Claydol was a nice check to Landorus, since he is gone, Landorus isn't a bigger problem ? Even starmie is not really a safe switch to the scarf one, maybe trying Heatran w/ baloon, it's not really a counter, but he does help with DDnite @Outrage/EQ/ES-Fire punch , not being trapped by some dugs and it can save you from an EQ from ScarfLandorus like Pocket said.
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The Sun Rises
- Thread starter TGMD
- Start date
Bryce
Lun
yeah i had forgotten about dragons when suggesting Wobb.But i think you should find a better way of dealing with CM Latias.Phazing with roar is a temporary solution but it can still sweep as the last mon standing.Hydreigon is the only poke on your team that Latias cannot set up on(and victreebel to an extent).Besides it can dispatch Hydreigon with even an unboosted Dpulse if it had enough prior damage.I don't know which poke would offer u the best solution.May be sleep powder on Vic?idk coz that might ruin it's amazing coverage.Or u probably might have some method of playing around it.
As I've said I'm already testing Air Balloon on Heatran, lol. Thanks for the rate :)
Last poke Sub CM Latias isn't usually a huge threat, if I see a Latias on the opponents team all I really need to do is to save Hydreigon till the end and then set up a situation where it's Hydreigon vs last 2 pokes and he outspeeds and kills the first one then tanks a Dragon Pulse ((70.77% - 83.69%) from standard Sub CM Latias) and then he kills Latias. Or I start sweeping with Victreebel earlier on in the game and finish of their team. These aren't the most elegant solutions, but of the 2 times I've faced Sub CM Latias since adding roar on Ninetales, they worked. Thanks for the rate :)
I think you made a typo with Ninetales EVs. I suggest using this spread: 248 HP / 168 Special Defense / 92 Speed with a Timid Nature. It has the same HP and Speed as your current set, but you have 1 extra point in Special Defense than your current spread. It is not a huge improvement, but your team is really good and it is the only thing I could fix lol good job!
Thanks for the compliments Zeta :)
the spread you suggested dosen't give me an extra Sp.Def point, If I run Timid Nature with 92 speed EVs I hit 184 speed but when I change it to 96 speed EVs I hit 186 speed. This is because with a neutral nature and the same amount of EVs, I have 259 speed, when you change to positive nature: You multiply 259 x 1.1 which equals 284.9 this is rounded down to 284. If I start with the same original amount but add 4 EVs I get 260, mulitply that by 1.1 and you get 286 and I need to hit 285 to outspeed positive base 80s such as Mamoswine. Thanks for pointing out the typo though :)
I'd give a lot more props to this team if it wasn't just a rehash of the current highest luvdisc rated unarchived team, Eruption by Harsha. Basically the same, changing Venusaur for Victreebel and Dragonite for Hydreigon. But, if that got 87 luvdisc, I guess this should get around the same. Obviously it's a solid team, if very unoriginal.
Bloo
Banned deucer.
If you want to post in this thread and point out flaws and whatnot, at least be civil about it and make a legitimate attempt to improve the team instead of trolling and making posts that add nothing to the thread. If you can't do that, then don't post and keep your comments to yourself.
This goes to everyone saying nothing but "good team" as well. At least add substance to your post. Thank you.
This goes to everyone saying nothing but "good team" as well. At least add substance to your post. Thank you.
Although I appreciate your constructive critisism, I'd have to disagree with you, all sun teams are rather similiar and often made up of Ninetales / Heatran / Chylorophyll user / Dugtrio. Mine is no exception and neither is Harsha's, I've tried to make this particular sun team somewhat original by basing it around a pokemon almost never seen in ou. None of my pokemon have the same sets as the one's in Eruption and my team originally had Claydol and wasn't changed to Starmie until after Pocket's suggestion, and even then it was defensive starmie rather than the offensive variant used in Harsha's team. Basically; although 4/6 of the pokemon in this team are the same as harsha's it functions differently and I can assure you it was never my intention to copy someone else's team then post an unoriginal, rehashed version. Thanks for the rate :)
After testing everyone's suggestions I've found out what has changed the team for the better and what has changed the team for the worst:
Accepted Changes
Leftovers ----->
Air Balloon - In testing I found that Air Balloon gave tran alot more freedom and allowed me to break dragonite's Multiscale more reliably, force out Scarf Landorus locked into EQ, and it even allowed me to trap a Hippowdon one time. I didn't miss Leftovers as much as I though I would and it allowed me to play Tran more aggressively - Suggested by bubbly, DestinyUnknown and Pocket.
