Tips for a standard team

[OmastarLover]

Ok, let me try again since I cannot edit the incomplete one :P

Well, I have large old experiences with g/s/c and Advance, but I'm away for a long time now, so I'm back and I need to adapt myself to the DPP environment. Here is how I started, made a base team that may have some big flaws I couldn't notice yet:

*EVs were all gotten at our amazing pokes database cause I'm definitely not good at this.

*Not sure about all of the pokes yet.

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Is it a realiable starter? I would use Zapdos instead, but I liked this one at a glance. When I thought about this starter I was first looking for a sweeper to cover some of the weaknesses of Scizor. Since Scizor is the main sweeper of the team, I tried to dedicate at least to more pokemons to backup for him. This starts with Stealth Rock, that gives a hard time to Salamence and Gyarados for example. It also helps against some of the Zapdos Weakness like Metagross (fire blast) and the very Gyarados. being a starter, it can set up stealth rock ASAP, what is the main purpose for it to be in the lead slot.
---

Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

The main sweeper, I liked how it can be paired with zapdos, Vappy and Heatran. Pursuit is able to hit Latias, Metagross, Jirachi, Gengar, Azelf and a lot more dangerous threats trying to switch to a tanker, and this give another oportunity for Zapdos and Heatran to be put to play. Superpower is a must there, its the move to counter the so-hated Blissey who can and will switch into Zapdos as many times as possible.

U-turn seems very usefull against most of the threats mentioned above, and gives the oportunity to switch safely to another pokemon in some cases.

When Blissey switches into Zapdos, whatever it takes, Scizor can switch in with relative safety, against anything not named Thunderwave. But even this isnt enough for blissey to stay on the field safely.

Also, bullet punch makes Quick Attack less necessary, and is a good stabbed move with almost 600 attack with choice band, to counter Aerodactyl, Tyranitar and other pokes that will already be taking the same advantage Tyranitar will for resisting Stealth rock damage.
---

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

Since I don't have one strong, all around physical tank, Vaporeon cover part of it along with Zapdos and Celebi, and absorbing hits is the first purpose for him on the team. Wish is mainly focused on Scizor and Heatran, who don't have any means of healing, and aren't easy to swtch into anything so safely. Toxic is very important there to work with Stealth Rock that is meant to be set since the beggining with Heatran, forcing switches and giving extra damage.

Surf is just the one-STABed-attack, that helps with one threat that can wreak havoc on Scizor and heatran: Gliscor. Being able to survive an earthquake (hopefully) is something to look for on this poke, reason for what the EVs are focused on physical def.
Although I have 2 pokes packing recovery, I sense the whole team relies too much on both Heatran and Scizor, both wich can really use Wish support.
---

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roar

I started the team by putting this guy. Its the poke I always used since G/S/C with much success and its a jack-of-all-trades. It's the one I had the most dificult time deciding what move build to use. I felt Roar would be necessary there for p-hazing, since I don't have another poke capabble of dealing with status building pokes, and Roar helps Stealth Rock to deal damage as well.

HP Ice was chosen over HP Grass because as long as I could think of, the main purpose of HP grass would be countering Swampert, but Celebi is there for it, and HP Ice helps take care of salamence and Gliscor on the switch, and these are more of a threat to this team.
---

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/216 Spd/40 SAtk
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave

This was the last poke I add to the team. looking at the other five I thought: What is lacking here is a reliable special tank, and I couldnt think of a better one, despite my hate for the egg. Scizor as a physical sweeper have no use when sleeping, burnt, and paralized, and aromaterapy is there for him, and even if Celebi doesnt need this help, the rest of the team will thank the egg for saving the day many times with this.

I started putting toxic here for the purpose of helping Stealth rock to deal damage forcing switches, but Vaporeon already packs it, and Thunderwave cover another important aspect forcing the enemy to set a Clreric to get rid of the paralize, giving oportunity to:

1) Set a wish from vaporeon to a dying poke.
2) Try another time a possibly failed Stealth rock with Heatran.
3) Switch in scizor to sweep, and if this Cleric is a Celebi, U-turn or pursuit it is very good.
---

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Leech seed is another aspect that helps dealing damege with Stealth rock and it annoys almost any pokes switching in. HP Ice again for Salamence, Gliscor while grass knot is the move to counter Swampert and the main attack for Celebi, and it can also damage Gliscor quite badly.
---

Something I thought of is: With so many strategies based on steath rock, should I try to use a spike/toxic spike somewhere? I saw that if I tried to put spikes somewhere, I would have to do many changes on the pokes, changes I couldnt afford to make. Need some advice on this.

I'm also afraid to have completely forgotten to use something to counter any dangerous threats. Hope I didn't overlook anything.

 

[tangramman]

Your team doesn't appear to have a clear, tangible strategy to execute; it looks more like a bunch of Pokes with good resistances between each other, in an attempt to wear down the opponent. If you want to go full stall, switch Heatran for a Taunt Skarmory with abnormally high Speed EVs or Hippowdon, switch in Scizor for Forretress for Spiking, and Rotom-A for Zapdos. Which'll make your team essentially like every other Stall team.

