The Forgotten Pastime: An OU RMT

[Articanus]

Intro

So before I get into the actual team, I'd like to give my thanks to this user, kirbyraeg, on SWF.http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=135199

What had happened exactly is that I was browsing the Poke Center over there when I came across a RMT he posted. Looking into it, he had the ingenious idea of using SubPassing Celebi to threatening sweepers. While I think that his team could use some improving on, I was intrigued by the idea of luring CB Scizor in and bringing in pokemon that would withstand the blow, allowing it to attempt to go for a sweep. He was using CB Gyarados primarily for this, since otherwise they do have nice typing synergy, along with a Specs Heatran. I thought this was, honestly, a waste, as I feel a pokemon with the chance to survive ANY attack for free should be completely overwhelming, especially with the amount of pokemon in OU that can use that Sub to its fullest potential.


Team Building Process

I knew that Celebi, thanks to a combination of speed as well as typing and Scizor lure-ness, would be the primary Sub-Passer for the team. 101 Substitutes are very nice for general bulk, as they allow me to properly beat blissey with a Leech Seed set. Using Psychic as the last move, I'm not vulnerable to the majority of Taunt users(when's the last time Tyranitar's used Taunt?), and it allows me to use it as an extra Lucario-check.

With the recent threads for "Salamence as a suspect" coming up, I began to understand fully how to manipulate the beast and what exactly is used to be able to check it. Well, imagine if it gets behind a Sub now: yes, a very scary thought indeed. Celebi and Salamence have overall good typing synergy, so I thought it would be a very proper match. I decided to go with a Mixed Set for immediate power, using both STAB moves along with Earthquake and Fire Blast for perfect coverage. After some calculations, I began to see that 201 Defense was needed for Mence to survive a Pursuit(apparently Scizor's most powerful attack that isn't BP versus it). This required a mere 20 EVs, meaning the extra 236 could be poured into Sp. Attack to maximize the damage output on Draco Meteor. Outrage already 2HKOed Blissey with no investment, so I saw no point in moving any EVs over there. Earthquake is primarily for Heatran, so I don't have any reason to put anything there.

... ok I'll admit, the next partner is plain obvious. Heatran synergizes perfectly at this point, especially with the SubPassing Celebi. I didn't want a variant beaten by Blissey, as well as hold its own against the majority of teams. In the end I said "screw it" and when with a surprisingly-effective LO Rest-Talk set. This enabled it to last long thanks to its recovery, as well as hit hard to be a threat to stall teams and yet not lose to Blissey. Against Bulky-offense it can Lava Plume everywhere for a random burn against opposing Mence, Gyarados, Flygon, or Tyranitar.

I personally like having a Water/Fire/Grass core. It's very interesting, compared to the usual Steel+Dragon(though I'm doing that too ._.'). Therefore, I've decided on Vaporeon to fill in the function as the team's "bulky water". She can Wish to heal up teammates. Plus I enjoyed Chou's little rant about how she's a bitch to any team that doesn't use stat-uppers. =D

So now we have the team's primary core. As of now, they will probably be the most common pokemon in the battle and work together to take down the opposing team. Well, that's good and all, but one is SR weak, two don't like Toxic Spikes, and three are hit by Spikes. Hence, I felt that I needed a spinner. Residual damage works very well for Salamence, particularly SR. Foretress fit the bill perfectly, being able to set up every type of resiudal damage as well as rapid spin. I decided against Toxic Spikes so as to not terribly conflict with Heatran's Burn.

Finally, I thought I would need a spin blocker. I like Rotom-w better than every other one, due to his ability to take on Tyranitar thanks to a combination of Hydro Pump and WIll-o-Wisp. It would also be my back-up counter to Gyarados with Thunderbolt. Light Screen ensured that Forretress could set up properly, as well as securing Vaporeon and Celebi for passing stuff.

Final Product

(Images from arkeis.com)

@ Leftovers *Suzuna
Sturdy: Impish
252 HP, 24 Defense, 232 Sp. Defense
Payback
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Spikes

Forretress is here to start the battle out for us. Unfortunately, there are many starters out there who do a better job than he does. He's just unfortunate to be the only thing on the team that can actually do something in this spot.

