Pokémon The Eternal Flower (or: Floette-E)

[Sergeant Spooky]

You people are acting like Floette-E is going to be some kind of god with Light of Ruin. You are literally limited for only 2-3 attacks with Light of Ruin. Sure, Light of Ruin hits like a truck, but why use it when you can just use a wall-breaker that is just as strong like Mega Charizard Y or Exploud? If you hit an Excadrill, you are losing almost all your HP for the 2HKO. Same with a Momswine, Mandibuzz, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, Hippowdom, Krookodile Reuniclus, Entei, Conkeldurr, Azumarill, Manaphy, Jellicent, Scizor, Chansey, Blissey (they can purposely come in to make Floette lose HP then recover any damage later on) Gyarados, Heatran, Goodra, Landorus-T, etc. I can keep going with this list if I want. Even if you are using it against something with horrible HP like Charizard is going to nab half of your HP. Light of Ruin is really powerful, but lots of common threats resist Fairy-type in OU like Mega Venusaur, Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile, Skarmory, Aegislash, Bisharp, Heatran, and Jirachi. Floette-E has to deal with its mediocre 92 Base Spe meaning that lots of the metagame outpaces it and not resisting any common priority moves along with its low Defense isn't really taking it anywhere. Sure, there's Mach Punch, but Conkeldurr can't beat a Fairy any day regardless and face it, Breloom sucks this generation with less Technician abusing moves thanks to all those buffs. Bisharp beats Floette anyways and with a boost, it takes a ridiculous amount of damage from +2 LO Sucker Punch. That physical Defense isn't helping its switch-ins to Dragon-types either since +2 Garchomp EQ OHKOes, Salamence at +1 EQ smokes it too, and even LO Psyshock from Latios almost OHKOes it. I also want you take in consideration that Light of Ruin makes it impossible to live priority at all since and it only has 90% accuracy. Seriously, you're giving something that already has 50% recoil issues an accuracy flaw: doesn't sound that good to me. You can compund Moonblast with Light of Ruin, but Moonblast doesn't really hit that hard. It doesn't even have good coverage to complement LOR -__-. The eternal flower isn't eternal with that recoil move (get a dictionary Gamefreak).

Stop acting like Light of Ruin is going to make it an A Rank threat, it's not: maybe B. Floette-E should not be focused on SPAMming Light of Ruin. It should alternate between Moonblast and LOR, but even then, I'm not really liking Floette-E. Floette-E should be used as an alternative wall-breaker, but it's seriously outclassed. Re-quoting Lee: "Sorry, not worth it. 33% recoil or bust", and right now, I can see it being 50% recoil.

All of this. If I wanted a kamikaze wall breaker I'd use Darmanitan or Staraptor, who are both faster and both have nuclear STABs comparable to LoR but take less recoil (and have more HP anyway.) And if you're not nuking things with LoR you pretty much just have Gardevoir with 12 more points in base speed, but without STAB Psychic/Psyshock, Focus Blast and Shadowball, or even Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond and the other support moves that make Gardevoir harder to play around.

And while Mega Garde takes up the mega slot, it's faster and Pixilate Hyper Voice hits way harder than Floette-E's Moonblast, unless you're using Specs. And it still has better coverage and support moves.

 

[sidakarya]

Bisharp actually doesn't resist Fairy because of its Dark-type. (It also gets OHKO'd by Moonblast anyway, so you can't switch it in...)

Though, I would have to agree, that LoR is not to be abused too lightly. If you see a bulky Steel-type on the other team or conversely, something you can KO with an SE attack anyway, you should not be blindly spamming LoR and martyring yourself like a suicide bomber - HP Fire is just enough to deal with most Steels anyway.

• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 244-289 (73 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 260-307 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 364-432 (105.8 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 322-385 (91.4 - 109.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 244-289 (87.4 - 103.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 190-226 (62.5 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And so on. All Fighting- and Dark-types are 2HKO'd at worst by Moonblast, probably OHKO'd, so if you're about to target one, you should use Moonblast instead of LoR.

• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 408-484 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 286-339 (101.7 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 468-554 (144.8 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 468-554 (144.8 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Life Orb Floette-E Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 289-343 (71.5 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

In honesty, right now I see its best role as a fast revenge-killer with Scarf, rather than a nuke with a flower attached to it. Scarf Floette-E is pretty much the fastest fairy you can ask for, a niche not occupied by anything at all. M-Gardevoir obviously can't go above the 100 base speed tier, and why would you slap a scarf on any other fairy than Togekiss. LoR will still hit insanely hard even without the boosting item, and you're actually outspeeding things (anything slower than Scarf Lando-T, which is really not bad at all), meaning you're not easy pickings for anything above base 90 speed.

The poor coverage is a letdown, I have to admit. I really want this thing to get the Earth Power tutor in Z.

 

[Mirrored Distortion]

Talonflame says hi.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Floette: 217-256 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (84.3 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Talonflame says hi.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Floette: 217-256 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (84.3 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Well shit I'd better stop using Pinsir.

