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Gen 5 The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Alright, time to updates, just going to do the Zangoose and Kangaskhan moves for a while, although the other Normal-types are still up for discussion ofc, i'd like to bring up cinccino in particular though since quite a few players have called it overrated as of late despite its high usage.

  2. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Cinccino: Ok, I can see the intrigue in this thing. It has Skill Link, a STAB multi-hit move, and Bullet Seed to hit Rock-types. It also has U-turn to scout for checks and counters. However, there are two types of Pokemon it is absolutely powerless against: Ghost-types and Steel-types. Spiritomb is one of the most common Pokemon in the tier and it absolutely shits on Cinccino. It can Will-O-Wisp it or just smack it with Sucker Punch / Foul Play. Ferroseed is one of the more common defensive Pokemon and it just laughs at whatever Cinccino tries to do. Iron Barbs also makes Cinccino commit suicide if Ferroseed switches in on a Tail Slap (it's like 62% in passive damage plus possible LO recoil and hazard damage) If Ferroseed doesn't float your boat, there's Escavalier, Steelix, Aggron, and even Durant that you can use. The first 3 can take anything and Durant only comes close to fearing CB Rock Blast. All 4 of these Pokemon can then just use Cinccino to either launch powerful attacks (Escavalier, Aggron, and Durant) or use it as setup bait (Steelix and Durant) It's also incredibly frail and gets outsped by Sceptile, Swellow, and p. much any Scarf user in the tier. Priority also screws it since it's so frail. I feel it should move down to Low B since so many of the Pokemon that can handle it are fairly major threats in the current metagame, but any move down for it would be nice I guess.
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  3. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    I think that people calling Cinccino overrated may not be using it in the best way. Though I love Cinccino way too much (I think I've used it on every RU team and most of my UU teams as well) and may be biased toward it, I don't think I'm overstating its worth on a team. 3 moves with Skill Link-assisted 125 base power (one of which receives STAB with good neutral coverage), all of which can break through Substitutes and Focus Sashes, is very good.

    Notice, though, that while this fire power is "very good," it's not "great." 95 base Attack, while slightly above average, can be underwhelming, and Cinccino's not going to be decimating teams by itself anytime soon.

    I mainly use the Life Orb set. Coupled with 115 base Speed, Cinccino can clean up weakened teams or damage the opponent's team at the beginning of the round for its opponents to clean up later. Though Steel-types and bulky Ghost-types give it problems, U-turn allows it to get out of that situation and immediately switch into a counter. (I've tried using Aqua Tail before as listed on the site, but it only gets a 4HKO on Steelix at full health, barely has a chance to 2HKO Aggron with Stealth Rock up, and ekes out a 3HKO on OFFENSIVE Klingklang, unless you're something like Banded or Adamant Life Orb; these are the only that Aqua Tail is used for, and I usually like U-Turn to leave defeating these three to its teammates.) This is probably the BEST counter to Focus Sash leads in NU; though it's a niche (dedicated leads with Focus Sash are pretty rare), that's not its only job. Cinccino's ability to do good damage quickly throughout the game along with its aforementioned ability to break through Substitutes and Sashes gives it an invaluable and almost unmatched niche in the lower tiers.

    Choice Band is a very fast hole puncher that gives up the ability to switch moves for more power. It hits much harder than most people would expect, and its well above average Speed helps a lot. Choice Scarf seems really popular, though this is the set I find rather underwhelming because it loses the ability to switch moves offered by Life Orb and the power granted by both Life Orb and Choice Band, both of which it really needs on top of a Jolly Nature to make sure it work. Adamant Scarf is usually the way to go, though, at which point it becomes the fastest commonly used revenge killer in RU.

    B+ rank sounds perfect for Cinccino. It's not strong enough to really be a sweeper, it's very predictable, and there's no way for it to set up (and it's most likely to be too frail to do so even if it could), but it's a very good at offering offensive support for teammates.

