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Some sort of Egg 'RNG' Abuse (Read the first post!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Fennekin, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Yilx

    Yilx Sad
    is an Artistis a Smogon IRC AOP

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    Alright, something I want to clarify and hasn't really been touched on yet properly in this thread.

    1. Ditto counts as the Dad during Genderless breeding, and the Genderless Pokemon as the Mom. Is this true?
    2. Ditto counts as the opposite gender of whatever you put in into the Daycare. For example, if you put in a Female Pokemon, Ditto will count as the 'Dad' and if you put in a Male Ditto will count as the 'Mom'. Is this true?
  2. goomy pls

    goomy pls

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    Show Hide

    With 80% chance of an egg per cycle (Oval charm and either 2 pokemon of the same species and and same OT, or Oval charm and 2 pokemon of different species and different OT), it takes an average of 320 steps to generate an egg. The bike travels at 14.5 steps per second, and assuming no steps are wasted, it takes an average of 22 seconds to generate an egg.

    The time from soft resetting to regaining control of your character is about 15 seconds (can vary with lag).

    The time to enter the O power menu, activate Hatching Power, and regain control of your character is about 7 seconds.

    The time to talk to the daycareman (when standing right next to him) and collect an egg is about 7 seconds.

    The time to press b on "oh", watch the egg hatch animation, and regain control of your character is about 23 seconds.

    The time to fly to Kiloude and have the Judge rate your pokemon is about 33 seconds.

    The time to hatch an egg using Flame Body and Hatch O Power lv3, assuming no steps are wasted, is 27 seconds for Magikarp, 49 seconds for Togepi, 71 seconds for Skitty, and 93 seconds for Kangaskhan or Magnemite.

    Altogether, the time to complete an egg and determine inheritance using the Kiloude Judge is:
    Magikarp (1:1) 134 seconds
    Togepi (7:1) 156 seconds
    Skitty (3:1) 178 seconds
    Kangaskhan/Magnemite (0:1) 200 seconds.
    These are average times assuming ideal conditions.

    On average, it takes 40 seconds longer per egg to check inheritance using the Battle Institute than the Judge in Kiloude with a perfect 182IV and a perfect 0IV (or any other interlocking combination). Time saved per egg using the Kiloude Judge rather than the Battle Institute is:
    Magikarp (1:1) 30%
    Togepi (7:1) 26%
    Skitty (3:1) 22%
    Kangaskhan/Magnemite (0:1) 20%

    Show Hide

    Assuming the ideal situation that you are able to obtain/borrow 6IV parents to create your perfect 6IV testers, the average time to breed a perfect mother and father with 182IV and 0IV is:

    Magikarp (1:1) 134 sec/egg * ( 32 eggs for first parent + (32 / 0.5 chance of being opposite gender) eggs for second parent) = ~12900 seconds (3.6 hours)

    Togepi (7:1) 156 sec/egg *
    {
    7/8 chance of male as first parent * (32 eggs for first parent + (32 / 0.125 chance of being opposite gender) eggs for second parent)
    +
    1/8 chance of female as first parent * (32 eggs for first parent + (32 / 0.875 chance of being opposite gender) eggs for second parent)
    }
    = ~40600 seconds (11.3 hours)


    Skitty (3:1) 178 sec/egg *
    {
    1/4 chance of male as first parent * (32 eggs for first parent + (32 / .75 chance of being opposite gender) eggs for second parent)
    +
    3/4 chance of female as first parent * (32 eggs for first parent + (32 / 0.25 chance of being opposite gender) eggs for second parent)
    }
    = ~24700 seconds (6.9 hours)


    Kangaskhan/Magnemite (0:1) 200 sec/egg * ( 32 eggs for first parent + 32 eggs for second parent) = 12800 seconds (3.6 hours)

    Note that the above is assuming that you breed a mother and a father of that specific species. Taking into account the fact that you can use different species in the same egg group, the time may be shorter as you only need to breed a perfect mother.


    Number of eggs needed to hatch to justify the time spent breeding perfect parents:
    Magikarp (1:1) 323 (12 hours of hatching)
    Togepi (7:1) 1015 (44 hours of hatching)
    Skitty (3:1) 618 (31 hours of hatching)
    Kangaskhan/Magnemite (0:1) 320 (18 hours of hatching)

    323 eggs looks to be managable at first, but remember that the whole point of this RNG method is to hatch as few eggs as possible to get to your desired result.

    What I'm trying to get at with all this is that it is probably not worth your time to breed perfect parents in order to check inheritance using the Kiloude Judge instead of the Battle Institute.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  3. Unusep

    Unusep

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    1. I believe Ditto counts as the mother during genderless breeding.
    2. This is true.
  4. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings

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    Are you claiming that it's not worth it in general or are you just comparing the time investment between the two IV judges? If it's the former, I would disagree as it has helped me surmount the "1/24 plateau" numerous times.
  5. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    He's saying, if you want to save time by using the judge to figure out inherited stats instead of using the battle institute, just use the institute.

    Unless you already have perfect parents, of course.
  6. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings

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    Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I completely misunderstood the point.
  7. VCrowe

    VCrowe

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    There are other ways to get over the 1/24 plateau, ways that I would rather do if I don't have a large pool of parents. I have found one situation that may warrant this method as a necessary process though, and thats breeding for HP Fire.

