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STABmons Doubles [Water Spout and Eruption now banned]

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by TheBurgerKing99, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    610
    Approved by Arcticblast (and Eevee General)

    You've heard of STABmons. You've heard of Doubles. But now it is time for STABmons doubles! Cheesy intro aside, it's basically STABmons except doubles, with a couple of other small changes. For one thing, the move dark void is banned, just as in standard doubles. Another change is that, until further notice, along with the STABmons banlist, the pokemon Shaymin Sky is unbanned.

    If you don't know what STABmons is, visit Eevee General's thread here

    Edit: Thank you to Oiawesome for putting this on his server here:

    Clauses~Standard Doubles banlist**
    ~Sleep
    ~Water Spout and Eruption are banned
    ~Species
    ~Evasion
    ~Moody
    ~OHKO
    ~Sketch banned outside of Smeargle
    ~**Some Ubers allowed (Everything in ubers with 600 bst or lower, except blaziken, and the two offensive deoxys forms).


    Sets (open)


    Forretress (open)


    Set by Leafshield

    Forretress @ Leftovers / Occa Berry / Mental Herb / Lum Berry / I haven't decided on the optimal item bear with me
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef :: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
    Relaxed Nature / Sassy Nature
    - Rage Powder
    - Heal Order
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect

    I personally was really interested to see everyone else's opinions on how well Forretress is going to be able to abuse Rage Powder, a move that works extremely well with Forry's slew of resistances. With newfound recovery in Heal Order, Forretress can direct multiple different types of attacks, particularly ESpeeds, to himself while the opponent can set up. It's Fire-type weakness can be fixed via Drizzle support, and the lower of its defenses (i.e. the defense you did not invest in), can be covered with the rest of your teammates. You can even deviate from the given EVs and take neutral hits from both sides!


    Braviary (open)


    Set by The Reptile/DreMZ

    Braviary (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 240 HP / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Acrobatics
    - Nature Power / Superpower / Tailwind / Fake Out
    - Protect / Roost / Tailwind

    The set is fairly simple, as are the EVs. 16 Speed EVs are used to outspeed base 100's at -1 and no investment Chandelure, while the rest is dumped into HP for more bulk, as Braviary has decent bulk and is going to hit shit with ESpeed more often then not anyways. Max/Max+ is also an option if you really want to outspeed Modest Chandelure and speed tie with Timid Chandelure. I focus more on Chandelure since it is the fastest Ghost in its speed tier that I can think of. ExtremeSpeed is the main reason this thing is being considered over Thundurus-I and, to a lesser extent, Bisharp as a Defiant user, as it gives it +2 priority with decent power, hitting 120 BP after STAB. Acro + Flying Gem is a fairly well known combo, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used here. Nature Power lets Braviary hit Steel-types SE without the nasty drops that Superpower gives. It also wrecks Heatran. Superpower is listed as an option if Superpower is a big deal, as it can take a +1 EQ and KO back. It also deals with Steel-types like Nature Power, at the cost of attack and defense. Protect is a staple of Doubles, so it makes sense for it to be here. Roost is another option, as it plays off Braviary's decent bulk. Tailwind should only be used on a faster spread, as it allowed Braviary to reach high speeds while supporting its teammates. It's not the most practical option, but it's there if you want to use it.


    Latios (open)


    Set by The Reptile/DreMZ

    Latios (M) @ Dragon Gem / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Power Swap
    - Psystrike
    - Protect / Skill Swap / Tailwind / Roost

    I prefer Latias for sets like this, but Latios seems to be the poster boy for LatiOffense, so I'll post with him instead. This set is fairly simple. Click Draco Meteor and kill something, and then Power Swap -2 SpA to something else while you sit at +0 again, ready to fire another Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor and Power Swap are the core of this gimmicky set, allowing you to fire multiple Draco Meteors without having to switch out. Psystrike is a strong STAB that lets you bypass more specially-defensive pokemon. It also hits fairly strong, allowing you to not have to Draco, thus saving a turn you would of used using Power Swap. Protect is, again, a pretty great filler and staple of Doubles. Skill Swap can be used to give something Levitate, while Tailwind makes your team faster for a short while, giving decent team support. Finally, Roost lets you live longer. If you use Roost, Life Orb becomes a pretty appealing item choice. Dragon Gem is standard item for Latios, however, so I don't see a reason to change that.


