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Bad Ass

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is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 2nd Grand Slam Winneris a Past SPL Championis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
thanks to whoever changed the title; i had forgotten all about it and put in a . to preview my post earlier

I'm going to keep this introduction fairly short and to the point. I didn't make this team in an inspiration of brilliance while on a spiritual journey. I didn't collaborate with Smogon's best to form the best team dppt has ever seen. No, I slapped it together at 1 am and had no expectations from it. However, this team has been great for me, and my most successful one in a long time. Most importantly, I actually have fun using it, and it isn't a team of the six most used Pokemon, but at the same time it's not using dumb crap like Ramparados; just stuff that's underrated! With that out of the way, I present my team!

~~~


Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- Explosion
---
Metagross starts off the match with a lot of things that are really helpful. The first thing being, obviously, Stealth Rock. We all know how important it is to any offensive team's success. While it isn't mandatory, and we've seen a lot of good players win without it, I really enjoy the luxury it gives me against the plethora of pokemon who are weak to rock. Meteor Mash is a reliable move for when I don't want to give myself up, but I don't want to just sit there and do nothing, or waste a turn switching. Trick is pretty fantastic, but on Metagross it really shines. Defensive Rotom, Swampert, Gyarados, Zapdos, pretty much everything that walls this in fact, hates taking a scarf. He can lure out so much stuff and explode on them or trick them-it's really great!

I picked Scarf Metagross as my lead because it does a lot of stuff other leads cant do for me. If I don't explode it early or Trick away the scarf, it can function as a great revenge killer or clean up pokemon in the late game. Not that that happens often, but I always have that option if I choose to do so. As I said before, Trick is probably the most useful move in the game. Completely cripple a counter, while getting their item, which is usually beneficial? Sure! Obviously he has trouble vs leads that carry Fire moves, Heatran in particular. Other than that little nitpick, he has been doing fantastically in every sense of the word.

~~~


Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 60 HP/196 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam
---

I love offensive Suicune. It's great to have a great check to so many huge threats, but at the same time have something that can be a good offensive force. The evs let him outspeed Lucario. At first, I had a really defensive one, but then I realized that I already had Latias as a defensive pokemon who can do a lot of the same things as Suicune, so it was rather redundant to have both of them defensive. Offensive Suicune helps me a lot more with luring than offensive Latias, and once I used it I never looked back. Now, why offensive Suicune? I looked at things that could do the same job as Suicune, but the list was short. Superachi was probably one of my main options, but the fact that it takes away a key water resist and I wanted to use Jirachi in other ways ruled him out.

So what does Suicune do for the team that makes me like him so much? It's the fact that he can do so many different things at the same time. He can wall a lot of threats, but not from just the physical side, nor just the special side, but he isn't a wall. He can grab a Calm Mind and use his Modest speed and Special Attack to sweep the opponent. But couldnt you say that about a lot of pokemon, like Celebi for example? Well yes, you could, but the thing about Suicune is that he does it all in one simple set. Simple, yet deadly. All in all, Suicune has been really great for me, and you're going to have to sell me on it to replace him. My only gripe about him is that he isn't able to heal, and that makes me want to send in Latias. The only problem there is that Latias is probably going to be killed by Tyranitar, Scizor, etc. That's where my next pokemon comes in.

~~~


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/180 Spd/76 Atk
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
- Wish
--

Defensive Jirachi fuck yes. This thing is really a beast in what he does for me. When I said Suicune can do a lot of things at once, I meant that he could do half as many things as Jirachi. The absolute best part about using Jirachi is that he is so unpredictable. He has so many viable sets that you have no idea what to send out. I have used this to bluff so many things into fleeing when they beat me. He does so many things that I rely on heavily. Spreading paralysis, flinching slower threats, passing wishes, checking stuff like Lucario, and providing a lot of key resistances. A lot of people don't like this Jirachi because passing wishes is usually very hard. Jirachi, however, has good typing for passing wishes. His Fire and Ground weaknesses are absolutely fantastic, because he lures them out as he wishes, then go to something like Suicune who would love to recieve the wish.

I picked Jirachi because he really meshes with my team. His two weaknesses are covered amazingly well by the rest of my team, and he returns the favor. He checks so many threats that would destroy me otherwise. Sometimes I want Thunder Wave, but I think paralyzing Flygon is more important than paralyzing Gengar and Rotom. A lot of people question the moveset. Wish without Protect? Surprisingly, Protect-less Wish works really well. Iron Head is a great way to get a free turn while still doing damage. If my opponent is paralyzed, I have almost a 3/4 chance of getting the Wish off. A problem pokemon that Jirachi outright beats is next on my team.

