Spelling and Grammar Standards

Oglemi

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#26
Well, I feel that most people don't know these things R_D, which is why me and Zy brought them up. I thought this was the place to help people learn how to write better, but obviously I'm wrong. The reason I brought up the Route thing is because hardly any of the articles I've GPed have treated them as proper nouns.

Would it be possible to start a new thread that basically just lists basic writing conventions and more advanced ones, etc. to help newer members? Unless there's one already that I'm unaware about.
 
#27
You can post grammar related help here, but the article itself is for PokeGrammar, not actual grammar that a lot of users are tragically incapable of using properly. If you want to start a thread to help people with grammar that has nothing to do with Pokemon, that's fine, but in almost all cases you're better off just linking to one of the billion other websites on the internet that do the exact same thing but better. To be frank, if you need a thread to teach people that they need to capitalize proper nouns, then it's a fool's errand.
 
#28
I believe that also either (OH)KO as an abbreviation should be mandatory in analyses, or a mention should be made to ensure the non-capitalization and hyphenation of "knock-out" and "one-hit knock-out" as nouns, and subsequently the non-hyphenation of "to knock out" and "knocked out" as a verb and adjective, respectively. People are often confused by the abbreviation (even though the capitalization of abbreviations is a convention in the English language), so even though it's not specifically PokéGrammar (if you'll excuse my unconventional use of the accent, I just like it), it might be helpful to add it.
 
#30
Why is one not able to use the plural term "forms" instead of "formes"? The word "forme" isn't really even relevant at all seeing as it is referring to...

Dictionary said:
forme |fôrm|
noun Printing
a body of type secured in a chase for printing.
• a quantity of film arranged for making a plate.
Plus, "forms" is grammatically correct in itself. Is it just a Pokemon thing or something?

Also: V-create should be added to the list of exceptions alongside U-turn for irregular hyphenated moves.

I also think that the differences between Who and Whom should be touched upon so people don't use it incorrectly (as so many people do). I realize you want to keep this thing as "PokéGrammartastic" as possible, but, honestly, I think it is important because these analyses are pretty much based on "this kills this" and I found myself correcting it often.


  • The pronoun, who, is only used to refer to the subject performing an action (Mareep should be wary of enemy Diglett who are able to switch in on Thunderbolt and OHKO it with Earthquake.), while whom is only used to refer to the object that an action is performing upon (Use of Earthquake is mandatory on Diglett in order for it to be able to deal with enemy Mareep, whom it OHKOes.).

Also, I would like to suggest that active voice be officially preferred over passive (except for in situations where passive voice is absolutely, positively necessary), as it is much more interesting and bearable to read and people tend to overuse passive voice when writing these formal analyses due to the fact that they believe it makes them "sound smarter".

Oh, and you should also mention that there should be spaces in between the slashes on EV spreads.
 
#31
Hallow said:
I believe that also either (OH)KO as an abbreviation should be mandatory in analyses, or a mention should be made to ensure the non-capitalization and hyphenation of "knock-out" and "one-hit knock-out" as nouns, and subsequently the non-hyphenation of "to knock out" and "knocked out" as a verb and adjective, respectively. People are often confused by the abbreviation (even though the capitalization of abbreviations is a convention in the English language), so even though it's not specifically PokéGrammar (if you'll excuse my unconventional use of the accent, I just like it), it might be helpful to add it.
This is an interesting point. OHKO, 2HKO, etc. are mandatory and should be noted as such in the OP, meanwhile knock-out, to knock out, and knocked out are allowed. That second point is a standard grammar issue, so shouldn't be noted here, but the first point is a good one and should be noted in the OP.
Oglemi said:
I think I note should be made that the name of the item is Air Balloon, not just Balloon.
I think it would be more useful to instead have a PokeDictionary that lists every single item, ability, etc. with proper spelling. That would be separate to this thread, but equally as useful.
iDunno said:
Plus, "forms" is grammatically correct in itself. Is it just a Pokemon thing or something?
Because God (AKA: Game Freak) said so. They chose to use the word forme, so we have followed suit. You can see it on the official Nintendo websites.
iDunno said:
Also: V-create should be added to the list of exceptions alongside U-turn for irregular hyphenated moves.
You're right, it should be added. I'll do that.
iDunno said:
Also, I would like to suggest that active voice be officially preferred over passive (except for in situations where passive voice is absolutely, positively necessary), as it is much more interesting and bearable to read and people tend to overuse passive voice when writing these formal analyses due to the fact that they believe it makes them "sound smarter".
I agree with this, and it is a convention that Smogon's endorsed but currently isn't listed. I will add it.
iDunno said:
Oh, and you should also mention that there should be spaces in between the slashes on EV spreads.
I also agree with this. I'll add it as well.
 