    Scrafty (open)


    Set by The Reptile/DreMZ

    Scrafty @ Expert Belt / Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch / Sucker Punch
    - Fake Out / Ice Punch
    - Detect / Ice Punch

    Scrafty is a nifty Intimdate user since it can hit Cress SE with STAB Crunch unlike Hitmontop. 20 Speed EVs are used to outspeed no investment Abomasnow and nothing else, since Scrafties Speed Tier is kind of shit. The rest goes in to power and HP. Now that Scrafty has Close Combat, it has similar power Hitmontop. CC is the main STAB, as it hits hard for not too much cost. Crunch is secondary STAB that hits Ghost- and Psychic-types SE. Sucker Punch can be used over Crunch for Priority, but Crunch is more reliable. Fake Out is a neat support move that it gets. Last choice is between Detect and Ice Punch. Detect is there for the same reason a lot of mons use Protect. Meanwhile, Ice Punch lets you nab Lando-T and Dragon-types SE. Now the item choice might seem weird at first, but the reason why I chose EBelt first is because it lets Scraft achieve 2HKO's with Crunch that it couldn't before, while still boosting SE Close Combats (which is helpful against TTar, since it has a 50% chance to OHKO with EBelt through Chople). And, unlike Gems, it's not one-time use, so it's a bit more constant. Of course, Fighting Gem is obviously still an option for the same reasons why Hitmontop uses it. Calc time!
    Code:
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 360-425 (89.1 - 105.19%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 300-354 (74.25 - 87.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 14 Def Cresselia: 226-269 (50.9 - 60.58%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 14 Def Cresselia: 188-224 (42.34 - 50.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 370-439 (91.58 - 108.66%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Fighting Gem Scrafty Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 462-546 (114.35 - 135.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    -1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 245-293 (76.8 - 91.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    -1 252+ Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 204-244 (63.94 - 76.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 350-418 (97.76 - 116.75%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 292-348 (81.56 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.64%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 324-382 (107.64 - 126.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    So yeah, I think Expert Belt is the best item for Scrafty to use, although I can see why Fighting Gem could be desirable. Dark Gem could be an option on a Sucker Punch set, but I think it's inferior to both these items. Sitrus Berry could be used on a more defensive set.



    Emboar (open)


    Set by Magical Magmortar

    Emboar @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Reckless
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - V-create
    - Mach Punch
    - Hammer Arm
    - Protect

    This in TR can straight up destroy. V-create is a nuke while also lowering your speed. Mach Punch is priority and Hammer Arm lowers speed and protect is for scouting! Anyway, Skill Swap Cresselia seems great. Levitate Heatran? Check. Volt Absorb/Motor Drive Gyarados? Why not. And of course, Regenerator Cresselia sounds like a pain to face. Anyway, I would totally be up for a game or something ;).

    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  2. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    216
    With Rage Powder and Heal Order Shuckle becomes a great supporter in Doubles. Power Split and Helping Hand are also at it's disposal.

    ExtremeSpeed and Fake Out for everyone.

    Also certain Water Spouters could cause quite some harm (and to a lesser extent Eruption), but the abundancy of priority might balance it out.

    Metagross and Bisharp stand out as well as they give zero fucks about Intimidate, they resist Fake Out/Extremespeed and can have fun with Shift Gear.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  3. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    610
    I can also see braviary making an impact with fake out, extreme speed, defiant, and tailwind. Another big pokemon could be landorus-t, with access to intimidate, insanely strong STAB EQ, tailwind, and brave bird, it can be of aid to any kind of team.
  4. Leafshield

    Leafshield

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    We talked about it a bit on Joim's Lab, and I'm really interested in this bad boy:

    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Leftovers / Occa Berry / Mental Herb / Lum Berry / I haven't decided on the optimal item bear with me
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef :: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
    Relaxed Nature / Sassy Nature
    - Rage Powder
    - Heal Order
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect

    I personally was really interested to see everyone else's opinions on how well Forretress is going to be able to abuse Rage Powder, a move that works extremely well with Forry's slew of resistances. With newfound recovery in Heal Order, Forretress can direct multiple different types of attacks, particularly ESpeeds, to himself while the opponent can set up. It's Fire-type weakness can be fixed via Drizzle support, and the lower of its defenses (i.e. the defense you did not invest in), can be covered with the rest of your teammates. You can even deviate from the given EVs and take neutral hits from both sides!
    The Reptile likes this.
  5. The Reptile

    The Reptile we're all skeletons on the inside
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,283
    Stolen and heavily edited from STABmons OP.

