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The Next Best Thing - Sawk [Voting]

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by skylight, Mar 13, 2013.

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  1. vyomov

    vyomov

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    This is similar to FLCL's Set and yet different
    [​IMG]
    Simipour@Petaya Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Grass Knot
    - Nasty Plot
    Unlike the SubPetaya Set, the idea of this set is to take a hit while Nasty Plot works before generally wrecking havoc with +3 SpA. Almost nothing takes +3 save very few walls, who are usually unable to actually do much damage to Simi, allowing it to set up to +5 before sweeping them too.
    Please give feedback if any
    Thanks guys!
  2. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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  3. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    I've actually tested it out with simipour too and it works better imo

    [​IMG]
    Simipour @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    -Acrobatics
    -Waterfall
    -Substitute
    -Endeavor

    Works the same way as the previously posted simisage but waterfall has a chance to flinch, you hit everything for neutral damage (even steels) and it's a great way to lure in jynx and ohko it with acrobatics. You also want to take off the 4 hp or else you won't be able to make 4 subs. Simipour also revenge kills cahrizard (unlike simisage) which is the biggest threat at 100 spe.

    For those who haven't read the simisage post:
    Water flying is one of the best coverage in the tier, sub will help you avoid status or get a free sub on incoming jynx who expects special set which is then outsped and ohko'd by acrobatics. Sub is also used to get to torrent range (less than 1/3 hp) or to get to a range where endeavor deals huge damage to anything not ghost type (golurk being the most common is wrecked by waterfall). This will often let you crush a wall for something like tauros to finish off after. Also a great way to go offensive while keeping a way to make a hole in a stall team (alomomola 2hko's your sub).
  4. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Yeah, it seems like it would work better, for sure. And I never noticed that 4 HP wouldn't let you have 4 Subs. Good to know.
  5. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    A problem I see with this set is thanks to Simipour's frailty, it's kind of hard to "take a hit" and get down into Petaya range without Substitute. Of course, if you do use Sub, you unfortunately suffer from coverage issues. This is just my opinion, though.
  6. Hollywood

    Hollywood ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ Chugga Chugga! ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    I like this set. Even though it may be difficult to set up, it's still very good if you can manage it.

    My only recommendation would be to run Salac over Petaya. You're already boosting with Nasty Plot as it is, but the set still struggles with being revenge killed by Choice Scarf users. Since a lot of Choice Scarf users these days fall around the 95 base Speed range, getting to Salac can be devastating for more offensively oriented teams since very few will run something fast enough to outspeed it. While the set still struggles to deal with Pokemon who commonly carry priority moves, you still have less to worry about than you would with a Petaya Berry.
  7. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Firstly, thanks for the feedback!
    Am considering replacing Petaya with Salac, but wanted to know whether with 252 EVs and Salac I would still need to run a Timid Nature or whether I could just run a Modest Nature to give it more wallbreaking capability.
    Also, because Mantine is a common counter to Simipour, I was thinking of running HP Electric vs Grass Knot. Any thoughts guys?
  8. NeverUsedTier

    NeverUsedTier

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    simisage, the knock off serperior set.

    Simisage @ Salac Berry / Life orb
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid/Modest Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot

    this set is basically the serperior set that has become increasingly popular but the only main differences are the small but big speed difference and the giving up of a lot of bulk for a lot of power. pretty straight forward, run timid and life orb if you wanna just sweep pokes and arent afraid of scolipede, scarfers etc. run salac berry and potentially modest if you are looking for more of a sweep that might take a little more to get set up but will probably be hard to beat if it does.

    i used this set in PU and had a very fun and mostly successful time.
  9. Hollywood

    Hollywood ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ Chugga Chugga! ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    I would probably still run Grass Knot and just run other checks to Mantine on the team. Basically what it boils down to is, do you want to be walled by Mantine or do you want to be walled by Seismitoad? Since I feel the latter is more common, I think Grass Knot (or Hidden Power Grass) would likely be better.

    And run a Timid nature. This is pretty crucial. With a Modest nature, base 95 scarfers will outspeed you, assuming they run a +Speed nature (which they should and often will). Additionally, it is easier to set up with a Timid nature. With a Modest nature, you are outsped by things like Jynx (which is a bitch by the way), Primeape, other Simis, Kangaskhan, Sawsbuck, etc. Getting the jump on these mons is important.