The set is simple enough: set up entry hazards to help get momentum going later in the match. Payback is for Rotom-a, as well as actually needing some kind of attack. Combined with Rapid Spin, stall teams are hard-pressed to keep all of their hazards up.

I love passing this thing Subs from Celebi: it's basically free hazards/ Rapid Spin/ Payback on something trying to block rapid spin. With Forretress's bulk, as well as Dark, Posion, Bug, and Ice resistances, attacks aimed at Celebi will bounce off Forretress if they aren't backed by tremendous power. Or it's a fire attack, but we have others to take those! xD

The EVs are pretty straightforward: I maxed HP for the most survivability. After that I poured EVs into defense until they hit the amount of HP I had. For some reason, it seems to work. Everything else was poured into Sp. Defense.

@ Leftovers *The Kid
Natural Cure: Timid
252 HP, 28 Defense, 228 Speed
Psychic
Substitute
Baton Pass
Leech Seed

Obviously, this is the focus of the entire team: it uses a tactic that is pretty much forgotten in DPPtHGSS. SubPassing can be very very dangerous when properly utilized, however. With monsters in the wings to take advantage of the substitute, as well as the health from Leech Seed, you can be sure that this can decide games in a turn.

Psychic helps cover threats that are immune to Leech Seed. It is also better than GK at checking faster threats like Lucario and Salamence(last-resort). Substitute combines perfectly with Leech Seed and Baton Pass, as well as being the complete point for the team itself.

With a Sub up, Celebi has a number(errr, 3) of choices. It can simply Baton Pass it to a teammate that can take greater advantage of the sub, such as against a scizor. You can Leech Seed against foes like Blissey, whom you can be sure you can stall till the point where they are forced to Recover, allowing you to go to a teammate that can take better advantage of her. Finally, you can attack. This is especially useful against pokemon who come in not expecting the move, such as Gengar, Machamp, and Salamence to name a few.

HP is maximized to create 101 Substitutes, allowing them to survive a multitude of attacks(Gliscor Ice Fang, surprisingly) as well as a single Seismic Toss. I picked a speed number to beat Gliscor so I can come in on an EQ, set up a Sub as they Taunt(usually), allowing me to Psychic spam against the opposing team. depending on what they bring in I might switch, but usually I'm fine.

@ Life Orb *Hiruma
Flash Fire: Modest
224 HP, 72 Spd, 56 SAtk, 156 SDef
Lava Plume
Earth Power
Rest
Sleep Talk

Synergizes perfectly with Celebi's weaknesses. It can also hold its own very well with overall bulkiness, power, and RestTalk. A Special Tank with a Burn-inducing move can be very annoying, indeed.

Attacks are pretty straight-forward: Lava Plume is for STAB, as well as inducing burns for a lot of Heatran's common switch-ins. It also hits a lot harder than people expect. Earth Power is used to compliment Lava Plume. Rest+Sleep Talk allow for survivability, as well as not leaving it as complete set-up bait when drowsing.

With a Substitute up, this thing is troublesome. If I can force the switch and get in two hits, I have a 51% chance of inducing burn. I strip off around 31% from Gyarados already. Combine that with SR and the chance to burn it: it won't last. Also helps me to take down Heatran who try and Fire Blast Celebi(btw, thanks for the Flash Fire boost!).

The HP EVs are the most I could give him and round down LO recoil. Speed beats majority of bulky waters, including 4 Speed Suicune. I don't understand the Sp. Attack, but it was recommended in the analysis and it works so whatever. The rest was poured into Sp. Defense for bulk.

@ Leftovers *Mamori
Water Absorb: Bold
188 HP, 252 Defense, 68 Sp. Defense
Surf
Wish
Protect
Roar

The bane of wall-breakers everywhere: you can't help bu shudder when this bitch gets in. If you haven't stat-up yet, she's going to phaze the fuck out of your team, causing residual damage as well as revealing crucial team members.

