There's probably something I'm missing, but what makes Gengar B+? Ghost doesn't get much, and gengar gets most relevant Ghost moves naturally anyway? Just a question, but then again, I don't play STABmons as much.
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STABmons Viability Ranking
- Thread starter EV
- Start date
- Status
Mainly it switches into Diggersby, one of the biggest threats in STABmons, with ease, though it also hits hard and is pretty fast, too. Not to mention it can use moves like Will-O-Wisp and Sub quite easily.
EV
Banned deucer.
Viability in STABmons isn't only based on what new moves the Pokemon gains, but how it functions in the larger metagame with these additions. Look at Escavalier. Steel and Bug give it access to a lot of new toys, but it just can't pull its weight compared to other threats even with reliable recovery, a ridiculously strong Gyro Ball, U-turn, and usable priority.
To me, it's not that escavalier is bad; it's just that mscizor outclasses it in almost every way.
A Pokemon more accurate of you description IMO would be talonflame. It gets all the normal toys and literally every flying it could ever want priority on. Thing is, it has major 4MSS: its sweeper sets are walled according to its 4th move. Diggersby also hampers it severely, dealing at least fake out damage every time it comes in.
Cloyster from A to C.
R.I.P. king's rock and the ability to use Cloyster without relying on setup.
EDIT: To show how much worse Cloyster is without its crown, it can't beat ANYTHING that it used to threaten with flinches now. Scizor? No. Skarm? No. Ferrothorn? No. Quagsire? No. Aegislash? No. Chansey? No. Thundy? No. Mega-TTar? Not without a smash AND prior damage. Togekiss? Not without a smash. Slowbro? No, and not even king that well either, even with a smash. Starmie? Not without setup. Rotom-W? No. Jirachi? No. Gyarados? Better hope it isn't a mega (Which most turn out to be). Jellicent? No. Metagross? No. And this isn't even considering the fact that we're getting new megas for Slowbro, Metagross, Swampert, Altaria, Pidgeot, and Salamence which all hinder Cloyster's ability to either gain set-up opportunities or sweep.
R.I.P. king's rock and the ability to use Cloyster without relying on setup.
EDIT: To show how much worse Cloyster is without its crown, it can't beat ANYTHING that it used to threaten with flinches now. Scizor? No. Skarm? No. Ferrothorn? No. Quagsire? No. Aegislash? No. Chansey? No. Thundy? No. Mega-TTar? Not without a smash AND prior damage. Togekiss? Not without a smash. Slowbro? No, and not even king that well either, even with a smash. Starmie? Not without setup. Rotom-W? No. Jirachi? No. Gyarados? Better hope it isn't a mega (Which most turn out to be). Jellicent? No. Metagross? No. And this isn't even considering the fact that we're getting new megas for Slowbro, Metagross, Swampert, Altaria, Pidgeot, and Salamence which all hinder Cloyster's ability to either gain set-up opportunities or sweep.
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Wait what? Am I missing something here? KR got banned?
Edit: never mind just saw that.
C is too harsh anyway, Water Shuriken is still godly on Cloyster. B rank is more appropriate.
Wait, can someone explain this King's Rock ban to me? When did this happen? Was there a post about it or something?
It came up in one of our discussions, and we agreed that it was uncompetitive and decided to ban it. It was less a formal suspect test and more an on-the-fly thing since the agreement was unanimous.
Some nominations.
Cloyster A ---> B-
Agreeing with others that it needs to drop following the King's Rock ban. Shell Smash sets (most likely with White Herb now) are still pretty dangerous though.
Greninja B ---> A-
Not quite as good as it is in OU because of how packed with priority the meta is, but still pretty damn good. I've been using a fairly standard 4 attacks set, with Origin Pulse replacing Hydro Pump and it pretty much always gets at least one kill (if not more). The amount of stuff it outspeeds and KOs is ridiculous - especially with its new ORAS additions like Gunk Shot and Low Kick. Can take advantage of the switches it causes with Dark Void, Knock Off, or entry hazards. Also gets Nasty Plot, but is a bit too frail for that imo.
Forretress B ---> C+
Not really on par with the rest of pokemon in the same rank. Way too passive (set up fodder for a lot of things) and mostly outclassed. More likely to be a liability than an asset vs decent players.
Landorus-Therian A+ ---> S
S rank is already pretty crowded, but after using it a lot, I think Lando-T is worthy of a spot. It fits on just about any team (if you've seen my team archive post you'll see that it is on the majority of teams there). Thanks to Intimidate, Roost, and its excellent typing it's one of the most reliable physical walls in the metagame (notably, one of the best Diggersby checks). It is also a very reliable hazard setter (either Spikes or Stealth Rock) or Defogger, depending on your team's needs. It can basically fulfill Skarmory's role without getting trapped by Magnet Pull.
