Stalling you to the Moon and back! My VGC team

[Airfoil]

I've been working on this team for some time now, and it seems pretty solid so far. I know there are several weaknesses, but I am having trouble covering them (one of the main reasons I'm posting it). It is a full stall team (sandstorm) and I plan on using it in the VGC (meaning double battles). I am still not 100% sure whats banned from the tournaments.I wanted to get a team up early so I had plenty of time to tweak it...so...ya.



The Team:

Changes are in bold.
​

The Plague:
Hippowdon @ Yache Berry / Passho Berry
Sandstream Careful nature
148 HP; 108 Defense; 252 Sp. Defense

* Stockpile
* Slack Off
* Roar
* Toxic

This is probably the first time in history that someone uses a Hippowdon without Curse or Stealth Rock. As I said, this is a pure stalling team. I really don't see much of a problem with Hippowdon. I first used Care full and max Sp. Def. because I was nervous someone would attempt to destroy him from his lesser Sp. Def. It might be a little much, but it is nice when the enemy sends in Milotic, Manaphy, or even Varporeon and ubruptly find out Surf will only do about 2/3. The rest of the EVs are pretty self explanatory. Stockpile was one of the main building-blocks of this team. It helps get more bulk quickly. Since attacks will rarely take away more than half of it's health, it gives me time to Stockpile up. After Stockpile, Slack Off is usually second. Slack Off is a constant on all Hippowdon. It obviously buys me time for Toxi/Burn stalling and keeps him in the battle. Toxic and Roar is a nice combo and earned him the title of "the plague". Roar also stops enemies from setting up SD, DD, Subs, etc. Yache Berry is because a lot of stuff carries Ice Beam/Blizzard/Ice Punch to protect themselves from Salamence, Gliscor, Zapdos, ect. Seeing as the new VGC rules might allow Ubers and all levels, Passho would help against Water Spout and Hydro Pump. I only need the berrys to save me a turn to Stockpile. After that I'm bulky enough to take most of those attacks.



The Great Wall:
Cradily @ Lum Berry
Suction Cups Relaxed nature
220 HP; 160 Defense; 128 Sp. Defense

* Stockpile
* Substitute
* Recover
* Confuse Ray

Cradily is one of the best walls in the game. Hands down. If it wasn't for Skarm and Taunt's popularity, he would be OU. Suction Cups helps against Skarmory, but it is immune to poison. After a Stockpile, he is indestructible! 7 out of 8 Heatran explode when faced with a +2 Sp. Defense Cradily (no lie). It took me a while to choose between Stockpile or the Barrier/Amnesia combo, but i preferred to have that extra move slot. Toxic is for stalling (although, I might take Toxic off him or Shuckle, not both) and Cradily should never leave his Poke Ball w/o Recover (bar on Curse sets or Rest Talkers). Confuse Ray is kinda a filler. It's mainly for steels, and is surprisingly effective. As I mentioned, I may get rid of Toxic or Confuse Ray for Gastro Acid or the Barrier/Amnesia combo. Relaxed is for his lower defense stat. More is invested in Defense in HP because Cradily already has really good Special Defense (Highest of all Grass) and gets a Special Defense boost from SS.

*Cradily has survived trough Taunt. He usually has enough time to Recover after 3 turns of Struggling. Taunt should still be avoided, but I thought I should mention that....



The Cleric:
Clefable @ Flame Orb
Magic Guard Impish nature
168 HP; 180 Defense; 160 Sp. Defense

* Trick
* Aromatherapy
* Protect
* Wish

Clefable is an excellent status absorber, because it really doesn't care what it's hit with. Magic Guard protects it from SS damage and Burn damage. Aromatherpy is probably the most important part of this set. Having a pure stall team means that poison can destroy me. Aromtherapy stops that, as well as gets rid of anything else that might be an issue. Fling is the second most important step. Obviously, Steel types could completely wall me because of SS and Toxic immunity. Tricking Flame Orb will guarantee a Burn, unlike Will-O-Wisp w/ 75 accuracy. Clefable also can switch in more easily than Dusknoir can. Wish is unnecessary, but is extremely useful. Often times, switching my Pokemon in will cause them to lose a nice big chunk of health. By using Wish, they get healed after switching in. Protect is there to help stalling and for wish-healing. I would also love to run Recycle on this set, but I have no idea where to put it. 190 Defense and Impish is to pick up Clefables lower Defense stat (all though, none of them are that low or that high...). It already has good HP and Sp. Def.

*I used Clefable over Blissey because Clefable isn't :
a) Crippled by Burn or Poison.
b) Isn't hurt by SS, as the VGC usually has the item clause so only 1 Pokemon can have Leftovers.