    Types'n'Stuff (open)


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    Sadly they don't get Dark Void anymore, however, they all get Taunt and to a lesser extent, Quash and Embargo. Not much else to say here, since they weren't given too much outside of better STAB.


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    Tailwind has more users now that all Flying-types get it. Not much else is notable for doubles though, outside of better STABs. Hurricane could be fun on Rain Teams.


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    Just like in Singles STABmons, Normal-type is a godsend. Fake Out is even better here than it is in Singles, and all Normal-types get a spread move in Earthquake (through Nature Power). Outside of all the useful tools that we all know and love, there are also some other fun things you can do in Doubles that are silly in Singles. After You is a very strong move on a fast Normal-type, allowing slow but strong hitters to dish out attacks faster. Entrainment is very similar to Skill Swap that Psychic-types get. Follow Me is very good for supporting teammates. Helping Hand is also very good, boosting strong attacks into insane levels of power. Simple Beam could cause some crazy situations, but is otherwise somewhat situational.


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    While not getting much just like in STABmons singles, they do get access to Quick Guard, which is pretty useful, especially considering ExtremeSpeed is on every Normal-type in the game. They also get Detect, which is better than Protect because of Impression. Doesn't change too much though, other than more variety in STABs


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    Eruption and Heat Wave are notable for being spread moves, but just like Fighting-type, they don't get much outside of really good STAB moves.


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    ...pretty much get jack-shit, considering most Ground-types have EQ anyways and hazards aren't that great. I guess Bonemerang can be used if you want a single-target Ground-type move though.


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    Spore is just as notable here as it is in Singles, probably more so due to no Sleep Clause. If there was a Grass-type that didn't get Leech Seed, it gets it now. Outside of better STAB, not much else was gained.


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    Rage Powder is pretty great, but outside of that not much else that isn't covered by Single STABmons.


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    They don't get anything cool that they can use in Doubles outside of what already usable in Singles.


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    Unlike in Singles STABmons, Psychic-types can better use the moves that are given to them. Aside from Psystrike, they also get access to Skill Swap, Trick Room, Gravity, Imprison, along with some more fun options such as the Guard/Power moves and Heart Swap. Magic Coat could also be fun to use.


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    Water Spout is even more notable here because it is a spread move. Muddy Water is also notable for not hurting your own pokemon. Not much else though.


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    Much like Ground-types, except with more STABs physically.


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    Spacial Rend and DD, not much else.


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    Destiny Bond is the only thing I can think of. Shadow Force could be neat though, but idk


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    They all get Glaciate, which is a slightly stronger Icy Wind. Other than that, not much else.


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    Wide Guard is the only notable move here I guess. Other than that, pretty much like Ground.


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    Gastro Acid and Coil are the only neat things I can think of that are cool for Poisons.



    Lets see how some of the more "classic" Doubles Pokemon fare in the metagame

    Thundurus-I
    Oh boy, did Thundurus get some new toys. First of all, it has access to Prankster Tailwind to add to it's list of toys. Not only that, but it also gets Hurricane and Aeroblast, completely outclassing Tornadus-I in that regard (Torn-I still has his old Defiant set though, but a specially offensive set should be left to Thundy-I). On the bulky set I'd imagine it could replace HP Ice with Tailwind, or at the very least replace the option of HP for Air Slash / Aeroblast, depending if you want power or flinchhax (especially with para involved, oh lord Thundy-I looks annoying).

    Hitmontop
    Hitmontop got pretty much nothing except for Drain Punch (but Tops wants CC for the extra power). However, Hitmontop is going to be very useful for the Normal-types that think they can walk around the place like they own it thanks to Intimidate and it's Fighting STAB.

    Cresselia
    Cresselia can try some fun things, but it's more or less the same thing. It does get stronger STAB in Psystrike, and it can play around with the more fun moves Psychics get. It gets Imprison, which is useful for anti-TR shenanigans. It's still going to be as useful as ever.

    I've missed a lot, but that's all I can come up with right now.