    *go cutemons*

    ~EDIT~ I realized I spelled Cinccino's name wrong about half the time I used it. I can't even spell the name of my favorite Pokemon in RU >.<
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  4. Laurel

    Laurel Never Too Late
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    Crawdaunt should be low B:

    Pros
    - Adaptability
    - Three viable sets
    - Sets up on common pokemon, slowking, uxie, etc
    - Great coverage stabs resisted only be Ferroseed
    - Base 120 attack
    - Plethora of resistances to common types (Fire, Water, Psychic)
    - One of the few good set up sweepers

    Cons
    - Awful defenses
    - Hard walled by Tangrowth, Momo, and Ferroseed
    - Easily revenge killed [Mach Punch]
    - Bad speed tier [but it's actually not that bad]

    Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as MANY notable flaws that prevent them from being top tier threats. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be as effective as higher ranked Pokemon in RU. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

    (Cannot believe I never noticed that typo)

    What is Daunter's competition? The only other Dragon Dance user is Fraxure and it can only run one set. It also is walled by the same things, and Crawdaunt has a chance at getting past Steelix.

    What are Daunter's many notable flaws? Yes it is weak to things like Mach Punch and Scarfed pokemon that can revenge it, but they do not need that much support to be removed, and Mach Punch is only common on 4 pokemon (2 are also in C). Furthermore, the common scarfers, mainly Rotom-C, gets destroyed by an unboosted Adamant crunch.

    252 Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-C: 156-184 (64.73 - 76.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I understand Crawdaunt has flaws, but I think it's pros mitigate them. It's power really cannot be under estimated, it easily sweeps with it's handful of checks removed, and really that doesn't not require much support. Moltres kills every one. :)
  5. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Its not only Choice Scarf Pokemon. Accelgor, Aerodactyl, Swellow, Sceptile, Cinccino, Scolipede, Archeops, Tauros, Durant, and Galvantula can also revenge kill it at +1 and almost all of them OHKO it (except maybe Aerodactyl and Tauros) Adamant DD gets revenged by even more stuff, including Manectric, Sigilpyh, Typhlosion, Jynx, Scyther, Electivire, Primeape, Sawsbuck, and Charizard all of whom can in fact OHKO it. 55 is enough to outpace walls, yeah, but its not enough to sweep anybody with a few fast things in the wings, and even then a lot of Qwilfish can speed creep + Taunt it. Getting walled by Tangrowth and Ferroseed is kinda annoying too (although it does set up on mola!)

    It's defenses also don't really make it make use of its resistances. Most Fire moves 2HKO or even OHKO Crawdaunt and its slower than all the common Fire-types. I guess a cool merit is it sets up on Slowking but even then you don't want Crawdaunt to be paralyzed, Scald burned, or even hit by a Specs Surf which kinda hurts. This also makes CB and a Special Attacker suffer a bit from not being very fast and not being able to take a hit, making them rely a lot of prediction (both are cool sets though). Most Psychic types get Thunderbolt or an alternative STAB to wreck Crawdaunt, and only Slowking (maybe Mesprit?) often carries Specs or a Scarf.

    imo it has just as many pros as cons. But being revenge killed by so many unboosted Pokemon is really annoying when it can't take a hit from the large majority of them, because you got a lot of things that can stop a Crawdaunt sweep. I would prefer it to stay in Top C. SubDD can do work but you need to be careful about a ton of the tier post and pre boost.
    Silvershadow234 likes this.
  6. EonX

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    First of all, Swamp-Rocket , yes, Mesprit does commonly use Choice Specs (3rd set on its analysis) and also Scarf from time to time and it's pretty dang easy to catch Crawdaunt with TBolt or U-turn. Anyway, I digress