~~~


Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP/252 Spd/128 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Refresh
- Recover
- Calm Mind
---

Latias is important to my team for a lot of reasons. Is she the MVP? No. Is she important? Extremely. A pokemon to take Ground, Fire, Fighting, and Water attacks is so important, and she can actually make a lot of pokemon who use those moves fodder instead of threats. She is my main weapon against stall, and if I play correctly I will win against it. She gives me an extremely important second fire resist, and one with instant healing. Once steel types are eliminated, this thing has an excellent chance of sweeping. The focus of the team isn't to eliminate steels, however, which is why I don't carry Magnezone. She's here for the utility she brings. She, like almost every other pokemon on my team, is meant to wall threats that could give me trouble, while being able to hit really hard if given a chance. She gives me some speed to beat things like Infernape, Salamence, and a lot of things of that nature. Her weaknesses are taken easily by the rest of my team, and with help from Jirachi they wont be dying too soon.

Even though the stuff I talked about above was really important in picking Latias, the real reason I picked it doesn't seem to be stressed nearly enough. The main reason is that, in addition to that other stuff, she is really fast. Weavile is fast, yea, but Weavile can't switch in on anything, and it also can't revenge kill a ton of stuff, like Infernape. Weavile is so frail defensively, the only attack I would bring it directly in on would be something like un-STAB'd Grass Knot. That's why I need a fast wall, and Latias fit the bill perfectly.

~~~


Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 72 HP/184 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Storm
---

Why does no one use fast Tink? I keep saying it over and over (and over) but this is something that beats a lot of things that are really dangerous, and hits like a truck. I feel like a broken record saying it, but it's true. 281 speed gives me yet another check to Lucario. Unless you have some shit like Gliscor, you need a lot of checks for Lucario. Leech Seed looks a little odd on the set, but it works well! It makes all my pokemon invulnerable to Blissey, at the very least. If I bring her out early, and I don't want to Leaf Storm, fire off a Leech Seed! It can bluff a lot of Scizors into thinking i'm defensive if they don't pay attention to the log. Hp Fire is obviously for the steels that plague OU. Leaf Storm is where this thing really shines. It's about as powerful as LO Draco Meteor off of Salamence. STAB Grass is also really underrated as well, and even though a lot of stuff like Heatran, Salamence, and Latias resist it, it does get a fair amount of neutral coverage.

Why Celebi? Why Tinkerbell at that? Looking at the team, I had noticed some pretty big weaknesses, and some things I would definitely NOT want to bring anything in on. Celebi looked like it would really help. I knew that I had plenty of paralysis in Jirachi, and I didn't depend on it. My worst speed stat as of now was 280, and I didn't want to add a hardcore wall. Enter Celebi. Most people view Celebi as that thing that is annoying with Thunder Wave and Recover, and usually does some mono attack crap that's fodder. My team was offensive in nature, so I almost ruled out Celebi, when it hit me. Tinkerbell. No one expects it, it is really offensive, and it still handles what I need it to. Still my team was missing something....