Surf is for STAB. God that sounds so boring. Wish lets me heal up Vaporeon as well as other team members. Protect makes this more consistent. Roar phazes, stopping stat-uppers(especially helpful versus HO teams), as well as piling on Spikes and SR damage.

Vaporeon is a lot less useful behind a sub than her monster teammates: she can wish freely without worry or phaze like crazy. Never really gets to her, tbh.

The EVs are ripped from the smogon spread, with the last 68 going into Sp. Defense. Yeah, no originality I know, shut it!

@ Life Orb *Agon
Intimidate: Naive
20 Defense, 252 Speed, 236 SAtk
Draco Meteor
Outrage
Fire Blast
Earthquake

Part two of the most broken combination in history...except not really! If this gets behind a Sub, your opponent has three choices: sacrificing a pokemon, pissing his pants, or quitting the match. The last two can be done in together in any order, really. MixMence rapes even without a substitute, as it can easily just demolish teams with high-powered dual STAB, as well as two moves that compliment perfectly to gain coverage versus the only type that resists his STAB: steels.

Draco Meteor and Outrage work together like Luigi's Tap a -> up B: it works together to set up and finish off any non-resisting switch-in in a single swoop. Fire Blast hits every steel except Heatran, which is neutered by Earthquake.

Heh.... if this gets behind I sub, I begin by jizzing my pants. =3
But seriously, no need to predict: just attack with the proper move. EVENTUALLY, your opponent will have to sacrifice something. Normally I would never used Outrage on MixMence, but just the idea of being able to use it safely behind a sub makes me all giddy inside.

Max Speed EVs means it can try to at least tie with every other Salamence out there, as well as base 100's in general. 20 Defense EVs with a neutral nature means that I take a maximum of 100 damage from a CB Pursuit from Scizor, essentially allowing me to come in from Celebi directly to this guy to kill it. Rest was poured into Sp. Attack for more power on Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, as Outrage and Earthquake are used on very specific threats that need no investment to be overcome.

@ Leftovers *Ishimaru
Levitate: Bold
252 HP, 40 Defense, 188 Speed, 28 Sp. Defense
Thunderbolt
Hydro Pump
Will-o-wisp
Light Screen

WoW and Light Screen: an incredibly annoying combination. This guy spin-blocks everything that isn't LO Starmie(what does block RS from that?). With basically a pseudo-dual-screen, this works to not only increase it's longetivity, but its team members as well.

Will-o-wisp and Light Screen work together to protect Rotom-h from almost ANY assault. Hydro Pump covers Tyranitar, while Thunderbolt works well with Hydro Pump both typing-wise, and by having a high base power thanks to STAB(I know they really aren't related in the damage formula).

This thing behind 101 Subs is..... scary, to say the least. Like Vaporeon, this usually doesn't get them. However, when it does it is one helluva beast! His attacking stat allows me to straight-out KO certain opponents, while his bulk allows me to even keep up the sub after burning them/ setting up a light screen/ both.

Max HP for durability, extra point in defense, random speed number, rest in sp. defense.


Threat List (jacked from Team Sugarless GiRL)

Scizor:
-Initial Switch: If it comes in on Mence, Forretress. If it comes into Celebi, Baton Pass to Mence(if I have a sub), or go to Forretress.
-SD Variant: Fuck the day I face a smart user with this. They usually try to set-up on Vaporeon, which just phazes it out.
-CB Variant: Read "initial switch"

Salamence:
-Initial Switch: Vaporeon/ Forretress/ Heatran, in that order.
-MixMence: Vaporeon usually takes it. If I get killed by DM + Outrage, Forrey can set up spikes + RS away SR. Speed tie if it comes down to it.
-DDMence: Lock into Outrage then go to Forrey. ='[
-SpecsMence: Vaporeon just got owned, but not without leaving a -4 Mence in play: go to Celebi and enjoy the free sub.
-CBMence: poor vaporeon. ='[ Forrey can take anything not Fire Fang, and Heatran takes that.