    Meanwhile, we have some threats such as
    Ludicolo / Kingdra
    This can be pretty much all Swift Swimmers with decent Special Attack, but I chose these two. Both of these guys get Water Spout, which is powerful as fuck despite their somewhat average Special Attack thanks to high BP and Rain. Kingdra gets Spacial Rend and not much else, but Ludicolo is glorious. Not only does it get a fast-as-fuck Spore thanks to rain, but it also gets Seed Flare, which is extremely powerful STAB. Not only that, but Ludicolo can run Muddy Water over Surf now when it's HP gets low so it doesn't hurt it's teammates. They are kept in check, however, by the fact that all Normal-types have ESpeed now, weakening their Water Spouts.

    Excadrill
    Excadrill doesn't get much outside of a stronger Steel STAB (Meteor Mash or Gear Grind), but it does have a huge advantage - it resists ESpeed. This is pretty big for a Weather Sweeper, since Fake Out + ESpeed could end up doing a lot of damage if it weren't for it's resist. EQ still wrecks shit, and Meteor Mash can give it bonus attack. Overall, pretty solid.

    Stoutland
    Stoutland has decent bulk, good attack, and great speed in Sand, allowing it to act as either a powerful Normal-type for Sand or as a fast supporter. It could use its good speed to help its teammates with After You, allowing anything you have with you to use an attack at the speed of Stoutland. Of course, this does take a move, giving you one move, but it could still work. Alternatively, it can work outside of Sand as an Intimidate user, although it might be outclassed by Granbull in that respect. Dog looks like it could be pretty cool, but we'll have to wait and see.

    and a lot more

    Overall, this looks pretty fun, especially if you play Doubles (I play it a little bit).

    EDIT:

    Rage Powder Forretress is pretty neat, especially in Rain. Another move that Forretress gets that could be neat is U-Turn. While U-Turn isn't as good in Doubles as it is in Singles, it still gives you momentum, especially when you have a slow-turn such as Forretress. I would put it as a secondary slash right next to either Heal Order or Gyro Ball. Also, no mention of Sitrus Berry makes me sad :[
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
    TheBurgerKing99 likes this.
  6. Magical Magmortar

    Magical Magmortar

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    175
    This sounds really cool! Lots of Muddy waters, Rage Powders/Follow Mes, and all Normal type Fake Outs and Extremespeed! And Tailwind Prankster Thundurus will rule over this metagame. And Wide Guard Rhyperior in Trick Room sounds dangerous. And this:

    Emboar @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Reckless
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - V-create
    - Mach Punch
    - Hammer Arm
    - Protect

    This in TR can straight up destroy. V-create is a nuke while also lowering your speed. Mach Punch is priority and Hammer Arm lowers speed and protect is for scouting! Anyway, Skill Swap Cresselia seems great. Levitate Heatran? Check. Volt Absorb/Motor Drive Gyarados? Why not. And of course, Regenerator Cresselia sounds like a pain to face. Anyway, I would totally be up for a game or something ;).
  7. Leafshield

    Leafshield

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Yeah, U-turn looks like it could really work, and a slow one would help a shit ton in the fast paced, prediction laden world of Doubles. And yeah, sorry for no mention of Sitrus Berry, but like I said, I was just looking for item ideas, and it didn't cross my mind :[
  8. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    895
    Yeah, this should be interesting.

    First off, imma disagree on Shuckle's supporting abilities, and to a lesser extent, Forretress. While they can be fairly annoying, they are going to have a lot of trouble with Taunt, particularly Thundurus-I, who just happens to have Roost now (everyone take cover), as well as Aeroblast. To make matter even more crazy, Defiant Thundurus is now usuable, with Bolt Strike and Flying Gem Acrobatics to play with. And in additional Tailwind access, and Thundurus is still a top tier threat. With all sorts of new pokemon getting Tailwind and Trick Room, my guess is Taunt, especially with a Prankster boost, is going to be all over the place. I'll just pitch a bunch of sets, partially out of boredom:

    Theoretical Threats (open)

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry / Flying Gem / Electric Gem
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Aeroblast / Thunder Wave / Tailwind
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave / Tailwind
    - Taunt / Tailwind
    - Thunder Wave / Roost

    The spread makes it a bulky attacker, with access to Prankster Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Roost to further its already impressive abilities. Whether it is putting a stop to Rage Powder, Trick Room, or Tailwind, this thing is your man.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Bolt Strike
    - Acrobatics
    - Taunt / Thunder Wave / Tailwind
    - Protect

    Assuming Intimidate will still be a prevalent ability, Defiant Thundurus would be a great way to keep things like Hitmontop and Landorus-Therian at bay, as an Intimidate will essentially bring it to +1, where its attacks will be very potent.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Bug Gem / Life Orb / Occa Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Gear Grind
    - Bug Bite
    - Rage Powder / Swords Dance
    - Protect

    With Rage Powder and Gear Grind under its belt, Scizor is now a great choice for a Trick Room team, whether it is sweeping, or assisting in getting Trick Room up with Rage Powder.

