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Theorymon Sessions - Ubers Edition

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Vertex, Jul 13, 2013.

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  1. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Theorymon Sessions - Ubers Edition
    Well, Ubers needs this, and I also wanted to post this because Theorymon would be sad. :( For those who don't know what this is, it's constant questioning on how a Pokemon effectiveness would be with a certain move, ability, or mechanic.​
    Example:
    [​IMG]
    What if Blaziken got Close Combat?


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  2. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    Well the obvious benefit here is that Blaziken's STAB is now much more reliable. I'm fairly sure that you don't miss out on any kills with CC that you would with HJK, and of course you lose that infuriating 10% chance of basically having your sweep stopped. However I don't think it would push Blaziken beyond anything else it is now. It's still really frail (which is exacerbated by CC), still incapable of breaking through Giratina, and still maintains its (very effective) role as a sun sweeper; but not much else. That being said, I think Blaziken would definitely appreciate CC.

    Now for my first theorymon...

    [​IMG]

    What if Latios got Flamethrower/Fire Blast?

    I think it's definitely reasonable flavour wise, as the anime shows Latios can shoot beams of energy out of its mouth.
  3. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Blaziken would definitely appreciate close combat since it is more consistent than low kick (low kick has 120bp on pretty much the whole uber tier bar stuff like skymin/darkrai etc) and its far more effective than HJK. Losing that 10% of losing half your life and losing some fear of those 50/50 predictions will help it immensely. Lowering its already pitiful special/def is inconsequential. Overall blaziken would definitely love close combat.

    What if kyube received icicle crash? Seeing as how it literally has no physical ice moves besides the laughable freeze shock, it wouldn't be too unreasonable to give it a powerful physical ice move.
  4. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    If latios got a real fire move it would make other dragons REALLY sad as access to fire moves are one of the main reasons to use them over latios. Something like draco meteor/psyshock/fire blast/filler (possibly hidden power ground for heatran, fighting for tyranitar or roost for recovery). The ability to ohko ferrothron, forretress and hurt jirachi while being able to use a different typed hidden power would definitely help. About kyurem-b it would definitely make it more popular as he could spam icicle crashes early game to destroy all the uber walls and 2hko ferrothorn easily and spam outrage late game to clean instead of being forced to use outrage early and get revenge killed. Now i have a proposal:
    What if Groudon was fire type?
    Aside from the typing changes im suggesting a movepool with flare blitz, flame charge, wild charge, no rock polish and no stealth rock. I think this change would make groudon a much more offensive pokemon as it would not longer be as effective at supporting without stealth rock, and the fire typing would prevent it from taking on threats like rayquaza and excadrill.
  5. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    If Groudon was Fire type it would suck.

    What if Slowking could use Eviolite?

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Slowking in rain: 151-178 (38.42 - 45.29%) -- 10.94% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
  6. polop

    polop
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    Slowking could also actually take on Mewtwo really well, it resists its entire movepool and can easily slack off any damage it does to it. It can then proceed to phaze the mon out or Toxic stall kill it. Since it also gets Fire Blast it can stop Forry / Ferro from setting up on it, unlike Lugia.

    For reference, if Mewtwo we're to get two Calm Minds up on it, this is how much Psystrike would do: +2 252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 72 Def Eviolite Slowking: 177-209 (45.03 - 53.18%) -- 35.55% chance to 2HKO

    Yeah it needs Shadow Ball but lol who carries that.

    Groudon would need a complete movepool revamp to take advantage of it being a fire-type. It might be cool to spam sun-boosted STAB Flare Blitzes until you realize Kyogre suddenly doesn't fear getting stomped by Earthquake anymore and can come in to it a lot more easily.

    What if Giratina could use Roost?

    This isn't exactly the most unique thing but its something. Lets face it, Rest sucks ;_;, roost actually makes sense since it has wings, and it would make it such a nicer wall in my opinion. It doesn't need two slots for recovery anymore (Rest + Sleep Talk), but I don't really know how it would take advantage of that, use Roar + WoW + Dragon Tail, HP Fire for Forry trolling? Giratina-o would benefit a lot from this too, as it can stop residual damage from accumulating so fast on it without relying on Rest...
  7. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    Roost would only really be useful for giratina-o since giratina doesnt really need 3 slots anyway and status ruins it. I have no idea how does eviolite slowking even make sense to begin with but anyway it would still be 2hkoed by specs/life orb thunders from base 150 or higher sp attack and it cant really stand up to physical attackers without invesment which coincidentally makes it lose against most special attackers. Also what exactly can it even do other than phazing anyway? A moveset of dragon tail slack off an attacking move and toxic is really the only way i can see it working and even then it gets walled by several threats depending on its attack choice. Also why would you use it over soul dew latias?
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  8. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Mechanics mean:

    A) A new Base Power such as Pursuit 40 ====> 60

    B) Something enters or leaves Ubers

    C) An ability gets buffed up (ex. Illuminate now gives all moves a 10% flinch chance)

    No type changing, evos, or whatever isn't a, b, or c. That's bad sinc esoon ill see eviolite arceus and Kyogre is Water / Electric type
  9. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    Oh ok. I though we could suggest about anything that made sense flavorwise. Ill think of something else then.
  10. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Hmm, there's some really cool ideas flowing around here. I brought this mechanic change up on Showdown not too long ago:

    What if Focus Blast had an accuracy of 85?

    How do you guys think this would effect the metagame? Would CM Ghostceus have a much easier time checking Arceus-Normal? Would Dakrai become even more powerful than it is now? What about Mewtwo, would it start running FB over Aura Sphere to hit even harder? This accuracy boost isn't the biggest change in the world, but would this slight tweak shake anything up?
  11. Bossness

    Bossness

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    I don't think Close Combat would help Blaziken. On the contrary, I actually think that it would hurt it more than it would help since the -1 Defense drop from Close Combat allows Arceus-Normal and Rayquaza to OHKO it with ExtremeSpeed. Blaziken already has Low Kick to hit everything for 100-120 damage.
  12. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    What if Dialga got Rock Polish/Agility?

    Rock Polish/Agility would be reasonable addition to Dialga's movepool giving it a new role of a late-game cleaner.I often find ubers lacking good and reliable cleaners other than Arceus Formes and sometimes RP Groudon(Kabutops and Excadrill are weather dependent).Dialga's bulk and typing will let it easily set up and prevent itself from being revenge killed via priority and nothing outspeeds Dialga's +2 speed tier except Jolly Excadrill in Sand assuming Dialga would be running modest.Dialga's STAB Dragon Pulse and lots of coverage options will let it excel in a cleaner's role in my opinion and the ease of stacking and keeping hazards in ubers would make it especially dangerous.How would such change affect the current ubers metagame?
  13. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    Eviolite Slowking
    While it would be bulky as all hell, so is Chansey, and that's not amazing either. Really you could slap eviolite on to any moderately fat pokemon and make it a somewhat viable wall in Ubers, don't see what makes Slowking special other than Regenerator.

    Roost Giratina
    I think both formes would love this, especially Giratina-O. It can now run a fearsome mono attacking sub CM set, with Sub/CM/Roost/Dragon Pulse. Fat Giratina would appreciate it too, as with a little speed investment it can now wall crazy stuff like Kyogre much more handily thanks to its new found reliable recovery.

    What if Focus Blast had an accuracy of 85?
    I'm not really sure how big an impact this would have. Mewtwo still can't OHKO Ferrothorn or defensive Dialga with it, so it would still prefer Aura Sphere or Fire Blast. CM Ghostceus still can't OHKO E Killer with even a +1 Focus Blast, so I don't see it benefiting greatly either. Darkrai's best set imo forgoes Focus Blast anyway (SubPlot) so while it would like the accuracy, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for it. I think it would just be generally nice rather than something earth shattering for the metagame.
  14. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Okay just so this thread won't become a pc++ one, I want to clarify this: 3 line posts are not accepted and you will be infected for them. Bring up a THEORYMON question (what if), explain what are its benefits, and try to determine impact on the meta - like new counters, new teammates, and possible role changes.
  15. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    Regenerator is the whole point, being able to come in and sponge random Draco Meteors and instantly switch out unscathed is an amazing utility. Furthermore, unlike Chansey, Slowking has a typing it can use to wall things like Specs Ogre Spouts, Mewtwo, Latios, Reshiram, etc. and it has the movepool to prevent it from being Spikes fodder (it even gets Magic Coat) which is the only thing really holding Chansey back from meh to hot dayum.


    As for Giratina, it would actually really like having that third moveslot. Not only does it get reliable, spammable recovery but the third slot can go into things like Outrage (cause you hate Ho-Oh) or Magic Coat (for Deo S and the Forry you are spinblocking) without having to get rid of Roar or WoW. Even if you are still worried about Toxic Forry, the RestTalk variant would always be there to do work as usual.

