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There Were 190 Pokémon!

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Zog, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Tenodera


    Mar 27, 2011
    ^ From what I could tell, the Charizard/Garchomp thing wasn't trying to be that serious. Regardless, you can't say that Pokemon like Empoleon, Palkia, etc have much more extensive patterning that isn't as present in the first 2 gens. Bulbasaur's spots make sense since it's a frog and all. Dragonite's ventral lines are a reptile's large belly scales, and Karp's single scale row is a simple stylization too.

    I would really love to see some more recent unused designs. If there were so many "rejects" from 1st gen, there have to be some from the others!
  2. Unbreakable


    May 21, 2010
    Relevant, hopefully (please no thread necro):

    The Bulbapedia link in the OP now lists this thread as a reference. O_o
  3. JacobNinja


    Aug 5, 2012
    WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Never realized that. I'm such an idiot.
  4. DeoxysNA1


    Dec 2, 2013
    There's a website called Bulbapedia and it has some info on that
  5. farranpoison


    Mar 27, 2011
    Nice necropost.
    Random Passerby likes this.
  6. jynx


    Jan 14, 2006
    Actually back then when I read Bulbapedia's article, I was surprised that most Gen 2 baby Pokemon were already in it.
    Wouldn't surprise me that they removed them because they couldn't fit the breeding mechanics inside though.
  7. BlackButterfree


    Jan 12, 2014
    I just find it odd that it just happens to be the last 39 Pokemon of the Johto Pokedex in sequential order without a single one being skipped. You'd think that since a lot of these Pokemon were extended families (Umbreon, Espeon, Slowking, Scizor) that they'd all be the MissingNo. along with a few Johto Pokemon, but only three or four cross-generational relatives were included in the R/G index list. Has anybody ever double checked the veracity of Shigeki's statements? The OP does claim that Shigeki said the 39 "Kan-Jo" Pokemon were all to be used later, but has he ever said it anywhere else?
  8. Crazuu


    Nov 10, 2013
    3 months, enough to revive.
    Well, I think that Scizor wasn't meant to evolve from Scyther at first. Scizor and Heracross were Johto counterparts of Scyther and Pinsir, respectively. They all 4 are badass bugs and have base stats of 500, also, Scizor (A bipedal warrior red ant with crab-like pincers) has not so much to do with Scyther (A mantis with a dinosaur head and feet).
  9. Guy Incognito

    Guy Incognito

    Apr 16, 2014
    I keep hoping some kind of new info will come out and we'll finally see which ones were cut. Some of the old Gamefreak staff are on twitter, maybe someone with some Japanese knowledge could ask them? Shigeki Morimoto's twitter seems to be @shmorimo
  10. BlackButterfree


    Jan 12, 2014
    Considering just a few weeks ago with the announcement of ORAS, someone from GameFreak finally confirmed the timeline of the games, anything is possible. The OP seems to be a pretty good competitor if he/she's made it to where Shigeki goes two years in a row... Why not go up to Shigeki calmly and ask him if GameFreak could release a little statement saying which were the lost 39? Safe to assume Marill, Togepi, Ho-Oh, Donphan and Tyranitar were probably in there.

    We know that Latias and Blaziken were originally one Pokémon, that Shellos and Gastrodon were originally from Hoenn and that X and Y (and by extension, Kalos Pokémon) were in development as early as Black and White 2.0's development, I'd love to see which other Pokémon got moved forward to the next Generations.

    And in response to the whole "oh Gen 1 and Gen 2 all look better because Ken designed them all, but didn't design the later ones"... He didn't. He's always done the final, official artwork, from which everyone designs the Pokémon (manga, anime, games, cards, etc.) but he doesn't always design them. PIKACHU, who we all know is Gen. 1, was designed by the same woman who designed SYLVEON. So remind me again how the original 251 were better because Ken designed them? Also, he codesigned Xerneas and Yveltal. Obviously the explanation that said Pokémon were simpler back then because it's what the GameBoyColor could handle is correct. Do you really think that designs like this:


    could've been possible back when the best all the Pokémon on our screens could've looked like was this:


    People need to grow up. The designs have matured because so has the technology.
    Suspicious Derivative and jynx like this.
  11. Fraczewski


    Sep 15, 2014
    I registered here just to write this post.