Heatran:
-Initial Switch: Vaporeon/ Salamence
-Lead Shuca/SashTran: Fuck. My. Life. Vaporeon and try to avoid getting exploded on.
-ScarfTran: Vaporeon, Celebi, Heatran, Mence. You know, the core.
-SpecsTran: Read above
-LO Tran: I go to Vaporeon, Protect for HP/ Explosion. If neither show up, I go to rotom because THAT's when the explosion will come.
-SubHeatran: Vaporeon. May get posioned but... shit....

Gyarados:
-Initial Switch: Vaporeon.
-Leftovers DD: Taunt version fuck my shit. I try to Intimidate them at that point and get rotom in safely.
-Life Orb DD: Vaporeon can Wish stall these, and attempt to Roar on a predicted Dragon Dance.
-Restalk: Mence
-Thunder Wave or Substitute: Vaporeon still.

Rotom-A:
-This is why I love Sp. Defensive Heatran. Rotom doesn't do SHIT to it as I pound their team with Lava Plume. Rotom-h is a bit more troublesome, but I can generally play around it.

Latias:
-Initial Switch: "It depends what is out against Latias and what item it has."
-Specs: Bring in resists. Heatran can take trick.
-Scarf: easier to handle than specs. same manner.
-LO Sweeper: Heatran usually can outstall these if they lack Surf: if they lack T-bolt, Vaporeon. If they lack HP Fire, Forretress. If they have all of them, shit.
-CM Latias: usually CM, Dragon Pulse, and recover is guaranteed. HP Fire ones fuck me over as I'm forced to Seed it with Celebi, burn it with Heatran, then continuously attack it and hope for a crit.

Tyranitar:
-Initial Switch: Shit I screwed. Vaporeon/ Forey are my best options generally.
-CBTar: Fuck you SE. Hopefully they try to come in on Celebi's sub, so I can leech seed them.
-LO Tar: Mence kill it please!
-DDTar: Vaporeon.... sorta. Needs to be intimidated first.
-BOAH Variants: Vaporeon can take the T-bolt easily.
-CurseTar: Vaporeon, Heatran, even Celebi.

Metagross:
-Initial Switch: Forrey, Rotom-w. This thing is why I get SR up so often =D
-CBGross: Forretress, Rotom-w
-MixGross: Rotom-w

Lucario:
-Initial Switch: celebi/ Mence/ Rotom-w
-SD: Read above
-Specs: Vaporeon, Celebi/ Heatran

Infernape:
-Initial Switch: Vaporeon
-MixApe: Vaporeon
-Physical Ape: Vaporeon/ Mence+Rotom-h
-ScarfApe: Vaporeon.

Holy fuck this is a long threat list! ._.'
I'll finish it when it isn't like 4:22 am over here

 

[MetaGross66]

Ah, you beat me to it. I was going to do this today with jolteon and gyarados. Regardless, I'll rate. This team does look pretty good, and I'll start with that, however, you have a huge weakness to t-tar, and by the looks of it, you seem to be trying to feign gyro ball on your forretress, but once they see payback it becomes set up for T-tar and your whole team can get swept. For this reason, I'd suggest gyro ball on your forretress just so you can threaten it. Also, maybe remove it for SR. Not sure about this change, but it might work, as rest-talk heatran doesn't seem to be doing much for you, and so you can try shucatran with SR. You can even explode on any threat to the team by freeing up those slots.

 

[King of Kings]

This team looks pretty solid, nice work mate. However i have one nitpick. It started happening often people using lead T-tar ( flmaethrower, stone edge, pursuit, sr or crunch) and in that case we are talking about you having to sacrifice something unless you get in a good prediction and in addition to that mence can only 2 hit ko ttar even after sr is placed and its se will usually ko even after intimidate so I'd say try to invest in some attack or put brick break. hope this helped and yeha your team looks amazing man

 

[jc104]

Very innovative team, but as the above poster says you have a massive Ttar weakness. You have absolutely nothing that resists rock, but I am struggling to find a replacement that would remedy this. Forretress is the only entry hazard user and is the rapid spinner (Donphan being the only rock resist that I am aware of that could fill this role, and I have no idea how he would function as a lead.) You could go for Tentacruel over Vaporeon as the spinner I suppose (no actually you should use Starmie as Sprinkles suggests,) and then you could use a Wish support Jirachi in the lead position, (with stealth rock) but then, despite resisting rock, he still cannot really counter ddTar (and it would open up a large ground weakness). If you put stealth rock on Heatran as suggested above, you could open up more options in this respect. Basically it seems as though you may simply have to sacrifice the general synergy of your team to sort this problem out.

