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The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"
- Thread starter Kir
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Arceus being released in US isn't changing anything in ubers. Its the same L 100 one as Japan (aka Farceus), so unless the EV restrictions can be implemented on the ladder, Arceus can't be allowed.
All we can do is hope Gamefreak does us all a favor and give us an Azure Flute event soon.
Also, what do you guys think about Latias? I feel that is a bit underrated in ubers (20th usage in September) and yet I found it is always a reliable staple to the majority of my uber teams. The standard CM/D-Pulse/Thunder/Recover generally works wonders, and it counters Kyogres even more reliably than Palkia does. Scizor may detor it with its growing uber usage, but Soul Dew Thunder (especially after a CM) can take out any that have taken some prior damage. Any reason why its not used so much? Or is its low usage simply because Latios exists and takes away potential usage of Latias?
All we can do is hope Gamefreak does us all a favor and give us an Azure Flute event soon.
Also, what do you guys think about Latias? I feel that is a bit underrated in ubers (20th usage in September) and yet I found it is always a reliable staple to the majority of my uber teams. The standard CM/D-Pulse/Thunder/Recover generally works wonders, and it counters Kyogres even more reliably than Palkia does. Scizor may detor it with its growing uber usage, but Soul Dew Thunder (especially after a CM) can take out any that have taken some prior damage. Any reason why its not used so much? Or is its low usage simply because Latios exists and takes away potential usage of Latias?
Well, I guess the only point is if you want to use this MewTwo on Gravity based teams. Abusing Groudon and Garchomp with almost un-resisted Earthquake (Celebi is rare and only popular grass type in Ubers is Shaymin-S and to some extent Ludicolo, which won't enjoy taking strong Eartquakes anyway) is interesting idea at least. Maybe it's worth a try ?
I think that Palkia is better on a stall team than Latias because it can do something to Darkrai and Mewtwo.
CB Groudon with Gravity is awesome. My gravity team was:
Deoxys-A(lead, SR...)
Jirachi, Blissey (gravity)
Specs Palkia, CB Don and LO Mewtwo with Dynamic punch and elemental 120 base attacks
With SR, CB Don OHKOs the standard Gira-O with EQ. A big thing, considering that Gira has base 150 HP and base 100 Def.
CB Groudon with Gravity is awesome. My gravity team was:
Deoxys-A(lead, SR...)
Jirachi, Blissey (gravity)
Specs Palkia, CB Don and LO Mewtwo with Dynamic punch and elemental 120 base attacks
With SR, CB Don OHKOs the standard Gira-O with EQ. A big thing, considering that Gira has base 150 HP and base 100 Def.
It is true. Latias and Latios are often not used on the same team, so they have to compete for a team spot.
I always prefer Latias, more reliable. I don't use Latios.
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs:112 HP/192 SAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot/Refresh/Safeguard/Thunder
I prefer Grass Knot over Thunder because of accuracy. Grass Knot is just as good as Thunder.
I might try Gravity sometimes.
Celebi
I always prefer Latias, more reliable. I don't use Latios.
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs:112 HP/192 SAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot/Refresh/Safeguard/Thunder
I prefer Grass Knot over Thunder because of accuracy. Grass Knot is just as good as Thunder.
I might try Gravity sometimes.
Celebi
Well, you fail to really hurt special defensive Skarmory, Forretress, Metagross, or Heatran very hard with Grass Knot > Thunder, which IMO is worth losing to Tyranitar.It is true. Latias and Latios are often not used on the same team, so they have to compete for a team spot.
I always prefer Latias, more reliable. I don't use Latios.
Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs:112 HP/192 SAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot/Refresh/Safeguard/Thunder
I prefer Grass Knot over Thunder because of accuracy. Grass Knot is just as good as Thunder.
I might try Gravity sometimes.
Celebi
agreed, and you can add scizor to that list
the latias i always used on my best team was roost / grass knot / dragon pulse / Hidden Power Fire.
Seems gimicky and it was, but it fit perfectly on my dont let forry even survive one attack team.
Seems gimicky and it was, but it fit perfectly on my dont let forry even survive one attack team.
Yeah, I thought I had him on there, I guess I forgot.
I have been trying an interesting Blissey set on my Uber stall team, it really is a great answer to so many threats.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Toxic
- Snatch
- Thunder / Grass Knot
Toxic & Snatch deal with any Latias which has Refresh. Snatch also steals Substitutes, Calm Minds, Recovers, and so on. It's just great because Blissey with a Calm Mind or two can take special hits like a fucking champ (even moreso than already). I just love using it, it's won me quite a few games now.
Grass Knot is an alternative for stuff like Groudon, while still hitting Kyogre.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Toxic
- Snatch
- Thunder / Grass Knot
Toxic & Snatch deal with any Latias which has Refresh. Snatch also steals Substitutes, Calm Minds, Recovers, and so on. It's just great because Blissey with a Calm Mind or two can take special hits like a fucking champ (even moreso than already). I just love using it, it's won me quite a few games now.
Grass Knot is an alternative for stuff like Groudon, while still hitting Kyogre.