It can also take on more offensive roles (it is one of the best scarfers in the meta) thanks to its base 145 attack, almost unresisted STAB coverage, and a variety of set up moves.
Raikou Unranked ---> C
Pretty niche, but a good check for Thundurus-I. It also boasts a powerful Volt Switch and can annoy switch-ins with Nuzzle.
Zapdos Unranked ---> C+
A decent check to all 3 genies and to Mega-Scizor. It is a pretty reliable Defogger and can use Oblivion Wing for a less passive approach to healing.
It might also be time to start considering rankings for the new megas. I haven't played with them enough to really make suggestions, but a lot of them seem really strong (B+ or higher).
Agreeing with others that it needs to drop following the King's Rock ban. Shell Smash sets (most likely with White Herb now) are still pretty dangerous though.
Not quite as good as it is in OU because of how packed with priority the meta is, but still pretty damn good. I've been using a fairly standard 4 attacks set, with Origin Pulse replacing Hydro Pump and it pretty much always gets at least one kill (if not more). The amount of stuff it outspeeds and KOs is ridiculous - especially with its new ORAS additions like Gunk Shot and Low Kick. Can take advantage of the switches it causes with Dark Void, Knock Off, or entry hazards. Also gets Nasty Plot, but is a bit too frail for that imo.
Not really on par with the rest of pokemon in the same rank. Way too passive (set up fodder for a lot of things) and mostly outclassed. More likely to be a liability than an asset vs decent players.
S rank is already pretty crowded, but after using it a lot, I think Lando-T is worthy of a spot. It fits on just about any team (if you've seen my team archive post you'll see that it is on the majority of teams there). Thanks to Intimidate, Roost, and its excellent typing it's one of the most reliable physical walls in the metagame (notably, one of the best Diggersby checks). It is also a very reliable hazard setter (either Spikes or Stealth Rock) or Defogger, depending on your team's needs. It can basically fulfill Skarmory's role without getting trapped by Magnet Pull.
It can also take on more offensive roles (it is one of the best scarfers in the meta) thanks to its base 145 attack, almost unresisted STAB coverage, and a variety of set up moves.
Pretty niche, but a good check for Thundurus-I. It also boasts a powerful Volt Switch and can annoy switch-ins with Nuzzle.
A decent check to all 3 genies and to Mega-Scizor. It is a pretty reliable Defogger and can use Oblivion Wing for a less passive approach to healing.
It might also be time to start considering rankings for the new megas. I haven't played with them enough to really make suggestions, but a lot of them seem really strong (B+ or higher).
EV
Banned deucer.
I think it's time to split S rank. Also, I agree with your recommendations word. I'll move things this weekend. Sometime next week--probably early like Monday/Tuesday--we should rank the new megas. It may be a bit early, but we've been able to custom battle with them and we pretty much know where they're going to fit in.
EV
Banned deucer.
Here's what I did:
Bronzong: C --> C-
Virizion: C+ --> C-
Cloyster: A --> B-
Greninja: B --> A-
Forretress: B --> C+
Raikou: N/A --> C
Zapdos: N/A --> C+
Gyarados-Mega: B --> A-
Gyarados: B- --> B+
Metagross: D --> C
Why the Gyarados movement? It's still an amazing check to Scizor like last gen, but it's also a nice deterrent to Mega Charizard X.
-1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 131-154 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And that's not even with a Bold nature. V-create is still stronger than Dragon Claw btw.
It has comparable physical bulk to Lando-T:
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 103-123 (31 - 37%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 96-114 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The weakness to Stealth Rock holds it back the most, but like Lando, it has Roost (and Defog but I don't think it should use it). And unlike Lando it has Taunt.
I bumped up the mega forme because of its Sub+DD+Crabhammer set with Mold Breaker, which is similar to Kyurem-B's Sub+DD+Icicle Crash set. And as of ORAS, it gets Crunch! It's no Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Pursuit etc, but it's there I guess.
Bronzong: C --> C-
Virizion: C+ --> C-
Cloyster: A --> B-
Greninja: B --> A-
Forretress: B --> C+
Raikou: N/A --> C
Zapdos: N/A --> C+
Gyarados-Mega: B --> A-
Gyarados: B- --> B+
Metagross: D --> C
Why the Gyarados movement? It's still an amazing check to Scizor like last gen, but it's also a nice deterrent to Mega Charizard X.
-1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 131-154 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And that's not even with a Bold nature. V-create is still stronger than Dragon Claw btw.
It has comparable physical bulk to Lando-T:
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 103-123 (31 - 37%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 96-114 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The weakness to Stealth Rock holds it back the most, but like Lando, it has Roost (and Defog but I don't think it should use it). And unlike Lando it has Taunt.
I bumped up the mega forme because of its Sub+DD+Crabhammer set with Mold Breaker, which is similar to Kyurem-B's Sub+DD+Icicle Crash set. And as of ORAS, it gets Crunch! It's no Knock Off/Sucker Punch/Pursuit etc, but it's there I guess.