The Reaper:
Giratina @ Leftovers
Pressure Sassy nature
240 HP; 252 Defense; 16 Sp. Attack

* Calm Mind
* Rest
* Dragon Pulse
* Will-O-Wisp

Giratina is incredibly bulky, w/ excellent defenses and HP. He can't boost both defenses, like the rest of my Pokemon, but the heavy Defense investments, and Calm Mind easily fixes this downfall. Rest is his only form of Recovery, and helps him shrug of status w/ Clefable's help. It's also good for PP stalling, as Pressure will drain powerful, low accuracy and low PP attacks. Giratina won't have to bother wasting his own HP neither because it doesn't attack while it's asleep. Dragon Pulse is to put CMs Sp Attack boosts some use, as well as stopping Substitues from walling my status attacks. It can also quickly remove a threat, as there are no Pokemon that double resist Dragon, and only steels resist it at all. Will-O-Wisp is to burn enemies that Clefable can't handle, like Lucario adn Hitmontop. The EV's are to give it some incredible bulk. There is no Sp. Defense because CM increases it, and it can go above +3 (unlike Stockpile). It also has some Sp. Attack to make up for it's lower Sp. Attack stat. Near Max HP is for obvious reasons, and Defense isn't getting boosted like Sp. Defense is.



The Behemoth:
Shuckle @ Ganlon Berry
Gluttony Sassy nature
252 HP; 152 Defense; 104 Sp. Defense

* Rest
* Gastro Acid
* Toxic
* Wrap

I couldn't turn down Shuckle. With EXCELENT defensive stats and a Sp Defense boost in SS, he becomes a beast! Rest is Shuckle's only form of recover, and it makes him a good status absorber. I have been using Sleep Talk on him, but it rarely makes much of a difference. 2 turns of sleep isn't so bad since Shuckle isn't sweeping, and is more than bulky enough to wait two turns before he can heal. Wrap is to trap Pokemon, adds more damage to Toxic, and cancels out Leftovers in case the enemy is burned. Since Shuckle can't increase it's defenses, I thought Gluttony+Defense Boosting berry would help a little. But if OHKO moves start showing up, then I'll probably run Sturdy w/ Grip Claw or something. I never get lucky against OHKO attacks like Fissure (I'm not kidding). I put so little in Sp. Defense because of the SS boost and Sassy nature.

*I usually us Shuckle for PP stalling, as he usually has more than enough bulk to drain PP, and he doesn't use any. He doesn't have to lose PP when he can just sleep.



The Reinforcments
Tyranitar @ Babiri Berry
Sandstream Niave nature
252 Attack; 48 Sp. Attack; 208 Speed

* Crunch
* Stone Edge
* Superpower
* Flamethrower

As mentioned in one of my posts, this is a very funny Pokemon to have on a stall-based team. Tyranitar's main purpose on this team to drag out steel types such as Skarmory and Scizor who can't be poisoned. I know I have burn for that, but burn isn't going to phase Scizor or Skarm w/ Roost (although, Scizor hates the attack drop). He's probably the best Pokemon for this because of how common Scizor and Metagross are, and because SandStream helps out when Hippow is gone. Crunch and Stone Edge is for when the enemy is on their last 2 Pokemon, and I can't Roar away their boosts. They also help remove Subs, which my team loves so much. These attacks w/ the EV spread can guarantee it gets a few KOs. Superpower is to stop enemy Dark and Rock types, although, it's kind of a filler at the moment. I'm still testing Tyranitar to see if I need to change any moves around. The EVs are to guarantee lots of power in Crunch and SE, while the speed investment is to outrun Scizor, one of Tyranitar's faster threats.

This team was meant for double battles, but I have been testing it out on Shoddy. I have not done too much competitive double battling, so I'm not 100% sure what to expect.
​

 

[ck49]

The new VGC rules can be found here. Two Ubers are allowed, and most teams have been rain teams so far.

edit: also, how do you plan to do damage to pokemon like scizor and Metagross?

 

[Airfoil]

I know. I read them already. But those haven't been confirmed for the US. Theres also alot of talk going around that Ubers will be banned. Either way, it won't change much on this team.

I usually Burn Meta and Scizor. then just stall them out. This is also in doubles, so I can Wrap, Confuse Ray and Burn them all at one. I also have Pain Split for Roosting Scizor. Dusknoir are my main counters to those two.

If Ubers are allowed (witch they probably will) than I'll use a Giratina wall or Mewtwo with Recover. Mewtwo can also taunt quickly, while both get Will-O-Wisp to help cushion my team against steels a bit more.

I don't know about Stupid (I do realize its not the "best" idea). I wanted to make a pure stall team and, well, here it is. I started running with a few attacks until I realized that most of these Pokemon would work better at stalling without them. I do get your point. Luckily, Taunt isn't too common in Doubles (and I'm probably going to run Taunt on Pokemon #6, as soon as I get some ideas on who it should be).

