1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

'Stalling is no fun!' Revamp

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Slim Slendy, Aug 20, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    PRESENTING
    ‘Stalling is no fun…! 2.0’
    As opposed to resurrecting the old fossil that is my previous thread, I decided to post a more clear, in depth view of my current roster. Feel free to nitpick, alter, suggest, and so on. The team has done well thus far, getting me to a rating of 1688, which I consider to be respectable. Anyway, rate, rape, rebuild, whatever you wish, so longer as it’s in a constructive manner. All help is appreciated, and I thank every single one of you who decides to throw in their two cents. If requested, I will also add in a section for all opposing threats as I have come across them, and will keep this thread updated with such info. If there’s anything I’ve missed, PM me, I don’t want those posts on the thread itself (regarding format, and the like.)
    That being said, PLEASE RATE 1/100.
    No seriously, I'm curious. Please, do it.
    At a Glance

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In Depth Look

    [​IMG]
    Tom @ Leftovers
    Prankster
    Calm
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play
    Taunt, Recovery
    Quite possibly my favorite Pokémon, Sableye. Ok, this guy, oddly enough, quite commonly finds himself being a lead for me. Most people don’t expect the spinblocker to be put in the front line, nor do they account for the fact that 75% of the time, one of their pokes will become hopelessly crippled with a will-o-wisp (people who think opening with a SS Cloyster is a good idea usually wind up rage quitting after the first or second turn.) Recover is here for the recovery (WHOA, REALLY?!) Taunt is here primarily for the locking down of EH setters. The favoring of Def is rather self-explanatory. I come in on a fighting attack aimed at Chansey, I priority burn it, I recover off the damage and either stall the other poke to it's death, or switch. Obviously, this will fail if the opponent predicts my move, switching into either a different 'mon with immunity. The four addition speed EVs allow it to win speed ties with other Sableye.
    Unfortunately for our optic friend, damage is not easily soaked, making entry hazards much more deadly. Recovery alleviates this to an extent, but it’s very situational, and runs the risk of only buying one turn before being forced to switch out to a check. Unfortunately, for Sableye, his defenses are rather lackluster. Will-O-Wisp will alleviate the worries to an extent, but relying on luck is usually a bad idea. Foul Play is there for Reuniclus, who fails to do much of anything against Tom.



    [​IMG]
    More Hentai @ Black Sludge
    Liquid Ooze
    Bold
    252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
    Toxic Spikes, Scald
    Rapid Spin, Rest

    Liquid Ooze is chosen over Rain Dish, primarily due to the fact that counting on someone else to have a weather inducer is likely to result in Tenta not having an ability at all (not to mention rain teams seem to be going down in usage, as of recent.) Another option I’ve considered is possible replacing this hentai actor wannnabe with Donphan, but it’ll probably hurt the synergy of my team, due to the fact I already have a poke that can check electric users (Gliscor.)
    The moveset is a little gimmicky, as it packs rest instead of protect. The rationale behind this is simple; tank a hit or two whilst laying down some spikes, or RSing away hazards, rest, switch into Chansey. The synergy between the two make this a decently reliable method of recovery, the only problem being Gliscor and the issues that arise with Poison Heal. To date, I haven't had many issues with Gliscors one turn loss of recovery, but it does leave him open to other status effects, such as spore.



    [​IMG]
    Ovulating @ Eviolite
    Natural Cure
    Calm
    4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
    Softboiled, Toxic
    Heal Bell, Seismic Toss

    Ahh, one of the most annoying sets to ever be devised for the blob sisters...Toxic is here to hit non-statused switch-ins. Softboiled for the recovery, due to the lack of Leftovers, something that’s only slightly missed. Heal Bell to aid in removal of those pesky status moves that plague Sableye, Skarmory, and of course, Ferrothorn. Seismic toss is here to take care of non-ghost switch ins, and, to be honest, it's generally easy to tell when someone is going to be switching into a Scizor, with the hope of coming in on a Toxic. One of the few counters to this set is a taunt user, which is easily predicted, and dealt with, using the proper check (and in some cases, the taunt is just fine, and a switch is not needed at all.) Straight up attacking moves do next to nothing, thanks to Softboiled and Eviolite, and little investment in the HP stat. With this combination, it's not uncommon Chansey may actually be able to tank a few hits before being forced to switch (if that's even a requirement in the first place. Take, for example, CB Scizor's pursuit.)


