The Current ShoddyBattle Metagame

[SynysterCola]

I think one of the reasons many teams are easily stallable is that people have taken "DP is very offensive based" too far, by assuming they can simply win by brute force and nothing else.

I agree with that statement. When I first started I was all about power, power, and more power. Boy did Cressy screw me over!

MixApe has helped me a lot. Also Choice Specs Gengar seems to help out, as I KO many weakened Cressys with a Choice Spec-ed max Special Attack Shadow Ball.

EDIT: Calcs - Max HP/Min Sp. Def Cressey
Damage: 350 - 412 HP (78.83-92.79%). HP: 444

I admit I use a Swampert lead due to it's ability to not get OHKOed by anything not related to grass. I'm not that dumb to even consider leaving it with anything that could be running HP Grass. Hence why I have two decent counters to help Swampert: My Tangela provides a defensive wall while taking out other Swamperts, Hippowdons, T-Tars, etc. I also pack HP Fire for Skarm and Levitating Brozongs. Togekiss is my special sponge and just murders some people (I think I went on a 3 KO streak with Togekiss running Air Slash/T-Wave/Body Slam/Wish).

 

[Saturn]

Most leads I see these days are Gengars. Before, I used Pursuit, and got FB'd. Now, I switch Weavile out and roll my eyes. It's so... common. And darn it, Gyarados is annoying. I like Taunting Skarmories with my T-Tar, usually cancelling that Spikes/Whirlwind tactic. I usually switch into Blissey and that either stays for Taunt or switches in Skarm/other wall. Works beautiful.
I usually screw over Trik Room teams, which are all over the place. I can't believe they're so common. And I just killed some Darkrai user who doesn't knolw how to play competitively.

 

[Stallion]

I agree with Surgo, even if I've never seen him on shoddy before (whats your username??)

Anyway I rarely get stalled out, because in my teams I tend to run stuff like Life Orb Mence, which is godly and hits everything hard, and Heracross, who has pretty much two safe switch ins (I don't really count Dusknoir, but it can work).

I also believe that one of the greatest assets to me on shoddy has been the element of suprise. I tend to run some BL/UU pokes in my teams which still work extremely well, but the opponent has never seen before (Heck, I have a whole team like this with a 95 % win/loss record).

For example, on my current test team I run Frosslass with Spikes and Destiny Bond with Focus Sash, and I believe it has gotten me a kill in every match barring one, and in that one it still set up two layers of Spikes. I use Destiny Bond to stop rampaging sweepers who could ruin me (if they're faster, I use Destiny Bond on the turn Focus Sash activates to get a kill or force a switch, and if theyre slower I set up Spikes and then Destiny Bond), and somehow nobody sees it coming.

 

[Irizz]

I've never really used Hera(another OU I never tried out) because it usually runs choice items which hamper his flexibility but gives him the extra kick to either KO or outspeed his foes. LOSala is destroyed by a defensive pokemon who is faster than Sala and can set up Subs.

 

[Stallion]

I've never really used Hera(another OU I never tried out) because it usually runs choice items which hamper his flexibility but gives him the extra kick to either KO or outspeed his foes. LOSala is destroyed by a defensive pokemon who is faster than Sala and can set up Subs.

First of all Salamence is meant to switch in on something it poses a threat to. With Spikes support (which I run), NOTHING isn't 2HKOed by Salamence if it uses Draco Meteor on the switch, except maybe Heatproof Bronzong (lol) or steels with really high special defence (not Probopass or Bastiodon though, who are owned by Brick Break), which is what Fire Blast is for. If the user is smart, the only way it can be killed is through a revenge kill.

Secondly, there are no really defensive pokemon faster then Sala, and if there are any that are remotely defensive, then they still probably arent defensive enough to avoid being 2HKOed.

I do agree with your Heracross statement though, but if it is flexibility you're worried about, then you could even try a Swords Dance set.

 

[iruchii]

I like to lead on Shoddy with a forgotten/UU Pokémon that no one knows how to deal with. Otherwise, I just lead with Mr. Hippowdon to set up some SR.

But I have seen loads and loads of Swamperts there. Not that they usually give me problems, but it's becoming quite annoying. In fact, I haven't seen many creative teams in Shoddy at all. Props and cheers to everyone who uses a unique moveset.

 

[choop]

Breloom is on every team and is as annoying as fuck

 

[Gmax]

I was trying to build a stall team, but it just wasn't working out for me, because a lot of people I battle used Beautiful Skin on Skarmory, which would come in on my walls and Spike on the switch to Magnezone.

How else can one counter Skarm with a stall team?

 

[Surgo]

Is it immediately threatening you? No, it's not, so why do you feel the need to proactively counter it? Just spin away its spikes and let the rest of their team get worn down. You have the wrong attitude to use a stall team.

 

[iruchii]

I was trying to build a stall team, but it just wasn't working out for me, because a lot of people I battle used Beautiful Skin on Skarmory, which would come in on my walls and Spike on the switch to Magnezone.

How else can one counter Skarm with a stall team?

Hm, that's a question I'd like to know the answer, too.

My best guess would be hitting it with Knock Off, so Shed Skin wouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

[Brawley]

Out of all my teams I have made my stall team is doing the best I currently have like a 35-3 record with it. Anyways Skarmory has never really been a problem for me.

 

[Irizz]

TAUNT keeps the Skarmory away

 

[Jake the boy]

Breloom is on every team and is as annoying as fuck

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Carny]

I find baton pass leads work exceptionally well on any opposing lead that doesn't have hypnosis or some such move. They'll usually scout to see what you're up to or switch immediately so you can stat up and then baton pass after the switch.