    Got nothing new to propose, still drooling over Eviolite Slowking.
  16. Darknesscrusher

    Darknesscrusher

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    What if Palkia got Water Spout?
    Palkia would have an amazingly powerful, 100 percent accurate attack on it's sleeve, and it can fire Water Spout off with a speed of 100, already great for using Scarfs. With a Choice Scarf equiped, Palkia can outspeed and severly damage a lot of Uber Pokémon, including Choice Scarf Genesect. Palkia's special attack is the exact same as Kyogre, so you miss out on any power.

    With the 100 speed, Palkia can run a Choice Specs set just as easily, or go for a lustrous orb, allowing it to switch moves. Palkia's typing is in general also a lot better than that of Kyogre, although Palkia doesn't bring the rain that Kyogre gives. I think though, that when Palkia (with Water Spout) is used with Kyogre, you have a great Pokémon that can punch holes like nothing in the enemy team.
  17. Spirit

    Spirit
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    OP: This is Ubers, aside from certain abilities or moves, things aren't really "broken" here. And Kyogre being banned isn't really a mechanic. :p

    What if Mewtwo received Nasty Plot?

    First off, this fits very well flavor wise because Mewtwo has always played the role as that mastermind villain. And hey, Mew gets it, so wynaut? In my opinion, Calm Mind isn't as hard-hitting as I'd like it to be. So a quick way to boost its Special Attack Stat would be pretty amazing. Mewtwo's movepool is also pretty expansive, so it can make good work of the move. I could still see bulky Calm Mind sets being a thing though. I think with Nasty Plot in its arsenal, Mewtwo can no longer be checked by defensive threats. It'd be Darkrai on steroids; a one mon, stalling murdering, bazooka. I could see the rise of lol Arceus-Psychic in order to check it. Stall teams would have to rely on that or something similar to beat it.

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 372-438 (92.3 - 108.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-O: 611-720 (121.47 - 143.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Giratina: 407-481 (80.91 - 95.62%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 199-234 (47.83 - 56.25%) -- 28.13% chance to 2HKO

    Hot damn, that's a hard hitter!
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  18. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Blaziken is already ridiculously frail in Ubers standards, and Close Combat's defense drop wouldn't really matter, since after one to two rounds of LO recoil, Silk Scarf Arceus easily KOs and same with LO Rayquaza's Extremspeed, iirc.
  19. polop

    polop
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    Rock Polish Dialga sounds interesting. Dialga can already clean up some weakened teams to an extent using Trick Room > Agility for a speed boost, but this boost is permanent. It looks like its only true counter will be Arceus forms + Chansey though but I can see someone making teams that are designed to weaken those mons. I don't like relying on weak Dragon Pulse for cleaning but it might turn out well.

    Something not mentioned about Nasty Plot Mewtwo is that Gene can't kill it with U-turn since it won't get the attack boost because of Calm Mind anymore, which is nice. The defense boost from Calm Mind was useful though for stopping some revenge killers (Scarf Palkia / Kyogre / Dragon with Draco Meteor and not Outrage in particular). The attack boost basically prevents it from getting walled though.

    Palkia with Water Spout IS VERY INTERESTING. Unlike Kyogre it can pair up that powerful attack with a strong Spacial Rend, but the thing is its main use IS switching into Specs Spout from Kyogre for most teams, so it might not always have that high HP number needed for maximum power spouts. You'd have to run it alongside another Specs Ogre switch-in if you wanted to use Palkia's spout consistently.

    What if Chansey / Blissey got Roar?

    They aren't setup anymore, and since practically everymon in the game gets Roar it wouldn't exactly be that out of the ordinary. I mean they're stealthy enough and scary enough to recieve SNATCH. Roar would prevent that Arceus normal from coming in and setting up a Swords Dance in your face, now you can phaze it out as it tries to setup and punish mons for switching out (and it already will force a lot of stuff to switch since it can come in and lol at Draco Meteors)! I don't know how much this would help Chansey but it sounds great. The only true problem is that MAJOR four moveslot syndrome but its not getting around that any time soon.
  20. Darknesscrusher

    Darknesscrusher

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    Hmm... Roar Chansey/Blissey seems pretty cool, it would mostlikely run it over Toxic. Blissey could only be forced out by the opponent getting lucky on Roar forcing out a counter to Blissey. But honestly, how does this make any sense flavor wise, it's a pink blob!
  21. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    So if any of you have been following Pokemon X&Y news, there's recently been a bombshell about Xerneas and Yveltal. Xerneas is a Fairy type with the ability Fairy Aura, while Yveltal is a Dark / Flying type with the ability Dark Aura. Fairy Aura raises the power of Fairy type attacks for every Pokemon on the field, while Dark Aura does that for Dark type attacks. Of course, stuff about Fairy Aura wouldn't fit this thread (If you really want to talk about Fairy types, there's a thread on this forum already that I don't mind any of you bumping), since we don't have enough info about the Fairy type.. I got two pieces of speculation for Yveltal's Dark Aura!