I'm pretty sure Knock Off, Wrap, and Fling count as attacks.

 

[Scoopapa]

Why not Trick instead of Fling? It removes their item in addition to burning them, and then they're screwed even if they have a cleric. Also you could net Clefable some Leftovers to help it stall. If you get a Choice Item, just trick it back... you will still burn them and you may either get your Flame Orb back to cripple something else or cripple something else on their team by switching the Choice Item to it. In fact, since it's doubles, you could make sure you trick it on to something that doesn't want it.

Also, if there are Ubers allowed, Giratina over Dusknior?

 

[Airfoil]

Thank you for the advice!

Trick is an excellent idea (I was even asking myself that question when I was re-typing my team on the computer). I started this team in November, and had a very good reason why I used Fling, but I can't remember what it was...so....I'll go ahead and Swap them.

Giratina in exchange for Dusknoir.....I'll definitely think about....
I'll go through and check which would work best, but the only real differences are:
a) Dusknoir has Higher Defense stats.
b) Giratina has higher HP.
Because of Dusknoir's lower HP, though, it also him to use Pain Split and get more HP back/Take more away from the opposing Pokemon. This is as close to instant recovery either of them get. Giratina can only Rest.

I'll probably put a "Giratina wall" as Pokemon 6. I already have a few sets for him, but wanted to hear someone else opinion before changing anything else.

 

[Bogmire]

Giratina in exchange for Dusknoir.....I'll definitely think about....
I'll go through and check which would work best, but the only real differences are:
a) Dusknoir has Higher Defense stats.
b) Giratina has higher HP.
Because of Dusknoir's lower HP, though, it also him to use Pain Split and get more HP back/Take more away from the opposing Pokemon. This is as close to instant recovery either of them get. Giratina can only Rest.

dusknoir can't even hold a candle to giratina. it has 105 more base HP. thats a HUGE difference compared to the mere 15 extra base defense dusknoir possesses (in fact it takes neutral hits over 50% better than dusknoir) i would just replace it if i were you.

your shuckle's ev spread is weird. max its hp out for the most efficient bulk.

 

[Airfoil]

it has 105 more base HP. thats a HUGE difference compared to the mere 15 extra base defense dusknoir possesses

Those 15 extra base defenses could make or break a battle. The lower HP is probably the main reason I like Dusknoir better. Giratina's high HP mean it can't recover w/ Pain Split. Dusknoir also isn't weak to Dragon or Ice. Ice is always carried to stop Mence while Outrage is strong enough w/o super effective damage. Pain Split (as I mentioned) can also punish Pokemon attempting to recover there lost HP, and can be used right from the start to knock the enemy's down quickly.

your shuckle's ev spread is weird. max its hp out for the most efficient bulk.

Shuckle does have an odd EV spread, as I said in the description. It has worked well so far, but I'll go ahead and exchange some Defense into HP and test the spread on Shoddy (although it sholdn't hurt him to lose the extra defense).

 

[Pokeric]

Giratina is 10x better than Dusknoir. You like it for its low HP? thats great it can recover like 10% with a Pain Split before it does and can't pack a punch. Try Choice Scarf Tyranitar over Hippowdon I find Rock Slide from a Scarf T-Tar can be pretty good. Recovery moves don't really have a place in VGC since they can just double team you. Protect would be a better option. Try Snorlax over Clefable, you dont really need a status absorber since its not as big in doubles as it is in singles and plus Snorlax can Selfdestruct in things faces with Giratina out...and why are all yor Pokemon walled by Taunt? good luck winning with that

 

[Airfoil]

Pain Split heals a lot more than 10% of HP. I just finished a few more test battles, and Pain Split save me several times. It usually knocks me from 15% to 80% on Pokemon who don't focus on Defense, like Lucario and Yanmega, w/ most of their health. Because of Dusknoir's retched HP, he can successfully heal nice chunks of his health back at the cost of the opponents higher HP.

And what would happen if all my Pokemon are Poisoned? Snorlax won't help anyone on my team. Clefable is for guaranteed burn w/ Trick and to support my team w/ Aromatherapy. What's the point of having a stall team if the enemy will end up stalling you.

I can't rely on Will-O-Wisp cause it ALWAYS misses. If I added Snorlax, there would be no way of stopping steels (esp. Lucario) other than putting EQ or Fire Punch on Snorlax. If I relied on Lax for steels Weavile, Breloom, and Lucario would ravage me.