Jolly + 31 Def IVs -----> Hasty + 0 Def IVs - Makes weaker hits take Dugtrio down to sash - Suggested by Harsha.
Claydol ----->
Starmie - This suggestion single-handedly made Choice scarf Politoed any specs'd water type and rain in general alot easier to beat. Starmie is able to absorb status and dish it out every now and then with Scald. Starmie also spins more reliably and decreases the threat level of Gengar, Mamoswine etc. - Suggested by Pocket.
Chesto Berry + Rest ----->
Leftovers + Roar - Although I miss the awesome recovery from Resto Chesto, Roar is essential for Sub CM Latias and having a Phaser is always helpful in tight situations - Suggested by Gr8astard and Pocket.
Rejected Changes
Hydreigon ----->
Rotom-C - This made me far too weak to Reuniclus, Cresselia etc. - Suggested by Moet.
Defensive Ninetales -----> Offensive Ninetales - I kept Defensive Ninetales because the offensive sets dont carry Roar and Roar is pretty muceh essential for Sub CM Latias - Suggested by DestinyUnknown, Harsha and Pocket.
Specs Hydreigon ----->
Banded Scizor - A good suggestion but one that overall made Volt-Turn and dragons a bit too much of a problem for my liking, it helped check some threats but overall the team won more often with Hydreigon than with Scizor - Suggested by DestinyUnknown.
RainTrap Tran -----> SDef Tran - Defensive rain got really annoying and so did not being to beat physical Dragons with Heatran - Suggested by DestinyUnknown
Specs Hydreigon ----->
Banded / DD Dragonite - Dragonite really helped me check sun better and Extremespeed helped with revenge killing, but I found that when I went up against Reuniclus, Cresselia etc. I would have to lock myself into Outrage to kill them and they would switch out, kill Dragonite then bring Reuni back in later and I'd have nothing for him, I tried Dragon Claw but it was just far too weak. The extra pokemon weak to stealth rocks was just downright irritating at times and there isn't enough support from the rest of my team for a second sweeper with DDnite. CBnite worked better but all the major issues still applied and late game Jolly Mamoswine was more annoying than ever. Overall I check sun well enough now with the Air Balloon on Tran so I dont need Dragonite for that, and I'm still yet to face a Sawsbuck - Suggested by Pocket.
Accepted Changes
Rejected Changes
Hey Doom,
I like the team structure a lot but Terakkion plus VoltTurn can really mess up this team even with proper prediction. Once Starmie is out of the way, Terakkion and other threats that starmie resists (Keldeo, Politoed, etc.) can really have their way with this team. Strong physical threats such as Breloom and banded T-Tar can also be problematic. Other than that, the team is very solid and with proper prediction can overcome most challenges. Luvdisc'd.
I like the team structure a lot but Terakkion plus VoltTurn can really mess up this team even with proper prediction. Once Starmie is out of the way, Terakkion and other threats that starmie resists (Keldeo, Politoed, etc.) can really have their way with this team. Strong physical threats such as Breloom and banded T-Tar can also be problematic. Other than that, the team is very solid and with proper prediction can overcome most challenges. Luvdisc'd.
Hey Mo, I usually play Starmie pretty carefully and it's very rare that I'll put it into a situation where it could die early on in the game. Anyway thanks for the compliments and Luvdisc :)
Hi there ! I'm happy to see an other sun RMT which is not very common at all so thanks for doing it ^^
First of all, I would like to talk about this Tran and sun in general. Since Solar beam + sunny day on tailes and MagmaTran were well known today by many players it was not so easy to trap all the weather inducers at the end of BW 1. I also find out and tried this Tran with a similar spread some monthes ago. Sure it is nice for trapping Politoed ( The defensive one ), it also provides the sun when needed and can still trap Hipodown ( air balloon have already been sugested so yes ) and Tyranitar. But the fact is that you can carry "only" one steel type in a sun team which is most of the time Heatran and this one can't check 2 Dragoons attack because of its spread. Plus it doesn't have Earth Power which is extremly important in order to deal with other Tran which is always painfull for a sun team.
Considering your team and what you wrote on the threat list it seems all good but considering opponent's "standard " teams it's not at all, why?