    1. What if Yveltal's Dark Aura is actually just a Dark type weather?!

    Oh boy, instead of taking the boring way out by saying "well it should only work while its out", I'm going to take the vague statement to the crazy route of speculating just how Yveltal bringing a Dark weather would affect Dark-type Pokemon in Ubers! That isn't crazy enough though, so for each Dark type Pokemon, I will have point 2 under them!

    2. What if Yveltal's Dark Aura is like a secondary weather, and can only be erased by Xerneas's Fairy Aura?!

    Oh one note, even though this is a gigantic post, there is probably a lot I'm missing here, so feel free to bring up other Pokemon I've missed, how non Dark types can take advantage of this, and interesting calculations I didn't go over!


    [​IMG]
    Darkrai
    1. First, lets focus on Darkrai before it gets a boost. Even without a boost, the results are immediately obvious: without Life Orb, you can still OHKO maximum HP Ghost Arceus after Stealth Rock + Spikes (dealing 77-91%). Also, Scarf Darkrai will no longer need Stealth Rock to OHKO Mewtwo, while with Stealth Rock, you have a 68.75% chance of OHKOing a Calm Minded Mewtwo! Hell, even Stalltwo is taking 97% minimum from Scarf Darkrai! Giratina formes aren't going to be happy either, since Dark Aura Dark Pulse OHKOs min HP Giratina-O, 2HKOs specially defensive Giratina, all without a boosting item!

    But enough about unboosted Darkrai. If you thought Darkrai was a fearsome sweeper before, imagine how crazy Darkrai will be when jacked up by Yveltal's steroids! Even without Life Orb, +2 Dark Pulse will have a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes on any max HP Arceus that doesn't resist it! Equip a Dread Plate, and then, max HP Arceus are actually OHKOed after just Stealth Rock. With Life Orb, +2 Dark Pulse will just flat out OHKO them unless they resist it! As you can imagine, if even max HP Arceus is fearful of Darkrai's denomic might under Dark Aura, most other Ubers get totally crushed by this thing!

    2. When it comes to speculation point 2, there is only one thing on Darkrai's mind: Screw off Kyogre! Since under this point, Rain can't get rid of Dark Aura, max HP Kyogre gets OHKOed by even +2 Dread Plate Dark Pulse after Stealth Rock! Hell, even Calm max HP max SpD Kyogre has a 75% chance of falling to +2 Life Orb Dark Pulse after Stealth Rock + Spikes o_O!

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Dark

    1. 4 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark (Judgment) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 296-350 (71.15 - 84.13%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Well that was quite a cold opening, wasn't it? Calm Mind Dark Arceus is already a neat little stall breaker, but I think Yveltal's Dark Aura injection could make Dark Arceus into something more! To give you a picture of Dark Arceus's new found strength, Judgment also has an 85% chance of 2HKOing Hasty Genesect after Stealth Rock, making Genesect a far less safe switch-in (though Dark Arceus is still going to hate its guts).

    After a Calm Mind is where the magic really begins though. Assuming only 4 Special Attack evs, +1 Judgment has an 85% chance of OHKOing Specially Defensive Giratina after Stealth Rock, pretty much meaning that anything that is weak to Dark is dead meat! +1 Judgment also does 65-77% to max HP Arceus, meaning that unlike regular Dark Arceus, Dark Arceus under Yveltal's Dark Aura will reliably 2HKO opposing max HP Arceus. Once again, if max HP Arceus is taking that much, this means that even with so little SpA investment, +1 Judgment is going to kick some serious ass! But let's say that isn't enough for you: If you really don't care about Arceus's amazing bulk, you can use max SpA, which will allow you to do stuff like OHKO max HP Arceus after Stealth Rock and Spikes with just one Calm Mind!

    2. This time, Dark Aura avoind Kyogre's stormy mood wings isn't nearly as dramatic as Darkrai's revenge, as you will sadly need Stealth Rocks and Spikes to even OHKO min HP Kyogre after Stealth Rock with +1 Judgment. You'll need 204 SpA EVs to OHKO min HP Kyogre after Stealth Rock. Even if you use max Special Attack, you are still going Stealth Rock + Spikes to OHKO maximum HP Kyogre. On the bright and sunny side, you have an 87.5% chance of OHKOing max HP Groudon after Stealth Rock!