What good would Scarf T-Tar do on a stall team? Being locked into Rock Slide is also a bad idea because then I would get walled by Steels. Normally, yes, T-Tar would be a good idea, but I would have to completely remake the team in order to support him with scarf. I also don't like how he gets knocked out from a 4x Mach Punch from Lucario, one of the Pokemon who would shut me down if I got rid of Clefable. It would stop Water Spout Kyogre, but it's usefulness stops there.

And lastly, what is a stall team without recovery? If neither opponent can take away more than half, then they wouldn't really accomplish anything (this would be the case after a stockpile). If the enemies can't finish me off in two attacks, then I could just recover my HP and keep taking their attacks. If I don't heal, then I'm KO'd. If I use Protect, then they will just attack me next turn.

 

[Airfoil]

I'm still working on the Taunt Pokemon....Electrode is the only one fast enough to stop the Top Taunter, Areodactyl. I've been using electrode with some success, but I'm still looking for someone better.

The Taunt:
Electrode @ Light Clay / Focus Sash
Soundproof Jolly nature
240 HP; 30 Attack; 240 Speed

* Taunt
* Light Screen
* Explosion
* Protect

Light Screen is for support. Because of the Item Claus, Leftovers can't be used. Light Clay has been more useful so far, but I'll test it some more to make sure. Explosion is to knock out a quick threat. Protect is for stalling and to stop others from using Explosion. Taunt is to stop enemy Taunters (mainly Areodactyl).

 

[UncleSam]

Your EV's are weird on every single pokemon. Every one is in a multiple of 5. You definitely want to make every EV a multiple of four. For instance, moving 3 of Hippowdon's SPD EVs into DEF would give him an extra DEF point without compromising any SPD points. As for Shuckle, max out his HP before giving him any defense EVs. Same with Dusknoir.

As for the strategy of the team, how exactly do you plan on beating people? You lack most forms of passive damage, and have only one phazer. For this to work, you need Spikes and probably Toxic Spikes as well somewhere on the team. Drop Toxic on every poke and add in a decent STAB attack or, if their attack sucks, another status/support move. I would personally recommend a Skarmory, it has Spikes and Whirlwind/Roar to phaze. It can wall Physical attackers like theres no tomorrow, and can deal decent damage with Brave Bird/Roose off damage easily. It's even immune to SS as a bonus. For a Toxic Spiker, I would probably go with Forretress, it can Spin away enemy entry hazards, especially Spikes, which really ruin this team. It is immune to SS, packs only one weakness, and can even learn Explosion in case you run into trouble.

 

[Airfoil]

Thanks for your help. I'll move around the EVs immediately. I forgot to make them divisible by 4. I'll go ahead and just redo Shuckle's EV's altogether(although it shouldn't be too hard). Dusknoir is supposed to have horrible HP, that way it can use Pain Split to some effect.

Spikes is a very good idea, and was in the origional plans for my team. Although, this team is for the VGC, meaning it's 4 v 4 doubles. Because there are only four Pokemon, and 2 of them will be out at a time, It will take less time to just use Toxic because the enemy will rarely switch Pokemon. Skarmory is a Pokemon I probably will add. I took Skarm out because I needed a Taunter, and seeing as having Electrode isn't changing much, I'll probably swap them out for Skarm.

Forre is nice, but Skarm would be a better staler/wall because of Roost and no 4x weakness, and can phaze away Pokemon attempting to set up.

I thought I had most passive damage covered - Curse, Leech Seed, and entry hazards are the only things I'm really missing.

I'll go through and swap some moves around, because your right in the fact that not so many Pokemon need to have toxic. I still need Will-O-Wisp and Trick on Dusknoir and Clefable, though, because w/o them both, Steels would destroy me.

 

[DarkSlay]

Hey there. I've never been to a VGC tournament, but looking at this team, I can see that it could benefit from a good number of tweaks. We can only assume that Uber will have an opportunity to be in the VGC, as Japan's rules are pretty much the only thing we can go by at this current time. If so, two Pokemon will strike fear into this team's heart:

Kyogre and Groudon.

