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Gen 5 The Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Now Taking Write-Ups)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Tobes, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    I added Keldeo to low C rank. Alos, I wanted to bring up a few possible changes for discussion.

    Dark Arceus rise to mid B rank: Although it may seem like this mon has become mediocre with Genesect everywhere, that's actually one of it's strengths in a way. With the rest EV spread, it becomes extremely effective at pressuring and wearing down Genesect which has come to be a lot of teams' main (and sometimes only) check to it. This makes cleaning up with a Mewtwo much easier. (who can also punish the Fight Arceus Darky lure out) The bulky Dark typing has quite a bit of uses for things like Ghost Arceus and Mewtwo which tend to plague offensive teams while at the same time being effective against Stall teams.

    Salamence drop to high C rank: Honestly, this thing is just way too fucking weak to do what you'd want it to do. It's not going to do jack against Stall and even Offense often has a bulky Arceus which'll screw it over. (on top of stuff like Genesect checking it) To show you what I mean check out these calcs,

    252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 172-204 (38.73 - 45.94%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 258-304 (58.1 - 68.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 157-186 (55.47 - 65.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    If you ever want to 2HKO a bulky Arceus switch in you need to have SR + Spikes up. Now this wouldn't be so bad if the second and third calcs didn't tell you that you have to wear down the bulky Arceus AND Gensect to about 58% before you can actually sweep. Again, this wouldn't be so bad if you could fling out that kinda of damage without locking yourself in. Sadly, Outrage doesn't work that way which means you either have to go for the sweep or click Dragon Claw. (which I'm not even going to bother showing calcs for as it's depressingly weak)
    SmashBrosBrawl likes this.
  2. sammao

    sammao

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    Adding to this list, I would like to suggest Gastrodon and Thundurus-T to D-rank. After Latias get her soul dew back since BW2, I see no reason to use Gastro anymore, even on sand team Latias performs better. And for Thundurus-T, it is too frail, SR weak, still does not hit hard enough, and most importantly, lack a purpose. I mean why would I want this when Thundurus-I and other stronger monsters (Dialga, Palkia, Zekrom etc) are available? I mean you can use these monsters if you want, but why would you ever want to? This seems like to fit the definition for D.
    superstar likes this.
  3. superstar

    superstar

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    I agree with both of those; I also agree with Melee Mewtwo on his points about Arceus-Dark.

    Salamence has an excellent niche on physically oriented sun/weatherless HO as a cleaner (he's the star of my best BW2 team), but struggles to find a use beyond that, so high C is probably the best spot for him.
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    I only disagree with Gastrodon dropping because it can actually counter Lust Palkia unlike Latias which is important enough for it to maintain low C. (although it takes one dragon tail to fuck it)
  5. Nathaniel Br

    Nathaniel Br

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    Deoxys normal, if we're being honest, is low, not mid D rank. Totally outclassed in every measurable regard by either Deoxys attack or any number of dual screens users (Including Bronzong and the far better Deoxys S) it has virtually no niche except offering an offensive edge, which is not really enough to differentiate itself from the competition.
    Espeon for D rank. Somehow having an uber analysis it deserves no mention. One small mistake screws you over and it's out sped by almost every psychic type that rears it's head in ubers (Including the eaon twins) even the mildest mistake can screw it over due to it's mediocre special defence (especially by Ubers standards) and downright laughable defence.
    Abomasnow for low D. It can set hail which is always nice, and can beat some kyogre sets with the right investment. It's terrible I know, but still hail...
  6. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Espeon performed well enough in a very niche role. Hence the C- rank.

    With gen 6 Defog mechanics it pretty much loses its niche, but until the entire list is revamped for gen 6 it's fine where it is.

    I also don't see the point of nitpicking at placements within D rank. It's essentially a list of Pokemon you shouldn't use unless you're bored of everything that's good. Whether a Pokemon falls into "do not use" or "DO NOT USE" is pretty trivial.
    Kebabe likes this.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    Yeah, now that I think about it, it'd probably be better to just remove the High, Mid, Low for D rank.

    Also, this thread is only for Gen 5. We'll have a different one when it's time for gen 6.
  8. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo lol, nice
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    Alright, I removed the High, Mid, Low sub divisions for D rank because they are useless and misleading.

    Now, I want to propose that Abomasnow rises to Low C rank. Hail is a pretty useless weather and has nothing worht building around. However, Abomasnow is a decent Kyogre check and it's one that can also rob Excadrill and Swift Swimmers of their weather. That's a pretty significant niche (at least for a C/D rank mon) which is why I feel it deserves to be considered relevant.
  9. DontStealMyPenguin

    DontStealMyPenguin

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    Salamence is one of my favourite mons, but it really shouldn't be at high C rank, either high D or low C.

    Also why is gastrodon D????????
    It should be B IMO. It counters specs kyogre, non specs dialga, non specs palkia, and non-specs reshiram, 4 of the biggest threats in ubers.
  10. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Firstly, Gastrodon is Low C. Major difference. Secondly, what are the definitions for C and B again?
    Gastrodon is perfect for C rank. It has specific niches and viable defensive capability, but doesn't have the large offensive or defensive capability that B-rank requires. The things you stated, in reality, are just about the only things it counters, and even then it's still dependent on the set they run. Plus, you could put in Scarf Palkia to counter almost all of the things that you stated instead of Gastrodon, making Gastrodon sort of outclassed, making it even more fitting to have it in C rank. Just my 2 cents.
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  11. DontStealMyPenguin

    DontStealMyPenguin

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    Fair enough about the first part, but can palkia switch into a non-specs Draco meteor? If not, it can't counter dialga or reshiram or an opposing palkia or even a specs kyogre using thunder. It can merely check 3 out of the the 4.
  12. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    Why would you switch in Palkia on a Draco Meteor that isn't -2 already? Not just with dialga or reshiram, but ever? It's just like sending in a Salamence on an Outraging Kyub to set up a Dragon Dance. Scarf Palkia outspeeds and OHKOs all of the things you've stated besides Specs Kyogre (which does about the same amount of damage back imo, if both are using Thunder) and Dialga. So moving onto Gastrodon, the specially defensive (aka standard) set is 2HKO'd by Palkia's Outrage (This is literally on the standard scarf sets) with 4 EVs in attack. I'm not even counting Lustrous Orb or other boosting items. Without Earth Power, Gastrodon can do nothing to Dialga besides burn it, while Dialga can phaze it out with D-Tail or Roar (Standard moves). Reshiram is obviously going to be walled by Gastrodon, with the exception of Sunny Day sets, which mostly pack Solarbeam (This is an official set too). Gastrodon is the Specs Kyogre wall, however, which is where it gets its major niche. So 1 out of 4 things are walled, while the other 3 depend on the set, while Scarf Palkia destroys 3 out of 4 regardless of the set. Now do you see what I mean by "outclassed?"
  13. DontStealMyPenguin

    DontStealMyPenguin

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    I know you can't switch palkia into a Draco meteor, that's the whole point. You said ''Plus, you could put in Scarf Palkia to counter almost all of the things that you stated instead of Gastrodon, making Gastrodon sort of outclassed'', but in your last post you stated that it WOULDN'T be wise to switch in palkia to draco, and a counter is something that can switch into another poke and kill it in 1v1. Gastrodon however can switch into a Draco. Also, dragon tail won't do much to gastrodon but gastrodon's earth power will do reasonable damage to dialga. And how many palkias actually carry outrage?? Most have fire blast, surf, thunder, spacial rend.

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