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Spelling and Grammar Standards

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Ray Jay, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    This is something that has been bugging me for months now so I thought I'd speak up. I'm still seeing, on recent analysis, phrases that imply BW is a new generation. Certainly I'd say we're in "early" BW but it is not new. Here are some examples of things I see on at least 80% of new analyses that I check (or stamp for amateur checkers):

    "With the advent of team preview..."
    "With the introduction of the Eviolite, which boosts the defenses of NFE Pokemon by 50%..." (this is especially unnecessary -- Eviolite has an item description page of its own)
    "With the new sleep mechanics..."
    "Dragonite's new ability, Multiscale..."

    Obviously, it's expected that on-site analyses that went up during the mass upload still say these things, since many of them were finished when BW was still new. Once school is out, I will be fixing as many of those as possible. Honestly, it's not hard to fix. All that needs to be done is removing the novelty factor (words like "new", "advent", "introduction", etc.), and omitting them during grammar checks. Here are some example fixes of the above fragments:

    "Team preview allows for easy prediction..."
    "Eviolite makes Porygon2 a sturdy tank..."
    "BW's sleep mechanics make RestTalk more of a liability..."
    "Multiscale nearly guarantees Dragonite a set up opportunity at full health..."

    This still emphasizes the difference between Gens IV and V without pretending that Gen V is brand spankin' new, which helps make the analyses more current as the metagame evolves until Gen VI.
  2. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    ive edited a few of those as well, as a general rule of thumb, write analysis for the pokemon not the beginning stages of 5th gen (this was terrible in golurk's ou)

    however, i should note in:
    "With the new sleep mechanics..."
    "Dragonite's new ability, Multiscale..."

    i dont see much of a problem, as these changes are new to 5th gen in general are directly relate to the pokemon - multiscale is still dnites new ability in 5th gen. its probably preferred if you dont do that but in those cases, its not a big deal
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    I concur, carry on gentlemen
  4. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Not really a grammar controversy. However, I've recently noticed that a lot of GP checkers have been checking analyses which are lacking in description. IMO unless there are at least 2 full paragraphs for each set, it isn't descriptive enough for set purposes. Two 3 sentence "paragraphs" per set just doesn't cut it, because the people who actually use these analyses, usually newer players, need to actually know how each set works. A number of sets basically say "these are 4 moves, these are other options, this is how to EV it". I think we should set a content minimum.
  5. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Quality before quantity, though both are preferable. A content minimum might just lead to more fluff to weed through and put more work on the GP team to come up with quality replacement sentences. That could in turn lead to poorer analyses, since the GP checkers aren't required to have a vast knowledge of each metagame they check, even if that would also be preferable.

    One thing I've been wondering about is beginning sentences with numbers. I've always been taught to never do it, unless starting the sentence with a year. However, that grammar rule existed before EVs, I'm pretty sure. A sentence such as "252 Attack EVs ensures maximum damage output." looks acceptable enough, but I've been changing the wording to make sure the sentence does not start with a number. Can we either make an exception to this rule, since EVs are large enough and common enough in our analyses to be comparable to years, or make it clear that this is not acceptable? I've seen several checks stamped with these types of sentences, so if it's against our policy, we might need to edit some analyses on site...
  6. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    While I do agree that quality>quantity. The problem is that a number of analyses are currently missing very important content aspects. RU Qwilfish, for example, is severely lacking in description, and this was after Eradd went in and added information, yet it already has 2 GP stamps. Really? It is missing a teammate options section on every set, and it pretty much just says: these are the moves, use them.

    I don't think we should impose like a word minimum or anything, but I think there should be content mandatory in every analysis, such as teammate options.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    There already is a content minimum that NWO is alluding too, and if GP checkers find an analysis that is lacking in content, such as that they aren't including viable teammates or what have you, the GPers should request the author to add more info *before they GP check it*. If the author does not comply, then the GPers should be requesting the moderators of that tier to reassign the analysis to an author that will add such content.

    This also doesn't have much to do with Grammar Standards btw lol

    Also Jellicent, starting sentences with numbers as in EVs is completely acceptable, I don't think it's really something that needs to be explicitly standardized though.
  8. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    I really want to reiterate Zystral's point about the use of the word "since."

    I constantly find myself correcting this, even with official GPs. Using since instead of as or because is incorrect, and is such a common error that I feel it should be outlined in this thread.
  9. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Hiiii~ Sorry for the lack of GP recently. Some PokeGrammar things to iron out here...

    Comfirmed

    • Team Preview > Wi-Fi Clause
    • all clauses are capitalized (Sleep Clause, Item Clause etc)
    Clarify please?

    • status Orb > status Orb
    • Choice item > choice item
    The above are the conventions I follow but I don't see this written anywhere or something.... >.> So can someone kindly clarify this? Thanks!