I bet you, if these two are allowed, 30-50% of the teams you will see there wil be running a perma-Rain Dance team, and another 15-25% of the remaining teams will run Groudon to counter them. Either way, this team is pretty much screwed over without Sandstorm, point blank. While Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams are crippled outside of their weather support, so is this team. And a good Rain Dance/Sunny Day team will run a second Poke as a weather back-up. This is why I reccomend you do the same, as although Hippowdon is quite bulky, a strong Special Attacker (notably Kyogre, Starmie, Latias, etc.) will be able to OHKO-2HKO wilth relative ease, even outside of a rainstorm. The good news is that Hippowdon is slower than Kyogre and Groudon, which means if you see one as a lead, Sandstorm goes off first. However, if someone decides to withdraw Kyogre and save it, or have a Kyogre after the leads are gone, Hippowdon will fail. As such, I strongly reccomend you have a back-up Sandstorm user on the team. The wisest thing to do is take advantage of the fact that Sandstorm is the only weather condition that has two Pokes that can perma-summon it, and add Tyranitar to the team. Now, we have to be careful about this: this team already is quite weak to the likes of Scizor and Metagross, so we need a good way to elminate them without just throwing some willy-nilly Pokemon that can just tack on some resistances. If you know your opponent is packing one of these guys or a late-game Kyogre/Groudon, you're going to need a second Sandstorm starter in TTar. That is why we should call upon a good set of TTar's that might help you stop these counters: BaitTar.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt/Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EV's: 252 Atk/48 SpA/208 Spe
Nature: Hasty
Moveset:
- Crunch
- Pursuit/Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower

Now, this set seems strange for such a stall-oriented team, but in reality, BaitTar actually accomplishes two things for this team: one, it provides the team with a second output of Sandstorm, which is crucial in case you have rampant Kyogre and Groudon running around. Two, it baits things like Scizor, Skarmory, and Metagross to come out and attack it, and KO it in return. Essentially, this is your opposing stall breaker as well, with an essential OHKO on Max EV'd +Def Chansey with Superpower + Sandstorm, and a 2HKO on Skarmory. Since this team is quite Taunt and status weak, a wall breaker will be a welcome addition to the team. The choice of item directly correlates to the choice of Fire move: in you choose Flamethower for the 100% accuracy, you need Expert Belt to score guaranteed 2HKO's on offensive variants of Metagross and all variants of Skarmory, or else they will be 3HKO's. If you choose Fire Blast, they will be 2HKO'd regardless, so Babiri Berry allows you to survive a CBScizor's Bullet Punch with ease and OHKO, and gives you your only chance at stopping CBGross from OHKO'ing you with Meteor Mash. However, you are still OHKO'd by Earthquake, but it's a risky move for Doubles, so the risk of it being chosen is a little lower. You might want to consider using Expert Belt regardless if you pick Stone Edge over Pursuit (better type coverage, although Pursuit is still handy) just to hit the spectrum a little harder. The choice is yours, and I suggest you experiment. If you think the EV's are a little funky and want to change them, remember this: the 208 EV's in Speed and a Hasty nature allow you out outspeed all Adamant forms of Scizor (which is pretty much all of them) and Metagross, and OHKO/2HKO them with little risk. Without this, a Scizor will be able to OHKO you with Superpower or Brick Break, which is not a good thing.

However, if you find that this is insufficient, it would be acceptable to add Sandstorm to either Shuckle or Cradily, although five turns of Sandstorm will do little as compared to regular Rain Dance, as you need Sandstorm to last throughout the whole battle, while Rain Dance teams can sweep a team with a few number of Rain turns. I'd opt for the Tyranitar in this case.

I'm going to second the move to replace Dusknoir with Giratina. Let me explain why with a few simple calculations:

Standard Gengar's Shadow Ball:
Your Dusknoir:91.4% - 107.8%
My Giratina (+1): 39.5% - 46.7%

CBScizor's Bullet Punch:
Your Dusknoir:37.5% - 44.5%
My Giratina: 20.6% - 24.6%

SD Absol's Night Slash (at +2):
Your Dusknoir: 138.3% - 162.5%
My Giratina: 75.4% - 89%
I really don't need more to explain my point, as these are the top attacks against Giratina and the metagame anyway. Absol is shown just to prove that a powerful STAB physical Dark attack can't OHKO Giratina, while Dusnkoir is more than OHKO'd. You may now be wondering what Giratina I am using that will be reccomended to you. Here it is:

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EV's: 240 HP/252 Def/16 SpA
Nature: Bold
Moveset:
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk/Will O' Wisp

I'm sorry, but HP values do matter. Especially when the max HP Dusknoir can get is 294, and Giratina's max is 504. This is why Giratina is Uber: monstrous HP combined with monstrous Defenses combined with above average attacking potential and speed equals Uber. I understand you are hell-bent on saying that Dusknoir is better than Giratina, but rather than relying on a few of your own experiences, try looking up damage calculations. Giratina takes every hit better than Dusknoir, whether it's physical or special. Giratina has access to a move that can actually up his stats (Calm Mind), unlike Dusknoir. Psych Up is generally a terrible move, as most threats you will be seeing will be more likely to either run Choice items or stat boosters like Swords Dance, which does not help this Dusknoir. Pain Split sounds great on paper, but you must understand that the whole point of this team is to wear down opponents using Burn, Toxic, and Sandstorm. I see few times when you will actually be receiving a note-worthy HP gain from it, regardless of how great you think the move is. Also, keeping Dusknoir because of Pain Split is a terrible decision, honestly.

