Spelling and Grammar Standards

Discussion in 'Past Generation Contributions' started by Ray Jay, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    Well, I feel that most people don't know these things R_D, which is why me and Zy brought them up. I thought this was the place to help people learn how to write better, but obviously I'm wrong. The reason I brought up the Route thing is because hardly any of the articles I've GPed have treated them as proper nouns.

    Would it be possible to start a new thread that basically just lists basic writing conventions and more advanced ones, etc. to help newer members? Unless there's one already that I'm unaware about.
  2. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    You can post grammar related help here, but the article itself is for PokeGrammar, not actual grammar that a lot of users are tragically incapable of using properly. If you want to start a thread to help people with grammar that has nothing to do with Pokemon, that's fine, but in almost all cases you're better off just linking to one of the billion other websites on the internet that do the exact same thing but better. To be frank, if you need a thread to teach people that they need to capitalize proper nouns, then it's a fool's errand.
  3. Hallow

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    I believe that also either (OH)KO as an abbreviation should be mandatory in analyses, or a mention should be made to ensure the non-capitalization and hyphenation of "knock-out" and "one-hit knock-out" as nouns, and subsequently the non-hyphenation of "to knock out" and "knocked out" as a verb and adjective, respectively. People are often confused by the abbreviation (even though the capitalization of abbreviations is a convention in the English language), so even though it's not specifically PokéGrammar (if you'll excuse my unconventional use of the accent, I just like it), it might be helpful to add it.
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    I think I note should be made that the name of the item is Air Balloon, not just Balloon.
  5. iDunno

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    Why is one not able to use the plural term "forms" instead of "formes"? The word "forme" isn't really even relevant at all seeing as it is referring to...

    Plus, "forms" is grammatically correct in itself. Is it just a Pokemon thing or something?

    Also: V-create should be added to the list of exceptions alongside U-turn for irregular hyphenated moves.

    I also think that the differences between Who and Whom should be touched upon so people don't use it incorrectly (as so many people do). I realize you want to keep this thing as "PokéGrammartastic" as possible, but, honestly, I think it is important because these analyses are pretty much based on "this kills this" and I found myself correcting it often.


    • The pronoun, who, is only used to refer to the subject performing an action (Mareep should be wary of enemy Diglett who are able to switch in on Thunderbolt and OHKO it with Earthquake.), while whom is only used to refer to the object that an action is performing upon (Use of Earthquake is mandatory on Diglett in order for it to be able to deal with enemy Mareep, whom it OHKOes.).

    Also, I would like to suggest that active voice be officially preferred over passive (except for in situations where passive voice is absolutely, positively necessary), as it is much more interesting and bearable to read and people tend to overuse passive voice when writing these formal analyses due to the fact that they believe it makes them "sound smarter".

    Oh, and you should also mention that there should be spaces in between the slashes on EV spreads.
  6. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    This is an interesting point. OHKO, 2HKO, etc. are mandatory and should be noted as such in the OP, meanwhile knock-out, to knock out, and knocked out are allowed. That second point is a standard grammar issue, so shouldn't be noted here, but the first point is a good one and should be noted in the OP.
    I think it would be more useful to instead have a PokeDictionary that lists every single item, ability, etc. with proper spelling. That would be separate to this thread, but equally as useful.
    Because God (AKA: Game Freak) said so. They chose to use the word forme, so we have followed suit. You can see it on the official Nintendo websites.
    You're right, it should be added. I'll do that.
    I agree with this, and it is a convention that Smogon's endorsed but currently isn't listed. I will add it.
    I also agree with this. I'll add it as well.
  7. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
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    Why not add BoltBeam, EdgeQuake, SubPunch, SubSplit, SubRoost, and SubSeed?
  8. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    This is one thing I've been meaning to ask for a while so I'm really glad I finally found this thread, but do we have any convention on whether or not we should abbreviate Little Cup as LC? I've been using the two interchangeably in analyses, but every time I use LC I wonder if it's grammatically correct by our standards.

    EDIT: ah ok thanks Chou :)
  9. Chou Toshio

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    Yeah, use "LC" to your heart's content. It's standard... apologies if it isn't mentioned anywhere.
  10. NixHex

    NixHex If I were gay for a day I'd go all the way ... with guys
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    We had a short discussion on IRC a few nights ago and the question of spam versus abuse game up. Can we all agree on the following definitions:
    spam - to use repeatedly and effectively
    example: "With No Guard, Machamp can spam a 100% DynamicPunch..."
    abuse - to take advantage of certain circumstances (in Pokemon, usually field effects)
    example: "Rotom-W can abuse Gravity by firing off 100% accurate STAB Hydro Pumps and Thunders..."
    Another example is "RNG abuse," which fits perfectly as you are exploiting (abusing) existing circumstances (a predictable RNG) to get perfect/shiny Pokemon, etc.
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    Does anybody have any idea if egg (as in Pokemon egg) is capitalized or not in-game or otherwise?

    I'd like to reach a consensus on that.
  12. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    I think it should be mentioned that the nature is spelled "Naive", rather than "Naïve".
  13. NixHex

    NixHex If I were gay for a day I'd go all the way ... with guys
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    Sorry for being so late on this, but the standard is Egg.
  14. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    So do we want to reach a consensus on this, or just let the people run free?