    After months after finding this topic for the first time, I finally decided to search for clues and hints telling what Pokemon were left out of Gen One. I've always thought it must have something to do with existing new evolutions of old Kanto Pokemon and the new Pokemon appearing in Kanto. (Crystal excluded)
    So I counted them up. (how do you make spoiler tags here?)
    Note that I didn't take several factors into account, such as absence of Dark type in Gen 1, item holding, breeding and happiness mechanic, but I did exclude Headbutt pokemon and Victory Road Pokemon such as Ursaring or Donphan, as well as new Kanto areas: Route 26 through 28.

    A. Related Pokemon
    1. Crobat
    2. Pichu
    3. Cleffa
    4. Igglybuff
    5. Bellossom
    6. Politoed
    7. Espeon
    8. Umbreon
    9. Slowking
    10. Steelix
    11. Scizor
    12. Kingdra
    13. Porygon2
    14. Tyrogue
    15. Hitmontop
    16. Smoochum
    17. Elekid
    18. Magby
    19. Blissey

    B. Newcomers to Kanto
    20. Chinchou
    21. Lanturn
    22. Sentret
    23. Furrett
    24. Hoothoot
    25. Noctowl
    26. Ledyba
    27. Ledian
    28. Spinarak
    29. Ariados
    30. Corsola
    31. Sunkern
    32. Hoppip
    33. Skiploom
    34. Quagsire
    35. Qwilfish
    36. Murkrow (Kanto-exclusive)
    37. Houndour (Kanto-exclusive)
    38. Slugma (Kanto-exclusive)

    The results of this silly research are closer to the thesis than I expected. The number we get is pretty close to our missing 39 (40 excluding Mew) from the original 190, and we could assume that at least one of these Pokemon had a further evolution or a previous form (Sunflora, Jumpluff, Wooper, Houndoom, Magcargo). Among related Pokemon, Espeon and Umbreon I'm most doubtful about. First of all, time wasn't that much of a concept in Red and Green. Also, in Gen 1 the classic jRPG tri-elementalism of Bolt, Ice/Water and Fire is strongly featured through Legendary Birds, Eeveelutions (the concept would be broken with inclusion of two new Pokemon), and humanoid triumvirate of Jynx, Electabuzz, and Platypus. If were to go any further, Three Dogs of Ecruteak are a strong candidate for scrapped Gen 1 Pokemon, but I won't risk that claim.

    Furthermore, I highly doubt that such redundant Pokemon as Sentret, Ledyba and Spinarak could have been designed for a game alongside likes of Rattata, Caterpie, and Weedle. Therefore I'd feel safe to say that they were definitely not created for Red and Green. On the other hand we have really interesting and innovative Pokemon such as Electric/Water Lanturn, Fire/Rock Magcargo, Water/Ground Quagsire. After all exclusions (6) and inclusions (5) we're left with 37 Pokemon. Three still missing. The first thing that comes to mind is Larvitar line, strengthened further seeing how the original concept for games was about larva - coccoon - adult evolution. But that could have been anything, really. Pineco, Aipom, Togepi, Delibird, Swinub, Delibird. Whatever you think fits, because until Game Freak speaks, silly theories are all we're left with.

    I counted Dark-types for the sake of this list, but it could pretty much have been a scrapped concept from Gen 1 production. If not, Pokemon such us Murkrow, Houndour, and Umbreon could have been conceptualized as different type Pokemon.

    Ho-oh first appeared in 1997 anime, but that was already during the production of Gen 2. Same applies to Togepi, Snubbull, and Donphan - they debuted on-screen before Gold and Silver were released, but that doesn't mean they were designed before Game Freak started working on the sequels.

    But it's just something I decided to fart outta my head for fun. As I said, it was just made for fun and worthless speculation. I'm sorry!
  12. BlackButterfree


    Jan 12, 2014
    This is really well thought out. But then again, we just don't know and never will. For all we know, Flabébé was a Grass type meant for Kanto or something (highly unlikely, but possible!) or the missing 39 just won't ever show up at all. I doubt it if the designs were good enough to be put in the games, then removed.

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