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I've been testing some stuff on the ladder and I'm here to present two noms!
Unranked ---> A+
Mega Metagross is, quite bluntly, insane. Shift Gear transforms it into a menace and it's especially useful because it can not be revenge killed via Extreme Speed. Its high Speed makes it all the harder to beat, and with Tough Claws boosting the power of its moves, it's really difficult to stop. However, I think the thing holding it back from becoming an S Rank threat is solely due to the pressure that's really easily applied to it. Metagross in its base form is somewhat difficult to switch into and it has issues setting up with things like Diggersby in the tier. Furthermore, I've been seeing more Mega Charizard Y's for some reason, not exactly sure, and it is a wonderful check to Mega Metagross. Its Speed is terrible the turn it mega evolves, this is another concern. However, I think it could be an S Rank threat, but it just has very miniscule flaws holding it back and the inflation of S Rank is kinda bad.
Unranked ---> S
Agh, Mega Altaris is such a god. I hate to inflate S Rank, however, but Mega Altaria rightfully deserves it. Mega Altaria has insanely high power, 2HKOing Chansey with Boomburst at +2. The metagame has to settle down a bit more, but Mega Altaria is so dangerous that it has to be accounted for on all teams. Hell, I'm running Assault Vest Weezing to deal with it! Mega Altaria has such a wide movepool with coverage options to muscle past everything, and it also has Extreme Speed to blast through Sableye and Diggersby. Mega Altaria's fantastic bulk and excellent typing is all the more reason it deserves to be in S Rank. While Mega Altaria has checks, it honestly has no true counters. Pardon a tiny bit of bias in this nomination haha, I'm a huge supporter of getting rid of Mega Altaria. I do feel it deserves S Rank to reflect the current metagame, though.
Also, I would like to propose an S Rank and an S+ Rank. S Rank is becoming inflated and I think we should split it up to better reflect the metagame in its entirety, as Diggesby is obviously better than Sableye, etc. Also, I feel like Mega Tyranitar deserves to drop because Mega Altaria gives it a rough time. Here's how I would split the S Rank:
S+
S
Finally, I'm sure a "let's let the metagame settle down" will pop up, but I'm not a fan of this n_n. The viability should reflect the CURRENT metagame, and currently Mega Altaria is fantastic; letting the metagame settle down will be fine, we can always change stuff then, but until that time I feel it needs to be the current present time! Whatcha guys think?
Mega Metagross is, quite bluntly, insane. Shift Gear transforms it into a menace and it's especially useful because it can not be revenge killed via Extreme Speed. Its high Speed makes it all the harder to beat, and with Tough Claws boosting the power of its moves, it's really difficult to stop. However, I think the thing holding it back from becoming an S Rank threat is solely due to the pressure that's really easily applied to it. Metagross in its base form is somewhat difficult to switch into and it has issues setting up with things like Diggersby in the tier. Furthermore, I've been seeing more Mega Charizard Y's for some reason, not exactly sure, and it is a wonderful check to Mega Metagross. Its Speed is terrible the turn it mega evolves, this is another concern. However, I think it could be an S Rank threat, but it just has very miniscule flaws holding it back and the inflation of S Rank is kinda bad.
Agh, Mega Altaris is such a god. I hate to inflate S Rank, however, but Mega Altaria rightfully deserves it. Mega Altaria has insanely high power, 2HKOing Chansey with Boomburst at +2. The metagame has to settle down a bit more, but Mega Altaria is so dangerous that it has to be accounted for on all teams. Hell, I'm running Assault Vest Weezing to deal with it! Mega Altaria has such a wide movepool with coverage options to muscle past everything, and it also has Extreme Speed to blast through Sableye and Diggersby. Mega Altaria's fantastic bulk and excellent typing is all the more reason it deserves to be in S Rank. While Mega Altaria has checks, it honestly has no true counters. Pardon a tiny bit of bias in this nomination haha, I'm a huge supporter of getting rid of Mega Altaria. I do feel it deserves S Rank to reflect the current metagame, though.
Also, I would like to propose an S Rank and an S+ Rank. S Rank is becoming inflated and I think we should split it up to better reflect the metagame in its entirety, as Diggesby is obviously better than Sableye, etc. Also, I feel like Mega Tyranitar deserves to drop because Mega Altaria gives it a rough time. Here's how I would split the S Rank:
S+
S
Finally, I'm sure a "let's let the metagame settle down" will pop up, but I'm not a fan of this n_n. The viability should reflect the CURRENT metagame, and currently Mega Altaria is fantastic; letting the metagame settle down will be fine, we can always change stuff then, but until that time I feel it needs to be the current present time! Whatcha guys think?