I would playtest what you have (you should have done this in the first place), see if it works (it probably won't; Offensive teams will be hitting too hard with you doing too little in return, while Stall teams can simply ... stall you to death), and continue to play with ideas. I would recommend completely restarting with a clear goal in mind however, but that's just me.

 

[OmastarLover]

Yes I started to make some tests. Really the team has many weaknesses, but it it works somewhat surprisingly. In case I put skarmory for scizor, it would hurt badly the sweeping cappabilities, how could I fix that?

Maybe after some tests, as you said I shall erase and restart the team, but then I'll have some experience and a path on where to go, and keep the few pokes I need for I'm used to battle with.

I'll think a little more about the lead as well, not too happy with the results with heatran :P

BTW, liked the Idea of Hippowdon, I'll keep it in mind and see how it fits o/

 

[mite b cool]

having first hand experience battling this team and winning (Nathan Drake) I know the weaknesses and how the team would happen to lose.

Now a lot of your pokemon can be used in offensive or defensive roles. You dont have anything to help you break stall and quite frankly a few of your pokemon slow you down completley.

For this reason i recommend Latias over Blissey. This gives you a bit more offense as well as a resonably good Zapdos counter (who cleaned your team up after Blissey was at 20%). You can run a simple Calm Mind set to utilise on Latias' special bulk as well as giving you good some offensive movement. Blisseys loss isn't a huge one.

Lucario can actually decimate your team, but it shouldn't, considering you carry Zapdos. Simply remove Roar as it is deadweight on your Zapdos, considering you aren't running any form of spikes/ Tspikes, for Heat Wave.

Replace Toxic on Vaporeon for HP Electric to handle DD Gyarados a bit better

try testing out some of your pokemon (Zapdos, Celebi) with more offensive movesets. Vaporeons wishes really only help out Scizor and heatran, as the rest of your team has access to instant recovery.

 

[Sheshi]

Heatran is used as an Anti-Lead generally. Also, your team has no way in dealing with Stall Breakers such as Salamence or Infernape.

I agree with Masterchef in saying your team should have a Latias. It brings some useful resistances to your team. It also can give you a great revenge killer.
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
252 SPE, 252 SPA, 6 HP
-Draco Meteor (Its Raison d'etre)
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Trick
Best Revenge killer I have seen out there. It stops Salamence and Infernape in their tracks and helps take down some of the most prominent threats (Salamence, Gyarados).

A nitpick on Vaporeon: I suggest using HP Electric over Toxic, so that way your Vaporeon isn't set-up Bait for Gyarados. Toxic may miss, but HP Electric won't. However, Vaporeon isn't as good as something like Suicune. Suicune has epic defences.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold Nature, 252 HP, 252 DEF, 6 SPA
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Surf
-Calm Mind
Good old Crocune. It actually is better at taking physical hits than Vaporeon is.

Celebi! Use HP Fire over HP Ice. Fire is for Scizor or Forretress who want to switch into Grass Knot, but get taken down by HP Fire. 40 SPA EV's are neccesary to OHKO Scizor though with HP Fire.

Zapdos benefits greatly from Heat Wave. So replace Roar with that. (Thanks for already saying that Chef). However, I find that HP Grass is better than Ice, in it being able to take Swampert down who would otherwise wall your Zapdos.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hello. This team is currently lacking a Rock type resist, which could be troublesome for your team in many ways. First off, Choice Band Tyranitar is a menace to this team, as he can easily switch in on many Pokemon on your team like Blissey and Zapdos without fear, and fire off ridiculously powerful Choice Band 100 base power STAB Stone Edges. With Stealth Rock down, these Stone Edges will OHKO-2HKO every member of your team easily. Even more problimatic, however, is Dragon Dance Babiri Berry Tyranitar. It can easily set up a Dragon Dance against Scizor locked into Pursuit and Heatran, not to mention Blissey should you chose to not use Thunder Wave and instead switch out. After a Dragon Dance Tyranitar outspeeds every member of the team and easily OHKOes-2HKOes. Scizor seems like a safe answer, but in fact many Dragon Dance Tyranitar these days carry Babiri Berry; this halves all damage done by Steel-type moves, and Scizor's Bullet Punch goes from being a OHKO to dealing 40%-50% damage. Tyranitar can then OHKO Scizor with a powerful Dragon Dance-boosted Fire Punch. I suggest that in order to fix this weakness, you replace your Blissey with a Swampert and then switch his position with Heatran (i.e. Heatran is still on your team, but is no longer the lead).

