Too true if you are special defensive. However, I tend to get SpDef dropped too often by Reuniclus' Psychic/Focus Blast so whilst its possible for Quag to beat it, I try and avoid that matchup where possible.
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Smogon University PO Statistics — June 2011
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
- Status
Heatran in sun is a beast. And heatran is still one of the best counters to scizor and ferrothorn. And every other steel type (Jirachi, metagross, bronzong, skarmory, magnezone, and even excadrill if it has a balloon) And it also is the best absorber of fire attacks everywhere.Plus, balloon and shuca will help its ground weakness and because of its great defenses, unstabbed fighting attacks will rarely KO.
And scizor is bad too? I dont think an explanation is necessary to explain why scizor is a top threat.
Er, is it just me, or is anyone else confused as to why Scrafty went DOWN? And it wasn't exactly a modest drop either...6 spots is nothing to laugh at when OU only has 3.41% of all pokemon.
Seriously, I use this set:
Scrafty @Chople Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
Moxie
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
Yes, I run Drain Punch over Hi Jump Kick. I've found Drain Punch to be way more useful, because being able to heal shitloads of health back when you kill something with Drain Punch is really useful. Also, I do run Chople Berry, and it's screwed over so many poor souls that it's not even funny. Reuniclus thinks it can try and check you? Focus Blast doesn't kill. Terrakion thinks it can kill you with Close Combat? That doesn't kill either. Gengar wants to stop you from DDing with its Focus Blast? Nah. ScarfTar thinks it can revenge-kill you with Superpower? Lol. That Sawsbuck thinks it can Jump Kick you to death? Heh, not even close. Even a weakened Conkeldurr might have a bit of trouble now since it can't revenge-kill with Mach Punch (though I'd advise against staying in on them if they're at full health).
I swear that so many people look at 90 base Attack and 58 base Speed and think it won't be able to sweep. That's blatantly untrue.
People don't seem to realize that it's not Scrafty's base Attack that makes him so dangerous. The things that makes him dangerous are:
1) His incredible coverage. Dark/Fighting/Ice hits 11 out of 17 types for super-effective damage and isn't resisted by anything. Unlike a lot of other Fighting-types, he's not walled to hell by Gliscor, and against Psychic-types, he doesn't have to rely on a weak unSTAB Payback.
2) He outspeeds base 111s after one DD. This is arguably the most important speed benchmark thanks to Thundurus, so it gives Scrafty just enough Speed to pull off a sweep.
3) Moxie is ridiculous, because all it takes is one kill after a Dragon Dance to be at +2/+1 and have all that super-effective coverage. As you can imagine, after that first kill, the opponent is going to be in a lot of trouble if they don't have a pokemon that can not only survive a hit, but also inflict burn. Or if they have a pokemon that's bulky enough to take a hit and phaze him out, they can try that. But unless it's an all-out stall team, it's not easy to deal with Scrafty after he gets going due to Moxie. It's especially hard if your team has stuff that can't take his Drain Punch very well, because then he'll just be getting all his health back in the process of killing your team.
4) His bulk allows him to take all sorts of hits, even when it's uninvested. To put it into perspective, he takes hits about as well as Garchomp does on the special side when both have 4 HP EVs. Another example is that 252 HP Rotom-W only takes hits about 5% better than 4 HP Scrafty, and Rotom-W is usually seen to be pretty bulky. Coupled with Drain Punch, this makes Scrafty really hard to take out when he starts up his sweep. It also means he can set up Dragon Dance easily, sometimes more than one.
5) He gives a lot of weather teams trouble. Sand in particular seems to have the most trouble with him, but the other weathers hate facing him as well, making him a very good pick on weather and non-weather teams alike. He does have a little bit of trouble with Chlorophyll-stacking Sun teams though.