You said Dugtrio take care of Tyra but Also Tran and Volcarona and Bliss, Politoead, etc. However, dug also has to put Sealth rocks on the battlefield and the problem is that for example most of the sand have Tyra + Heatran, sun: Volca + Tran etc.
Concerning Dugtrio, it is the key for many sun team same for yours. But it is also a huge weakness since first you totally depend of it, plus, Pokemon which are able to set up enjoy coming on him. Dragonite, Gyarados, Gliscor( who is not in the T list), SDZor etc. etc.
They are all huge threat since we both know that Heatran will not have the balloon when this situation will happen. No sun yet, not sure to have SR but you just won the weather war and then?
If Dragonite has extrem speed you will lost Dug, Tailes and Victree will have a chance to die after the LO damage recoil.
Gyarados ( if not sr ) is not dead after a rock slide ( the moxie one ) and a Giga drain. DD on Dug and then 1 kill, it is at +2 more than 50% of its life Hydreigon can't take a bounce.
Gliscor Sub, you will sack tailes for sun and then?
Scizor will be a late game sweeper since as you said it has nothing to do against a tailes or Tran but he is able to stop your Victreesweep doing between 75 and 90% with BP.
All those threats are in green or are not even present in the T list :(
Concerning the suggestions:
Harsha already tell you about Duggy but I may add something else. I think Rock Tomb is the best move for Dug in this team instead of Rock slide. In fact what I said earlier was also true for my team long time ago and after checking his moveset I finally found this greeeeeeat move :d
Rock tomb is only 80% accurency and has "only " 50 power, yes but it still OHKO the offensive version of Volca and do not let the bulky version set up his speed. Same for the other Pokemon. then it means that Heatran, Hydreigon, Victreebel can still outspeed those Pokemon. Same for Gliscor, you rock tomb the acrobatics version and you will outspeed him with all your Pokemon. And to conclude, if you are facing a Choice scarf Politoad but you didn't know so you trapped it with magma on the switch but kill you with hydro. Then dug, Rock tomb, you outseed him now and you have 1%, reversal GG.
After this, I can't really suggest you to change your heatran or something but I really do not aprove the choice of Starmie... Same for Claydol. Starmie is a spiner ok but without HP fire, Ice beam or Thunderbolt... It is useless in the team. Pokemon can set up on him, Jellicent walls him, Ferothorn too and may paralyse a member of the team.
Who is your lead when there is a Landorus in the oposite team now? Well I don't know what to say... Otherwise you need EP or Focus Blast on Hydreigon for Tran.
I can't say more right now I guess... Hope I helped and sorry if I talked like if I was knowing all about Poke lol It is just that I have a similar team and did a tone of matches with it...
First of all, I would like to talk about this Tran and sun in general. Since Solar beam + sunny day on tailes and MagmaTran were well known today by many players it was not so easy to trap all the weather inducers at the end of BW 1. I also find out and tried this Tran with a similar spread some monthes ago. Sure it is nice for trapping Politoed ( The defensive one ), it also provides the sun when needed and can still trap Hipodown ( air balloon have already been sugested so yes ) and Tyranitar. But the fact is that you can carry "only" one steel type in a sun team which is most of the time Heatran and this one can't check 2 Dragoons attack because of its spread. Plus it doesn't have Earth Power which is extremly important in order to deal with other Tran which is always painfull for a sun team.
Considering your team and what you wrote on the threat list it seems all good but considering opponent's "standard " teams it's not at all, why?
You said Dugtrio take care of Tyra but Also Tran and Volcarona and Bliss, Politoead, etc. However, dug also has to put Sealth rocks on the battlefield and the problem is that for example most of the sand have Tyra + Heatran, sun: Volca + Tran etc.
Concerning Dugtrio, it is the key for many sun team same for yours. But it is also a huge weakness since first you totally depend of it, plus, Pokemon which are able to set up enjoy coming on him. Dragonite, Gyarados, Gliscor( who is not in the T list), SDZor etc. etc.
They are all huge threat since we both know that Heatran will not have the balloon when this situation will happen. No sun yet, not sure to have SR but you just won the weather war and then?
If Dragonite has extrem speed you will lost Dug, Tailes and Victree will have a chance to die after the LO damage recoil.