    [​IMG]
    Hentai @ Leftovers
    Iron Barbs
    Relaxed
    252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    Stealth Rock, Leech Seed
    Protect, Power Whip

    Standard EV spread is standard. Standard nature is standard. Standard leftovers are standard. When I found out that Leech Seed and Stealth Rock were now legal together, I almost peed myself in excitement (not really…) but I did change Spikes over as quickly as I could. Power Whip for those obnoxious taunt users, and useful STAB. Leech Seed and Protect are always awesome together, although they occassionally suffer from poor synergy w/ Stealth Rocks (due to choosing one or the other.) I have considered running a Rocky Helmet gimmick with this set, as it is possible to predict well enough to make Leech Seed make up for the lack of recovery. On top of this, nothing would please me more than seeing a Life Orb Scizor die as a result of a poorly timed Bullet Punch. In addition, adding a rocky helmet will provide a decent buffer against RSers, due to Sableye’s tendency to faint a little bit early. With Rocky helmet and Iron Barbs, the Poke is going to take a whopping 29% of its health afterwards, and RS doesn’t spin away hazards if the user dies after the attack has been executed. Couple this with Chansey’s odd habit of drawing in physical based attacks, and this almost seems like the more logical choice. Need a second opinion here. Beyond that, this set is primarily to cover the few weaknesses I have spread throughout my team. Electric attacks are pretty easily grounded, making this guy a quality check to most variants of LO Jolteon, and the like. The only moves this guy truly fears are special fire moves, and the occasional Super Power from Scizor. Both of these are easily checked by our friend, Sableye.


    [​IMG]
    SkarmPiss @ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    Impish
    252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
    Spikes, Roost
    Whirlwind, Brave Bird

    If you were able to understand the switch in 4 Def EVs in 4 Spe EVs on Skarmory, good job! You’ve been reading my RMT thoroughly. Primarily there to check other WW Skarmorys, and frustrate my opponent, who’s hoping to win a speed tie and bring in a more favorable opponent. Brave Bird > Taunt, for several reasons. First off, Skarmory is so very slow, the move non-attacking move used will most likely succeed. If it's a status move, a sub, or even a powerful boosting move, it's too late. Coupled with sturdy in extreme cases, I always have WW to deal with it. On top of that, I have Tenta for spinning away those pesky entry hazards. Bravebird hits Virizion, Breloom, and other fighting types for super effective damage, covering up one of the last remaining type disadvantages I have throughout my team. Thanks to Skarmorys’ OP defense stat, spikes are easily set up. Sturdy is nice as a last second safe to what couple be a lost match, just in case. I have considered exchanging Leftovers for the notorious Red Card, but I personally think the tradeoff it too large – not to mention not many come in to set up on Skarmory, asides from MB Espeon / Xatu, something I rarely find myself coming across. Spikes > Stealth Rock due to the new legality of Ferrothorn w/ SR and LS.

    [​IMG]
    Knows Your Spot Too @ Poison Orb
    Poison Heal
    Impish
    244 HP / 184 Def / 76 Spe
    Substitute, Protect
    Earthquake, Ice Fang

    Last but not least, Gliscor. This guy closes up the last of the weaknesses I’ve found throughout my team (although, it is worth noting, he was added simply due to the fact that I had a crippling weakness to Terrakion not long ago. I’ve found said weakness to have diminished in the past couple changes I have made.) 244 HP to get the most out of Poison Heal, same deal, as always, with the additional speed EVs. Ice Fang is there to deal with those pesky Dragon types, and opposing Gliscor / Landorus…es? Landori? Anyway, this guy can comfortable check many switch ins – including Reuniclus, something I despise if Chansey and Sableye have somehow bitten the dust. Lots of PP stalling on this guy, and with the aid of Toxic Spikes, most don’t last long. No taunt, once again, thanks to Chansey, Skarmory, and being able to RS away entry hazards. Elaborating on what I mentioned earlier, regarding being added to respond to certain checks, it is very possible this guy may no longer be needed on this team, and may only be filler. If so, I would be more than open to adding a Hippowdon, or some other form of wall here to make better use of this space.


    Thank you all, and gimme twenty dollars,
    ~ Slim Slendy
  2. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    [RESERVED FOR THREAT LIST]
  3. False Sense

    False Sense

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    402
    Weird, I feel like I've fought this team before...