We know it's frail.

 

[Gehenna]

like many people have said here, i don't consider light of ruin worth it at all on any set that isn't scarfed. i think a cm set of cm/moonblast/hp fire/psychic will be its best set.

 

[TheTraininator]

like many people have said here, i don't consider light of ruin worth it at all on any set that isn't scarfed. i think a cm set of cm/moonblast/hp fire/psychic will be its best set.

On Calm Mind, no, LoR isn't worth it, but Scarf and especially Specs should run it. Just think of it as the kamikaze button, if you need something dead no matter what. It can afford to run LoR and Moonblast because its coverage movepool is shit.

 

[Mean Mr Snorlax]

As many people have already said, LoR is really most useful when you don't use it. The haunting possibility of your switch-in getting smashed to bits by an LoR will force your opponents hand oftentimes. When people fight Floette-E, they will immediately think of LoR, and little else. Say, you bring your Floette-E in on your opponent's Rotom-W. They can't stay in, because LoR will OHKO (we're assuming SR is up here). They can't go to their Landorus-T, because LoR (or even Moonblast) OHKOs. Really, the only thing I CAN think of that can safely switch in on Floette-E is Air Balloon Sdef Heatran.

Also, Floette-E would work as a perfect partner for Talonflame. It Decimates Landorus-T and Tyranitar with Moonblast, Rotom-W with LoR, and Heatran with Hidden Power Ground. Not even Staraptor can beat them ALL in one game. Another mon Floette-E is a great partner for is Azumarill, because Azu hates Rotom-W and Mvenu.

Honestly, I think if Floette-E gets in safely, it can punch huge holes just off the threat of LoR.

As for Floette-E's speed, when you slap a choice scarf on it it outspeeds Scarf Landorus-T and everything slower, which is more than enough speed to make 2 KOs an easily achievable feat by spamming LoR alone.

 

[Impractical]

Talonflame says hi.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Floette: 217-256 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (84.3 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette: 297-349 (102.7 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

"OH MY GOD THING KILLS THING IT'S BAD"

yes we know

 

[G-Von]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but the recoil of Light of Ruin is equal to that of the other normal recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc. and not of Head Smash, which is in the OP. Here is video evidence of the description of the move:

And here is the bulbapedia description of Flare Blitz: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flare_Blitz

 

[Strykeypoo]

While everyone is posting calcs that will probably rarely if ever actually occur and don't really contribute towards anything meaningful:

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 214-253 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flabebe Light of Ruin vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 162-191 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Get rekt flower fairy.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but the recoil of Light of Ruin is equal to that of the other normal recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc. and not of Head Smash, which is in the OP. Here is video evidence of the description of the move:

And here is the bulbapedia description of Flare Blitz: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flare_Blitz

You're right that the quite a lot is the same, but I'm pretty sure people have done calcs to show it takes away 1/2 of damage done. I'd like to believe you, but I'm not sure.

 

[thatgirl]

The in-game description for Head Smash (taken from bulbapedia) is, "The user attacks the target with a hazardous, full-power headbutt. This also damages the user terribly." So I'm inclined to believe the recoil is 33% and not 50%.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but the recoil of Light of Ruin is equal to that of the other normal recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc. and not of Head Smash, which is in the OP. Here is video evidence of the description of the move:

And here is the bulbapedia description of Flare Blitz: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flare_Blitz

Also, is that your video? If so, what was Floette's before and after HP?

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

While everyone is posting calcs that will probably rarely if ever actually occur and don't really contribute towards anything meaningful:

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 214-253 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flabebe Light of Ruin vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 162-191 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Get rekt flower fairy.

Both of those are 2HKOs anyway and Y-zard's special bulk is a lot higher (78/78 vs 78/115.)

252 SpA Choice Specs Floette Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 333-393 (82.4 - 97.2%)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 351-413 (86.8 - 102.2%)
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 403-475 (99.7 - 117.5%)

So LO only just barely wins out while band does a lot more.

 

[Xozzen]

I have another video which very clearly shows that the recoil is a lot stronger than the usual.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I have another video which very clearly shows that the recoil is a lot stronger than the usual.

Yeah, you're right. Regarding the Shelmet damage, if it were 50% recoil it would've left you at around 75 HP, and it left you at 77. Oh well. :(

 

[G-Von]

WHAT DA FUUUUUUUUUUCK. Why would GameFreak describe it as a 1/3 recoil move and make it a 1/2 recoil move? Such BS....whatever.

Anyways, Since its special movepool is pretty barren, would Energy Ball even be worth a mention?

 

[Albacore]

WHAT DA FUUUUUUUUUUCK. Why would GameFreak describe it as a 1/3 recoil move and make it a 1/2 recoil move? Such BS....whatever.

These are the same people that didn't give Power Gem to Diancie, so I wouldn't expect all that much sense from them.