I completely agree with you on this one. The only somewhat lacking stat he has is speed and shift gear not only ups his speed, but it also gives him an attack boost. This poke will wreck with a gear grind up and definitely deserves a rank.I've been testing some stuff on the ladder and I'm here to present two noms!
Unranked ---> A+
Mega Metagross is, quite bluntly, insane. Shift Gear transforms it into a menace and it's especially useful because it can not be revenge killed via Extreme Speed. Its high Speed makes it all the harder to beat, and with Tough Claws boosting the power of its moves, it's really difficult to stop. However, I think the thing holding it back from becoming an S Rank threat is solely due to the pressure that's really easily applied to it. Metagross in its base form is somewhat difficult to switch into and it has issues setting up with things like Diggersby in the tier. Furthermore, I've been seeing more Mega Charizard Y's for some reason, not exactly sure, and it is a wonderful check to Mega Metagross. Its Speed is terrible the turn it mega evolves, this is another concern. However, I think it could be an S Rank threat, but it just has very miniscule flaws holding it back and the inflation of S Rank is kinda bad.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Since lando-t is going to S as well, we should probably split the S rank into 3 categories, the same way the other viability tiers are done (S+, S, S-)
Right now we will have 8 S-rank pokemon (if altaria doesn't get banned), which I feel doesn't even fit the definition of S-rank in the first place. How do 8 pokemon define a metagame, being so good every team must tailor to prepare for them?
Right now we will have 8 S-rank pokemon (if altaria doesn't get banned), which I feel doesn't even fit the definition of S-rank in the first place. How do 8 pokemon define a metagame, being so good every team must tailor to prepare for them?
EV
Banned deucer.
Time for X rank.
Base Metagross benefits from Clear Body, which blocks predicted Parting Shots. Topsy Turvy is less common I think since people just expect Sableye to have it, so the fear of reversed stats if often enough to prevent setup, making Parting Shot more useful on Sableye.Unranked ---> A+
Mega Metagross is, quite bluntly, insane. Shift Gear transforms it into a menace and it's especially useful because it can not be revenge killed via Extreme Speed. Its high Speed makes it all the harder to beat, and with Tough Claws boosting the power of its moves, it's really difficult to stop. However, I think the thing holding it back from becoming an S Rank threat is solely due to the pressure that's really easily applied to it. Metagross in its base form is somewhat difficult to switch into and it has issues setting up with things like Diggersby in the tier. Furthermore, I've been seeing more Mega Charizard Y's for some reason, not exactly sure, and it is a wonderful check to Mega Metagross. Its Speed is terrible the turn it mega evolves, this is another concern. However, I think it could be an S Rank threat, but it just has very miniscule flaws holding it back and the inflation of S Rank is kinda bad.
I also forgot to mention I moved Metagross from D to C.
Proposing Braviary C --> B+ or A-
I think it's been mentioned before, but braviary really needs to be higher. While it loses to M-Lopunny, it outspeeds and KOs Diggersby with FakeSpeed. It isn't as strong as Diggersby, but Defiant gives it an edge; it beats Lando-T with ease (+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) and switches into Parting Shot to get a whopping +3 Attack boost, which it can use itself or Baton Pass to something like Kyurem-B. I've been one of the only people using it for a while, but I just encountered aesf using it on the ladder, and it completely wrecked me. Replays are down, so here's a log:
I'll grant you I didn't play too well in that match, but I had Quagsire, Mega Metagross, Heatran, and my own Braviary and I still couldn't handle it. Definitely much better than C.
I think it's been mentioned before, but braviary really needs to be higher. While it loses to M-Lopunny, it outspeeds and KOs Diggersby with FakeSpeed. It isn't as strong as Diggersby, but Defiant gives it an edge; it beats Lando-T with ease (+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) and switches into Parting Shot to get a whopping +3 Attack boost, which it can use itself or Baton Pass to something like Kyurem-B. I've been one of the only people using it for a while, but I just encountered aesf using it on the ladder, and it completely wrecked me. Replays are down, so here's a log:
aesf joined.
Seraph's Fire joined.
Format:
STABmons
Rated battle
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Pokémon knowing Baton Pass
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
Seraph's Fire's team: Metagross / Sableye / Quagsire / Braviary / Heatran / Meloetta
aesf's team: Lopunny / Rotom-Wash / Braviary / Aegislash / Espeon / Garchomp
★aesf: gl
★Seraph's Fire: oh yo aesf
★aesf: hey
Battle between aesf and Seraph's Fire started!
aesf sent out Garchomp!
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Turn 1
The opposing Garchomp used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Lt Brave used Baton Pass!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 2
Flame Emblem joined.
The opposing Garchomp used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
Bunny Buster used Toxic!
The opposing Garchomp was badly poisoned!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 3
The opposing Garchomp used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
Bunny Buster used Scald!
The opposing Garchomp lost 17% of its health!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 4
Bunny Buster used Scald!