    Anyway, your team looks pretty solid overall. If I were to make a suggestion, though, it would be to change Tentacruel's ability to Rain Dish. I completely understand your reasoning in Liquid Ooze, but realistically, it's more likely you'll come across a rain team than anything with a draining move. Also, with all the new toys Rain got from BW2, I would say it's become MORE common than usual, so all the more reason for Rain Dish.

    Also, I would suggest NOT replacing Tentacruel with Donphan, as this leaves you without a Fire resist, letting Sun teams tear through your team.
  4. Derpinator

    Derpinator

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    173
    I love stall teams. I can't really give you a full rate atm cuz im busy, but what I see off the bat is that you have no actual offensive force, so to speak. Everything is literally just a stall that keeps you alive but your opponent can take advantage of that and destroy your stall.
    Secondly, I would take Gliscor out and throw Politoed in. Then put Rain Dish on Tentacruel and replace Rest with Protect. What the rain does is make your Ferrothorn harder to OHKO and your Skarmory will only be weak to Electric which may kill you with Thunder, but nobody carries Thunder without rain in the first place so it would have been dead anyway. It also allows Tentacruel to stall better with Rain Dish.
    If you don't wanna take out Gliscor, I would recommend either Blissey or Sableye because I personally think they sound better than they work.
  5. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Are you sure? I love preying on rain teams, especially stall oriented ones. Not to mention, with Ferrothorn's prevalence throughout OU, Liquid Ooze makes Tenta a perfect check against a mon that could screw over my entire team if Gliscor has gone down.

    That's the point of a stall team though, what I lack in offensive presence, I make up for in residual damage.
    If I were to remove Gliscor, and throw in Politoed, it would leave my entire team open for a poke with either Hurricane or Thunder to crush my team. Chansey can only soak so much, and in the event of a lucky crit, confusion proc, or paralyze proc, I'm as good as dead.
    I've run this team up to 1688. They work just as well as they sound.
    Not trying to be a jerk, but you should really test out combinations before recommending a switch. I apologize if I'm wrong, but this duo has worked many more times than it's failed.
  6. Ambicrow3

    Ambicrow3

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Messages:
    63
    I see right away that mixed infernape tears through your team. Especially mixape with life orb. To fix this, maybe put slowbro over gliscor. Slowbro still somewhat walls terrakion, and can handle infernape. Not much esle to say, I've never been great at correcting RMTs.
  7. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Interesting. I'm going to finish my threat list and see where I lose coverage, and where I gain it. Quite frankly, I think it's a great idea.
    Do you have an suggestions of as to a particular set to run, or just the standard?
  8. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,812
    I fought this before, but it was against some noob that thew away a bunch of his pokes and used a trick+iron ball sableye.

    I don't see infernape being that big of a problem, especially with Tentacruel. However, the team would definitely fall to a Genesect+Dugtrio combo. If genesect has an expert belt, it hits 4 pokemon on your team for massive damage, while sableye can't really touch it. If genesect U-turns out into dugtrio on a blissey switch...you're gonna get problems. I would suggest using a bulky Rotom-W over sableye. It will still have Will-O-Wisp, but you unfortunately lack a spinblocker on your team. However, as you don't use spikes, and have chansey for toxic as well, I don't see toxic spikes and SR being of the utmost importance to you. Rotom would give your team a much-needed Electric move, and as your team has resistances but not coverage I think this could be the best. If you still wanted a spinblocker, I would suggest Jellicent over Tentacruel. Unfortunately, you would then have no rapid spinner...the cycle continues. I'm not sure the team could be improved without making it worse somehow.

    Also, SR+Leech seed was legal for a long time. Torterra...
  9. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Skarmory uses spikes, so a spinblocker is pretty important =/

    and ya, whenever I try and work with my team, I run into this sort of problem. Ugh.