    Other than that though, your set is pretty good. Well done.
  10. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Ok, so this is the final set:
    Nasty Salac Simipour
    Simipour@Salac Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot
    - Hydro Pump
    - Nasty Plot
    Once again, thanks a lot Treecko37 for the amazing feedback that helped improve the set. Will test this shortly on PS :)
  11. Hollywood

    Hollywood ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ Chugga Chugga! ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    Good luck with the set!

    I'll also be submitting a set. This one is for the most ~fabulous~ of the three.

    [​IMG]

    Simisear @ Expert Belt | Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef | Timid Nature
    - Fire Spin
    - Taunt
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Simisear is a really cool Pokemon who has immediate offensive presence. The main issue I find when running Simisear is that it is far too frail and difficult to set up. So I was thinking as I was looking over these monkeys' movepools, what kind of set can I run that doesn't mind the frailty so much. This is what I came up with.

    The purpose of this set is not for Simisear to sweep; rather, it is for Simisear to trap opposing walls and tanks and defeat them so that other Pokemon on your team may find it easier to sweep. The premise of the set is simple: your opponent is likely to switch in something like Alomomola or Lickilicky to try and beat the set. On the switch, you use Fire Spin to trap them in play. From here, you can do a couple of different things. If you feel it is beneficial, you can Taunt to prevent them from disrupting your plans or Recover back health. Otherwise, you can just start clicking moves and hoping to greatly weaken the foe.

    While this set may not always beat walls one on one due to Simisear's frailty, this isn't really that big of a deal. As long as you have weakened a check or counter to another one of your sweepers to finish the job, you are set. My personal favorite part about this set is the following calc.

    252SpAtk Expert Belt Simisear (Neutral) Hidden Power (Grass) vs 252HP/0SpDef Alomomola (Neutral): 52% - 62% (283 - 333 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Leftovers don't even really play a factor either due to the residual damage that Fire Spin provides.

    Now you may be asking yourself why you should bother using this Simisear set over something like Gothorita. Gothorita does have the ability to trap anything in the tier (bar Wynaut or opposing Gothorita), so shouldn't you use it instead? What it boils down to is the needs of the team. You see, the really neat part about this Simisear set is that it has legitimate offensive presence outside of trapping. Between its respectable 98 base Special Attack and its convenient 101 base Speed, it can outspeed and OHKO a lot of common offensive Pokemon--something that Gothorita cannot claim. Additionally, Fire is a really cool offensive typing in this meta, absolutely destroying the likes of Jynx and Scolipede (not giving these Pokemon a free switch in and of itself makes it a benefit to have on your team). Not a lot of the Pokemon who can switch into a Fire Blast pose an offensive threat to the rest of your team.

    Overall, I just really love stall-breakers (i.e. my Encore Primeape set). Stall is a lot of fun for me to play with, but it can be such a pain to play against. Trapping and defeating some common defensive Pokemon is a blessing. And while it cannot beat all of the defensive Pokemon in the tier, it truly can weaken quite a few of them to the point that something else can finish the job. Plus, Simisear is a ~fabulous~ and underappreciated Pokemon. Show him some love. [:
  12. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Just thinking, imagine if this set could be used in RBY :p!
    On a serious note, why not try using a Grip Claw? The fact that you can extend the duration allows you to get in a set up sweeper who can SD 2 to 3 times before sweeping the whole team.
    Simisear shouldn't be running Expert Belt with the current aim of the set, since the objective is to get in a sweeper and allow the sweeper to set up. At best, taunting before switching is good, but apart from preventing Simi from becoming Taunt fodder, I don't see why it should attack.
    Interesting :)
  13. Axelotl

    Axelotl

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    Simisear @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest/Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Substitute