A critical hit! The opposing Garchomp lost 26% of its health!
The opposing Garchomp used Dragon Tail!
Bunny Buster lost 19.3% of its health!
Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye) was dragged out!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 5
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Garchomp's Attack fell!
The opposing Garchomp's Special Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Garchomp used Dragon Tail!
Bunny Buster lost 17.8% of its health!
Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye) was dragged out!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
The opposing Garchomp fainted!
aesf sent out Lopunny!
Turn 6
Lopunny has Mega Evolved into Mega Lopunny!
Mr Ubiquitous used Dark Void!
The opposing Lopunny fell asleep!
The opposing Lopunny is fast asleep.
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 7
aesf withdrew Lopunny (Lopunny-Mega)!
aesf sent out Braviary!
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Braviary's Attack fell!
The opposing Braviary's Defiant sharply raised its Attack!
The opposing Braviary's Special Attack fell!
The opposing Braviary's Defiant sharply raised its Attack!
★aesf: gogogo
★Seraph's Fire: oh god I'm not used to fighting my own creation
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Samaritan (Metagross)!
Pointed stones dug into Samaritan!
Samaritan is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 8
Metagross has Mega Evolved into Mega Metagross!
The opposing Braviary used Fake Out!
It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 24.8% of its health!
Samaritan flinched and couldn't move!
Turn 9
Samaritan, come back!
Go! Bolganone (Heatran)!
Pointed stones dug into Bolganone!
Bolganone is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
It's not very effective... Bolganone lost 71.0% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Bolganone fainted!
★aesf: oh god
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Pointed stones dug into Lt Brave!
Turn 10
★Seraph's Fire: see
★Seraph's Fire: why I use it?
★Seraph's Fire: xD
★aesf: I just needed something
★aesf: to punish defog
Lt Brave used Fake Out!
The opposing Braviary lost 33% of its health!
Lt Brave lost some of its HP!
The opposing Braviary flinched and couldn't move!
Turn 11
★Seraph's Fire: "The arrow was fletched with one of the eagle's own feathers; sometimes we give our enemies the means of our destruction."
★Seraph's Fire: fitting
★Seraph's Fire: imo
aesf withdrew Braviary!
aesf sent out Aegislash!
The opposing Aegislash floats in the air with its Air Balloon!
Lt Brave used ExtremeSpeed!
It doesn't affect the opposing Aegislash...
Turn 12
Lt Brave used Baton Pass!
Go! Dirgesinger (Meloetta)!
Dirgesinger is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Dirgesinger!
The opposing Aegislash used Substitute!
The opposing Aegislash put in a substitute!
The opposing Aegislash lost 24% of its health!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
★aesf: hmm what does this do
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The substitute took damage for the opposing Aegislash!
The opposing Aegislash's Air Balloon popped!
The opposing Aegislash used Shift Gear!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack rose!
The opposing Aegislash's Speed sharply rose!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
★Seraph's Fire: I don't
★Seraph's Fire: even know what I'm doing now
Dirgesinger, come back!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Aegislash used Shift Gear!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack rose!
The opposing Aegislash's Speed sharply rose!
Bunny Buster restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 15
★aesf: kk
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
Bunny Buster lost 23.9% of its health!
Bunny Buster fainted!
Go! Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye)!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 16
★aesf: most of this team is just stolen sets
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack fell!
The opposing Aegislash's Special Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Dirgesinger (Meloetta)!
Dirgesinger is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Dirgesinger!
The opposing Aegislash used Shadow Force!
The opposing Aegislash vanished instantly!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 17
The opposing Aegislash used Shadow Force!
It doesn't affect Dirgesinger...
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash's substitute faded!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 18
★Seraph's Fire: btw you should replace bb on braviary with dragon ascent
★aesf: sory
★aesf: was just afk for a sec
★Seraph's Fire: it's fine
The opposing Aegislash used Substitute!
The opposing Aegislash put in a substitute!
The opposing Aegislash lost 25% of its health!
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash's substitute faded!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 19
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
A critical hit! Dirgesinger lost 73.0% of its health!
Dirgesinger fainted!
★aesf: welp
Go! Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye)!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Turn 20
aesf withdrew Aegislash!
aesf sent out Espeon!
Mr Ubiquitous used Topsy-Turvy!
Mr Ubiquitous's Topsy-Turvy was bounced back by Magic Bounce!
Mr Ubiquitous's stat changes were inverted!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 21
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
Mr Ubiquitous's Parting Shot was bounced back by Magic Bounce!
Mr Ubiquitous's Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous's Special Attack fell!
aesf withdrew Espeon!
aesf sent out Braviary!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 22
Mr Ubiquitous used Recover!
Mr Ubiquitous regained health!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
Mr Ubiquitous lost 63.5% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 23
Mr Ubiquitous used Recover!
Mr Ubiquitous regained health!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
Mr Ubiquitous lost 58.2% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Mr Ubiquitous fainted!