 

[comoesa]

I'd like to discuss the current ShoddyBattle Metagame that is going on. In the past few battles, it seems like "Set-up" leads are very very common. What I mean is a Lead who has some sort of set-up.

Most Swampert leads have Stealth rocks. Bronzong does nothing but set-up with Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Trick Room or some weather effect. Both Gyarados and T-Tar leads tends to Dragon Dance / Taunt. Gengars have hypnosis and the occasional Crobat has obviously... hypnosis. Ninjask also makes the occasional appearance.

I'd think that this is the cause of the highly offensive leads that used to occur. All the above leads can take a hit from what used to be old leads like Weavile, and setting up while the opponent either switches out or does little damage.

I'm testing a few anti-lead pokemon to take advantage of this... but first, does anyone else share my experience? I wouldn't say offensive leads are dead, just in the current metagame, "setup" leads tend to break the offensive lead. Playing rock when everyone is playing paper is a bad idea.

Well i think gallade is a great counter lead to some of these...

 

[General Tso]

Most Cressys run Moonlight so now it's hard as heck to take down and when it Thunderwaves your Weavile, you're pretty much screwed =/ Of course this is just my team with Weavile being my only decent counter.

Cradily is annoying as heck in Sandstorm, it outstalled my 3 walls with Barrier/Toxic/Recover/Rockslide =/

 

[WAAASSSUUUPP]

Well, unless Cressy carries Psychic, Mixape can stay in and Nasty Plot twice before killing it with Flamethrower, or just Nasty Plot once and use Fire Blast twice, assuming Cressy doesn't have Psychic, which I've seen it hasn't. Most I've seen are like:

Cressy@Leftovers
Ice Beam
Charge Beam
Moonlight
Thunderwave

Wouldn't Thuunderwave fuck you up anyways. Sure, you kill Cressy, but then you can't even sweep the rest of the team (yes, I'm aware Infernape isn't the only pokemon on the team). Cressy can also run reflect, which could fuck you up as well.

 

[General Tso]

Reflect for what? Unless you mean Light Screen?

 

[Dragontamer]

Wouldn't Thuunderwave fuck you up anyways. Sure, you kill Cressy, but then you can't even sweep the rest of the team (yes, I'm aware Infernape isn't the only pokemon on the team). Cressy can also run reflect, which could fuck you up as well.

A T-waved pokemon vs a fainted one.

I'd say thats an advantage. But if you insist, Nasty Plot + Infernape keeps it a very potent force. Infernape still has the Nasty Plot, and you can't Phaze it because phazing always goes last.

Anyway, MixApe is special and physical. Unless Cressy does both LightScreen AND Reflect, MixApe will hit through on the other side.

 

[Rezileen]

Wow, I made a stall team this morning and it's working great so far. I've only lost twice today out of a dozen battles.

Also, I agree with the abundance of Moonlight Cresselia lately. All the more reason to use a sandstorm/stall team.

And Dragontamer, MixApe uses Close Combat as its physical move. Cresselia resists CC.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

A T-waved pokemon vs a fainted one.

I'd say thats an advantage. But if you insist, Nasty Plot + Infernape keeps it a very potent force. Infernape still has the Nasty Plot, and you can't Phaze it because phazing always goes last.

Anyway, MixApe is special and physical. Unless Cressy does both LightScreen AND Reflect, MixApe will hit through on the other side.

A better way of saying it would be a T-Waved Infernape vs a fainted Pokemon.

A Paralyzed Infernape is a dead one, as any slow old Joe that carries a SE attack (not that rare) will KO it.

I've never lost using a Stall team yet, but it's boring enough to make you weep. Stall still prevails over offense then generation imo, what with great Pokemon like Hippowdon and Cresselia. I still tend to like offense more (or a balance), but that's just because I'm tired of 60+ turn battles; I had enough of those in ADV.

 

[General Tso]

I am getting sick and tired of all these Focus Sash DD Salamences I run into.

 

[comoesa]

lol to all the people who said this was going to be a super offensive gen stall teams rule the day on shoddy battle.

 

[DEL337ED]

I think the meta-game will change - it will become more strategy-oriented. Right now people fall into one of three camps:

A) They throw together a bunch of OU sweepers, then skarm/bliss/cressy for defensive purposes, or...

B) They try and plan a team around a central strategy. I've seen some very good sandstorm / sunny day / rain dance and even Hail (ice) teams on Shoddy. Also, trick room / set up teams can do very well (set up doesn't just mean "lol i run ninjask lol").

EDIT - and...

C) Stall teams. Some people do them really well, others just get taunted in oblivion (or worn down and swept by the late game - I've seen stall teams up 6-1 only to get swept by MixApe).

Most starters still seem to be Gyarados, Weavile, Swampert, Bronzong, Tyranitar, Ninjask, random baton passer, and Salamence. Having a strong special sweeper seems to counter these leads - phazers also work well in my experience.

 

[Surgo]

Stall teams don't fall into B? And you'd have to be pretty dumb to lose to a mixed Infernape like that...just hit it before it can set up, come on :\

There are good stallbreakers...choice specs Lucario is excellent. Substitute/Focus Punch/Ice Beam Tyranitar will destroy almost everything on a stall team (add Crunch or Dark Pulse for Cresselia). But Infernape has to be one of the more inferior ones, because your opponent will take great pains to not let it get set up if they are intelligent. Or use Psychic Cresselia.