    I meant the SR + LS being legal on Ferrothorn, lol.
  10. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Oh for Gods sake, please don't rate a stall team unless you know something about stall, people -__-

    Now, this is a pretty cool team; pretty much the standard rainstall build, but with Sableye instead of Politoed, relying on the opponent to put up Rain for you. However, there are some pokemon which will cause you problems. First, Keldeo. If it starts Calm Minding without Toxic Spikes on their side of the field (and literally 85% of teams at the moment have a spinner or grounded Poison type), you lose.
    The second big threat is one which is pretty common to Rainstall teams, but regardless, Jellicent will beat you. Unless you can force it to switch into Toxic Spikes (which no good defensive team including Jelli will have to do), you will lose; all you can really do is switch in with Sableye, get crippled by a Burn, then force it out with a threat of status (which it could still take anyway and not care that much).
    Finally, NP Thundurus and SubRoost Kyurem both look slightly problematic. Kyurem basically beats every stall team, stalling out Chansey and then steamrolling the rest of your members. Thundurus-T is a lesser issue, but still, it can get a NP on most of your team members, 2HKO Chansey, then get at least a couple more kills before dying to status.

    The simplest thing you can do to alleviate these problems is run a standard SpDef Amoonguss over Ferrothorn. Defensively, Dragons are already covered nicely between Chansey and Skarmory; but Amoonguss beats Keldeo and Thundurus comfortably, and gives you a solid check to Jellicent. Finally, it also beats Breloom; meaning that if you get outpredicted and the opponent hits Skarmory with Spore, you have another safe counter (Sableye isn't bad, but gets hurt badly switching into Bullet Seed; plus, it's your spinblocker, so you want it healthy).

    Now, some other minor fixes. Rain Dish is always better than Liquid Ooze on Tentacruel, USE IT. Also, more defense on Chansey is preferable; try something like Bold, 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 SpDef. The loss in special defense honestly won't matter 19 games out of 20, whereas the extra physical bulk can be clutch for surviving Outrage's, Close Combat's and the like. Since I'm suggesting you replace Ferro, you'll want to shift Stealth Rock onto either Gliscor or Chansey. I'd personally suggest Chansey, because it lets you get it up quickly against 90% of teams, and also Heal Bell doesn't synergise that well with Toxic Orb Gliscor.

    I think that covers everything. Glad to see someone else running stall, good luck :)
  11. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,024
    Bubbly hit the nail on the had, completely, hate when he does it before I do, but like he said, Keldeo can give you some major problems if you don't have toxic spikes up yet, I ran a similar team recently and spdef ammonguss is one of the focal points in any stall team at the moment, walling some of the biggest weather users, such as Thundurus-t and keldeo. Someone else has also mentioned it, making it an actual rain stall team could be very beneficial to you. I also suggest, making a spdef rachi switch in for skarmory, and giving that rocks, allowing ferrothron to just run spikes. Rachi also brings pashing wishes to the table which is a great help for stall in general.

    In short the changes I suggest are..

    Rachi > Skarm
    spikes on Ferrothron
    Politoed > Sableye
    and finally Amoongus > Chansey
  12. TheCanadianWifier

    TheCanadianWifier Sorry aboot that, eh?

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    240
    Oh man, I remember playing this team with my rain team, and getting walled to hell and back. Then, cause the server restarted, we had a rematch and I won in 40- turns :P
    It's a really solid core of pokes; and that heal bell on chansey, and that rapid spin on tenta, make it nearly impossibly to out-stall this stall team. I think that the slowbro over gliscor would be a really interesting change, regenerator + a special attacker would be cool for this team (and it doesn't worry about toxic because of heal bell.)

    I feel like I'm just repeating things that were already said, but rain dish on tentacruel would help much more than ooze. You wouldn't lose your counter to ferro, as the previously mentioned slowbro with a set of scald, flamethrower, toxic, slackoff (252hp 252 defence 4speed @bold) could counter ferrothorns that are either lacking powerwhip, or are burned.
    Gyro Ball: 5.32 - 6.34%
    Power Whip: 42.63 - 50.25%

    That slowbro can also act as a check to any terrakion lacking x-scissor, as scald does:
    Scald: 188-224 (58.02 - 69.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Scald in Rain: 284-336 (87.65 - 103.7%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    while BANDED Terrakion does:
    Close Combat: 25.12 - 29.69%
    Stone Edge: 41.87 - 49.49%
    X-Scissor: 44.67 - 52.79%
    Earthquake: 27.91 - 32.99%

    But as I said earlier, this team can be extremely tough to break through regardless, so nice job on it. Feel free to criticize my recommendations :P
  13. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
  14. ariq2kpokemanz

    ariq2kpokemanz

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    imo he doesnt have a weakness to mixape, tentacruel can easily handle it but if tentacruel is ko'd then it cann be a huge threat
  15. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    I just found out something I had totally overlooked.