Go! Samaritan (Metagross-Mega)!
Samaritan is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Samaritan!
Turn 24
★aesf: is megagross just a shift gear set
The opposing Braviary used ExtremeSpeed!
It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 19.9% of its health!
Samaritan used Shift Gear!
Samaritan's Attack rose!
Samaritan's Speed sharply rose!
Turn 25
★Seraph's Fire: oh well
★Seraph's Fire: rip
The opposing Braviary used ExtremeSpeed!
A critical hit! It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 10.3% of its health!
Samaritan fainted!
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Pointed stones dug into Lt Brave!
Turn 26
aesf withdrew Braviary!
aesf sent out Aegislash!
Lt Brave used Fake Out!
It doesn't affect the opposing Aegislash...
Turn 27
Lt Brave used Dragon Ascent!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash lost 39% of its health!
Lt Brave's Defense fell!
Lt Brave's Special Defense fell!
Lt Brave lost some of its HP!
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
Lt Brave lost 30.4% of its health!
Lt Brave fainted!
aesf won the battle!
Ladder updating...
★aesf: gg
aesf's rating: 1000 → 1040
(+40 for winning)
Seraph's Fire's rating: 1000 → 1000
(+0 for losing)
★Seraph's Fire: gg lol
Seraph's Fire joined.
Format:
STABmons
Rated battle
Baton Pass Clause: Limit one Pokémon knowing Baton Pass
Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
Moody Clause: Moody is banned
Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
Seraph's Fire's team: Metagross / Sableye / Quagsire / Braviary / Heatran / Meloetta
aesf's team: Lopunny / Rotom-Wash / Braviary / Aegislash / Espeon / Garchomp
★aesf: gl
★Seraph's Fire: oh yo aesf
★aesf: hey
Battle between aesf and Seraph's Fire started!
aesf sent out Garchomp!
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Turn 1
The opposing Garchomp used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Lt Brave used Baton Pass!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 2
Flame Emblem joined.
The opposing Garchomp used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
Bunny Buster used Toxic!
The opposing Garchomp was badly poisoned!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 3
The opposing Garchomp used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
Bunny Buster used Scald!
The opposing Garchomp lost 17% of its health!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 4
Bunny Buster used Scald!
A critical hit! The opposing Garchomp lost 26% of its health!
The opposing Garchomp used Dragon Tail!
Bunny Buster lost 19.3% of its health!
Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye) was dragged out!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
Turn 5
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Garchomp's Attack fell!
The opposing Garchomp's Special Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Garchomp used Dragon Tail!
Bunny Buster lost 17.8% of its health!
Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye) was dragged out!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The opposing Garchomp was hurt by poison!
The opposing Garchomp fainted!
aesf sent out Lopunny!
Turn 6
Lopunny has Mega Evolved into Mega Lopunny!
Mr Ubiquitous used Dark Void!
The opposing Lopunny fell asleep!
The opposing Lopunny is fast asleep.
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 7
aesf withdrew Lopunny (Lopunny-Mega)!
aesf sent out Braviary!
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Braviary's Attack fell!
The opposing Braviary's Defiant sharply raised its Attack!
The opposing Braviary's Special Attack fell!
The opposing Braviary's Defiant sharply raised its Attack!
★aesf: gogogo
★Seraph's Fire: oh god I'm not used to fighting my own creation
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Samaritan (Metagross)!
Pointed stones dug into Samaritan!
Samaritan is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 8
Metagross has Mega Evolved into Mega Metagross!
The opposing Braviary used Fake Out!
It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 24.8% of its health!
Samaritan flinched and couldn't move!
Turn 9
Samaritan, come back!
Go! Bolganone (Heatran)!
Pointed stones dug into Bolganone!
Bolganone is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
It's not very effective... Bolganone lost 71.0% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Bolganone fainted!
★aesf: oh god
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Pointed stones dug into Lt Brave!
Turn 10
★Seraph's Fire: see
★Seraph's Fire: why I use it?
★Seraph's Fire: xD
★aesf: I just needed something
★aesf: to punish defog
Lt Brave used Fake Out!
The opposing Braviary lost 33% of its health!
Lt Brave lost some of its HP!
The opposing Braviary flinched and couldn't move!
Turn 11
★Seraph's Fire: "The arrow was fletched with one of the eagle's own feathers; sometimes we give our enemies the means of our destruction."
★Seraph's Fire: fitting
★Seraph's Fire: imo
aesf withdrew Braviary!
aesf sent out Aegislash!
The opposing Aegislash floats in the air with its Air Balloon!
Lt Brave used ExtremeSpeed!
It doesn't affect the opposing Aegislash...
Turn 12
Lt Brave used Baton Pass!
Go! Dirgesinger (Meloetta)!
Dirgesinger is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Dirgesinger!