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    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry / Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch / Sucker Punch
    - Rock Slide
    - Low Kick / Taunt
    - Protect / Wide Guard

    Tyranitar can bring in more support to the table now, with STAB priority and Wide Guard under its belt. It also doesn't really mind EQ as much now.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Wacan Berry / Charti Berry / Water Gem / Flying Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: ??? (Either 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD or 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird / Acrobatics
    - Crabhammer / Aqua Jet
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    With new Flying STAB, Tailwind access, and Aqua Jet, Gyarados is certainly not one to drop off the list. Intimidate support is cool too, though it may not go over so well depending on how popular Defiantmons get.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Water Gem / Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Water Spout / Muddy Water
    - Aura Sphere
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Protect

    It still has a shallow movepool, but with Water Spout or Muddy Water, it is going to be a pain to deal with, though I'm guessing Swift Swim sweepers like Kingdra will be better, since the Standard Doubles banlist doesn't include Drizzle + Swift Swim.

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Ice Gem
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Dual Chop / Dragon Claw
    - Avalanche / Icicle Crash / Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Shard / Fusion Bolt
    - Protect

    Yes, a STAB Ice Shard off of a 170 base attack is going to hurt. Moving on.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Flying Gem / Yache Berry / Focus Sash
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics / Brave Bird
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide / U-turn / Tailwind
    - Protect

    TheBurgerKing99 covered this one already, not much to add.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @ Occa Berry / Steel Gem / Shuca Berry / Mental Herb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Brave Nature
    - Gyro Ball / Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake / Zen Headbutt
    - Bullet Punch / Trick Room
    - Protect / Trick Room

    Trick Room, all Metagross could ever wish for, and it got it. Nuff said.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Muddy Water

    A very potent Trick Room sweeper (we do have a lot of those now). It also benefits in having only one weakness, and great STABs.

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash / Gear Grind
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide / X-scissor / Substitute
    - Protect

    Mostly the same as before, it has a lot of new STAB options, though.

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Water Gem / Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout / Muddy Water
    - Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    A really, really, scary looking Rain sweeper. This is the reason we run priority attacks in Doubles.

    (There are about 500 other things, but I think I've made this list long enough)
  9. Leafshield

    Leafshield

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    354
    Another one I just remembered seeing being talked about was this one:

    [​IMG]

    Ludicolo @ Water Gem / Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
    - Water Spout
    - Spore
    - Seed Flare / Giga Drain
    - Muddy Water / Fake Out / Substitute

    This set just looks plain ridiculous. Being one of the absolute fastest Pokemon in the game under Rain, Ludicolo makes a very capable Spore user. Access to Fake Out, and the newly found STABs in Water Spout and Seed Flare make him more effective than ever. Water Spout and Spore are obvious: raw power and OP cheap Spore shit while being blazingly fast is always nice. Seed Flare can be used, but I imaging Giga Drain is gona see a lot so you can stay at max HP so Water Spouts are still really strong. Muddy Water is the main slash due to being a reliable STAB when you are at low health. Fake Out and Sub can see use, though. Fake Out offers free turns while Substitute can allow you to avoid Prankster Spore after you eat up your Lum Berry.
  10. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    391
    Searing Shot should be an option over Heat Wave for the 100% accuracy as long as you have a partner with protect/flash fire/telepathy etc. Same amount of power as Heat Wave, perfect accuracy, and a 30% burn chance as opposed to 10% makes up for the loss in PP, and unlike Eruption you don't need constant healing. Plus Doubles matches are shorter than normal and PP likely won't matter anyway.