For instance, let's look at what he can do against the weather teams (forgive me if I don't remember every single member from these teams, I'm just thinking off the top of my head):
Sand - Kills Tyranitar, Excadrill (barely survives an Adamant LO EQ but is possible), Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Landorus, Gliscor. Has a bit of trouble against Scizor, Jirachi, and Skarmory, but those can be taken out by other teammates. He can really hurt a lot of offensive sand teams though, and he sets up easily against stuff like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn.
Rain - Kills Tornadus, Thundurus, Latios, Latias, Ferrothorn, Virizion, Dragonite. Sets up easily against Ferrothorn and maybe Forretress. Has a little bit of trouble with Jirachi, Skarmory and Scarf Politoed, but with a little bit of support he can still run through a lot of the serious threats in a Rain team.
Hail - A lot of these members are weak to Fighting, so after 1 DD, most of them will go down fairly easily. Don't try setting up on Kyurem though.
Sun - Scrafty admittedly does have a bit more trouble against these teams, mostly because of Sleep Powder Chlorophyll users being a pain. However, he kills Heatran, Sawsbuck, Venusaur, Chandelure, Victini, Lilligant and since Ninetales is going to begrudgingly come out after a few boosts, he will get killed pretty easily too. Watch out for Venusaur and Lilligant's Sleep Powders though. Tangrowth will most likely be able to win against you no matter what unfortunately, and Regenerator Tangrowth is damn near impossible to kill even with Ice Punch. Darmanitan might try to revenge-kill as well since they tend to be Scarfed, so watch out for them.
I run a Sun team that's gotten me up to top 20 (sometimes top 10) on the ladder several times (keeps getting knocked back down due to random losing streaks), but I have to say that the success is due to my Scrafty, Sawsbuck, and Tangrowth all working together to crush each others' counters. Scrafty is also a really good plan B in case I can't get rid of my opponent's weather changer, in which case, both Tangrowth and Sawsbuck will devote their efforts to helping him out.
Basically, use Scrafty people, he's really damn good. Remember how people use Nidoking for his super-effective coverage despite the fact that he only has 85 base Special Attack? Well Scrafty has that super-effective coverage, but he doesn't need anyone to pass him shit. He can do it himself.
(PS, people really shouldn't be hating on Sun, it's a damn good weather...)
--
Also, just a minor thing on the Politoed rise, I have a feeling that its rise isn't solely due to Garchomp's leave. I think people are finally starting to realize that Politoed in itself is a very good abuser of its own Rain and that he's not just there to continually take hits and use Scald. He actually does a shitload of damage with his Specs set, and is a very good revenger with its Scarf set. When you have a Hydro Pump that's able to 2HKO Blissey, you know that shit is hitting hard.
Seriously, I use this set:
Scrafty @Chople Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
Moxie
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
Yes, I run Drain Punch over Hi Jump Kick. I've found Drain Punch to be way more useful, because being able to heal shitloads of health back when you kill something with Drain Punch is really useful. Also, I do run Chople Berry, and it's screwed over so many poor souls that it's not even funny. Reuniclus thinks it can try and check you? Focus Blast doesn't kill. Terrakion thinks it can kill you with Close Combat? That doesn't kill either. Gengar wants to stop you from DDing with its Focus Blast? Nah. ScarfTar thinks it can revenge-kill you with Superpower? Lol. That Sawsbuck thinks it can Jump Kick you to death? Heh, not even close. Even a weakened Conkeldurr might have a bit of trouble now since it can't revenge-kill with Mach Punch (though I'd advise against staying in on them if they're at full health).
I swear that so many people look at 90 base Attack and 58 base Speed and think it won't be able to sweep. That's blatantly untrue.
People don't seem to realize that it's not Scrafty's base Attack that makes him so dangerous. The things that makes him dangerous are:
1) His incredible coverage. Dark/Fighting/Ice hits 11 out of 17 types for super-effective damage and isn't resisted by anything. Unlike a lot of other Fighting-types, he's not walled to hell by Gliscor, and against Psychic-types, he doesn't have to rely on a weak unSTAB Payback.