    Crawdaunt: Agreeing with S-R on this thing, but I'll take it a step further. Crawdaunt has way less utility than the other various Dark- and Water-types in the tier. Because we all know about Slowking, Samurott, Kabutops, and Omastar, I won't cover the Water-type side of the argument. However, there are plenty of Dark-types in RU. Absol can wallbreak more effectively and it can even double up as a revenge killer with STAB Sucker Punch. Spiritomb can spinblock with its secondary Ghost typing while also having a neat supporting move in Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers for its team. Drapion may not be that great, but it has TSpikes as well as Taunt and usable bulk to make setting up a bit easier. Heck, even Skuntank can be an effective Pursuit trapper thanks to its moderate bulk, good typing, solid power, and decent Speed. Crawdaunt doesn't have any of these forms of utility. It needs to boost its Speed to even have a shot at sweeping and its defenses aren't all that inspiring. Sure, it has powerful STAB moves, but Poliwrath and Ferroseed wall its STAB combination and both are pretty decent defensive Pokemon. (although Ferroseed does need to carry Seed Bomb) I think it needs to stay in Top C due to what S-R brought up as well as these other things.
  7. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    I'm on my phone, so sorry if this sucks, but I was the person who originally pushed for crawdaunt to be high C, and it's flaws are just as notible as they were before. Mainly it is too slow even after a boost and it has the defenses of a wet paper towel. Don't get me wrong it is a cool mon, I've tried band daunt with tailwind support and it wrecks souls, but it requires a lot of support, as it can't switch into anything really. The meta hasn't changed at all since it was dropped to high C, so this comes back to SilentVerse's point about people rank inflating mons they have used. Crawdaunt should stay high C, not because it is a bad mon, but because it requires a lot of support, or a very favorable team match up to function at all.

    Edit: anyone else think high A is too generous for Smeargle? The meta game is so prepared for sleep inducers, and in spite having access to literally every move, it only has like 2 usable sets, with very similar counters. Low/Mid A may be a better choice for how it functions in the current meta.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
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  8. Magnegun

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    I agree with Cinccino for Top B. While Cinccino is by no means a potent death sweeper, an excellent 115 speed and respectable 95 attack along with a 125 powered STAB Basically leave Cinccino as a very effective clean up mon. Once all it's resists are gone, this thing hits fairly hard, being able to potentially OHKO defensive slowking after rocks and always KO after 3 layers of spikes (With no rocks.) Cinccino is not without problems, it tends to get screwed over by moderately fast scarfed mons and steel types, but being able to OHKO top tier threats like Moltres, Kabutops and sceptile and obligatory neutral coverage with normal stab leave me to think Cinccino is perfectly where it is, perhaps even Low A but i'm not fussed.
  9. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    I'm not going to make any updates at the moment because there hasn't been that much discussion on the proposed Pokemon, but i'm actually here to make a proposal myself about a Pokemon that i think should be on the list (low on the list of course, but it still deserves a spot imo). This pokemon is Shedinja. (don't laugh :x)