Would it not be a good idea to use a ddMence, using the substitute for a free dragon dance? You could run yache berry or something to protect from priority such that you could get 2 dragon dances and sweep.

Apart from the Ttar weakness, the team is great and very different. Good luck, and I hope it catches on.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

Hi.

We talked on AIM for a bit, and you told me about your weaknesses. I'm here to help with your problems against Tyarnitar, Salamence, and SDape. You said that Forretress is kind of deadweight for your team, since it's set up bait, but at the same time you rely on it a ton. I think a much better option over Forretress would be to run a Bronzong in it's spot. It helps alleviate your DDTar problem, as well as serving as a great check for Salamence. I'd run the standard EV spread, albeit with Heatproof over Levitate, so you won't get toasted by Salamence's Fire Blast or DDTar's Fire Punch, as most suspect Levitate. Bronzong will serve as a great transition Pokemon mid-game as well, being able to come in on Rock type attacks, which currently nothing on your team can. Bronzong can also beat Heatran since you have Heatproof, because a LO Tran destroys your team currently. Rotom doesn't even outspeed Heatran with your current nature. That brings me to my next point. I would run a Timid Nature on Rotom so you outpace Adamant Lucario, so you have another check against them. Salamence takes care of Jolly versions just fine. Oh, go with a moveset of Earthquake, Gyro Ball, Stealth Rock, and Explosion on Bronzong. My next change I want to suggest, since you currently lack a spinner, is to go with an offensive Starmie over Vaporeon. You have a horrible SD Infernape weakness. You told me you can play around it, but it weakens your core so terribly even with resisted hits. Infernape sets up on Forretress easily, being a real threat to your team. Run a set of Rapid Spin, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam. This will allow your team to have a spinner, as well as dealing with stall. Starmie absolutely rips through any stall team without Blissey, so it's important with dealing with it. With these changes you deal with Heatran, Salamence, Infernape, and Tyranitar a lot better. It's a very well-presented team, and very original by the way. I hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

 

[Lady Shinki]

I think that since vap is primarily useful for the team due to its bulk and water absorb that you could combine the roles and go for poliwrath...? It can't wish pass, but it's quite bulky, a rock/dark/ice/bug resist, and can use focus punch/brick break to scare off ttar and hypnosis behind the sub to deal with pokemon it wouldn't be able to hit (like gyara as it switches in). It's generally a weak pokemon, but I think it fits the team idea very well, plus if you EV it defensively enough it can come in on things as powerful as adamant CBtar's crunch (or a +1 ddtar crunch) without breaking the sub. At the very least it would prompt a switch-out, which you could try to status on the switch or just hit with a focus punch. It can also deal with Heatran with either of its stab moves if your own heatran is gone, and run Ice punch to cover dragons.

DDMence would work well too, but there's no real need to set up in the first place when it can fire off an already-powerful special attack against an opponent that will switch out to a check. Especially with spikes and rocks up, his special attacks (with that heavy spatk investment) will be able to torch most counters that would come in to try to stop a setup sweep.

just some ideas, since this was an idea I tried to make work that you made sooooooooo much better :D

 

[Mia [old]]

I think you should consider Occa Berry on Forretress so that you can survive a Fire Blast from a Naive Azelf lead. I also disagree with putting two residual damage moves on one pokemon as it is impractical to pull off and your 4th move can be used better in most instances. Other than that, no changes.