2) He outspeeds base 111s after one DD. This is arguably the most important speed benchmark thanks to Thundurus, so it gives Scrafty just enough Speed to pull off a sweep.
3) Moxie is ridiculous, because all it takes is one kill after a Dragon Dance to be at +2/+1 and have all that super-effective coverage. As you can imagine, after that first kill, the opponent is going to be in a lot of trouble if they don't have a pokemon that can not only survive a hit, but also inflict burn. Or if they have a pokemon that's bulky enough to take a hit and phaze him out, they can try that. But unless it's an all-out stall team, it's not easy to deal with Scrafty after he gets going due to Moxie. It's especially hard if your team has stuff that can't take his Drain Punch very well, because then he'll just be getting all his health back in the process of killing your team.
4) His bulk allows him to take all sorts of hits, even when it's uninvested. To put it into perspective, he takes hits about as well as Garchomp does on the special side when both have 4 HP EVs. Another example is that 252 HP Rotom-W only takes hits about 5% better than 4 HP Scrafty, and Rotom-W is usually seen to be pretty bulky. Coupled with Drain Punch, this makes Scrafty really hard to take out when he starts up his sweep. It also means he can set up Dragon Dance easily, sometimes more than one.
5) He gives a lot of weather teams trouble. Sand in particular seems to have the most trouble with him, but the other weathers hate facing him as well, making him a very good pick on weather and non-weather teams alike. He does have a little bit of trouble with Chlorophyll-stacking Sun teams though.
For instance, let's look at what he can do against the weather teams (forgive me if I don't remember every single member from these teams, I'm just thinking off the top of my head):
Sand - Kills Tyranitar, Excadrill (barely survives an Adamant LO EQ but is possible), Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Landorus, Gliscor. Has a bit of trouble against Scizor, Jirachi, and Skarmory, but those can be taken out by other teammates. He can really hurt a lot of offensive sand teams though, and he sets up easily against stuff like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn.
Rain - Kills Tornadus, Thundurus, Latios, Latias, Ferrothorn, Virizion, Dragonite. Sets up easily against Ferrothorn and maybe Forretress. Has a little bit of trouble with Jirachi, Skarmory and Scarf Politoed, but with a little bit of support he can still run through a lot of the serious threats in a Rain team.
Hail - A lot of these members are weak to Fighting, so after 1 DD, most of them will go down fairly easily. Don't try setting up on Kyurem though.
Sun - Scrafty admittedly does have a bit more trouble against these teams, mostly because of Sleep Powder Chlorophyll users being a pain. However, he kills Heatran, Sawsbuck, Venusaur, Chandelure, Victini, Lilligant and since Ninetales is going to begrudgingly come out after a few boosts, he will get killed pretty easily too. Watch out for Venusaur and Lilligant's Sleep Powders though. Tangrowth will most likely be able to win against you no matter what unfortunately, and Regenerator Tangrowth is damn near impossible to kill even with Ice Punch. Darmanitan might try to revenge-kill as well since they tend to be Scarfed, so watch out for them.
I run a Sun team that's gotten me up to top 20 (sometimes top 10) on the ladder several times (keeps getting knocked back down due to random losing streaks), but I have to say that the success is due to my Scrafty, Sawsbuck, and Tangrowth all working together to crush each others' counters. Scrafty is also a really good plan B in case I can't get rid of my opponent's weather changer, in which case, both Tangrowth and Sawsbuck will devote their efforts to helping him out.
Basically, use Scrafty people, he's really damn good. Remember how people use Nidoking for his super-effective coverage despite the fact that he only has 85 base Special Attack? Well Scrafty has that super-effective coverage, but he doesn't need anyone to pass him shit. He can do it himself.
(PS, people really shouldn't be hating on Sun, it's a damn good weather...)