~~~


Weavile (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Low Kick
---

WEAVILE LOL GET OUT OF DP NOOB! Wrong. Weavile follows the team's 'theme' of utilizing underrated pokemon. Weavile kicks the speed into high gear, and the only thing that beats it (viably) is Jolteon. But really, Bad Ass, what the hell. Weavile? Oh wow, it's fast. Stop the presses. No, Weavile is more than fast. Weavile is the all important revenge killer, which is all the rage right now. He can pick off just about anything once it's at a certain point. Pursuit is so helpful, it literally is the main thing stopping Gengar from tearing me apart limb by limb. And DDMence. Not only does this bad boy revenge kill the tier, but it cleans up amazingly. I don't reveal this unless a) I need it to revenge kill or b) It will finish off the opponent. Great coverage with dark/fight/ice doesn't hurt either. Low Kick is a great new toy that is got from HGSS that allows it to OHKO any Heatran but absurd shit like max Hp Heatran. The Stealth Rock weakness is only a minor nuisance when you realize that if it comes out midgame to revenge something, it still has 6 attacks left to clean up the opponent later.

I picked Weavile to finish off the team because it patched up my remaining weaknesses really well. It cleans up everything in the late game, picked off bad stuff in the mid game, maybe got in a stealth rock-less hit early game. I dare you to show me something that can pick off what Weavile can without using a Choice Scarf. His type coverage is fantastic as well. In fact, he hits everything for neutral damage. About the lack of Ice Punch, it isn't needed. Ice Shard hits everything I need the ice coverage for, and Night Slash does Ice Punch's job a little bit better.

I hope you like my team, adn thanks in advance for rating it! Thanks to Pokesho.com for the fantastic images as well!
 
Really cool team Bad Ass. Very unique and surprisingly solid. I won't change much, but I thought I would at least try to make you aware of some things.

First off, Suicune. I think a little more bulk could help it absorb more hits, while still posing a great offensive threat. The spread I always use for Offensive Leftovers Suicune is: 164 HP, 120 SpA, 224 Spe. The speed allows you to outrun everything up to and including max speed Jolly Gyarados. The health really helps tank some hits, and I've never really missed the SpA all that much. I generally find that, with the bulk, I can set up 2 or 3 and hit harder anyway. Definitely something to try at least.

Weavile is pretty awesome, and I admire your balls (no homo). Have you tested the SD set? I'm assuming you have, but in case you haven't I think that is also a good thing to try over Pursuit. I would normally recommend Mamoswine, but I think Starmie could be an issue then, so I guess you should just stay the course with Weavile.

The only problem I can see is that nothing on the team really takes a CBScizor U-turn very well, and he is likely to show up whenever you bring out Latias and Weavile. Suicune and Metagross are your only real options to take it. I would try to bring out Celebi as early as possible in your battles to surprise KO Scizor and Tyranitar and not have to worry.

Anyway, good luck! If you need any more help let me know.
 

symphonyx64

Private messages are the best way to reach me
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Hi there,

I'm not going to do a full on analysis of your team but, I am rather perplexed about the purpose of your Celebi. Looking at your EV spread, I notice you are quite offensive. But, looking at your moveset, I see Leech Seed along with Leaf Storm with the held item Life Orb. If you want to serve as a defensive wall, I recommend changing Leaf Storm to Grass Knot, and alter your EV spread to something more defensive such as: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe. This allows you to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar while maximizing defensives. Don't forget to replace Life Orb with Leftovers. You don't want to stay in, while sapping HP, but have a severely diminished Special Attack. Right?

On the other hand, you can simply run the "Life Orb Sweeper" set seeing as you are heading more in that direction anyways. Its a great set with the ability to outspeed and OHKO many top threats such as Lucario, Roserade, Porygon-Z, and Elective with its various moves. Barring they are Choice Scarfed, obviously. Plus, your hold item fits the job perfectly.
 
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 72 HP/184 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Storm

If I bring her out early, and I don't want to Leaf Storm, fire off a Leech Seed! It can bluff a lot of Scizors into thinking i'm defensive if they don't pay attention to the log.
You're leaving a lot up to chance. I always pay attention to the log. You can't rely on people not watching the log.