 

[sidakarya]

These are the same people that didn't give Power Gem to Diancie, so I wouldn't expect all that much sense from them.

And then putting up a screenshot of that move on the official website, that it doesn't learn... Whaaaa?

For the record, the flavourtext of the 33% recoil moves are:

Double-Edge: "A reckless, life-risking tackle. It also damages the user by a fairly large amount, however. "
Brave Bird: "The user tucks in its wings and charges from a low altitude. The user also takes serious damage."
Flare Blitz: "The user cloaks itself in fire and charges at the target. The user sustains serious damage and may leave the target burned."
Volt Tackle: "The user electrifies itself, then charges. It causes considerable damage to the user and may leave the target with paralysis."

Compare with the flavourtext of Light of Ruin: "Drawing power from the Eternal Flower, the user fires a powerful beam of light. This also damages the user quite a lot."
And Head Smash:"The user attacks the target with a hazardous, full-power headbutt. The user also takes terrible damage."

I suppose, since all of the flavourtexts are somewhat different to each other, you could interpret "quite a lot of damage" as either 33% or 50%. The 33%-recoil moves aren't described with consistent wording, after all (you could say, "fairly large amount of damage" is similar, but Double-Edge has 33% recoil). From the looks of the video though, LoR appears to be much closer to 50%.

Also, Energy Ball isn't of much use. Grass is shitty coverage outside of hitting bulky waters, which LoR will outdamage anyway.

• 252+ SpA Floette-E Light of Ruin vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Floette-E Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Albacore]

I honestly think "serious" and "considerable" refer to more than "quite a lot", but maybe that's just me.

 

[Age of Kings]

My earlier posts were made under the assumption that it was 33% recoil - that is definitely a shame. Still, I don't think Floette is useless due to its decent stat distribution and hardhitting Fairies being few and far between (this is entire post is running under the assumption that this will be in UU - it's far too slow and fragile for OU). Unboosted, only Mega Gardevoir, Xerneas (banned), and regular Gardevoir (which Floette outclasses completely BST-wise) tie or exceed it on the special side. Yes, you'd almost always rather run Mega Gardevoir, but you could run another Mega and still have a hardhitting Fairy. The primary differences are Mega Gardevoir's better speed tier and STAB Psyshock, meaning it is somewhat more difficult to wall. imo knowing this, LoR should used as a spiritual successor to Explosion as it was used before gen 5 - you can use it to kamikaze an enemy Pokemon giving the rest of your team trouble or deal as much damage as possible when you know it's going down.

WTB balance team at GameFreak who aren't the same people who come up with designs for cutemons.

 

[TheTraininator]

Serebii confirmed a while back that the recoil is 50%, I don't know why we're still speculating about it.

 

[NoahStar]

My earlier posts were made under the assumption that it was 33% recoil - that is definitely a shame. Still, I don't think Floette is useless due to its decent stat distribution and hardhitting Fairies being few and far between (this is entire post is running under the assumption that this will be in UU - it's far too slow and fragile for OU). Unboosted, only Mega Gardevoir, Xerneas (banned), and regular Gardevoir (which Floette outclasses completely BST-wise) tie or exceed it on the special side. Yes, you'd almost always rather run Mega Gardevoir, but you could run another Mega and still have a hardhitting Fairy. The primary differences are Mega Gardevoir's better speed tier and STAB Psyshock, meaning it is somewhat more difficult to wall. imo knowing this, LoR should used as a spiritual successor to Explosion as it was used before gen 5 - you can use it to kamikaze an enemy Pokemon giving the rest of your team trouble or deal as much damage as possible when you know it's going down.

WTB balance team at GameFreak who aren't the same people who come up with designs for cutemons.

Would just like to note that MGardevoir is banned from UU. This would mean that Floette-E could be the hardest hitting special Fairy in the tier.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 178-211 (44 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Floette-E Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Both Gardevoir and Floette-E will have completely different roles, with the former being an awesome revenge killer with a scarf and the latter being used to completely obliterate walls. I'm thinking that we could have a pretty neat duo-type offensive core here similar to gen 4's Mence/Rayquaza or the popular and powerfull MPinsir and Staraptor. Through sheer power, these 2 could plow through their usual checks and put massive holes in teams.

 

[Impractical]

While everyone is posting calcs that will probably rarely if ever actually occur and don't really contribute towards anything meaningful:

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 214-253 (71.8 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Flabebe Light of Ruin vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 162-191 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Get rekt flower fairy.

But darmanitan is using flare blitz on mega charizard Y, and mega charizard Y has drought which powers up fire moves
Darmanitan is obviously going to outdamage floette-eternal in sun.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^Darmanitan is going to out damage anyway... Sheer Force +

But darmanitan is using flare blitz on mega charizard Y, and mega charizard Y has drought which powers up fire moves
Darmanitan is obviously going to outdamage floette-eternal in sun.

Sheer Force + higher base ATK (than her SpA) means it's going to be hitting harder regardless... like, a LOT harder...