--
Also, just a minor thing on the Politoed rise, I have a feeling that its rise isn't solely due to Garchomp's leave. I think people are finally starting to realize that Politoed in itself is a very good abuser of its own Rain and that he's not just there to continually take hits and use Scald. He actually does a shitload of damage with his Specs set, and is a very good revenger with its Scarf set. When you have a Hydro Pump that's able to 2HKO Blissey, you know that shit is hitting hard.
I'm actually getting to a point where I'd rather not use Moxie over Shed Skin under any circumstances. I can think of at least three recent and separate occasions in which my Scrafty's sweep would be stopped cold by a random status attack, like Will-o-Wisp from Jellicent (something you should be able to set up on/force out), or Twave from Thundurus, which Shed Skin will eventually come along and clean up for you. I know 30% isn't stellar by any means, but it's a good excuse to keep Dragon Dancing on defensive Pokemon when you know their only form of retalliation is burning or paralyzing you (and they can't ever be sure whether or not you have Shed Skin to heal it off).
Also, Hi Jump Kick is powerful. Really fucking powerful. It's gotten my Scrafty killed before, sure, but a Skarmory or Hippowdon coming in to Roar you out knows they're only getting one shot to do it, since it 2HKOs at +1. There's actually a whole lot more that can revenge you when using Drain Punch, since even at +1, Scrafty is a weak Pokemon using a weak move, and can't avoid being OHKOed by something like Specs Toed.
Also, Hi Jump Kick is powerful. Really fucking powerful. It's gotten my Scrafty killed before, sure, but a Skarmory or Hippowdon coming in to Roar you out knows they're only getting one shot to do it, since it 2HKOs at +1. There's actually a whole lot more that can revenge you when using Drain Punch, since even at +1, Scrafty is a weak Pokemon using a weak move, and can't avoid being OHKOed by something like Specs Toed.
True enough. I've tried Shed Skin before, but I just tend to have really shitty luck with that sort of thing, so I decided to go for the surefire boost. I don't usually have a problem with Jellicent since it can't usually take the onslaught of entry hazards as well as well as a DD Crunch. Thundurus's last resort Thunder Wave set is really fucking annoying though, I'll admit that. I just like being able to have my attack raise, since Scrafty's Attack is still only 418 after one DD, which still isn't enough to take out a lot of bulky pokemon.
However, I think Moxie goes a lot better with Drain Punch and Shed Skin goes better with Hi Jump Kick. I personally use Drain Punch because I have a hard-on for sweepers with HP-absorption moves, which is why I'm also using Tangrowth (Growth Giga Drain is awesome), and Sawsbuck (Swords Dance Horn Leech is awesome). It just seems to give my opponent a feeling of hopelessness which I enjoy. I also like being able to just barely survive that hit from Excadrill, only to OHKO with Drain Punch and get almost all of my health back since Excadrill has that meaty base HP. Same thing against Terrakion, Tyranitar, and other such pokemon. Being able to use your Fighting-move freely against stuff like Ferrothorn and Blissey is nice too, since you don't have to worry about them ripping off half your HP from a Protected Hi Jump Kick. Not having to predict when that Gengar or Jellicent is gonna switch in can be good for your mental health...
I guess Drain Punch goes better with my team Skarmory and Hippowdon tend to get their asses handed to them by my other team members, but I can definitely see why people would use Hi Jump Kick. Just remember though, it may look like Skarmory and Hippowdon get only one shot at phazing you out if you use Hi Jump Kick, but that may not be the case, since it really depends on what the phaze drags out since they both have reliable recovery.
from page 5:
Anyway, I'm surprised by the Scrafty drop as well. It's probably the poke I hate facing the most. Not much else to say, really. Oh yea, making a team around DD Scrafty right now, as somehow, I've NEVER used him. What the hell am I to have never used him?
After reading your last warstory, I'm surprised Gallade isn't mentioned in this post :/
Anyway, I'm surprised by the Scrafty drop as well. It's probably the poke I hate facing the most. Not much else to say, really. Oh yea, making a team around DD Scrafty right now, as somehow, I've NEVER used him. What the hell am I to have never used him?