I'm still trying to understand if you're wanting to use this Celebi offensively or defensively. You have an offensive nature and EV's and a semi-offensive moveset. Leech seed is a little out of place imo. I suggest Earth Power in its place so Heatran can't have a safe switch-in. More confusing is Life Orb + Leech Seed. Have you tried leftovers on Celebi? Or a Timid Nature?

Weavile follows the team's 'theme' of utilizing underrated pokemon. Weavile kicks the speed into high gear, and the only thing that beats it (viably) is Jolteon. [...] No, Weavile is more than fast. Weavile is the all important revenge killer, which is all the rage right now.
Most revenge killers have scarf. How does Weavile take down Gyarados? Once Gyarados gets the DD up, a Jolly Gyarados will be faster than base 130 speed. Then if you use Ice Shard, it won't KO and Gyarados will KO Weavile. I can't see any way on your team to stop Gyarados, but perhaps a ScarfLatias might work.
Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Spd / 252SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Thunderbolt

The Stealth Rock weakness is only a minor nuisance when you realize that if it comes out midgame to revenge something, it still has 6 attacks left to clean up the opponent later.
You actually have 4 chances to switch it in. SR takes 25% each turn. If Spikes are up (3 layers) you will have only 2 chances to switch in.

Your rate sucked looool. Did you even read his desription or anything? Why would he want another cm poke? :naughty: He already has the speed suggested on that set and i don't think elective will be sweeping anytime soon. poooookemon
Oh wow. That is a horrible rate. Did you even look at ANYTHING? Electivire can sweep this team (mixvire anyway). It needs to predict a HP Electric, which can be lured by using Gyarados, then it can sweep the team. Bad Ass, don't read what DaPlayaFlow wrote. Its all irrelevant. However, what is relevant, is you can't always rely on Weavile to revenge kill stuff.
 
jirachi's evs/nature are inefficient because it ends up with a higher speed stat than attack stat which means using a jolly nature maximizes overall stat points
252 hp / 100 atk / 80 spe / 76 sdef jolly gives the same thing you have now (including 281 speed) except you get two extra attack points
woo hoo!

you might be mixvire weak but i'm not sure

also on paper it seems like you might have some trouble with jolly crunch lucario since your checks rely on lucario being adamant -- if this becomes a problem the obvious and easy fixes are changing celebi's nature to timid or jirachi's evs to 252 hp / 180 spe / 76 sdef jolly

this isn't a full rate but just a few things i noticed!
 

Bad Ass

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is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 2nd Grand Slam Winneris a Past SPL Championis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
To Shinoshi: I appreciate the rate but you are wrong on all points. You didn't read what I wrote. Weavile has 55% if he switches in a second time after using one attack; ergo 6 attacks. I also don't use Weavile to just revenge kill. I also use him to not let me be completely obliterated by ghosts and psychics. The reason for Leech Seed on Celebi is not to rely on them not paying attention to the log, it's to chip away at the opponent's health while not taking LO recoil and halving my special attack. Lastly, I don't see how you say I have no way to beat Gyarados.

To Dormin: Thanks, but the whole reason I'm NOT using Mamoswine is so I can Pursuit, so Swords Dance is out of the question. And with Scizor, all he can really get in on is Latias and Weavile without taking at least 50%. I like to try and lure him out early with Latias, but if I cant then I do have U Turn problems.

To Whistle: I'm upping the speed on Jirachi and Celebi. Thanks again, everyone!
 
You're leaving a lot up to chance. I always pay attention to the log. You can't rely on people not watching the log.
He isn't relying on anything, the opponent not catching on is just a potential bonus.

I'm still trying to understand if you're wanting to use this Celebi offensively or defensively. You have an offensive nature and EV's and a semi-offensive moveset. Leech seed is a little out of place imo. I suggest Earth Power in its place so Heatran can't have a safe switch-in. More confusing is Life Orb + Leech Seed. Have you tried leftovers on Celebi? Or a Timid Nature?