You know, a really overlooked Ubers pokemon is Shedinja. While it may appear gimmicky (and may BE gimmicky) if you're running a stall-ish team, and have a Forretress to Rapid Spin, you should try out Shedinja. The list of pokemon it walls is by no means short, and walling anything in Ubers is impressive. Mewtwo without Flamethrower, Kyogre, Palkia without Fire Blast, defensive Groudon... the list goes on. The only notable Uber pokemon that almost always carry super-effective moves are: Darkrai, Ho-oh, Giratina-o, and Garchomp. While this sounds like a lot of Pokemon, that means that everything else can't really touch Shedinja. Also, if you're going to have Rapid Spin support anyways, sticking Ho-oh on a team isn't such a bad idea either. However, by doing this you take a big risk because if you can't get rid of Stealth Rock, it's essentially 4 vs 6, since neither Shedinja or Ho-oh will be doing much with Stealth Rock screwing them over. An effectively used Shedinja is quite beastly, and I have lost many a game before due to this annoying little bug. Try it out.
I thought this would be a nice place to ask...so I'm about to prepare to SR for a Dialga in my Platinum and I was wondering what was the most versatile nature for it. I like the Hasty Scarf set, but there's probably better revengers in the uber metagame. Mild sounds appealing too, but doesn't seem it can be used for much more than the mixed attacker set. This is difficult to decide on...
Probably Hasty (Mixed Dialga, Scarf Dialga) or Timid (Specs, Scarf) are probably the best natures for Dialga. If you need to lower defences, always lower physical ones - Dragon/Steel gives you tons of good resistances, but most of them are special ones (Grass, Electric, Water, Ghost, Dark, etc.) so lowering special defence in that case is worse choice. Also Dialga has only two weaknesses - Ground + Fight and those attacking types are mostly physical.
I'll probably go for Hasty then. Thanks a lot for your input.
Hm on my Platinum, I use a Quiet Dialga. Switching in is no problem and I feel Base 90's that don't invest fully in Speed are too slow. The extra bulk helps and Dialga still packs enough of a punch to hurt a lot of things. Sometimes, I even slap on a Specs. STAB Specs Meteor from Dialga hurts a lot and Outrage still does decent damage but whatever.
I also prefer Latias. I find Latias has just enough bulk with 6HP to live many special super effective attacks that Latios would fail to. I also think with residual damage, such as Stealth Rocks and Spikes, Latias achieves most of the KOs Latios can with Soul Dew, so its almost as good. In Ubers, not being wiped out in a single turn is invaluable, given the power of everything.
Normal SD Arceus looks scary...
I also prefer Latias. I find Latias has just enough bulk with 6HP to live many special super effective attacks that Latios would fail to. I also think with residual damage, such as Stealth Rocks and Spikes, Latias achieves most of the KOs Latios can with Soul Dew, so its almost as good. In Ubers, not being wiped out in a single turn is invaluable, given the power of everything.
Normal SD Arceus looks scary...
Hmm it's been a while since I posted here
After a month of extensive testing (well, from the moment HGSS moves are placed on the server), I've found Ho-oh to be a great success. It effectively handled most of the weaknesses my old stall team has (Shaymin-S, Darkrai, Deoxys-A lead, and even SubPunch Palkia/Mix Dialga in the sun, as well as Outrageless MixRay), and possesses a ridiculous amount of power and bulk. Despite Stealth Rock, Ho-oh has been perhaps the most effective tanksweeper I have used, since it is just really hard to take down (unless you have spinblocker + kyogre, but even then you could still have problems due to Brave Bird). Not to mention Ho-oh can occasionally break stall with its insane power, bulk, and entry hazards. I invite all of you to try this Pokemon out.
Obviously this doesn't mean stick it into a team and be done with it...
[RANT TIME]
Speaking of sticking things into a team, I've been seeing many offensive teams that have standard wall Lugia there simply just to check things. DO NOT DO THIS! Lugia is one of the biggest Forretress and Wobbuffet set up baits in the game, and it'll actually end up hurting your team because of all the entry hazards from the former and set ups from the latter. Not to mention how easily Lugia can be Wobbtickled (ESPECIALLY if it doesn't have Toxic to at least wear wobb down), and then later on once that's gone Wobbuffet can try finding another place to switch in and hope to set up Rayquaza or something dangerous.
Lugia's main strength is being able to phaze very well with entry hazard support thanks to its titanic bulk. It can live for a long time and seriously harass people. But sticking it just to check threats is just plain disgraceful IMO.
After a month of extensive testing (well, from the moment HGSS moves are placed on the server), I've found Ho-oh to be a great success. It effectively handled most of the weaknesses my old stall team has (Shaymin-S, Darkrai, Deoxys-A lead, and even SubPunch Palkia/Mix Dialga in the sun, as well as Outrageless MixRay), and possesses a ridiculous amount of power and bulk. Despite Stealth Rock, Ho-oh has been perhaps the most effective tanksweeper I have used, since it is just really hard to take down (unless you have spinblocker + kyogre, but even then you could still have problems due to Brave Bird). Not to mention Ho-oh can occasionally break stall with its insane power, bulk, and entry hazards. I invite all of you to try this Pokemon out.
Obviously this doesn't mean stick it into a team and be done with it...
[RANT TIME]
Speaking of sticking things into a team, I've been seeing many offensive teams that have standard wall Lugia there simply just to check things. DO NOT DO THIS! Lugia is one of the biggest Forretress and Wobbuffet set up baits in the game, and it'll actually end up hurting your team because of all the entry hazards from the former and set ups from the latter. Not to mention how easily Lugia can be Wobbtickled (ESPECIALLY if it doesn't have Toxic to at least wear wobb down), and then later on once that's gone Wobbuffet can try finding another place to switch in and hope to set up Rayquaza or something dangerous.
Lugia's main strength is being able to phaze very well with entry hazard support thanks to its titanic bulk. It can live for a long time and seriously harass people. But sticking it just to check threats is just plain disgraceful IMO.
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