Thanks, R_D, for the stats. Love yah bunches. ;)
-Uhh.... To all you OU-whores, please keep your little pets where they belong. You know, Porygon2, Machamp and Whimsicott... Yeah...
-Quagsire finally gets the spotlight it deserves. Recover / Swagger / Stockpile / Scald or Earthquake. :)
-Not surprised of the increase in Rain, Politoed, and its abusers, Ferro and Thundurus.
-Good riddance to Mamo and Celebi in UU.
I say: Good riddance to you, bird-slut Staraptor.
-Uhh.... To all you OU-whores, please keep your little pets where they belong. You know, Porygon2, Machamp and Whimsicott... Yeah...
-Quagsire finally gets the spotlight it deserves. Recover / Swagger / Stockpile / Scald or Earthquake. :)
-Not surprised of the increase in Rain, Politoed, and its abusers, Ferro and Thundurus.
-Good riddance to Mamo and Celebi in UU.
Try Bulk Up, it's better.
Dragon Tail. Lets it psuedo Espeon, iirc.
You do realize Staraptor in 4th UU was, arguably, the worst UU meta in UU history. Also, the loss of the lead spot in 5th gen. made Azelf mediocre at best. It can't do anything that I know of more effectively than anything else in UU. Also, Staraptor getting Reckless didn't help stabilize the issue of Staraptor in UU...
I say: Good riddance to you, bird-slut Staraptor.
| 79 | Snorlax | 11180 | 1.8419 |
That's a bit low for my taste, expcially when things like Dugtrio and Hitmontop are ahead of him.
That's a bit low for my taste, expcially when things like Dugtrio and Hitmontop are ahead of him.
Just a quick question but just to be certain. Is any pokemon moving tiers this month or is that going to wait until next month?
im surprised azumarill didnt make it to ou yet i mean this poke can rip through oppents sand teams like nothing in the rain.
OhKOs tyranitar,exacdrill,landourus,thundurous
and
2HKOs gliscor,skarmory (with waterfall)
sigh i guess jelllicent is keeping it down. ):
but im happy for politoed its about time you jumped up
(:
OhKOs tyranitar,exacdrill,landourus,thundurous
and
2HKOs gliscor,skarmory (with waterfall)
sigh i guess jelllicent is keeping it down. ):
but im happy for politoed its about time you jumped up
(:
Jolteon is completely awesome under the rain! OHKOs 6 hp / 0 Spd Thunderus with Thunder which is nice when it switches into you and it'll Nasty Plot. he's also fairly specially bulky. Usually can take a hit. it's strange when I keep facing Gliscors who switch into Jolteon and eat an HP ice to the face due to prediction... Also, Volt Switch is a really cool attack for specs Jolt! I'd imagine if Thunderus gets banned, Jolteon will rise up a bit because it's spec'd thunders really lay a hurt to anything that's not specially bulky. It's just, sand can be really scary against it so Virizion and Starmie are cool pokemon to run with Jolteon.
yea, I feel like Jolteon and Raikou would do well in OU. Jolteon does not have Nasty Plot, but it does have Fake Tears. Combined with some spike-stacking I can see Jolteon clean stuff up. Modest Jolteon can really close the gap of power between itself and Thundurs.
Recover?
Lucario and Metagross are only a few spots away from UU, lol. That would be an interesting metagame. Also, YEAH MAMOSWINE IS OU. I'm also surprised Azumarill isn't used more. The only thing that 100% walls it is Jellicent, but its so useful. It OHKOs Excadrill with CB Aqua Jet, OHKOs Thundurus and Landorus, OHKOs Tyranitar with Waterfall, and OHKOs Ferrothorn with Superpower.
slowbro laughs at azu just as much as jellicent does. bulky waters really just beat azu (whih while i agree arent that common anymore are still common).
Intresting? It would just be late 4th Gen OU. In fact, it pretty much is. I can run my old 4th Gen stall team Minus Blissey & Vaporeon if I really wanted to and it'd work fine if not better with an even Bulkier Ghost-type, Faster Toxic Spiker, & Eviolite Chansey available.