#33
This is one thing I've been meaning to ask for a while so I'm really glad I finally found this thread, but do we have any convention on whether or not we should abbreviate Little Cup as LC? I've been using the two interchangeably in analyses, but every time I use LC I wonder if it's grammatically correct by our standards.

EDIT: ah ok thanks Chou :)
 

NixHex

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#35
We had a short discussion on IRC a few nights ago and the question of spam versus abuse game up. Can we all agree on the following definitions:
spam - to use repeatedly and effectively
example: "With No Guard, Machamp can spam a 100% DynamicPunch..."
abuse - to take advantage of certain circumstances (in Pokemon, usually field effects)
example: "Rotom-W can abuse Gravity by firing off 100% accurate STAB Hydro Pumps and Thunders..."
Another example is "RNG abuse," which fits perfectly as you are exploiting (abusing) existing circumstances (a predictable RNG) to get perfect/shiny Pokemon, etc.
 

Oglemi

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#36
Does anybody have any idea if egg (as in Pokemon egg) is capitalized or not in-game or otherwise?

I'd like to reach a consensus on that.
 

Oglemi

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#39
So do we want to reach a consensus on this, or just let the people run free?

I've read so many analyses and I would like to know which is the correct way to write "fifth generation". I've seen 5th generation, 5th Generation, Fifth Generation, fifth Generation and fifth generation. Once you delete my post, add the answer to the Reason (so I can actually see it, lol).
IMO, it should either be 5th Generation or fifth generation.
 

david stone

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#42
Abbreviations
  • Use RBY as an abbreviation for the Red / Blue / Yellow generation.
  • Use GSC as an abbreviation for the Gold / Silver / Crystal generation.
  • Use ADV as an abbreviation for the Advance Ruby / Sapphire / Emerald generation.
  • Use DPP as an abbreviation for the Diamond / Pearl / Platinum generation.
  • Use BW as an abbreviation for the Black / White generation.
I recommend calling each of the generations either "generation n" or "Generation n". So the current generation is generation 5. I would favor generation 3 over ADV, generation 2 over GSC, etc. This is especially important with the new generations, as some people call generation 4 as a whole DPP, which would suggest that it excludes changes made in HeartGold and SoulSilver. I would say generation 4, and refer to the early gen 4 metagame as DP, then DPP (or something along those lines).

Grammar
  • For unbracketed asides, use the em dash (—) and no spaces (Mareep—that is to say, the entire evolution family—is extremely cute.).
I recommend the en dash (–) with spaces. There are a few good reasons for this. First, the em dash without spaces looks like it's connecting things, when it's usually used for something aside from the main point or an interruption. The em dash with spaces takes up a lot of space ("I have something I want to — Hey! Are you listening to me?"). The en dash with spaces suffers from neither of those two drawbacks and is attested to in a variety of modern writings.

  • You may use the pronoun "who" instead of "which" or "that" and use "he" or "she" to refer to Pokemon as people if you so desire. It must be consistent for the entire article or analysis if this is done, however.
What is the status of "they" as a third-person singular gender neutral pronoun? I favor this solution over "he / she" or similar constructs as well as a generic "he". Is there a preference between "they" and "it" for Pokemon?


If you need to mention a short list, just use the list rather than describing the list and giving an example. Instead of

"Players cannot use moves that have a chance of instantly KO opposing Pokémon. For example, Horn Drill is an illegal move to have on a Pokémon's move set."

prefer

"Players cannot use Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold."

The second example leaves no room for confusion and is actually shorter anyway.


What is the preference between STAB and Same Type Attack Bonus? I am in favor of STAB, as are a few people in #C&C. The abbreviation is so much more common than what it originally abbreviated that I think it's more well understood.

Which form is preferred: 1/8 or 12.5%
 
#43
I think our current spelling and grammar conventions tend to be rather wordy and encourage long sentences with multiple commas, which in turn makes things clunky and difficult to read (not unlike this sentence, to an extent). It may be just me, but I find a fair bit of analyses utilizing such long sentences.

Example from my Glaceon analysis: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3456772

This was what the original looked like:

<p>It goes without saying that Glaceon must have Snow Warning support, which in UU means Abomasnow. This unfortunately leaves four shared weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, Rock and Steel. Having Pokemon that can absorb these attacking types is vital. Slowbro can shrug off most Fighting and Rock moves, as well as Flare Blitz from the likes of Arcanine and Darmanitan. Nidoqueen resists Fighting and Rock, and can set up Stealth Rock to aid Glaceon’s sweep. It also absorbs Toxic Spikes, an entry hazard that Glaceon is vulnerable to. Flash Fire Chandelure is another option, sporting immunity to both Fire and Fighting, although it brings along yet another weakness to Rock. Glaceon is vulnerable to Stealth Rock in spite of Ice Body, so Rapid Spin support is appreciated. Cyrogonal can fire off Blizzards of its own while spinning away Stealth Rock, while Hitmontop is another worthy choice, bringing a valuable Rock resist to the table. Xatu also gets a mention, as it is the only Pokemon in UU that gets Magic Bounce and so stops Stealth Rock from going up in the first place.</p>
This is what it eventually looked like:

<p>It goes without saying that Glaceon must have Snow Warning support, which in UU means Abomasnow. This unfortunately mandates four shared weaknesses, namely to Fire-, Fighting-, Rock- and Steel-type attacks. Having Pokemon that can absorb these attacking types is vital. Slowbro can shrug off most Fighting- and Rock- moves, as well as Flare Blitz from the likes of Arcanine and Darmanitan. Nidoqueen resists Fighting- and Rock-type attacks, and can set up Stealth Rock to aid Glaceon's sweep. It also absorbs Toxic Spikes, an entry hazard that Glaceon is vulnerable to. Flash Fire Chandelure is another option, courtesy of its immunities to both Fire- and Fighting-type moves, although it introduces yet another weakness to Rock. Glaceon is vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so Rapid Spin support is appreciated. Cyrogonal can fire off Blizzards of its own while spinning away Stealth Rock, while Hitmontop is another worthy choice for its Rock-type resistance. Xatu also gets a mention, as it is the only Pokemon in UU that gets Magic Bounce and so stop Stealth Rock from going up in the first place.</p>
I find phrases like "four shared weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, Rock and Steel" preferable to "four shared weaknesses, namely to Fire-, Fighting-, Rock- and Steel-type attacks". It's clearer to read and the meaning is unambiguous, so there should be no confusion. Other phrases like "Rock resist" is also simpler than "Rock-type resistance", and "immunity to both Fire and Fighting" is shorter than "immunities to both Fire- and Fighting-type moves".

Just my thoughts.
 

Honko

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#44
I agree, when talking about resistances and weaknesses we should be able to simply name the types without adding "-type attacks" at the end every time. Everyone understands what a "resistance to Fire" is and there's nothing grammatically incorrect about it, so enforcing the clunkier "resistance to Fire-type attacks" is silly and just makes analyses dry.

I actually don't see a specific rule in these standards that says we're supposed to do this, but some GP checks definitely enforce it regardless. It would be great if we agreed that it's unnecessary and stopped.
 
#45
Then again the problem with that is that every analysis currently on site uses -type whatever, meaning that it'd be really irritating to have to go in a change every one of those. Might as well just keep it the way it is for now.

EDIT: Ok, makes sense.
 

Honko

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#46
We don't have to go back and change old analyses, because "resistance to Fire-type attacks" is not incorrect. But "resistance to Fire" is also correct, and there's no reason to continue forcing people to use the former when the latter is just as correct and arguably even better.

It's like if we had been forcing everyone to say "Pokemon that block Rapid Spin" in all their analyses, and then one day we realized that "spinblockers" says the exact same thing and is often easier to read. We don't have to go back and change all the analyses written with under the old rule, because they aren't wrong, but we also shouldn't keep forcing people to change "spinblockers" to "Pokemon that block Rapid Spin" in new GP checks just because we'd done it in the past.
 

Oglemi

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#47
yeah GPers shouldn't be changing "resistance to Fire" since that is correct, you're free as a writer to choose whichever.

There are definitely analyses that I've uploaded in the recent past that are like that, so it isn't uncommon.
 
#48
I agree completely with Honko. Something similar is the term bulky-X. I personally feel that terms such as bulky Grounds and bulky Ghosts shouldn't be changed to bulky Ground-types and bulky Ghost-types. If anything, the former is MORE correct, especially for bulky Waters. Bulky Water is a term that has been around since, like, the beginning of Smogon. I used to not know you could be selective with GP changes, and always shuddered when somebody told me to change bulky Waters to bulky Water-types.
 
#49
I think it should be kept as it is... Just to aviod confusion. Plus, the additional few words doesn't take a long time to read through. For example:

immunity to Poison
If not changed to 'immunity to Poison-type attacks', it could be misread as 'immunity to poison' (the status). Some readers may not be able to tell the difference between Poison and poison.

Then again, about the bulky Waters thing. I support the 'bulky Water-types' convention though. The word 'Waters' does not signify the group of Water-types. Lets say, 'Starmie and Staryu are Waters'. This sounds weird as compared to: Starmie and Staryu and Water-types. Probably the reason why it is 'bulky Water-types' and not 'bulky Waters'.

That's just my stand though. I won't trade 'fluency' for 'correctness' unless both are correct. :x so, what is the correct/better one?