    Also... What are the coined terms that are capitalized? RestTalk is, dual screens isn't. So are SubPunch etc capitalized if they consist of move names? For now, iirc those with move names are capitalized but I can't be too sure :x

    Also random terms such as Pursuiter etc, just put them as Pursuit user etc. They sound nicer this way most of the time though some such as Baton Passer and Rapid Spinner are good since they have some indication of a role. Just what I feel for this one :x

    Thoughts? Will update when I can remember (I think I left out something ._.)
  10. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Don't ever call it a status orb, use the proper item name: Toxic Orb or Flame Orb. And it's Choice item, unless you're referring to the specific item.

    RestTalk, BoltBeam, QuakeEdge, QuakeSlide, SubPunch, SubSeed, and WishPass are the capitalized ones that I know of. This is in terms of move combinations only though.

    While it is grammatically acceptable, I would like to put forward the notion that (move)er should not be used, even though Baton Passer and Rapid Spinner sound okay, I personally dislike the way they appear in writing, and so it should generally be (move) user, such as "Baton Pass user" or "Rapid Spin user".
    I suppose in the above two cases, they've been used for so long they sound like common parlance, and so some leeway can be given, but for less used examples, such as Pursuiter, I would go with "Pursuit user."
  11. sandshrewz

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    Thanks for clarifying! Regarding status Orb, some people use them collectively when they are referring to both Toxic Orb and Flame Orb. So I can't be sure if it's status Orb or status orb. Most people use the former which seems more correct too...
  12. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Normally I refer to the users as passers and spinners, no caps and without Baton or Rapid, respectively. Words like "Pursuiter" do come off as unseemly, though... (Is "trapper" okay, instead?) However, I agree; Rapid Spinner sounds worse than Rapid Spin user or spinner.

    As for status orb, I would say only use it if referring to both Toxic Orb and Flame Orb at the same time, i.e. "Toxic Orb is usually preferred, but Flame Orb is an option if you intend to stay in for over 3 turns. Which status orb you use depends on your needs." Even in that case, the word "item" works just as well, so it's usually an unnecessary term.
  13. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Hm... Some cases prefer to have both of them together :x

    For example: Once Swellow's status Orb activates, it has a 210 Base Power Facade to abuse.

    Granted you can say item here, but there are probably other cases where status Orb is preferred.
  14. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Yeah, if you can generalize as "item" or just "orb", that would be better. That I can think of, every situation where "status orb" would be used, just "orb" will work.

    As for "passer" and "spinner", that sounds very colloquial, but I personally have no opinion. Trapper I believe is a proper term for Arena Trap or Magnet Pull, so avoid that, I would say.
  15. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    In that case, I would say go with "status orb" over "status Orb"; also, "choice item" over "Choice item". Unless it is directly stating the specific item, such as Toxic Orb or Choice Scarf, the capitalization isn't required because it is not a proper noun. It's similar to saying something like "special stats" instead of "Special stats", since you aren't specifically stating "Special Attack" and "Special Defense". In a real life example, "I live on a street" or "I live on Main Street", but not "I live on a Street".

    Edit: I would say item > orb in that case, since there are other items such as Life Orb. The term "status orb" helps to distinguish Toxic Orb and Flame Orb from other items without similar effects.
  16. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    ?_? I would go with Choice item instead of choice item because choice itself is another noun while Choice would infer Choice Scarf, Band, and Specs... :x Same goes for Orb... Should it be capitalized? To me, orb is just a ball while Orb to refer to Toxic Orb and Flame Orb... So no idea here >.<
  17. V0x

    V0x 4: I used to run at the sight of sun
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    I think capitalization makes it a bit more clear that you're talking about Pokemon items here (Choice item and status Orb)

    A new player may regard "choice item" as bad grammar (although the items would be listed, there is not guarantee new players would make the connection) and be confused about what item it means. "status Orb" is a bit less like that, but IMO Orb emphasizes you are referring to the item and not a random orb

    So capitalize Choice item and status Orb, imo
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    All items that are capitalized in-game we capitalize; therefore, Choice item, status Orb, Ball (as in Poke Ball, Master Ball), etc. are capitalized no exceptions. Never capitalize "item" though, and remember that Berry is also always capitalized.

    Instead of Rapid Spinner or whatever, please use either just spinner or Rapid Spin user, Pursuit user or trapper, etc.

    WishPass refers to the combination of Wish + Baton Pass, but if you're simply passing Wishes (ie. with Audino/Chansey) then it is called "Wish passing"

    Also I might as well drop this here too: it's called Extreme Killer Arceus, not Extremekiller; when firecape, Tmon, and the Uber crew coined the term they wrote the analysis using "Extreme Killer" so that's what we'll go with.
  19. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz
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    Thanks Oglemi! :)

    Also, some more things in case I forget~

    • Is Volt-turn an accepted term? I'd just change it to 'teams with multiple Volt Switch and U-turn users'
    • base X HP or X base HP or ...?
    • X/Y/Z defenses or X / Y / Z defenses

    I think I missed something again, so I'll post something if I remember lol. Sorry, just had to clarify :x
  20. Komodo

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    1) "Teams with multiple Volt Switch and U-turn users" is acceptable
    2) [x] base HP, with the number first
    3) X / Y / Z defenses, with the spaces.

    :)
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    will be adding this to the OP cuz I've seen it everywhere:

    The company is called Game Freak, not Gamefreak or GameFreak.