    Edit: Glaciate is a slightly improved option over Icy Wind as well, for Ice mons only. Slow mons like Abomasnow and Glaceon can make use of it.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  11. The Reptile

    The Reptile we're all skeletons on the inside
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Speaking of Defiant, an interesting user is Braviary due to its access to ExtremeSpeed and it's good base 123 attack, making it the strongest Defiant user, and ESpeed makes up for it being the slowest. The set I came up (loose term, its a set I made in a couple of minutes) with is the following

    [​IMG]
    Braviary (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 240 HP / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Acrobatics
    - Nature Power / Superpower / Tailwind / Fake Out
    - Protect / Roost / Tailwind / Fake Out

    The set is fairly simple, as are the EVs. 16 Speed EVs are used to outspeed base 100's at -1 and no investment Chandelure, while the rest is dumped into HP for more bulk, as Braviary has decent bulk and is going to hit shit with ESpeed more often then not anyways. Max/Max+ is also an option if you really want to outspeed Modest Chandelure and speed tie with Timid Chandelure. I focus more on Chandelure since it is the fastest Ghost in its speed tier that I can think of. ExtremeSpeed is the main reason this thing is being considered over Thundurus-I and, to a lesser extent, Bisharp as a Defiant user, as it gives it +2 priority with decent power, hitting 120 BP after STAB. Acro + Flying Gem is a fairly well known combo, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used here. Nature Power lets Braviary hit Steel-types SE without the nasty drops that Superpower gives. It also wrecks Heatran. Superpower is listed as an option if Superpower is a big deal, as it can take a +1 EQ and KO back. It also deals with Steel-types like Nature Power, at the cost of attack and defense. Protect is a staple of Doubles, so it makes sense for it to be here. Roost is another option, as it plays off Braviary's decent bulk. Tailwind should only be used on a faster spread, as it allowed Braviary to reach high speeds while supporting its teammates. It's not the most practical option, but it's there if you want to use it. Finally, Fake Out is an option to flinch opponents and get damage. Fake Out + ESpeed is the best way to deal with SS Water Spout / Scarf Eruption, so that's definitely an option.

    This next set is more gimmicky than anything, but here it is. Power Swap Lati@s


    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Dragon Gem / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Power Swap
    - Psystrike
    - Protect / Skill Swap / Tailwind / Roost

    I prefer Latias for sets like this, but Latios seems to be the poster boy for LatiOffense, so I'll post with him instead. This set is fairly simple. Click Draco Meteor and kill something, and then Power Swap -2 SpA to something else while you sit at +0 again, ready to fire another Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor and Power Swap are the core of this gimmicky set, allowing you to fire multiple Draco Meteors without having to switch out. Psystrike is a strong STAB that lets you bypass more specially-defensive pokemon. It also hits fairly strong, allowing you to not have to Draco, thus saving a turn you would of used using Power Swap. Protect is, again, a pretty great filler and staple of Doubles. Skill Swap can be used to give something Levitate, while Tailwind makes your team faster for a short while, giving decent team support. Finally, Roost lets you live longer. If you use Roost, Life Orb becomes a pretty appealing item choice. Dragon Gem is standard item for Latios, however, so I don't see a reason to change that.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  12. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Scrafty could be the new Hitmontop, now packing Mach Punch and CC, the two moves it needed. It also has better bulk and Fake Out, which is nice.

    Also, I'm talking with BK about banning drizzleswim, because all abusers get Water Spout, which is deadly in Doubles.
  13. Sewa

    Sewa

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    Transform Blissey on Shuckle. GG.
    Why shouldn't Dark-type Pokémon keep Dark Void? It's not banned since we have sleep clause: only one of the opponents will be put to sleep.

    Thundurus and Tornadus will be everywhere to try and stop those prankster Spore/Dark Void.
    Thundurus will even be omnipresent in GoodStuff with T-Wave and now Tailwind to fuck up with weather sweepers. (unless Drizzleswim gets banned)

    Despite lacking strong STAB Close Combat and Wide Guard, Stoutland can now be a good Intimidate user with Fake Out, E-speed and overall better bulk than Hitmontop. But maybe Scrafty still outclasses it considering the chance to hit Cresselia supereffectively, which, between all the things, gets Heal Pulse to keep teammates healty and provoke even more headaches.
    Rain abusers get Muddy Water so that you don't always have to protect or rely on water absorb/storm drain pokes, which usually compound weaknesses.
    Sableye gets priority Quash to make speedy threats more manageable.
  14. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    Yeah, I could see that happening. The main thing is, I don't like banning stuff without testing it first, and this is no exception. If it turns out to be too powerful though, I might consider an early ban.

    Edit: Nollan, if you put a bit more detail in the sets you posted, they can go on the original post, but right now, they don't have enough information on them.

