The Inverse Battle ǝɯɐƃɐʇǝɯ

[a__man]

Yeah, I just remember it was popular at the beginning of the metagame, experienced a pretty big drop the month after, and now a resurgence. Maybe it's because Chansey's relatively less popular.

Interesting trick with it: if you find Chanseys switching into you too often, run Toxic Spikes. Makes you immune to Toxic (and makes it less likely for others to switch into a Toxic), makes its job much more difficult, and you can set up completely after just one Seismic Toss.

On another note, who's the better physical Chlorophyll sweeper? Leafeon (highest attack), Leavanny (STAB Bug) or Sawsbuck (STAB Normal)? After a SD from any of them they're pretty threatening.

 

[Klang]

On another note, who's the better physical Chlorophyll sweeper? Leafeon (highest attack), Leavanny (STAB Bug) or Sawsbuck (STAB Normal)? After a SD from any of them they're pretty threatening.

Sawsbuck is probably the best one I'd say for a number of reasons. Unlike Leafeon and Leavanny, it gets Horn Leech as its grass STAB attack, which while slightly weaker easily allows it to regain the HP it lost after setting up and almost nullifying LO recoil as well as helping against priority revenge killing. It also has, as you mentioned, normal STAB, which is a godsend. Finally it also has sap sipper as an alternative, which you won't be using since in this context it will be a chlorophyll sweeper, but can play mind games with the opponent if you haven't directly revealed chlorophyll yet by outspeeding a faster foe.


So with Deo-N gone I've noticed a spike in popularity of Deo-S hyper offence, since you no longer have to succumb to the giant opportunity cost of giving up Deo-N due to species clause anymore. It's very hard to stop if the opponent's team is well built as it will usually set up Stealth Rock and Spikes guaranteed and pack sweepers that can usually deal with Avalugg in a way that it may never be able to spin at all. Personally to combat this team archetype I've started running Avalugg + a fast defogger (Aerodactyl at this point in time) to make sure that I can get rid of the hazards as fast as possible, though even with 2 pokes dedicated to hazard removal it can be hard to find the time to do it.

Has anyone else had any experiences fighting with or against this playstyle?

 

[a__man]

What's the usual Speed investment for Deo-S? If it's max, the speed of the Defogger isn't too important, I guess. Zapdos (whose Thunder Wave HO teams hate, and with enough special attack investment can one-shot Diggersby) and Articuno are decent bulky defoggers. In my experience, HO tends to involved a lot of normal spam, so a rock type might find trouble.

I find Deo-D to be better for HO: it can set up hazards multiple times, acts as a panic button, and can spread paralysis.

 

[Detective Scruffy]

I find this metagame intriguing BUT it messes with my mind. I have lost games because i tried hitting celebi with bug moves >.>

 

[zanorak]

(Hi everyone, I'm back!)

I've been mulling it over the past few days, and I think that it's time to ban Deoxys-Speed. With the increased coverage of Psycho Boost, it's very difficult to switch into it safely, and it's basically guaranteed two layers of hazards. All Magic Bouncers are OHKO'd by Psycho Boost, for example. It forces teams to run counter-intuitive sets and overcentralizes the game. For all these reasons, I think it's very worthy of a ban.

I'll specify more if you want, but that's the crux of it. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Durant]

How would Parasect be in this meta:
Typing wise Parasect would resist flying, fire poison, rock, ice and bug. its would also be immume to water with dry skin in exchange for making fire moves a 2 times resist instead of 4. Offensively Parasect can also use it grass and bug STAB's and those are pretty good attacking types. Would Parasect be worth using?

 

[Antihaxxer]

Too slow and weak to grass electric ground fighting ?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

its not weak to ground, but it's still really meh otherwise. amoonguss is pretty much superior for spore abuse... (and i'm pretty sure he's bad as well)

 

[CPU]

Parasect is 4x weak to Ground in inverse.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

ok yeah fuck i thought ground was SE on bug in real life for some reason

yeah parasect sucks then (and we still have amoonguss...)

 

[Kingpoleon]

Could a viability thread be made? THis is a really popular metagame, and Tier Shift got one with 3 less pages than this. It would really help find the threats in this meta a lot easier.

 

[TheNextDimentions]

I hope I'm the first guy to say this, but Meloetta rules. A Calm Mind set Meloetta absolutely crushes special attackers, but it's HP and modest Defence and Speed keeps its above water. With only a weakness to Psychic, which it attacks (using Psychic) with STAB, it's only true check is Mega Alakazam and Chansey (if not using Psyshock). It absolutely terrorizes. I'm the only one who uses this on the simulators currently, so I hope I can get a marginal amount of credit for popularizing Meloetta. If someone says I can credit for this, I will post my successful set for Meloetta.

EDIT: The reason I'm saying this is because the people I've played before (and only them) are copying my Meloetta strategy, so I hope to have proof I made it popular before everyone starts using it.

 

[Pyritie]

rev up those avaluggs and kangaskhans because it looks like the next season's "special battle" ladder on battle spot is inverse battles!

http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/4/regulation

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Celebi may end up banned. That thing seems OP.
BTW, I'm trying a Toxic/Seed stall. Should I run Recover, Protect, or both and drop Energy Ball at the risk of being Taunt Bait? Energy Ball will help against Grass, Poison, and Steel (haha!), which can block Toxic and Leech Seed.

 

[Pyritie]

Celebi may end up banned. That thing seems OP.