To be honest, Staraptor's only as good as it is because of how the metagame is shaped this early with the lack of good Steel-types of course adding to that, but when Hitmontop is number 3 and Azelf is 19, I kind of start to doubt that people are even making an attempt to stop it. Anything that outspeeds can beat it one on one because it's going to KO itself after you hit it once. Even Pokemon like Zapdos. Staraptor's not OHKOing Zapdos with Double Edge. Eviolite Murkrow. Priority Thunder Wave & Roost,
If you're really even thinking about banning Staraptor, we are in for a LONG process of banning everything "we don't feel like countering." First Staraptor, then Hitmonlee, and we'll keep going until BL is it's own metagame filled with Darmanitans & Fighting-types. I say fighting-types because this metagame is extremely predictable and if the Pokemon I think are coming down from OU actually will, yeah, fighting-types.
I'll be honest. The ONLY good thing about UU is the lack of weather. It's a pretty hilarious "metagame."
Staraptor is likly to be banned from UU because it outspeeds a massive amount of the teir, and literally 2HKO's everything.
Sure, Staraptor will die in the end. After taking half your team with it.
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As for Azumarill? That's what Team Preveiw and Prediction is for.
Seriously, run:
Waterfall [Or Ice Punch if you fear Dragons]/Aqua Jet/Superpower/Toxic
You know that Team Preveiw that showed you Jellicent/Slowbro? Throw a Toxic at them, they hate that.
The Sand Team has Ferrothorn? OHKO with Superpower.
It's BECAUSE Azumarill is so simple, the switch-in is also usually blatently obvious. Which allows you to use the right move to deal massive damage, or, even better, Double Switch to a counter, forceing out their Excadrill/Landlos/Volcarona/Terrakion/Whatever due to Azumarill's sheer presence.
Lack of divesity in most Sand teams also goes a long way. You just know that their Water check will be either Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Vaporeon or Slowbro. MAYBE Virizion at a reach.
And, as for Hazards, there's this little thing called Taunt, and another little thing called Rapid Spin. There's also this thing called Wish.
Not to mention most of Azumarill's checks get ripped apart by said hazards equally badly.
Sure, Staraptor will die in the end. After taking half your team with it.
---
As for Azumarill? That's what Team Preveiw and Prediction is for.
Seriously, run:
Waterfall [Or Ice Punch if you fear Dragons]/Aqua Jet/Superpower/Toxic
You know that Team Preveiw that showed you Jellicent/Slowbro? Throw a Toxic at them, they hate that.
The Sand Team has Ferrothorn? OHKO with Superpower.
It's BECAUSE Azumarill is so simple, the switch-in is also usually blatently obvious. Which allows you to use the right move to deal massive damage, or, even better, Double Switch to a counter, forceing out their Excadrill/Landlos/Volcarona/Terrakion/Whatever due to Azumarill's sheer presence.
Lack of divesity in most Sand teams also goes a long way. You just know that their Water check will be either Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Vaporeon or Slowbro. MAYBE Virizion at a reach.
And, as for Hazards, there's this little thing called Taunt, and another little thing called Rapid Spin. There's also this thing called Wish.
Not to mention most of Azumarill's checks get ripped apart by said hazards equally badly.
Yes it is (assuming SR). If Zapdos is invested enough to survive a Double Edge from Staraptor, it can't outspeed and even the bulkiest Zapdos is 2HKO'd. Have you even played this UU at all this month?
Hitmontop is a great check to Staraptor with Technitop, so that's a bit of a stupid thing to say too. Its number 3 for a very good reason (not to mention that Hitmontop either checks a shit load of stuff or counters stuff that gives Staraptor a bit of trouble such as Registeel and Rhyperior [both of which are wrecked by CC anyway]).
Brilliant. I have to try that set. Toxic actually demolishes most of it's main counters.
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