This Giratina set allows you to accomplish almost exactly what Dusknoir does, but in a much more conservative fashion. Even after one Calm Mind, this thing has amazing Special Defense, and it has a lot of opportunities to set up on a lot of Pokemon. When saying that the added Dragon typing will hinder you because of added weaknesses of Dragon and Ice, you failed to mention that it would actually help you more with added resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric. Calm Mind + Dragon Pulse allows Giratina to be a strong Poke who isn't exactly walled by Taunt, like all of your team is. It can PP stall, get rid of status, boost its Special Defense, hit all types except Steel for at least neutral, use Will O' Wisp...why are we even looking at Dusknoir? I like him in OU, but if Ubers are allowed, there is no comparison.

I'll also nitpick your Pokes a bit too:

As one of the above posters pointed out, your EV's are pretty messed up. If you really don't want to use standard EV distribution on the basic sets, just use numbers divisible by 4, and work from there. I'll start: if I were you, I'd change Hippowdon's EV's to 148 HP/108 Def/252 SpD. It gives you the same stats as before, but one more point in Defense. Do this for the rest of your Pokemon.

Consider Substitute on Cradily over Confuse Ray or Toxic. With a few Stockpiles, not a whole lot will be able to break aSub, which will give Cradily a lot of possible turns to Recover with little impunity, plus be able to block status. As an example, that Heatran you said exploding on you? At +3, it would need three Explosions to break your Sub. If you don't call that a Stall tactic, I don't know what is, really. In my opinion, I'd put it over Confuse Ray, as when a Pokemon is confused and hits itself, it doesn't use PP, which might hurt you in trying to stall out certain Pokes. But either option is fine.

Consider Yawn over Roar for Hippowdon. This might sound odd, but in a 4 v 4 Dobules battle, Roar seems kind of...impractical. Yeah, it gets rid of stat boosters, but I'm not sure how important that is to a lead, especially when there is no Stealth Rock or Spikes in play. It doesn't help your stall either, as the opponent can still just attack you right before you Roar. Yawn would make the opponent decide on whether to switch out or not. If he doesn't, a quarter of his team is out of commission, and you get a Stockpile in exchange for an attack or some last ditch effort from your opponent (try not to Yawn something that knows Explode, else it's a lost cause). If he does switch out, you get a free Stockpile in anyway, and you can use Yawn again to keep boosting or for healing. Normally, I would never suggest this, but on your Hippowdon set, it may be a bit more practical.

Hope this helps, and good luck with the team! :)

 

[Airfoil]

Thank you so much for all that information! I bet it took you a good hour or two to get that all down!

Something I need to point out is I never said Dusknoir is better than Giratina. I know for a fact Giratina is better than Dusknoir, I just said Dusknoir is nice because Roosting Togekiss and Scizor kept driving me crazy on Shoddy. I'll go ahead and add Giratina. I'll use the set you gave me to test him out, then I'll tweak him to fit my needs. I'm probably going to use Will-O-Wisp over Sleep Talk because mainly because:
a) Both Giratina and Dusknoir are bulkier, and can switch in more than Clefable.
b)Clefable can take Super Power from Scizor and T-Tar, but hates Close Combat from Lucario, usually suriving w/ 7-10% left.

I'll be honest, Confuse Ray has on me a lot of battles, but I'll give Substitute a shot. Your right, though. It'll probably save me a lot of trouble. I'll try to get rid of Toxic instead of Confuse Ray, and then give Shuckle Gastro Acid to stop Gutsy Pokemon and Breloom.

I was actually getting a set ready for Baittar when I decided to check my RMT and saw this post. As I was reading it, I actually thought you had just copy and pasted Smogon's article. You did an excellent job! I was just going to put SS on a Skarm, but Baittar is an excellent idea. I was actually afraid of my weakness to Water Spout Kyogre. I really don't like the idea of Superpower, but I'll test it out and see if the attack/defense drop is something I can live w/. I'm still afraid of Lucario w/ Mach Punch, but I can probably switch to Giratina, as Giratina hopefully won't fear Crunch as much as Dusk. Switching to Hippow would be best, but if I'm using T-Tar than it probably means Hippow is knocked out.
I'm going to try w/ Flamethrower, because Fire Punch doesn't supply near enough power, and I don't want to be ruined by a miss from Fire Blast.

Yawn is a good option...It seems better than Roar, but I didn't use it because I usually have plenty of time to set up anyway, and it's useless if the enemy has already been poisoned. It also give the enemy time to heal if they used Leech Seed, or If SS isn't up, Leftovers.
It still is a good idea. I just put Roar in because it's annoying when something sets up on me. I enjoy the look on the enemies face to see there +3 in attack gone with the wind. Also, w/o Roar, I'll be walled by Subs.