    Shedinja has been shunned by most competitive battlers for quite a while despite its great number of immunities because of its vulnerability to passive damage, especially entry hazards, which actually OHKO it upon switch in, but after playing around with a Shedinja team i was lent by another player, i found that while it definitely needed quite a bit of support to function (this team had natu to keep hazards away which actually worked the majority of the time), it was quite an invaluable team member provided with this support. When hazards can be kept off the field, Shedinja's immunities make it quite the annoying Pokemon to deal with. Its immune to both U-turn and Volt Switch, allowing it to stop Pokemon trying to use these moves cold with a bit of prediction (especially choiced ones!) to avoid random hidden powers and other coverage moves then use a dry baton pass to grab momentum for its own team while the opponent is most likely forced out. It can check several big threats such as Durant, Escavalier, Medicham, Shell Smash Omastar and many more too thanks to its immunities to all but a few coverage moves they could possibly use (Rock Slide Durant mainly)! Escavalier has pursuit to hit Shedinja in theory, but it can't Pursuit Sheddy as it comes in because of Pursuit mechanics, dry baton passing lets it get away from Escavalier safely if Pursuit is used, if Escav is locked into any other move it can just go ahead and burn it. Shedinja just doesn't set there after walling something either, it has a decent base 90 Attack to work with along with a decently powered STAB move and priority in Shadow Sneak, Will-O-Wisp to inflict burn and slowly wear down bulkier Pokemon, and a slow Baton Pass to help you gain the switch advantage. Of course, as mentioned before to be able to do this at all Shedinja needs quite a bit of support: ways to get rid of hazards such as Kabutops and Natu are pretty much required (although spinning isn't too hard compared to other tiers), and Pokemon that can reliably take on the Pokemon that can hit Shedinja super effectively need to be covered. Provide that though, and Shedinja can be quite the cool win condition and pivot, and deserves a spot in somewhere around High D rank imo, but no higher.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
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  10. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Posting real quick to support Shedinja for D-rank. It's obviously pretty support reliant as well as a bit prediction reliant (though the better you know the metagame, the easier it is to use Shedinja for sure), but with some pretty big support from teammates, it can be really useful for an offensive team. With its slow Baton Pass, Shedinja can come in against something that can't touch it, force it out very easily, and pivot into something to check whatever comes in to beat it. This also allows for passive damage against Shedinja's checks, which helps to eliminate them later on in the match. The coolest part of a team with Shedinja though is the good Pokemon that you get to use alongside it. Moltres and Scyther are both really great Pokemon that both really hate Stealth Rock, but with so many preventative measures for Stealth Rock, it usually won't be up on your side to begin with. Shedinja is honestly more of a support Pokemon than anything else; using an offensive SD set is a really bad idea because of how easy it is to force out, but using it for the momentum it creates can be really valuable. Definitely not a top-tier Pokemon by any means, but certainly worthy of D-rank.
  11. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring to support Shedinja for high D (<-- wtf kind of saying is that). It is actually super annoying with a slow baton pass meaning if you support it correctly, it will gain you a shit ton of momentum, while having support moves like will-o-wisp, or decent attacking options like STAB shadow sneak (watch out for dragon oO. Also it is super annoying when the opposing shedinja dodges 1/1 will-o-wisp and 4/5 stone edges, smh.
  12. electricwolf

    electricwolf

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    I'm not a veteran but I've been playing quite a few RU matches over the last few days, and here are my (likely incorrect) opinions.

    I've never been up against a Moltres that made me re-evaluate my team. It might have great stats but that SR weakness is pretty crippling. If I don't completely fudge my predictions then I've usually got SR up in the first few turns which is 50% off it's health. If Druddigon is in on good health then I can usually Dragon Tail it out so that it'll die when it next switches in and if one of my mons is in bad health then I just let it die and bring in something that can usually OHKO Moltres.
    I have time and time again found in matches that my Magmortar set forces very easily predicted switches, such as people expecting a tbolt, switching to Quagsire and getting HP Grass'd.
    Whether or not it's how my team is built, I would not swap Magmortar for Moltres.

    4 attacks E-belt Eelektross is incredibly versatile, especially if you go mixed. I've seen plenty of people switch in Steelix after an Eel Superpower only to get a Flamethrower OHKO. At times I wish it had more bulk or speed but it does a great job, with amazing coverage and I've never really needed to change it for anything else. In an average match it gets between one and two kills because most people do not expect it to have 4 coverage moves. Quite a few people have lost Durants to the fact that they forget that Eel has flamethrower.

    Aerodactyl is great for the fast Taunt, Stealth Rock and because people usually predict it to have Edge/Quake. Having a predictable set is actually great because you can really surprise people when you don't have the standard set.
  13. EonX

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    Shedinja: I'd go for High D on this thing. My thoughts have p. much been covered already, but it is a neat niche Pokemon. Certainly not amazing or a top tier Pokemon, but it can work for you if you give it the support it needs (which is a lot, but eh, that's why it should only be D rank, right?)
  14. Omfuga