Most revenge killers have scarf. How does Weavile take down Gyarados? Once Gyarados gets the DD up, a Jolly Gyarados will be faster than base 130 speed. Then if you use Ice Shard, it won't KO and Gyarados will KO Weavile. I can't see any way on your team to stop Gyarados, but perhaps a ScarfLatias might work.
Why does a revenge killer need a Choice Scarf? A revenge killer is just a pokemon that switches in after a teammate's death to pick off the threat. Weavile does that just fine with high speed and priority to boot.

Anyway, Suicune is an excellent answer to Gyarados, it has Hidden Power Electric and resists Waterfall, and has high defenses. Celebi can beat some variants as well.

edit: fast ass
 
Suicune still takes quite a bit of damage from a +1 Bounce. The variant that is posted will definately take more damage and possibly is 2HKO'd. Since Suicune can't Rest and recover HP, it would go down quickly in my opinion. Bounce takes care of Suicune and Celebi. Also, what was the point of the second quote?

I appreciate the rate but you are wrong on all points. You didn't read what I wrote. Weavile has 55% if he switches in a second time after using one attack; ergo 6 attacks. I also don't use Weavile to just revenge kill. I also use him to not let me be completely obliterated by ghosts and psychics. The reason for Leech Seed on Celebi is not to rely on them not paying attention to the log, it's to chip away at the opponent's health while not taking LO recoil and halving my special attack. Lastly, I don't see how you say I have no way to beat Gyarados.
Switching in twice is 50% damage. With an attack, thats 60%, leaving 40%. You attack again to revenge KO. 30%. Switch in again, 5%. Then you get KO'd by the next attack. That doesn't sound like 6 attacks to me. And I explained the Gyarados point earlier.
 

Bad Ass

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is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 2nd Grand Slam Winneris a Past SPL Championis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
That's why I use Wish, to help stop assaults from things like Gyarados. Bounce is rare in itself, and Suicune can easily take one for around 55% and OHKO back. Celebi can take one without bounce and also OHKO back. With Weavile, I'm saying that if i switch in once and revenge kill (65% remaining), I still have more than plenty attacks once i come in again to sweep the opponent, as 5 should be more than enough.
 
But when you switch Weavile in again for another revenge kill/ attempt to sweep, you lose 25% more HP to SR, leaving you with 4 more attacks (40%) That may not be enough to finish a battle. Then there's the problem of Scizor. It will Bullet Punch Weavile.

If you use Wish then thats fine. But there is a 30% chance of paralysis, which means that one of your Pokemon could be crippled badly by paralysis. Also, does Celebi's Leaf Storm OHKO Gyarados? Or Bulky Gyarados?
 
seriously dude if the OP says something is not a problem or if his weavile usually has enough HP to sweep when played right, stop hassling him. holy shit gyarados has bounce 30% paralysis nothing can counter it even trace porygon2 because it might get fp four times in a row! -.-

it's also not rocket science to do damage calculations

299 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 247 - 292 (74.62% - 88.22%)
299 Atk vs 236 Def & 370 HP (140 Base Power): 247 - 292 (66.76% - 78.92%)
 
I'm seeing a fairly large Scizor weakness, only Celebi can OHKO, and Scizor is closer to countering Celebi than the other way around, you have nothing that resists U-Turn meaning chunks are going to be taken out of Metagross or Suicune (your main physical defenses), while things like Weavile and Latias can't do much in return (latias can use Reflect as Scizzy Pursuits, but if U-Turn is chosen, then Latias will be taking heavy damage.

I also see potential weaknesses to SDLucario (whom neither Jirachi, nor Celebi cannot OHKO iirc). And also Infernape, seeing as how Suicune is not packing Defenses, and the 120 Base Power from Grass Knot leaves a lot to be desired.

I like the non-standardness, it looks cool, but I think some memebers may need to be replaced, my 1st glance solution is perhaps Gyarados over Suicune, as he can cover the above threats, however too much switching will wear him down in no time due to SR, so watch out for that.
 

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