    Edit 2: Reptile/Dre, why don't you consider having fake out on that braviary, since it will usually be used turn one? I can see fake out having a lot of utility on it.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  15. The Reptile

    The Reptile we're all skeletons on the inside
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Because I made the set at like 12 in the morning and didn't think about Fake Out :p Added it to my post.
    TheBurgerKing99 likes this.
  16. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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  17. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    I should have taken out that thundurus on the third turn with exe. If I did that, I might have won.
  18. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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  19. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    dude i called it
  20. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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    I got this programmed on my server: http://othermetas.no-ip.biz thanks to nollan for enabling the STABmons tools.js mod to work on STAB doubles which I couldn't do because I have a lot of shit to do lmao.
  21. The Reptile

    The Reptile we're all skeletons on the inside
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    So Scrafty is pretty cool as an intimdate user.

    [​IMG]
    Scrafty @ Expert Belt / Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch / Sucker Punch
    - Fake Out / Ice Punch
    - Detect / Ice Punch

    Scrafty is a nifty Intimdate user since it can hit Cress SE with STAB Crunch unlike Hitmontop. 20 Speed EVs are used to outspeed no investment Abomasnow and nothing else, since Scrafties Speed Tier is kind of shit. The rest goes in to power and HP. Now that Scrafty has Close Combat, it has similar power Hitmontop. CC is the main STAB, as it hits hard for not too much cost. Crunch is secondary STAB that hits Ghost- and Psychic-types SE. Sucker Punch can be used over Crunch for Priority, but Crunch is more reliable. Fake Out is a neat support move that it gets. Last choice is between Detect and Ice Punch. Detect is there for the same reason a lot of mons use Protect. Meanwhile, Ice Punch lets you nab Lando-T and Dragon-types SE. Now the item choice might seem weird at first, but the reason why I chose EBelt first is because it lets Scraft achieve 2HKO's with Crunch that it couldn't before, while still boosting SE Close Combats (which is helpful against TTar, since it has a 50% chance to OHKO with EBelt through Chople). And, unlike Gems, it's not one-time use, so it's a bit more constant. Of course, Fighting Gem is obviously still an option for the same reasons why Hitmontop uses it. Calc time!
    Code:
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 360-425 (89.1 - 105.19%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 300-354 (74.25 - 87.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 14 Def Cresselia: 226-269 (50.9 - 60.58%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Crunch vs. 252 HP / 14 Def Cresselia: 188-224 (42.34 - 50.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 370-439 (91.58 - 108.66%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Fighting Gem Scrafty Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 462-546 (114.35 - 135.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    -1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 245-293 (76.8 - 91.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    -1 252+ Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 204-244 (63.94 - 76.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 350-418 (97.76 - 116.75%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 292-348 (81.56 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Scrafty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.64%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Scrafty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 324-382 (107.64 - 126.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    
    
    So yeah, I think Expert Belt is the best item for Scrafty to use, although I can see why Fighting Gem could be desirable. Dark Gem could be an option on a Sucker Punch set, but I think it's inferior to both these items. Sitrus Berry could be used on a more defensive set.
  22. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    Nice thinking on detect. Could have niche usage against imprison cress. Will be added to OP.

    Edit: I'm surprised no one has mentioned chansey. Not only does it still get the stuff it gets in normal STABmons, it also gets a ton of stuff that's useful in doubles, including but (probably) not limited to, follow me, fake out, and a huge buff to transform (being able to choose from 3 pokemon in stead of one.)

    Edit 2:
    I made a team that makes use of that chansey, and it's capable of doing a lot of work as this battle shows.
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/joimslab-doublescustomgame-1610
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  23. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Phantom of the Oprah
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
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    When tandem Scrappy Explosion takes off you all will thank me later.
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  24. TheBurgerKing99

    TheBurgerKing99

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    Rain is now banned. And I don't want people arguing over whether it was broken or not. Banning it allows for some other interesting stuff to take place, and if you really want to try it with rain. Just try it with rain, nothing I can do to stop you. So just try to have fun, okay? With or without rain.
  25. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast have one on me
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
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    I can't believe I'm doing this, but banning a huge part of a metagame with no apparent community input whatsoever is completely unacceptable, OM or not. I'm stepping in and unbanning Politoed. If you wish to re-ban it, convince me that there is a very good reason to ban it, and get support from other players.

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