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    Basically agreeing with what Molk said. Shedinja has a total of 12 immunities (including an immunity to volt-turn) and is left untouched by almost half the tier! I gave him the team he was referring to, and with natu and spinning support shedinja almost always gets a chance to shine. Natu works really well with volt-turn (which the team has), shedinja supports the volt-turn with baton pass, and overall a lot of pokemon that can stop the momentum are left helpless at getting their own momentum by being walled by shedinja attempting to use u-turn or volt switch. Shedinja can also use protect to utilize scouting for random moves, etc. If you choose not to use baton pass, you can use swords dance and sweep some teams with a surprisingly decent 90 base attack stat. All in all, shedinja is really good at walling a lot of stuff, but needs a shitton of support to work and still has quite a few weaknesses (dark, ghost, fire, flying, rock)
  15. SomeDrunkRockLee

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    One pokemon which isn't ranked at all and I feel should be is Zwelious; while somewhat outclassed by Drudiggon, who carries all important priority, better bulk, and lacks misses from hustle, Zwelious boosts the strongest outrage in the game (actually, I'm not sure this is still true with Kyurem-B running around, but still, it's more powerful than Rayquaza), powerful enough to get KOs that Druddigon, specifically banded variants, would otherwise struggle with. Additionally, Zwelious has the lovely advantage of being able to be used beside Druddigon; after luring in and heavily damaging physical walls, Druddigon can sweep much more effectively. Zwelious is a particularly good partner for Druddigon on Drag/Drag/Mag style teams, where he can power though opposition and open up a chance for Druddigon to shine.

    So, what tier should Zwelious be? My first inclination would be mid C rank; Zwelious has several "notable niches" in the RU metagame, possessing his unbelievably strong outrage and working as an efficient psuedo-supporter who aids Druddigon. Zwelious can facilitate the tanking of one of the most powerful and dangerous threats in RU, which is amazing in its own right.

    However, Zwelious is not without flaws; he possesses far less bulk than Druddigon, forcing him to only weaken a few threats before he falls to faster, powerful attacks. He also doesn't appreciate the extra weaknesses, allowing Pokemon like Gallade and Durant to force him out and use him as set up fodder. Lastly, Zwelious struggles from the slight chance that, due to hustle, his attacks can miss.

    While somewhat outclassed by Druddigon, I believe Zwelious has a definite niche in the RU tier.
  16. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas NIPPLE BLADES OF FURY
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    Umm Zweilous is already mid C...
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  17. Celever

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    Here is my problem with Shedinja, and it's something you've been saying all along: Shedinja requires a hell of a lot of support and he can do well. So can Farfetch'd. I've been playing with Farfetch'd in NU recently and you can get a sweep going letting Ninjask set up a bunch of speed boosts and a few Swords Dances. That's one pokemon support, Shedinja requires a rapid spinner, some resists for the various types it is weak to etc. etc. and a whole team must be built around it. Yes, the same can be said for Riolu, but Riolu actually has a fantastic niche in RU. Unless you wanted to because, "lol it's shedinja", why would you consider using Shedinja? The only thing I can think of is stalling the other team to death with a hell of a lot of resistances thanks to wonder guard, but Shedinja has terrible defensive typing anyway and most Pokemon in RU run coverage moves that beat it, for example the Fighting-Type Pokemon such as Hitmonlee use Stone Edge or Rock Slide, some Grass Types such as Lilligant or Sceptile run Hidden Power Rock. Flying-Type Pokemon are also quite common in RU and there is Absol who uses Pursuit all the time, and he is incredibly good and common. The sad thing is that teams could run a Fighting, Grass-with-HP-Rock, Flying-Type AND Absol-or-Spiritomb to some fair success depending on the last couple of Pokemon you choose. My point is that to use Shedinja you have to want to use Shedinja, you need a hell of a lot of team support which could be said about anything AND the types Shedinja is weak to are really common in RU. Leave Shedinja unranked.
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  18. Lasagne

    Lasagne "The light that stands out from the darkness"
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    apart from that team that popped up recently for shedinja, nothing has changed about it. It is still a terrible Pokemon and I don't know why people are suddenly bandwagonning for it to be moved up. Yes, it stops voltturn. Whoopee. Yes, its immune to a bunch of types. That's the whole POINT of shedinja. It requires an insane amount of support, to the point where a whole team had to be made around it for it to be even remotely viable. there were three ways to stop hazards being set up. If that's not too much support then I don't know what is. Shedinja is still terrible, and simply shouldn't be used unless you're a cheater like molk. Stay in e rank you useless bug
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  19. SomeDrunkRockLee

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    Oh really? I must of must have missed it while scanning over it... I used ctrl-F too and didn't find it lol...