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar

    1. I could talk about Unerve Tyranitar in Ubers... but I'll leave you guys to do that if you really want to. Half the reason I made point #2 was just so I could talk about Tyranitar!

    2. Here we go! Under a Dark and ominous Sandstorm aided by Yveltal, Tyranitar can kick new kinds of ass! For example, a Choice Band Tyranitar with just 64 Atk evs and Adamant does 40-47% to defensive Groudon. Not a 2HKO, but still a serious chunk of damage considering the fact that its Groudon! Kyogre on the other hand, isn't so lucky: 64 Atk Tyranitar OHKOs min HP Kyogre and Palkia after Stealth Rock, and with that + Spikes, can bring down max HP Kyogre too. Speaking of Stealth Rock + Spikes, you now have a 75% chance of OHKOing defensive Giratina after that, so if you catch Giratina in a bad sleep talk day, or set up a Safeguard with Wobbuffet, Giratina is a lot more sacred now! If Tyranitar wants to sacrifice bulk for power, you now have a 68.75% chance of OHKOing defensive Giratina after Stealth Rock, while max HP Kyogre is always OHKOed after Stealth Rock! Also,

    Also worth mentioning is Pursuit. If you say... switch Tyranitar into a Specs Kyogre Ice Beam, then Kyogre is really screwed! As for Giratina... use Wobbuffet Encore Will-O-Wisp, and use Safeguard... and Giratina might just cry for mommy Arceus! On another note, Purusit and Crunch actually do 53-62% to Naive Genesect. Max the attack score out, and Choice Band Tyranitar is dealing 60-71% to Genesect!

    [​IMG]
    Sharpedo

    1. Anyone who frequents #Pokemon should know that almost any time someone brings up Sharpedo in Ubers, I say "Sharpedo should get a Dark-type Close Combat". This dream sorta comes true under Yveltal's deahtly wings, but sadly at the cost of strong Waterfall. This might not be so bad though, since a lot more Pokemon in Ubers resist Water than Dark, so it mostly means that Sharpedo is going to problems with Steels that don't get owned by Earthquake, such as Genesect (though that is actually 2HKOed!).. On the bright side, Crunch under Dark Aura is no joke, with Adamant Crunch getting a clean OHKO on Ghost Arceus! Hell, specially defensive Giratina also gets OHKOed after Stealth Rock, while defensive still takes a serious 66-79% after Stealth Rock. Also, Sharpedo can finally show Kyogre and Palkia how brutal real shark attacks are, since min HP versions of both have a serious chance of getting OHKOed after Stealth Rock (68.75% chance for Palkia, 81.25% chance for Kyogre).

    Despite this good news though, I still feel like Sharpdeo is going to be a niche mon in Ubers, if only for those terrible defenses and needing support to get clean OHKOs against a bunch of mons. So if I were to use this thing, I'd probably give it Spikes support too, since then, you have a chance of blasting through a bunch more mons!

    2. Sharpedo is still gonna want Spikes support... but under point #2, Sharpedo can now eat Genesect and Darkrai for lunch, which is a nice plus!

    [​IMG]
    Sableye
    1. I'll admit it, I'm not that big of a fan of Sableye, so I don't have THAT much to say about it.. but I gotta admit, Foul Play under Yveltal's Dark Aura has some cool potential! For example, +2 Arceus now gets OHKOed by Foul Play after Stealth Rock! Ghost Arceus and specially defensive Giratina also now get 2HKOed by Foul Play, despite the low Attack stats o_O.

    2. Oddly enough, if Dark Aura were to work under tha rain, Sableye would actually 2HKO min HP Kyogre after Stealth Rock with Foul Play! You also now 2HKO Rock Polish Groudon. Support Groudon is still going to tank Sableye, but hey, at least you still have Will-O-Wisp!

    [​IMG]
    Weavile

    Poor Weavile, it has a great Attack and Speed stat, but the low base power of its moves just ruins everything. However, Yveltal's glorious death bringing wings could give it a small niche. With a Choice Band, Weavile's Night Slash finally OHKOs Ghost Arceus after Stealth Rock! And since Weavile is one of the few Dark types to outspeed Ghost Arceus, AND bypass its Calm Minds, that's great news! And of course, that powered up Pursuit means game over for Ghost Arceus! Unfortunately, you only have 62% chance of OHKOing Ghost Arceus after Stealth Rock if you use Life Orb. And even with a base 105 STAB, I'm really not sure if Weavile is that good... But on the bright side, it's certainly better than it was before!