Thax for your advice! It helped a lot.

I know about the EVs already. I'll have the EVs fixed by Tomorrow.

 

[Bluewind]

If I'm not mistaken you should just max Clefable's HP. It turns out that the HP EVs are more benefitial taking hits, from both ends of spectrum, than putting those respective EVs in defenses (not really sure though).

 

[Airfoil]

Your not mistaken. But defenses decrease the amount of HP you lose. Less defense means I lose more HP. Since Clefable has higher Sp. Defense and HP stats, more is put into defense. In most cases, though, it's better to have more HP (like w/ Shuckle and Giratina, because they already have great Defense and Sp. Defense).

If you look at Blissey, it may not go down to red from one physical hit, but it still loses 400 to 500 HP. Obviously, Clefable doesn't have 500 HP to go through.

 

[ΩDonut]

Speaking as the American VGC Champion, the most success you will probably have with this team is annoying some kid in Round 1, and losing in Round 2. Having high defenses is no guarantee against being KO'd, especially when a Pokemon can be double-targeted (and you don't have Protect on anybody except Clefable). Your only "defense" against Dark Void is a Clefable with a Burn Orb. There's Taunt. There's Encore. And no, a Taunt Electrode doesn't help when you can stop it from Taunting with Fake Out (or just plain take it down).

You are counting too much on your Pokemon being "invincible", when this is hardly so. And I'm not sure you realize you can only bring 4 Pokemon into the battle.

There are just too many ways to screw over this team, and most of them will show up in the VGC at higher levels. I suggest you watch some VGC battles on Youtube, to see what most of them are like. (You can also find Japanese VGC battles by searching for "Pokemon WCS")

 

[Airfoil]

I am aware that this team is very risky, and the Taunt problem is the main reason I posted this team. I haven't had that much experience in doubles (because there are no competitive players on PBR doubles, just Noobs abusing Dialga, Palkia, and Darkrai's Dark Void), but it has worked excellently in Shoddy Singles so far (both w/ and w/o taunters).

I have taken into account that only 4 Pokemon are allowed. My only worry is that I have to carry Clefable. Without it's Aromatherapy, stalling is a bit harder.

I haven't seen too many threats in the few videos I have seen. The 3 things I am really worried about are Dialga, Aereodactyl, and Azelf, but none of them appear to often. And even if I do run into one of them, they won't enjoy staying in on Tyranitar who can Stone Edge Aero, Super Power Dialga, and Crunch Azelf.

The only thing that has really bugged me are Critical hits. None of Pokemon really care about Sleep (Its kind of handy, blocking Toxic and Burn) which is why none of them carry sleep talk.

If you have a few examples of videos against people my team can't handle, I would love some links. I haven't seen too many, but of all of them, I've seen only one battle where any of the Pokemon carry Taunt.

 

[drcossack]

If you have a few examples of videos against people my team can't handle, I would love some links. I haven't seen too many, but of all of them, I've seen only one battle where any of the Pokemon carry Taunt.

http://www.youtube.com/user/skarmbliss - this channel has a decent amount of 2010 VGC matches from Japan, as well as some matches from weekly tournaments on WiFi.

Here's a good example of two offensive teams going at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x_Vjzp1Rt8

In the VGC, I would focus more on offense and not stall. This team especially is shut down by fast Taunters - Mewtwo has a field day with 2/3 of your team. OmegaDonut's right - this might win a Round 1 match against a moron, but someone skilled in this format will walk all over you, whether we use Taunt or not.

As far as PBR Doubles - I don't know your timezone, but, assuming you're American - if you go on at night (from like 7 PM - midnight), you will run into Japanese players. There's a mix of bad, average, and really good - regardless, you'll still learn what works in the 2010 metagame.

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

I don't have much experience with stall, but your team should probably have a Dragon resist, especially because your best wall is weak to that type. Off the top of my head, Skarmory could fit well, providing you with Spikes (you really should have some hazards on a stall team) and also having access to Taunt to stop your opponents from healing themselves or boosting their stats. A few of your EV spreads can be improved. Generally, you should use a nature beneficial to the Pokemon's highest base stat if you're going to boost the stat with EVs.

The Plague:
Hippowdon @ Yache Berry / Passho Berry
Sandstream Careful nature
148 HP; 108 Defense; 252 Sp. Defense

* Stockpile
* Slack Off
* Roar
* Toxic

To me, it makes a lot more sense to boost a base 118 Defense stat (with an Impish nature) than a base 72 Special Defense, but you aren't actually wasting EVs with this spread.