Gyarados ( if not sr ) is not dead after a rock slide ( the moxie one ) and a Giga drain. DD on Dug and then 1 kill, it is at +2 more than 50% of its life Hydreigon can't take a bounce.
Gliscor Sub, you will sack tailes for sun and then?
Scizor will be a late game sweeper since as you said it has nothing to do against a tailes or Tran but he is able to stop your Victreesweep doing between 75 and 90% with BP.
All those threats are in green or are not even present in the T list :(
Concerning the suggestions:
Harsha already tell you about Duggy but I may add something else. I think Rock Tomb is the best move for Dug in this team instead of Rock slide. In fact what I said earlier was also true for my team long time ago and after checking his moveset I finally found this greeeeeeat move :d
Rock tomb is only 80% accurency and has "only " 50 power, yes but it still OHKO the offensive version of Volca and do not let the bulky version set up his speed. Same for the other Pokemon. then it means that Heatran, Hydreigon, Victreebel can still outspeed those Pokemon. Same for Gliscor, you rock tomb the acrobatics version and you will outspeed him with all your Pokemon. And to conclude, if you are facing a Choice scarf Politoad but you didn't know so you trapped it with magma on the switch but kill you with hydro. Then dug, Rock tomb, you outseed him now and you have 1%, reversal GG.
After this, I can't really suggest you to change your heatran or something but I really do not aprove the choice of Starmie... Same for Claydol. Starmie is a spiner ok but without HP fire, Ice beam or Thunderbolt... It is useless in the team. Pokemon can set up on him, Jellicent walls him, Ferothorn too and may paralyse a member of the team.
Who is your lead when there is a Landorus in the oposite team now? Well I don't know what to say... Otherwise you need EP or Focus Blast on Hydreigon for Tran.
I can't say more right now I guess... Hope I helped and sorry if I talked like if I was knowing all about Poke lol It is just that I have a similar team and did a tone of matches with it...
Lol, thanks for the compliments Ducktux :)
Hey Grimm70, when I see the team preview I take mental notes of the main threats in my opponents team, how I'm going to beat them and what I need to be careful of. Obviously I'm going to make sure I dont put myself in a situation where I'm going to get swept. If a Dnite comes in on dug I go to Tran and beat it 1v1, a Gyrados comes in on dug then I beat it with Hydreigon, if a gliscor comes in on dug I make sure I have sun, break it's sub and reveege with Victreebel, although Scizor can stop my sweep it is still easily handled by Ninetales and Heatran. Overall as long as I dont play bad and make sure my key pokemon for checking the threats on the opponents team stay at the health they need to be, none of the threats you mentioned will sweep me.
Rock Tomb does not actually OHKO any Volcarona, it does (72.03% - 86.17%) to 0/0 defenses Volc, although the idea is cool the main reason I switched to Rock Slide is the accuracy and still being able to KO dangerous Volcarona's and Rock Tomb does neither of those 2 things. You said I would try to trap Politoed with Heatran and then find out it's scarf and Heatran woudl die, but I always scout what Politoed set my opponent is using earlier on in the game with Starmie. If there's a landorus on the opposing team I lead with Starmie and it can just heal off U-Turn damage with Recover, Landorus is a threat but my team does manage it well enough especially with the change to Air Balloon on Tran. In regards to EP / Blast over U-Turn I can just U-Turn anyway on the predicted Heatran then go to dug and trap without even needing to waste my Focus Sash, I will just force Heatran out with something else and trap him later if dug will become set-up fodder for something too dangerous on the opposing team. A downside to running EP / Focus Blast on Hydreigon is that it requires more risky prediction, if I'm up against a mon slower than me and I predict Tran and U-Turn but they stay in then it's fine I can go to my appropriate counter, but in the same scenario I use EP / Focus Blast on predicted tran but they stay in then they can KO me back. Obviously you can factor in risk vs reward but overall it's easier to eliminate Heatran with U-Turn. Anyway, thanks for the rate :)
I was sure about the OHKO, sry.
Well your are talking in a situation in which you trapped the Weather inducer in the first turns. But most of the time you will have already lost the balloon on Tran and take some damages on both Hydreigon and Tailes too. Concerning Gliscor, I'm talking about the jolly acrobatics one which is a huge threat for all sun teams.
252 Atk Flying Gem Gliscor Acrobatics vs 0 HP/0 Def Hydreigon: 72,92% - 86,15% (2 hits to KO). So with Sr and if he already lost some HP Gliscor will finish the team.