    2. Dark Aura working under other weathers isn't that much of a great help, but on the bright side, CB Weavile can now OHKO minimum HP Kyogre after Stealth Rock and Spikes...

    [​IMG]
    Bisharp

    1. I have to admit, Bisharp is a fairly niche Pokemon already in Ubers... but damn, it's hard to deny the crazy power of a Sucker Punch under Yveltal's Dark Aura! Even without Swords Dance, Timid Palkia is OHKOed 81% of the time after Stealth Rock! Of course, this means that after a Swords Dance, attacking Bisharp for most Pokemon means death! Hell, +2 Sucker Punch actually OHKOs Genesect, and has an 87.5% chance to OHKO Terrakion after Stealth Rock... That is freaking crazy for a resisted priority move o_O. Also of note, the boosted Night Slash means that now, +2 Night Slash will cleanly OHKO defensive Giratina, which is a nice plus.

    2. If Dark Aura were to work under other weathers, this would mean that Kyogre would pretty much want to avoid dealing with Bisharp at all times, unless its one of those Roar Kyogre. Hell, even defensive Groudon has to watch out, since it's taking a crazy 76-90% from +2 Sucker Punch!

    [​IMG]
    Shiftry

    1. Ewwww, lets not even talk about Shiftry without the sun. That's like eating Pizza without cheese, or playing a mainline Mario game where Mario can't jump...

    2. Under a sunny Dark Aura provided by Groudon and Yveltal, Shiftry might have some neat potential with Wobbuffet support. +2 Dark Pulse is now a guaranteed OHKO on specially defensive Giratina and max HP Latias, which is good news since Shiftry would take a serious amount of damage from any of those! Even before a Nasty Plot, Shiftry actually has a 75% chance to OHKO Ghost Arceus after Stealth Rock! Some of you guys might have more to say about Shiftry, I haven't used it much this gen to be honest...
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  22. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Assuming of course dark aura works when yveltal switches out. Judging from the wording though it also works for your opponents in any case so it could be a double edged sword. I can't see darkceus going up much regardless. It'll just make scarfed darkrai a more appealing option than before since it has immediate power and can just trick the switch in the worst case scenario.

    edit: How big is the boost from dark aura? 1.5x?
  23. Vertex

    Vertex

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    They didn't release that yet. All they said that Dark-type moves do devastating damage, and Yvetal gets a move called Oblivion Wing
  24. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Well shiftry will still suck. Needing to win the pseudo/weather war twice is a incredibly tall order for something as undeserving as it. Without knowing how good Xerneas/Yveltal is, it's hard to say if dark aura will be worth it. Not to mention kyogre will still be omnipresent unless something drastic happens.

    Bisharp is a pretty niche mon...... Being slow as fuck and frail (65/100/70) doesn't really help it. It can't really set up a sd anywhere except for on dedicated walls. Without the SD boost it's 125 atk isn't really that special.

    Weavile seems cool but being banded locked into a dark move isn't the best idea with scarfed gene and the likes running around. It does have a pretty nice speed tier and ice stab is fairly nice but weakness to entry hazards means that it can't constantly come in to revenge kill.

    Sableye I can't say much about due to never seeing/using it outside that one research week but most teams that tried to randomly slap it on as a ekiller check didn't work so well. Stopping terra 75% of the time is hard to deny though.

    Sharpedo could be a better blaziken since dark/water stab with potential rain/dark aura is nice but it's really hard to judge since it absolutely hates priority and makes even blaze seem like a tank in comparison. Trading a gira counter for a dialga counter is arguably better however since dialga is seen less often and is easier to remove than gira is.

    The problem I have with tmon's explanation of ty-tar vs groudon/kyogre is that groudon will be able to massively dent ty-tar in any case even with minimal attack investment. Kyogre's in the same boat but non fully defensive kyogre's won't be able to take ty-tars hits anywhere near as well.
  25. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    FYI the thing about the TTar thing is that it assumes its on the switch, Tyranitar would obviously never stay in against those two lol. Still though, the fact that it can take that much off of Groudon when that was a common switch-in says something!

    Also, while I agree that Bisharp is still niche, 125 Atk is fine when you are launching off base 18o priority moves! The real problem is that Sucker Punch can be pretty easy to play around, so its not like Arceus launching off priority outrages or anything.
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