    Maybe because I was spelling it wrong D:
  20. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    i agree with Celever. The thing about Shedinja is that 90% of the time I see one, I am not kidding when I say every member helps it in some way, even if its subliminally. I mean, when you are required to use a Natu to make it work, you've gone too far at that point. With support anything can work, and Shedinja is truly a gimmick at best an the amount of support it needs makes it only work on a team 100% focus around it and only it. Almost every single common threat beats it easy as well - other than Uxie all of the S-Rankers and almost all the A Rankers, have ways to easily dispatch of Shedinja. Keep it in E, its not worth it.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
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  21. Omfuga

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    The second you compared it to farfetch'd your argument was completely moot. Farfetch'd is a horrible pokemon regardless of what kind of support you bring to the table. Even so, no matter what support you gave it it would be a worse generic flying-normal type than every other one in the tier anyway. Also, the reason people want shedinja to be a D+ in the first place is that it needs so much support. Shedinja also has a niche that literally no other pokemon in the whole game-- not just the RU tier-- can fulfill. If shedinja didn't need to worry about spikes or stealth rock obviously it would be much higher such as a B or an A, but the whole reason they're attempting to make it a D+ is due to the fact that its massive necessary support is a hindrance.
  22. Celever

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    I will go through your 2 points sepeately.

    "Farfetch'd sux".

    I know that Farfetch'd is a terrible Pokemon, however it can still work with a hell of a lot of support. Replace Farfetch'd with Shedinja and you basically have a description of Shedinja. The whole point of the comparison is that Farfetch'd actually needs less support from Shedinja in a way, one-Pokemon support in Ninjask, and it can sweep against the right team match up. Shedinja can't boast this, as it also needs a Rapid Spinner, type resists, lures, rest of the team etc. etc.. Also, "it would be a worse generic flying-normal type than every other one in the tier anyway" is something that I understand, however look at all Bug- and Ghost-Type Pokemon ranked on the tier list:
    The lowest Bug-Type Pokemon is Ninjask, and the lowest Ghost-Type Pokemon is Dusknoir. Both Ninjask and Dusknoir are better than Shedinja; this doesn't mean that Ninjask and Dusknoir are good, it means that Shedinja is worse.

    Ok for your second points I'm not quite sure you know how this system works. We are not ranking every random Pokemon, we're not going to have Ponyta and Happiny in Low D at some point, we are ranking Pokemon that are good, possibly better than just viable. D is for the odd Pokemon that have odd niches, such as Natu or Ditto, Low D is for the Pokemon who generally fail to give the support but the team isn't built around them, the majority of D-Rank Pokemon are support Pokemon. Ninjask, Natu, Audino and Dusknoir for example, these don't have teams built around them, they are part of the support a team uses. In fact, no Pokemon on the rankings has a whole team built around them besides Riolu, who actually has a pretty low-risk high-reward strategy if you can use it correctly. Shedinja can boast none of these things, and thus should not be ranked. Also, saying that without a hazards weakness Shedinja would be A or B rank really shows that you have no idea what's going on...
  23. Wepwn