The opposing Aegislash used Substitute!
The opposing Aegislash put in a substitute!
The opposing Aegislash lost 24% of its health!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
★aesf: hmm what does this do
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The substitute took damage for the opposing Aegislash!
The opposing Aegislash's Air Balloon popped!
The opposing Aegislash used Shift Gear!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack rose!
The opposing Aegislash's Speed sharply rose!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
★Seraph's Fire: I don't
★Seraph's Fire: even know what I'm doing now
Dirgesinger, come back!
Go! Bunny Buster (Quagsire)!
Pointed stones dug into Bunny Buster!
Bunny Buster is hurt by the spikes!
The opposing Aegislash used Shift Gear!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack rose!
The opposing Aegislash's Speed sharply rose!
Bunny Buster restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 15
★aesf: kk
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
Bunny Buster lost 23.9% of its health!
Bunny Buster fainted!
Go! Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye)!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 16
★aesf: most of this team is just stolen sets
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
The opposing Aegislash's Attack fell!
The opposing Aegislash's Special Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous, come back!
Go! Dirgesinger (Meloetta)!
Dirgesinger is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Dirgesinger!
The opposing Aegislash used Shadow Force!
The opposing Aegislash vanished instantly!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 17
The opposing Aegislash used Shadow Force!
It doesn't affect Dirgesinger...
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash's substitute faded!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 18
★Seraph's Fire: btw you should replace bb on braviary with dragon ascent
★aesf: sory
★aesf: was just afk for a sec
★Seraph's Fire: it's fine
The opposing Aegislash used Substitute!
The opposing Aegislash put in a substitute!
The opposing Aegislash lost 25% of its health!
Dirgesinger used Luster Purge!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash's substitute faded!
Dirgesinger restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 19
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
A critical hit! Dirgesinger lost 73.0% of its health!
Dirgesinger fainted!
★aesf: welp
Go! Mr Ubiquitous (Sableye)!
Mr Ubiquitous is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Mr Ubiquitous!
Turn 20
aesf withdrew Aegislash!
aesf sent out Espeon!
Mr Ubiquitous used Topsy-Turvy!
Mr Ubiquitous's Topsy-Turvy was bounced back by Magic Bounce!
Mr Ubiquitous's stat changes were inverted!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 21
Mr Ubiquitous used Parting Shot!
Mr Ubiquitous's Parting Shot was bounced back by Magic Bounce!
Mr Ubiquitous's Attack fell!
Mr Ubiquitous's Special Attack fell!
aesf withdrew Espeon!
aesf sent out Braviary!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 22
Mr Ubiquitous used Recover!
Mr Ubiquitous regained health!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
Mr Ubiquitous lost 63.5% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Mr Ubiquitous restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 23
Mr Ubiquitous used Recover!
Mr Ubiquitous regained health!
The opposing Braviary used Brave Bird!
Mr Ubiquitous lost 58.2% of its health!
The opposing Braviary is damaged by recoil!
Mr Ubiquitous fainted!
Go! Samaritan (Metagross-Mega)!
Samaritan is hurt by the spikes!
Pointed stones dug into Samaritan!
Turn 24
★aesf: is megagross just a shift gear set
The opposing Braviary used ExtremeSpeed!
It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 19.9% of its health!
Samaritan used Shift Gear!
Samaritan's Attack rose!
Samaritan's Speed sharply rose!
Turn 25
★Seraph's Fire: oh well
★Seraph's Fire: rip
The opposing Braviary used ExtremeSpeed!
A critical hit! It's not very effective... Samaritan lost 10.3% of its health!
Samaritan fainted!
Go! Lt Brave (Braviary)!
Pointed stones dug into Lt Brave!
Turn 26
aesf withdrew Braviary!
aesf sent out Aegislash!
Lt Brave used Fake Out!
It doesn't affect the opposing Aegislash...
Turn 27
Lt Brave used Dragon Ascent!
It's not very effective... The opposing Aegislash lost 39% of its health!
Lt Brave's Defense fell!
Lt Brave's Special Defense fell!
Lt Brave lost some of its HP!
The opposing Aegislash used Sacred Sword!
Lt Brave lost 30.4% of its health!
Lt Brave fainted!
aesf won the battle!
Ladder updating...
★aesf: gg
aesf's rating: 1000 → 1040
(+40 for winning)
Seraph's Fire's rating: 1000 → 1000
(+0 for losing)
★Seraph's Fire: gg lol
I'll grant you I didn't play too well in that match, but I had Quagsire, Mega Metagross, Heatran, and my own Braviary and I still couldn't handle it. Definitely much better than C.