    It's Flying Gem, not Flight Gem; no matter what lies PO may tell you.
  22. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    adding the following to the OP:

    The proper spelling is late-game, early-game, and mid-game. Not lategame or late game.
  23. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Hello everyone, I’m Hawkstar. I’m the guy who’s been going through pretty much every Generation 5 Pokemon analysis for every metagame for typographical errors. Thanks to the wonderful GP volunteers, my searches usually come up with only around one or two minor errors per analysis. However, the errors I do find seem to almost always fall into one of the 4 below-mentioned categories. To that end, I wish to point these out to help stop typos before they reach the site. Here are the 4 most common typos I see, in no particular order except for the em-dashes, which I do indeed see typed incorrectly the most.

    1. Em-dashes (—)

    The number one issue I’ve noticed in the analyses I read are the butchered em-dashes I see. About 80% of the analyses that have them use them correctly, but don’t type them correctly. The symbol in parenthesis is an em-dash, and many analyses don’t even use the correct symbol once. Those that do sometimes have spaces between it and the surrounding text, which is also wrong. This example, taken straight from the Smogon Spelling and Grammar Standards thread, demonstrates the proper use.

    Not:

    or:

    The alt code to type the em-dash is Alt+0151.

    2. Incomplete editing

    This one is for those users with SCMS access. Sometimes, when the name of something is removed from an analysis (usually the name of a recently banned Pokemon), it doesn’t affect anything. However, there are a few times where a Pokemon’s name is removed from an analysis, but the context of the sentence that relies on said Pokemon is not changed. For an example:

    The sentence structure here is for a list of three or more items, but there are only two. What most likely happened was that Thundurus was once a member of this list, but got removed when he got banned. This kind of mistake can be avoided by making sure whatever you’re removing isn’t being referred to by something else in the sentence, or possibly in the next sentence.

    3. Statistics

    When I first started, I began noticing a lot of the statistics in the analyses were wrong. As a rule of thumb, I always double-check any math not done by a damage calculator, unless it looks ridiculous. For example:

    Paralysis has a 25% chance of activating, while Iron Head has a 60% chance of flinching. To calculate the chance of the opponent being able to move, we multiply the decimal form of the chance that each effect has of not activating.

    .75 * .4 = .3

    That should actually be a 30% chance of Jirachi’s opponent not moving. Rather than re-calculating these stats every time, I find it easier to memorize some important chance values, such as the 37.5% chance of parafusion working, the 49% chance of Focus Blast hitting twice, and so on.

    4. Homonym confusion

    One thing I’ve been seeing recently is homonyms being used in place of each other on accident. Things such as “of” and “off” getting mixed up is making it on-site more and more. For example:

    This is a hard error to catch (especially when “of” is used correctly only two words behind the error), and for those that use spell-checkers to help them when proofreading, most automatic spell-checkers aren’t smart enough to catch that type of error.
  24. V0x

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    Actually, "--" is an accepted emdash replacement, and is slowly becoming preferred since it is generally easier to type (not having to remember the code for it, and the fact that it is readable in plain text). The hyphen with spaces is incorrect, however. The main this is to differentiate the emdash from the hyphen by making the former longer. Note: we should probably change the Standards thread to reflect that. Even though -- looks kind of ugly.

    On another note, "this Pokemon 2HKOes everything that doesn't resist it's STAB moves" and sentences along that line should start to phase out of analysis writing. They are overly generic (ie don't really add anything useful), and generally aren't left with specific examples. If for some reason you have to use something like that as an intro sentence because there is literally nothing better, at least support that statement. "...STAB moves; for example, the common OU Steel-types Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress (or whatever) take over 55% regardless of weather...." or something along those lines to give the reader something to grasp on to.
  25. sandshrewz

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    I post in this thread too much!! x.x

    VGC Terms

    • Spread moves = moves that hit both the opponent (eg Rock Slide and Heat Wave)
    • multi-target moves = moves that hit all the Pokemon on the field (eg Surf and Earthquake)
    That's what Eraddd said. Can some VGC expert please clarify as well? :x

    Ubers Terms

    • Arceus as He, he or something? Is that only used in the Overview or used consitently throughout the analysis?
    • Arceus forme or form? Everything else has forme but I see Arceus with form :/
    Cliche phrases and some minor things

    • Seeing this a lot in the Overview: Support x well etc etc etc, and it will never dissappoint. This is pretty common to me :/
    • and in Additional Comments: Entry hazard support is very helpful for this Pokemon. Entry hazard support is helpful for every Pokemon. Also, it's entry hazard without caps, and entry hazard support with singular/collective hazard. If entry hazard support should be mentioned, include users that are beneficial to the Pokemon of the analysis and not some random user. Explain why entry hazard support is useful instead of just putting it there for the sake of doing so. It'll be great if you can add that Steath Rock support or something ensures OHKOs etc on some specific Pokemon, though that's not compulsory.
    I feel like something I want to say is not there yet >.> maybe next time. Also wondering if Oglemi will post about the -type and typing thing >.> Ok that's all for now x.x sorry for the tl;dr

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