252 +1 Atk Gyarados (+Atk) Bounce vs 0 HP/0 Def Hydreigon: 74,77% - 88% (2 hits to KO). SR and sand damages will finish him if full life.
[/QUOTE]
hey,
i recommend you switch the heatran EVs:
60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd -> 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
this lets him outspeed base 70 positive natured pokemon, most importantly speedy breloom (revenge sleep) and specs politoed (oneshot with solar beam, though you give them 1 free turn to setup), and also speedy metagross (pretty uncommon tho)
also i hate magma storm 75% = 0%
i recommend you switch the heatran EVs:
60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd -> 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
this lets him outspeed base 70 positive natured pokemon, most importantly speedy breloom (revenge sleep) and specs politoed (oneshot with solar beam, though you give them 1 free turn to setup), and also speedy metagross (pretty uncommon tho)
also i hate magma storm 75% = 0%
Hey Grimm70, first of all I knew you were talking about acrobatics Gliscor and if I've just trapped sand inducer then I'm going to go to Ninetales while they sub up then I just go to whatever to break their sub and revenge with Victreebel. Jolly Acrobatics isn't that common because Adamant nets a few crucial OHKOs and if they're Adamant then Hydriegon breaks it's sub then finishes it off without even needing Victreebel. Acrobat Gliscor cant sweep me, even Starmie can break it's sub. The Gyrados situation falls under me not putting myself in a situation where I'm going to be swept, if Stealth Rocks are up, I wont trap their Tyranitar with Dugtrio until those Stealth Rocks are gone. As I said I keep my crucial pokemon healthy. I have been testing a bulkier Hydreigon set for awhile (revenging Banded Haxorus isn't something I do with Hydreigon often), and I'll make sure Hydreigon can live a +1 bounce and 2 turns of sandstorm damage. Thanks for the rate :)
Hey thesandman, Jolly Breloom is unheard of in BW1, lol. Timid Specs Politoed is pretty uncommon as well but as long as those extra 8 HP EVs dont let me survive anything Crucial, I will change to your spread. Thanks for the rate :)
Motagua
El Ciclón Azul
Hey bro, my apologies for being absent and ignored your previous PMs. Lol I always knew from the inside that since we battled with our Sun teams, you would be working on yours. I should say this is an excellent team of yours and you really outdid it with Victeebel. My only suggestion would be to use an IV of 31 HP and add 12 HP EVs. The main reason why is because it will allow Dugtrio to survive 2 Seismic Tosses if he switches into SR. That way, you will be able to still trap Blissey and deeply hurt her with a full powered Reversal. Since your Starmie can´t defeat Jellicent, Rapid Spinning against Stall-teams will prove to be really dificult and you will aprecciate on eliminating their only dedicated counter to Victreebel. Hope this helps and good luck :]
Hey Motagua,
that's a pretty situational situation and I'd really have to make sure they have rocks up and nothing else and the rest of my team isn't going to appreciate playing while rocks are on the field. Although that will be somewhat inevitable while their Jellicent is alive the pink blobs aren't neccesarily always on stall and even if they're on stall they wont necesarily have a Jellicent. Victreebel actually beats the pink blobs 1v1 anyway, unless they have Flamethower or Thunder Wave on their pink blob Victreebel will be able to sweep stall when the time is right. But you're right, my starmie dosen't beat Jellicent and it would be great to beat the pink blobs 1v1 with rocks up. I'll test it out and decide after that, thanks for the rate :)
Hey Doom, although I haven't played in a while and my current meta-game knowledge is lacking, it's pretty easy to see that this a very well built team that beats down opposing weather effectively and sweep with such an underrated pokemon. Amazing presentation and originality, great job bro! Luvdisc'd
Hey Ripamon, thanks for the compliments bro :)
This seems to be a very well rounded team with little weaknesses, but i must ask, would this team work well on pokemon bw wifi random matchups?(you can only use 3 out of your 6 pokemon)
Hey FatPokeFan, I don't know anything about wifi random matchups other than what you just told me, but I don't think it would work that well with just 3 pokemon. The 6 pokemon in the team all work in a unified goal to get Victreebel to sweep, and all 6 pokemon play vital support roles to make that happen. Anyway, thanks for the compliments :)
