im not trying to bitch and im fine if this is just for the first 3 weeks, but if we are looking for a longterm solution, i dislike it
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