    IMO, it should either be 5th Generation or fifth generation.
  15. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    5th Generation definitely looks better
  16. Chou Toshio

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    I usually tell people to just write BW... lol
  17. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
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    I recommend calling each of the generations either "generation n" or "Generation n". So the current generation is generation 5. I would favor generation 3 over ADV, generation 2 over GSC, etc. This is especially important with the new generations, as some people call generation 4 as a whole DPP, which would suggest that it excludes changes made in HeartGold and SoulSilver. I would say generation 4, and refer to the early gen 4 metagame as DP, then DPP (or something along those lines).

    I recommend the en dash (–) with spaces. There are a few good reasons for this. First, the em dash without spaces looks like it's connecting things, when it's usually used for something aside from the main point or an interruption. The em dash with spaces takes up a lot of space ("I have something I want to — Hey! Are you listening to me?"). The en dash with spaces suffers from neither of those two drawbacks and is attested to in a variety of modern writings.

    What is the status of "they" as a third-person singular gender neutral pronoun? I favor this solution over "he / she" or similar constructs as well as a generic "he". Is there a preference between "they" and "it" for Pokemon?


    If you need to mention a short list, just use the list rather than describing the list and giving an example. Instead of

    "Players cannot use moves that have a chance of instantly KO opposing Pokémon. For example, Horn Drill is an illegal move to have on a Pokémon's move set."

    prefer

    "Players cannot use Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold."

    The second example leaves no room for confusion and is actually shorter anyway.


    What is the preference between STAB and Same Type Attack Bonus? I am in favor of STAB, as are a few people in #C&C. The abbreviation is so much more common than what it originally abbreviated that I think it's more well understood.

    Which form is preferred: 1/8 or 12.5%
  18. Banedon

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    I think our current spelling and grammar conventions tend to be rather wordy and encourage long sentences with multiple commas, which in turn makes things clunky and difficult to read (not unlike this sentence, to an extent). It may be just me, but I find a fair bit of analyses utilizing such long sentences.

    Example from my Glaceon analysis: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3456772

    This was what the original looked like:

    This is what it eventually looked like:

    I find phrases like "four shared weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, Rock and Steel" preferable to "four shared weaknesses, namely to Fire-, Fighting-, Rock- and Steel-type attacks". It's clearer to read and the meaning is unambiguous, so there should be no confusion. Other phrases like "Rock resist" is also simpler than "Rock-type resistance", and "immunity to both Fire and Fighting" is shorter than "immunities to both Fire- and Fighting-type moves".

    Just my thoughts.
  19. Honko

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    I agree, when talking about resistances and weaknesses we should be able to simply name the types without adding "-type attacks" at the end every time. Everyone understands what a "resistance to Fire" is and there's nothing grammatically incorrect about it, so enforcing the clunkier "resistance to Fire-type attacks" is silly and just makes analyses dry.

    I actually don't see a specific rule in these standards that says we're supposed to do this, but some GP checks definitely enforce it regardless. It would be great if we agreed that it's unnecessary and stopped.
  20. Omicron

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    Then again the problem with that is that every analysis currently on site uses -type whatever, meaning that it'd be really irritating to have to go in a change every one of those. Might as well just keep it the way it is for now.

    EDIT: Ok, makes sense.
  21. Honko

    Honko hit it very hard
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    We don't have to go back and change old analyses, because "resistance to Fire-type attacks" is not incorrect. But "resistance to Fire" is also correct, and there's no reason to continue forcing people to use the former when the latter is just as correct and arguably even better.

    It's like if we had been forcing everyone to say "Pokemon that block Rapid Spin" in all their analyses, and then one day we realized that "spinblockers" says the exact same thing and is often easier to read. We don't have to go back and change all the analyses written with under the old rule, because they aren't wrong, but we also shouldn't keep forcing people to change "spinblockers" to "Pokemon that block Rapid Spin" in new GP checks just because we'd done it in the past.
  22. Oglemi

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    yeah GPers shouldn't be changing "resistance to Fire" since that is correct, you're free as a writer to choose whichever.

    There are definitely analyses that I've uploaded in the recent past that are like that, so it isn't uncommon.
  23. New World Order

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    I agree completely with Honko. Something similar is the term bulky-X. I personally feel that terms such as bulky Grounds and bulky Ghosts shouldn't be changed to bulky Ground-types and bulky Ghost-types. If anything, the former is MORE correct, especially for bulky Waters. Bulky Water is a term that has been around since, like, the beginning of Smogon. I used to not know you could be selective with GP changes, and always shuddered when somebody told me to change bulky Waters to bulky Water-types.
  24. sandshrewz

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    I think it should be kept as it is... Just to aviod confusion. Plus, the additional few words doesn't take a long time to read through. For example:

    If not changed to 'immunity to Poison-type attacks', it could be misread as 'immunity to poison' (the status). Some readers may not be able to tell the difference between Poison and poison.

    Then again, about the bulky Waters thing. I support the 'bulky Water-types' convention though. The word 'Waters' does not signify the group of Water-types. Lets say, 'Starmie and Staryu are Waters'. This sounds weird as compared to: Starmie and Staryu and Water-types. Probably the reason why it is 'bulky Water-types' and not 'bulky Waters'.

    That's just my stand though. I won't trade 'fluency' for 'correctness' unless both are correct. :x so, what is the correct/better one?
  25. Oglemi

    Oglemi #bananarepublic
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    you're free as the writer to choose whichever

    I'm not going to standardize this

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