The Great Wall:
Cradily @ Lum Berry
Suction Cups Relaxed nature
220 HP; 160 Defense; 128 Sp. Defense

* Stockpile
* Substitute
* Recover
* Confuse Ray

The EVs here are fine too, although an Impish nature would probably make more sense since it doesn't lower Speed.

The Cleric:
Clefable @ Flame Orb
Magic Guard Impish nature
168 HP; 180 Defense; 160 Sp. Defense

* Trick
* Aromatherapy
* Protect
* Wish

Better EVs here are 252 HP/216 Defense/40 Special Defense with a Calm nature. Clefable takes both Physical and Special hits better than with the previous spread.

The Reaper:
Giratina @ Leftovers
Pressure Sassy nature
240 HP; 252 Defense; 16 Sp. Attack

* Calm Mind
* Rest
* Dragon Pulse
* Will-O-Wisp

Instead of 252 Defense EVs and a Sassy nature, you can use 144 Defense EVs and 92 Special Defense EVs with a Bold nature (Relaxed if you wanted to be slow for some reason) to get the same stats, and 12 EVs left over.

Good luck!

 

[Airfoil]

Thanx for both of your help.

Drcossack:
Thank you for the links. I'll check them out later today.
I'm probably not going to run this team, seeing as how the Japanese are abusing the Kyogre+Palkia, Trick Room Dialga+Follow Me Clefable, and Abamasnow+Mewtwo combination. If the Japanese are enjoying the Ubers, the US will too. It kind of annoys me that so many people jump straight to using Ubers before considering any of the other 970 Pokemon.

I have found out that playing PBR around 1 in the morning guarantees a battle with competitive players, but I can't stay up that late or else I'll be falling asleep all the next day.

Iliketurkeybacon:
First of all, I'm not a big fan of turkey bacon.....
Second of all, I was working on Giratina, and I'm just going to shift around his EVs untill I find something that works. I'll go ahead and try your spread next time I go on Shoddy. Giratina's not my best wall, and so far, even Dusknoir was doing a better job. I was ready to cry when he lost 80 % of his health from a Seed Flare coming off Sky Shaymin on Shoddy. After 2 CM, he lost a lot more health than any of my other Pokemon. He couldn't even break Shaymin's sub. Even Hippowdon lost less health. I am making such a big deal from it because if he can't take a 120 base power move from a Pokemon with 130 Sp Attack stat, how will he hold up against a Super Effective Roar of Time, or Draco Meteor from Dialga with 150 base Sp Attack.

I mainly focus on my Pokemon's weaknesses when comes to EVing them. While Hippowdon has better defensive abilities, when someone sees him, their first reaction is to send out Vaporeon, Milotic, or Kyogre.

The natures aren't too big a deal, because Giratina isn't trying to outrun something any way, so Calm, Sassy, it really doesn't matter on a Pokemon like Giraitna wall.

 

[Airfoil]

Because this team was meant for 4 on 4 doubles, I didn't bother with entry hazards. There won't be too much switching.
Entry hazards are ment more for singles than doubles.

 

[Airfoil]

I am really getting annoyed. I have watched about 10-15 videos from Skarmblis, and all I see is Kyogre, Palkia, and Mewtwo. I knew this would happened if they let in Ubers. Nobody looks at the other Pokemon when they can simply Water Spout and Spacial Rend everything.

 

[lordkira]

I am really getting annoyed. I have watched about 10-15 videos from Skarmblis, and all I see is Kyogre, Palkia, and Mewtwo. I knew this would happened if they let in Ubers. Nobody looks at the other Pokemon when they can simply Water Spout and Spacial Rend everything.

It was to be expected.
So far the most seen pokemons imo (at least in regions of japan and korea) are Kyogre, Palkia, Groudon, Dialga, Rayquaza (well top 5...king of in order I guess...kinda of)...

As for your team, I understand you are trying to go stallish style on your team but in double battles, esp a meta where two "UBERS" are allowed per team, it will pretty much never work. Are you sure you would like to maintain the stallish aspect of your current team?

 

[Airfoil]

I've gotten to the point where I really don't want to use this team outside of PBR random battles. I am getting tired of people telling me to not bother with this team.

After 3 stockpiles, their defenses go through the roof....but...

I also can't rely on SS with so many Kyogre (and the Groudon there to counter Kyogre). The weather is constantly juggled around. Both players are used to changing weather constantly to keep the opponent from benefiting from it. I'll probably run into too many problems with the Abomasnow/Mewtwo combination slamming me with Blizzard, and none of my Pokemon will have time to Stockpile with Kyogre on every other team.

I knew people would take advantage of Ubers, but I didn't expect it to go so far.
*I think Metagross and Abamasnow are used more than Rayquaza. I have yet to see anyone use Ray.