Like with pretty much everything else on battle spot, all event legends are banned

(or did you mean on showdown's inverse ladder? sorry)

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Like with pretty much everything else on battle spot, all event legends are banned

(or did you mean on showdown's inverse ladder? sorry)

I meant on showdown's ladder. And it's not entirely bannable strength, though I do recommend it.

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Here's an extremely successful set i've been using in the ladder:

Mienshao @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 SDef / 56 HP
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off

At first glance, this set looks extremely odd, but it's actually very effective in this meta! Speed is not needed for this set to work, instead, it functions as an offensive pivot capable of supporting the team and tanking special attacks such as Mega Gengar's Shadow Ball. Here are some calculations to showcase its utility:


Attacks against Mienshao:

Hide

252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 56 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 118-141 (41.4 - 49.4%)
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 133-156 (46.6 - 54.7%)
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 56 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 77-91 (27 - 31.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 56 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 116-136 (40.7 - 47.7%)

Attacks by Mienshao:

Hide

200 Atk Mienshao Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 77-91 (30.6 - 36.2%)
200 Atk Mienshao Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 100-118 (38.3 - 45.2%)
200 Atk Mienshao U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 344-408 (131.8 - 156.3%)
200 Atk Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 248-294 (68.1 - 80.7%)

Based on these calculations, you can see that Mienshao can constantly switch in and use its decent spdef to act as a great offensive pivot that can quickly annoy its opponents by scouting, knocking off, hitting hard with HJK, or constantly abusing Fake Out to slowly damage the opponent. Go give this set a try before any of you raise judgment, it works surprisingly well if you know how to use it, I often find my self depending on him.

I've tried this set, and I must admit it works well.

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Can someone rate this set?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-inverse-team.3506509/

 

[zanorak]

Can someone rate this set?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-inverse-team.3506509/

Interesting. I understand the concept of what you're trying to counter, but your team seems to be a bit unbalanced in the sense that it doesn't really do much besides countering Psychic-types. Having three Assault Vest users on the same team sounds like overkill on paper, though I might change my opinion if I see it work in practice; but nevertheless there are some glaring issues I see.

Avalugg is not going to be an effective weather setter, and even when it does get hail up it's not going to help your team significantly. Plus, you sacrifice a moveslot for the (as I see it) much more important Roar, giving up your ability to force out setup sweepers and rack up hazard damage. If I were you, I would stick with a bread-and-butter Avalugg set.

Medicham-Mega I can see being potentially useful, but it's still frail enough even after +1 for a lot of stuff to kill it outright; Dragonite and Landorus-T come to mind.

The way Celebi is being treated is pretty much a Mew wannabe, minus some super important moves like Will-o-Wisp and Taunt. If you want utility, go with Mew, which also lacks a weakness to Grass. And if you're going to stick with Celebi, replace Energy Ball with Giga Drain.

Regice would work nice in theory (dat special bulk yo) but lacks any partners to deal with its checks and counters.

Overall: the main problem with the team is that it lacks momentum. You have a lot of neat defensive tricks, but I can of a dozen ways that a strong priority sweeper could smash through it.

tl;dr 6/10, would not bang.

Want to battle me and test it out? Nick on Showdown is same as my username.

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

Interesting. I understand the concept of what you're trying to counter, but your team seems to be a bit unbalanced in the sense that it doesn't really do much besides countering Psychic-types. Having three Assault Vest users on the same team sounds like overkill on paper, though I might change my opinion if I see it work in practice; but nevertheless there are some glaring issues I see.

Avalugg is not going to be an effective weather setter, and even when it does get hail up it's not going to help your team significantly. Plus, you sacrifice a moveslot for the (as I see it) much more important Roar, giving up your ability to force out setup sweepers and rack up hazard damage. If I were you, I would stick with a bread-and-butter Avalugg set.

Medicham-Mega I can see being potentially useful, but it's still frail enough even after +1 for a lot of stuff to kill it outright; Dragonite and Landorus-T come to mind.

The way Celebi is being treated is pretty much a Mew wannabe, minus some super important moves like Will-o-Wisp and Taunt. If you want utility, go with Mew, which also lacks a weakness to Grass. And if you're going to stick with Celebi, replace Energy Ball with Giga Drain.

Regice would work nice in theory (dat special bulk yo) but lacks any partners to deal with its checks and counters.

Overall: the main problem with the team is that it lacks momentum. You have a lot of neat defensive tricks, but I can of a dozen ways that a strong priority sweeper could smash through it.

tl;dr 6/10, would not bang.

Want to battle me and test it out? Nick on Showdown is same as my username.

Thanks. I realized Mew was better a long time ago, but I haven't changed it on of my sets just because of it's Grass type STAB. Mew would be better overall, though. And sure, I'll battle.

 

[Neverman]

Is there an Uber version of this with Arceus and such not banned?

 

[EV]

Is there an Uber version of this with Arceus and such not banned?

No I'm afraid not. No OMs get an "Ubers" version for that matter. They are what they are.
(Some people have tried to change that with little success however.)

 

[Neverman]

No I'm afraid not. No OMs get an "Ubers" version for that matter. They are what they are.
(Some people have tried to change that with little success however.)

Thanks. I'll stick only with BH for now then.

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

No I'm afraid not. No OMs get an "Ubers" version for that matter. They are what they are.
(Some people have tried to change that with little success however.)

I guess you can count Averagemons, but they don't get any advantages over other 'mons.

 

[Uselesscrab]

I guess you can count Averagemons, but they don't get any advantages over other 'mons.

Averagemons =/= inverse battle...