    I plan on gathering a very large pool (2-4 boxes) of Froakie by using these parents;

    Male - Hasty - Protean
    11-30-30-30-19-30

    Female - Hasty - Protean
    31-X-31-X-31-X

    I figure that around 2 or 3 boxes of offspring from breeding these two, that I will have a nice assortment of breeding fodder to choose from. At that point I can check my inheritance, and then just replace the parents with ones that will give me 31-30-31-30-X-30. If I find it's still too difficult, I will probably continue hatching breeding fodder for another box or two.

    Once I get my first Froakie with all the necessary stats and stuff, I plan on SR and then re-obtaining that same egg. Then I'll be using the new 'Instacheck Hotspot' to find someone who can hatch the egg as a shiny.
  8. Roadagain

    Roadagain

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    I've been using this for a fair bit in the last week or so, and if nothing else, at least it feels less tedious.
    However, I encountered something I've never seen happen.

    I've been using two Magikarp to check the IVs, and everything has worked out just fine.
    However, as I was breeding some Goomies, I ended up getting a inheritance spread of HP/Def/Sp. Att./Sp. Def/Speed, which is exactly what I wanted. Unfortunately, I realized I don't have a way to get a Calm Sap Sipper on either gender while filling all of 5 IVs.
    So I took a Calm Hydration Goomy and a Naughty Sap Sipper Goomy for this, and hoping the 20% chance of Ability being inherited from the father would come into play (I thought Everstone now makes it always go from whichever holds it though, unless it's a Hidden Ability).
    The Everstone went to the Calm Hydration Goomy, and the Destiny Knot went to the other one.

    I tried twice, since I thought I got them backwards, but both times, the hatched Goomy had Naughty nature. It also had Sap Sipper, and the 5 perfect IVs I wanted.

    I still have the save to repeat that (And if nothing else works, I'm just gonna get a new goomy/Sliggoo with Calm nature and whatnot), so I'm curious to know what went wrong here.
  9. VCrowe

    VCrowe

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    That... Shouldn't be possible. Your saying you gave the Everstone to the Calm Goomy, but your offspring was Naughty?
  10. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

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    I also meant the IVs of the magikarp baby, gible parents, and gible baby (assuming you haven't saved. Although at least the gible parents and baby, though).
  11. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Everstone has only a chance of passing down nature. It's not guaranteed.
  12. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

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    I thought as of BW2, Everstone will always pass down the nature of the parent holding it?
    TorchicBlaziken likes this.
  13. Stellar

    Stellar true and everlasting
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Orange Islands

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    Everstone passes nature 100% of the time.
    VCrowe and TorchicBlaziken like this.
  14. SilentRoss

    SilentRoss

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    I'm getting the same problem a few people have mentioned in the thread.

    My Magikarps aren't passing down 5 IV's with the Destiny Knot held. Anyone know why or a fix for this? :/
  15. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Explain your method so we can see if you're missing a step.

    Also, check IVs to the most accuracy possible. Also check if your parents have any EVs that might mess up IV calculations.
  16. SilentRoss

    SilentRoss

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    >Caught 2 Karps
    >Take them to the battle institute
    >Note down level 50 stats
    >Put them in daycare with destiny knot
    >Deny first egg, save
    >Take second egg
    >Check stats at battle institute
    >Compare with parents
  17. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Stats?

    Again, check if they have EVs. Also, simply noting stats will not work, you have to take into account natures and such. Use an IV calculator to find out IVs, not the stats at lvl 50.
  18. SilentRoss

    SilentRoss

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    Okay I'll try with an IV calc and report back, thanks :D
  19. VCrowe

    VCrowe

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    Checking stats and not IV's will only work if both your test parents have nuetral natures.
  20. goomy pls

    goomy pls

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    What is this 1/24 thing you speak of?
  21. VCrowe

    VCrowe

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    It's the one out of twenty-four chance of hatching a quint flawless 'mon when breeding quad flawless ones. It's considered the most difficult part of breeding, and because of it many people choose to ignore nature, and instead breed with one 4IV 'mon holding a Power Item, and another holding the Destiny Knot. Once you have a 5IV poke, your odds of hatching another one with Destiny Knot + Everstone is about 1/10.
  22. SilentRoss

    SilentRoss

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    Yes, I got it sorted thanks :)
  23. Croconaw

    Croconaw

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    Is 'shininess' locked? I just hatched a shiny Magikarp trying to breed for Froakie, might update.

    update: ayy shiny Gardevoir, my goth princess and she's perfect in every way! I don't care for any shiny Pokemon other than her, couldn't have asked for a better outcome. and yes, it is locked as long as it's on the same ratio, in my case they were a foreign pair.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  24. Roadagain

    Roadagain

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    Yeah.
    As I said, not something I've seen before.

    I ended up sleeping afterwards and got around now to give it a third shot, and this time it... worked?
    I have no idea. I guess it's possible I somehow stuck the Everstone wrong twice in a row even when explictly taking care to not do so, but... no.
  25. Stedus

    Stedus

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    Hi guys, I have been doing some test with this RNG Breeding

    For the Test:
    I use 2 Magikarp (no Hidden Ability) with the same Nature to breed
    Then after I got the desired IVs spread, the Offspring is a Male and has no Hiddent Ability
    I use Eevee Male with Hidden Ability to breed with Ditto (Eevee has 7-1 Gender Ratio)
    The Eevee Offspring got 5 perfect IVs (as I expected) the Gender is Male and it has no Hidden ability
    I tried to reset it multiple times but its still the same

    So my question is, whether both the Gender and Ability are locked as well?

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