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    So a pokemon with 12 resistances doesn't have a "odd niche"? Shedinja can shut down some of the most dangerous sweepers in this metagame such as Omastar, Durant as most don't run Rock Slide now, SubCM Uxie, Klingklang and this list can go on. Also you mentioned Absol can easily pursuit trap but what if its sash is still intact? Your absol will get straight OHKOd. We all know shedinja isn't a godlike pokemon but when used correctly it will probably be the most one of the most annoying mons you have ever played against. All in all shedinja does have a good niche in this tier, ye it needs some support but i doubt you have played a shedinja team being used correctly. It can come in on choiced locked pokemon and just get a HUGE momentum boost on your side with baton pass. Spinning isn't too hard to do in this tier as Kabutops can beat every ghost 1 on 1 and makes it so easy to get rid of hazards which obviously shedinja appreciates. I say Shedinja for High D because of it's shit ton of immunites, can stop some of the a lot of the deadly sweepers in this metagame and it can get your team a huge momentum boost when needed.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  24. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,713
    What exactly are the resistances, though?

    Normal, Fighting, Poison, Ground, Bug, Steel, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, Ice, Dragon.

    Of those, types with at least 2 notable users of them in RU:

    Normal, Fighting, Ground, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic (forgive me if I'm being a little harsh here).

    That's 7 immunities in all. Sure, that looks pretty good, but it is weak to:

    Flying, Rock, Ghost, Fire, Dark.

    Of those, types with at least 2 notable users of them in RU:

    Flying, Rock, Ghost, Fire, Dark.

    Plus, it is weak to all residual damage, hazards feature on most teams so that may as well be a type on its own... and so does residual damage like Toxic or Scald. Count both of that and Shedinja essentially has 6 weaknesses, or types it is weak to. You then need a Pokemon to account for all of these. At a glance, that would be a team such as:

    Shedinja, Steelix, Kabutops, Spiritomb, [filler] [filler].

    This covers all of the types decently, as well as a spinner. Now that's all well and good, but then what does Shedinja even do? Terribly weak Shadow Sneaks akin to a 0- Attack Spiritomb? Using it's masterful X-Scissor to dent the Grass-Types who will KO it anyway? Shedinja's only niche is having a bunch of immunities, 7 of which are useful and then having almost as many weaknesses that will certainly KO it with most of those types featuring as coverage option on other Pokemon anyway. By that I mean:

    Fighting, Ground and sometimes Normal and Grass Pokemon use Rock-Type coverage.
    Manectric and Grass Pokemon use Fire-Type coverage.

    This means that, as a whole, Shedinja walls a total of:
    Show Hide
    Accelgor
    Clefable
    Cryogonal
    Electivire
    Ferroseed
    Galvantula
    Klinklang
    Lanturn
    Poliwrath
    Quagsire
    Qwilfish
    Uxie

    13 Pokemon in RU, not even considering residual damage they may set up or inflict. Considering that, 7.

    This is of course common sets.

    Now, there are so many more than 13/7 Pokemon in RU. Some teams won't even feature any of these, particularly as most of them are incredibly uncommon (Quagisre? Poliwrath? Clefable? Klinklang?). There is 1 S-Rank threat in this, Uxie, who is a support Pokemon anyway. From memory, everything is else is B-Rank at best except for Qwilfish, who is another Support Pokemon. So this is this apparently amazing Pokemon, one who can wall 5 obscure (Accelgor, Clefable, Electivire, Galvantula, Klinklang) Pokemon and Uxie all the time, a variety of other Pokemon sometimes and ever more if you get lucky with the sets they are using.

    Shedinja doesn't have a good enough niche to be placed in D-Rank, leave the thing rotting in E.
  25. Wepwn

    Wepwn

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    317
    I clearly stated Shedinja builds huge momentum for your team when it comes in on a mon it can shut down. No one here has said that shedinja is a powerhouse, people that support shedinja are arguing the fact that it can build huge momentum and it can shut down deadly set up sweepers. Also, why are you listing the mons it walls when its clearly situational. What if lets say Rotom-c (which isnt on the list of what gets walled by Shedinja) is locked into Volt switch. What do you do? You're forced to switch out as the Shedinja simply baton passes out and gets a huge amount of momentum. You're not taking choice items into account which is what Shedinja loves coming into the most.

    I'm sticking with my word and saying Shedinja for High D

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