    Item Clause
    Slowbro -Leftovers
    Sableye - Leftovers
    Ferrothorn - Leftovers
    Skarmory - Leftovers

    Any suggestions on how to fix this?

    EDIT: I'm a bloody moron. Apparently, there is no Item Clause in OU. Gave me the chance to try out Rocky Helmet on Ferrothorn, which was -ok- but I don't think it convinced me one way or another of as to which is better. So, instead, I'd like opinions on this, if possible.
  16. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,857
    Hey there, Slim Slendy,

    This is a truly impeccable weatherless stall team (it's actually just my rain stall with Gliscor > Politoed lol). Every common threat you'd normally see that messes with stall is checked by one Pokemon or another. That's something that's very hard to do, but you do it well. However, there are three major weaknesses: Bulk Up Breloom, Calm Mind Keldeo, and Taunt Jellicent. Breloom can Spore your Skarmory and set up all over your face; even Gliscor can't check it, because once Breloom starts setting up Bulk Ups, Ice Fang is going to be doing next to nothing. Keldeo can literally set up Calm Minds on half your team, then go to work with a +1 Secret Sword taking out Ferrothorn and doing about 85% to Chansey, with Surf taking care of the rest. Finally, Jellicent can Taunt whatever, then either Will-O-Wisp stall it to death or kill it with Scald. If Tentacruel doesn't get two layers of Toxic Spikes up first, your entire team will be swept.

    To fix these problems, I propose two changes. First, instead of using Protect | Substitute | Ice Fang | Earthquake on Gliscor, change to a set of Protect | Substitute | Toxic | Aerial Ace. I realize this takes away your super-effective hits on Dragonite and Salamence, but you check both of those pretty well with Skarmory and Sableye, and Bulk Up Breloom is too big of a threat to be ignored. Even when at +1 Defense, Breloom is still OHKOd by Aerial Ace, making it completely insignificant as opposed to a huge threat. Toxic instead of Earthquake will help you stall out things like Rotom-W, who, when combined with Scizor, can give your team some trouble. Hit it with a Toxic, Sub + Protect stall it to death. The other fix is changing Toxic Spikes to Toxic on Tentacruel. I realize TSpikes are nice sometimes, but since your team already has both Stealth Rock and Spikes, it's a little bit overkill to also have TSpikes. Using Toxic will allow Tentacruel to badly poison Keldeo, limiting its lifespan, so you can take it down with some smart switching. Also, you'll be able to badly poison Jellicent before it can Taunt you expecting Toxic Spikes, letting you whittle it down via SubProtect Gliscor and/or smart switching.

    That's all I have for you. Again, nice team. I hope you consider the changes I suggested, and good luck in your future endeavors!
  17. Slim Slendy

    Slim Slendy

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Thank you all for the kind comments! I think I've got my team down now.

    Anywho, I'm retiring from Smogon. No particular reason, asides from a few mods who love throwing their pretty little banhammers around for funnsies.
    I reached my goal of 1700 on the ladder, after being called terribad by several mods throughout the smogon community. I enjoyed my time here, however, the moderators have simply ruined for me. The communication is far too stiff and paranoid between members and mod for my liking.

    To make this post relevant, so it's not deleted, Lavos Spawn, I tried out what you suggested, and it works decently well. However, I find Slowbro to be the more effective option. Thank you all for you input, perhaps I'll battle a couple of you again someday.

    EDIT: Showout to Zaachaeus and SJCrew for calling me bad, and kicking me for no apparent reason on several occasions. You two truly inspired me to get where I am today, and for that I thank you :). Hope you both lead rich, meaningful lives.
    Oh, and gimme twenty dollars.

    ~Slim Slendy
  18. PDC

    PDC soon as your start sleeping catching you offguard
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,207
    Hello, cool team here! First off I suggest trying Toxic over Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel due to their diminishing effect on the metagame. This aids in opponents such as Volcarona, Jellicent, and Keldeo. I also suggest trying Protect over Rest, as that one turn of no status on Gliscor can harm your chances against Breloom, Terrakion, and other strong physical attackers. Also, change to Rain Dish on Tentacruel, as with the prevalence of Rain, this will help you at every turn when facing stuff like Conkelldurr and whatnot.

    Not much to say as Lavos Spawn got the just of it, so in conclusion, good luck!

    EDIT : Well then, sorry to see you go so soon :(
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)