 

[Mister Anbu]

I don't think a spinner is something that should be a priority to you. Vaporeon is the only one that truly hates toxic spikes, as Celebi is just going to switch out. If it happens to be the final Pokemon, Celebi isn't going to out-stall the other team anyways. Forretress could really put you in the hole early, as it is setup fodder for most pokemon. Replace it with a stronger lead and you don't have to worry so much about spikes, etc. because you won't be giving them such a good chance to set up. I don't really like the sleep talk Heatran set myself, so maybe it would serve better as a lead and free up a slot for you. Hell, maybe you could just swap the order on those two and let Forretress come in later in the game if you really want to keep the spinner. Otherwise, I think a Skarmory could fit well on your team as well. It could serve as another phazer or free up Vaporeon's slot for an HP electric/toxic/ice beam/yawn.

 

[Articanus]

Ah, you beat me to it. I was going to do this today with jolteon and gyarados. Regardless, I'll rate. This team does look pretty good, and I'll start with that, however, you have a huge weakness to t-tar, and by the looks of it, you seem to be trying to feign gyro ball on your forretress, but once they see payback it becomes set up for T-tar and your whole team can get swept. For this reason, I'd suggest gyro ball on your forretress just so you can threaten it. Also, maybe remove it for SR. Not sure about this change, but it might work, as rest-talk heatran doesn't seem to be doing much for you, and so you can try shucatran with SR. You can even explode on any threat to the team by freeing up those slots.

My plan for Tyranitar generally is to get in an itimidate, sacrifice something, then phaze with Vaporeon(assuming it's DD). Not the best plan, I know, but at least I've developed one. =/
Gyro Ball seems interesting on Forretress, but I'd have a hard time deciding which move to drop. Payback is nice and all, but I'd guess I'd drop that. Maybe een use Explosion over something else, I dunno. I don't want to use ShucaTran because it tends to be early-game material and I want Heatran for all stages of the game.

This team looks pretty solid, nice work mate. However i have one nitpick. It started happening often people using lead T-tar ( flmaethrower, stone edge, pursuit, sr or crunch) and in that case we are talking about you having to sacrifice something unless you get in a good prediction and in addition to that mence can only 2 hit ko ttar even after sr is placed and its se will usually ko even after intimidate so I'd say try to invest in some attack or put brick break. hope this helped and yeha your team looks amazing man

Good thing is that Heatran beats the variant you listed. Vaporoen also walls it. I'm more afraid of CB versions, in particular.

Very innovative team, but as the above poster says you have a massive Ttar weakness. You have absolutely nothing that resists rock, but I am struggling to find a replacement that would remedy this. Forretress is the only entry hazard user and is the rapid spinner (Donphan being the only rock resist that I am aware of that could fill this role, and I have no idea how he would function as a lead.) You could go for Tentacruel over Vaporeon as the spinner I suppose (no actually you should use Starmie as Sprinkles suggests,) and then you could use a Wish support Jirachi in the lead position, (with stealth rock) but then, despite resisting rock, he still cannot really counter ddTar (and it would open up a large ground weakness). If you put stealth rock on Heatran as suggested above, you could open up more options in this respect. Basically it seems as though you may simply have to sacrifice the general synergy of your team to sort this problem out.

Would it not be a good idea to use a ddMence, using the substitute for a free dragon dance? You could run yache berry or something to protect from priority such that you could get 2 dragon dances and sweep.

Apart from the Ttar weakness, the team is great and very different. Good luck, and I hope it catches on.

DDMence is an interesting choice. I definitely considered it, but then I finally decided I wanted to use Mixed for the immediate power. Dragon Dance wither is too vulnerable once it gets locked into Outrage(which is why I'm considering taking it off on my mence now), or if you try running Dragon Claw it's too weak.

Hi.