I'd compare Sableye in STABmons to Talonflame in OU. People prepare for it, so it's not as much of a threat. Does it discredit them at all? Ofc not! Just because Sableye is somewhat easier to prepare for doesn't make it so that he can't define the metagame in some way. And he certainly does, at least until it loses its dark type :P
On that note, would msaeyr be worth a spot? It can still do it's regular sableye job premega, while not taking increased dmg from knock off, but it loses its item slot, and idk if gaining magic bounce and a ton of bulk is worth losing prankster...
On that note, would msaeyr be worth a spot? It can still do it's regular sableye job premega, while not taking increased dmg from knock off, but it loses its item slot, and idk if gaining magic bounce and a ton of bulk is worth losing prankster...
I think Sableye still deserves S rank; the meta isn't as set up oriented because of it. It's still an excellent pivot and check to set up in general, and while Mega Lopunny and Altaria hurt it, I don't think they do enough to take it out of S. Maybe S- if we split S tier, but not A.
I'd like to make a very controversial nomination:
Magnezone: A- Rank ---> S Rank
Ok, so, let me start off by saying that this change is not due to Magnezone's power, Magnezone's bulk, Magnezone's typing, or even Magnezone itself, it's purely for the raw support that Magnezone provides. Magnezone pairs wonderfully with so many Pokemon, including, but not limited to, Kyurem-B, Diggersby, Mega Altaria, and Mega Scizor. It effortlessly traps Steel-types and excels at its job, something that nothing else can pull off. Going back to my first sentence, I'd just like to say that all these reasons are all the more that Magnezone deserves S Rank. It's got the typing, bulk, and power, the only downside to using it is its Speed. I've been seeing lots of Magnezone nowadays and for a good reason, it's just so good! I know some won't agree with this, but I'd like to compare it to Sableye. Sableye excels at what it does and is the utter best at it, checking so much stuff in the metagame; Magnezone, however, traps a large portion of the metagame and is the utter best at it. For this reason, Magnezone deserves to raise up to S Rank or at least A+ Rank. Thoughts n_n?
Magnezone: A- Rank ---> S Rank
EV
Banned deucer.
w0rd I do not think Sableye should drop. The metagame is the way it is primarily because of it and Diggersby. That is the definition of S-rank. Sure, there are more viable things that can beat it, but they are judged in their viability compared to other threats on how they get past Sableye (and other stops to offense/setup).
unfixable I do not think Magnezone is S-rank worthy. It's terribly limited in its role and can't even beat one of the best Steel-types in the game (Heatran), while your other little favorite Magnet Puller can. It's a damn good Doom Desire/Volt Switch pivot, typically with King's Shield, but outside that, and killing Skarmory or Scizor with HP Fire, it can't always accomplish what its supposed to do. I think it's solid A, however, maaaybe A+.
New mega ranks coming soon. Keep up the discussion about them!
unfixable I do not think Magnezone is S-rank worthy. It's terribly limited in its role and can't even beat one of the best Steel-types in the game (Heatran), while your other little favorite Magnet Puller can. It's a damn good Doom Desire/Volt Switch pivot, typically with King's Shield, but outside that, and killing Skarmory or Scizor with HP Fire, it can't always accomplish what its supposed to do. I think it's solid A, however, maaaybe A+.
New mega ranks coming soon. Keep up the discussion about them!
I guess I can understand your reasoning, but honestly Sableye is a pretty big liability a lot of the time - whereas all the other S ranked pokemon are very low risk, high reward. It undoubtedly influences the metagame, but to say it defines it is a stretch. Most good players aren't using it anymore (it's mostly on teams clearly built off the viability ranks ie 6 S ranked mons). The current meta is mostly genies, bunnies, and Magnezone + sweeper.
In its main role as set-up discourager, you're stuck with a wasted moveslot (Topsy-Turvy) if they aren't using set-up pokemon - which is not that uncommon. It also can't switch into most pokemon once they are set-up (Shell Smash Diggersby or Shift Gear Mega-Scizor for example) so you basically have to sac something to bring it in (and that point you might as well just use a revenge killer). In fact, it can't even Topsy Turvy a lot of pokemon once they're set-up even after saccing something (Talonflame, Kangaskhan, Mega-Lopunny, etc).
Also if you're bringing Sableye in on a mon with boosts it's pretty obvious what you're going to do, so they'll just switch out and come back in later.
As a pivot, it's quite annoying but lacks any offensive presence to actually threaten things or pick off weakened mons (unlike Scizor, Mega-Manectric or Landorus-T). Prankster Dark Void is good, but in a metagame where a lot of things can potentially learn Dark Void, Spore, or Lovely Kiss a decent team should be prepared for sleep moves.
It also finds itself in a lot of match-ups vs common pokemon (that aren't being used solely to deal with Sableye) where it can't do anything (eg Thundurus, Gliscor, Talonflame, Charizard-mega, Altaria-mega) so by using Sableye you're risking giving free turns to some pretty threatening mons
tl;dr Sableye is over-rated
That was basically what I meant; shoot high, aim low. Out of those I'd say A+ ;_;.
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