    This was a set I used in the last meta, but it's been working pretty well in this one as well. Simisear has a pretty easy time coming in on resisted hits. They'll usually do quite a bit of damage, but rarely 2hko, which is just what you want with this set. Sub down to >25%, and you'll have STAB, Blaze-boosted Fire Blasts, with a +1 in Speed. If you run a Timid nature, you'll outspeed Scarf +Speed 95's like Jynx and Primeape, which run rampant in this meta, but you lose out on some firepower (pun totally intended). Grass Knot takes care of things like Carracosta that could threaten this set otherwise, while HP Rock takes out most flying types. Note though that if you run Timid, HP Rock and Grass Knot will not be hitting very hard. The idea with this set is that the opponent rarely sees it coming, and if they underestimate you and you end up with Blaze, +1 Speed and a sub, it's pretty much GG, as some things can live one Fire Blast, but these are usually 2hko'd anyway, and in my experience, I've rarely faced teams with more than one Poké that can take 2 Fire Blasts. It's usually a good idea to run it with some Spikes support so the opponent comes in a bit weakened from the start. This may not be the best set out there, but I enjoy using it and have had some success with it as well, so I figured I might as well share it :D
  14. Hollywood

    Hollywood ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ Chugga Chugga! ᕕ┌◕ᗜ◕┐ᕗ
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    That's not how it works. Fire Spin traps as long as you stay in, so basically the purpose of the set is to weaken checks and counters to your sweepers while you have them trapped. usually if you can't severely weaken them in 2-4 turns, you have no business staying in anyways.

    If it continued to trap after switching out, though, I would be all over running that.
  15. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    [​IMG]
    Simisear @ Power Herb
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Flame Charge
    - Solarbeam
    - Fire Blast
    - Substitute / HP [Ice]

    This set doesn't take numerous turns to set up unlike some Simi sets, just go for a Flame Charge and you're ready to go. The turns in which you may use Flame Charge are when the opponent is threatened by Simisear and may switch into the likes of Samurott or Regirock, or when the opponent's Pokemon faints in the next turn. Power Herb Solarbeam is extremely powerful and can catch the likes of Samurott, Alomomola, and Regirock off guard as they usually can take a weak ol' HP [Grass] and retaliate with their STABs. Fire Blast is the mandatory STAB, Substitute is for when you want to scout, though HP [Ice] enables it to hit Altaria (a usual counter to Simisear as it can't afford to run HP [ice] on standard sets) and other Dragons harder. This set also is really good in this meta imo as it can tear through teams once their Fire type counter is gone (which Simisear can do with Solarbeam!), and when Sear gets to +1 Speed, outspeeding base 95 Scarfers and knocking them with Fire Blast. Simisear also appreciates hazard support to help weaken checks / counters.
  16. TalkTakesTime

    TalkTakesTime mirror mirror on the wall, how can dicky learn to ball
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    [PIMG]542[/PIMG]

    Simisear @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot

    The point of this set is pretty much to sub into Blaze range, hopefully getting in a NP boost on the way, activating the Salac Berry on the way. This means you outspeed most common scarfers, as they tend to be around base 95 in the current meta, as well as having a Sub up to protect you from priority. The moves and EVs are pretty simple: 4 HP to allow you to activate the Salac on the third Sub, not the fourth; max special attack and speed for maximum potency; Fire Blast for maximum power or Flamethrower if you really want to not miss, although you do miss out on a number of kills; Focus Blast for optimal coverage, although that miss chance is a bitch; and Sub and NP, which are the point of this set. This set thrives lategame when everything is weakened, as at +2 and in Blaze range, Fire Blast will hurt everything, even things that resist it. A few calcs give examples of how much it does:

    +2 252 SpA Blaze Simisear Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 448-528 (83.89 - 98.87%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 SpA Blaze Simisear Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 360-424 (84.9 - 100%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 SpA Blaze Simisear Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 208-246 (50.24 - 59.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Also this because fuck Jynx
    +2 252 SpA Blaze Simisear Fire Blast vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Dry Skin Jynx: 1260-1484 (461.53 - 543.58%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    This guy does sometimes struggle to set up, but if you can get it set up it can seriously dent your opponent's team. Note that it is walled hard by Flash Fire Lampent, although Lampent is neither very common nor very resilient, so that is likely not a massive problem. Max SDef Altaria also is only 2HKOed 25% of the time after rocks, so it is pretty much a hard counter to this set.
  17. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    This basic idea is: how can I try to surprise my opponent? Can I do that with an ATK Simisage?