We talked on AIM for a bit, and you told me about your weaknesses. I'm here to help with your problems against Tyarnitar, Salamence, and SDape. You said that Forretress is kind of deadweight for your team, since it's set up bait, but at the same time you rely on it a ton. I think a much better option over Forretress would be to run a Bronzong in it's spot. It helps alleviate your DDTar problem, as well as serving as a great check for Salamence. I'd run the standard EV spread, albeit with Heatproof over Levitate, so you won't get toasted by Salamence's Fire Blast or DDTar's Fire Punch, as most suspect Levitate. Bronzong will serve as a great transition Pokemon mid-game as well, being able to come in on Rock type attacks, which currently nothing on your team can. Bronzong can also beat Heatran since you have Heatproof, because a LO Tran destroys your team currently. Rotom doesn't even outspeed Heatran with your current nature. That brings me to my next point. I would run a Timid Nature on Rotom so you outpace Adamant Lucario, so you have another check against them. Salamence takes care of Jolly versions just fine. Oh, go with a moveset of Earthquake, Gyro Ball, Stealth Rock, and Explosion on Bronzong. My next change I want to suggest, since you currently lack a spinner, is to go with an offensive Starmie over Vaporeon. You have a horrible SD Infernape weakness. You told me you can play around it, but it weakens your core so terribly even with resisted hits. Infernape sets up on Forretress easily, being a real threat to your team. Run a set of Rapid Spin, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam. This will allow your team to have a spinner, as well as dealing with stall. Starmie absolutely rips through any stall team without Blissey, so it's important with dealing with it. With these changes you deal with Heatran, Salamence, Infernape, and Tyranitar a lot better. It's a very well-presented team, and very original by the way. I hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

I'm testing the Starmie > Vaporeon and Bronzong > Forrey. I'm honestly not feeling the changes atm, but I think it's more how I play and not the team itself. A little more practice and I should be able to give a more thorough opinion.

I think that since vap is primarily useful for the team due to its bulk and water absorb that you could combine the roles and go for poliwrath...? It can't wish pass, but it's quite bulky, a rock/dark/ice/bug resist, and can use focus punch/brick break to scare off ttar and hypnosis behind the sub to deal with pokemon it wouldn't be able to hit (like gyara as it switches in). It's generally a weak pokemon, but I think it fits the team idea very well, plus if you EV it defensively enough it can come in on things as powerful as adamant CBtar's crunch (or a +1 ddtar crunch) without breaking the sub. At the very least it would prompt a switch-out, which you could try to status on the switch or just hit with a focus punch. It can also deal with Heatran with either of its stab moves if your own heatran is gone, and run Ice punch to cover dragons.

DDMence would work well too, but there's no real need to set up in the first place when it can fire off an already-powerful special attack against an opponent that will switch out to a check. Especially with spikes and rocks up, his special attacks (with that heavy spatk investment) will be able to torch most counters that would come in to try to stop a setup sweep.

just some ideas, since this was an idea I tried to make work that you made sooooooooo much better :D

Thanks for the original idea =D
If starmie doesn't work I may try Poliwrath.

I think you should consider Occa Berry on Forretress so that you can survive a Fire Blast from a Naive Azelf lead. I also disagree with putting two residual damage moves on one pokemon as it is impractical to pull off and your 4th move can be used better in most instances. Other than that, no changes.

Occa Berry has actually been a consideration of mine. I like the dual res. damage personally, but w/e.

I don't think a spinner is something that should be a priority to you. Vaporeon is the only one that truly hates toxic spikes, as Celebi is just going to switch out. If it happens to be the final Pokemon, Celebi isn't going to out-stall the other team anyways. Forretress could really put you in the hole early, as it is setup fodder for most pokemon. Replace it with a stronger lead and you don't have to worry so much about spikes, etc. because you won't be giving them such a good chance to set up. I don't really like the sleep talk Heatran set myself, so maybe it would serve better as a lead and free up a slot for you. Hell, maybe you could just swap the order on those two and let Forretress come in later in the game if you really want to keep the spinner. Otherwise, I think a Skarmory could fit well on your team as well. It could serve as another phazer or free up Vaporeon's slot for an HP electric/toxic/ice beam/yawn.

If I don't hae a good spinner, stall can just set up spikes and t-spikes. T-spikes are especially troublesome, as they limit vaporeon longetivity and celebi, despite having natural cure, will get re-poisoned everytime it comes in.

Thanks for the rates, guys! =D