Swampert is not only a solid answer to all forms of Tyranitar, but a very capable user of Stealth Rock. What Swampert has over other leads is that it matches up very favorably with many of the OU metagame's most common leads. Jirachi, opposing Heatran, Metagross, and the rare Tyranitar lead all fare very poorly against Swampert. In fact, the only leads that can prevent Swampert from getting down Stealth Rock are faster Taunt leads Azelf and Aerodactyl, plus sleep-inducing leads like Smeargle and Roserade (but Swampert has no business staying in on Roserade anyway). The amount of leads Swampert beats, however, is much bigger than the amount of leads Swampert loses to. With Swampert on your team, your team now has two resistances / immunities to every type, barring Rock type moves. Anyway, use this set:

Swampert @ Leftovers | Torrent
Relaxed | 252 HP | 252 Defense | 4 Special Attack
Stealth Rock | Earthquake | Ice Beam | Roar

Stealth Rock is of course the most important move for a lead to carry as it turns many 3HKOes into 2HKOes and 2HKOes into OHKOes yadda yadda yadda... what sets Swampert apart from other users of Stealth Rock, however, is how easily it gets up Stealth Rock vs other common leads. Earthquake is Swampert's most important form of STAB, and is also the most powerful. Not only that, but Earthquake is a tremendous help against Tyranitar that simply ravage your team. Tyranitar can do little to harm Swampert, while Earthquake is a steady and sure 2HKO. Ice Beam is another important move on this set, and gives Swampert a great way to hit the common Dragon type Pokemon in the OU metagame. This is also nice as it gives this team a secondary check to the ever common and threatening Dragon Dance Salamence; while Scizor does handle Salamence well it doesn't have a chance against a Salamence high on health. Roar is a nice move on Swampert, as not only is it useful for scouting the opposing team, but it is great for phazing out set up sweepers like Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Gyarados, Calm Mind Jirachi, and many others. It is also very useful as if Swampert had previously laid down Stealth Rock, the opponent takes residual damage from that each time Roar forces in a fresh Pokemon to face Swampert.

Now that Swampert is your team's lead, Heatarn's set becomes freed up. I think, however, that a simple yet effective Life Orb attacker is best for this team. Life Orb Heatran is a fantastic Pokemon on a balance team such as this one, as it single-handedly defeats stall teams. This is nice as members of your team like Celebi and Vapreon tend to struggle with stall as they can do little to harm the impressive walls on stall teams. Heatran is also very powerful, as Life Orb boosted STAB Fire Blasts hurt even Pokemon that resist it on the switch in. Use this set:

Heatran @ Life Orb | Flash Fire
Naive | 4 Attack | 252 Special Attack | 252 Speed
Fire Blast | Earth Power | Explosion | Hidden Power Ice

Fire Blast is wonderful STAB that dents even Pokemon that resist it; for instance, even Salamence, the mighty dragon of OU, takes 51.7% to 60.7% damage from a Life Orb Fire Blast; factor this in with Salamence's Stealth Rock weakness, and at the very most, it will have 25% of its hit points left at the end of the turn. Fire Blast is also a great move for causing switches due to the large amount of Pokemon that are weak to it, such as Scizor and Skarmory. This is good news for your team, as more switches = more Stealth Rock damage. Earth Power is also important as it hits foes like Tyranitar, Jolteon, and enemy Heatran very hard. It is also an especially great way to catch Heatran switchins from your opponent off guard, as they will often be expecting a Fire Blast and a Flash Fire boost. Explosion is great as a last-ditch attack to take out a sweeper who has gained too many boosts, or a particularly annoying Blissey that keeps on switching back in to wall your team. Just be wary of accidentally Exploding on a Gengar or Rotom-A. Hidden Power Ice rounds out the set; there is no need for Hidden Power Grass as Celebi already beats Swampert, and Hidden Power Ice can hit Salamence, Flygon, and Gliscor even harder than Fire Blast can, scoring easy OHKOes on all three.

I would try out Thunder Wave on Celebi as your team no longer has Blissey to inflict paralysis. Thunder Wave is useful for hitting Pokemon that are very quick and may attempt to sweep your team, like Life Orb Starmie or Calm Mind Latias. Put Thunder Wave in Hidden Power Ice's spot, as Heatran already carries Hidden Power Ice and Swampert has Ice Beam; there is really no need for a third Ice type attack on Celebi. Also, you mentioned in the OP that you wanted to try and fit a Spiker or Toxic Spiker onto this team. I advise against this, as while it would be nice to have Spikes on a team that has two phazers with Roar (Zapdos and Swampert), should you decide to add Swampert your team synergy as far as type resistance will have gotten to a point where just changing one Pokemon could mess up the whole balance of your team. Also, a poster before me advised that you put Hidden power Electric on Vaporeon, I however think that you should keep Toxic. Toxic is useful for wearing down walls and fellow bulky waters, and while Hidden Power Electric does make Vaporeon a great counter to Gyarados, with Celebi and Swampert on this team, two of the best counters in the entire OU metagame to Dragon Dance Gyarados, Hidden Power Electric isn't really needed.

Hope the changes helped, good luck with your team! ;)