    So, verify that:
    [​IMG]
    Simisage@Focus Sash
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Work Up
    - Seed Bomb
    - Acrobatics
    - SuperPower / GunShot

    Focus Sash is what I need to boost (with Work Up) the attack safely. Jolly nature is to try to make it as fast as possible our tyr (which already has its base speed of 101. Now what you can do with Seed Bomb is really very dangerous. Acrobatics and Superpower (Gunk Shot is also an alternative for grass-type as Cacturne) are used to accomplish strengh against poke as Scolipede, Miltank and Probopass/Bastiodon. For example:

    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 537-633 (196.7 - 231.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 582-686 (160.77 - 189.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 432-510 (126.68 - 149.56%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ludicolo: 292-344 (80.21 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Skuntank: 168-198 (48.41 - 57.06%) -- 91.02% chance to 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 364-429 (134.31 - 158.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 306-360 (105.15 - 123.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 404-476 (75.65 - 89.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 219-258 (65.76 - 77.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 342-403 (100.58 - 118.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 80 HP / 8 Def Liepard: 414-487 (143.25 - 168.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Musharna: 277-327 (63.53 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Overgrow Simisage Seed Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Haunter: 226-267 (97.41 - 115.08%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 164-194 (62.59 - 74.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +1 252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Miltank: 308-364 (78.17 - 92.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Probopass: 468-552 (144.44 - 170.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Bastiodon: 372-440 (114.81 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Simisage Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cacturne: 486-574 (172.34 - 203.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  18. TalkTakesTime

    TalkTakesTime mirror mirror on the wall, how can dicky learn to ball
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    The Quasar, you might want to note that all your calculations were done with 0 Atk EVs, while your set has 252. I suspect a lot of the relevant KOes might change with those EVs added on. In addition, your Acrobatics calculation only had base 55 power, so it should do double that damage when your Sash is broken.
  19. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Thanks a lot. I'm correcting it immediately.
  20. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    @The Quasar

    Unless you really want to fake a mixed set, you could just use hone claws over work up to boost gunk shot's accuracy. This being said, I don't think gunk shot hits much that acrobatics doesn't already. You'd probably be better off with low kick or superpower for miltank and probopass/bastiodon. Leaf storm could also be an option to hit some physical walls on the special side and work up would boost it too.
  21. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Similar to Treecko37's set, but serves a much different purpose
    [​IMG]
    Simipour @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    -Taunt
    -Nasty Plot / Ice Beam
    -Hydro Pump
    -Grass Knot / Ice Beam

    This Simipour acts as an anti-lead to prevent Stealth Rocks from being set up by any means, and it does this through the use of Taunt and its powerful STAB Hydro Pump. Simipour arguably does the best out of the 3 Simis against most SR setters in the current meta (Golurk, Piloswine, Golem, etc.), and it separates itself from Samurott with its higher Speed and access to Nasty Plot. You basically come in, Taunt, and then attempt to dish out as much damage to the opposing side as possible, either by boosting with Nasty Plot or just hitting hard from the get-go with LO-boosted attacks. The choice between Nasty Plot and Ice Beam can be tough, though: it's a choice between being able to set up vs. much-needed extra coverage. However, keep in mind this Simipour isn't designed to stay alive for very long, so keep that in mind when choosing between the two moves. If you do choose NP, though, Grass Knot is preferred to hit Water Absorb Seismitoad, a fairly common SR lead in today's meta. Ice Beam gives you better overall coverage, though, and is a good choice as long as you have a Grass-type on your team. Oh, and one final note: Focus Sash is better with NP, as it helps Simipour to boost without worry of being OHKO'd, while LO is better with Taunt+3 attacks to get as much initial power as possible.

    EDIT: This Simipour still can't really do shit to any of its counters (Jynx, Mantine, Ludicolo, etc.), but at least it can Taunt stuff like Lovely Kiss and Rain Dance, so it can at least say it was able to do something.
  22. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Your remarks are correct. I chose Gunk Shot for its strong efficacy against grass-type as Cacturne. However, I believe what you say is right, it's better what you suggest about. I corrected my set by inserting Superpower (Gunk Shot I leave it as an alternative) and some calculations on it.

    Thanks a lot.
  23. skylight

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  24. Majestic Electric

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  25. GOthee

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    The Quasar
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