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Pokémon Tyranitar

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Pikachuu, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Pikachuu

    Pikachuu

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    [​IMG]
    Name: Tyranitar
    Type: Rock / Dark
    Ability: Sand Stream / Unnerve
    Base Stats: 100 / 134 / 110 / 95 / 100 / 61


    [​IMG]
    Mega Tyranitar
    Type: Rock / Dark
    Ability: Sand Stream
    Base Stats: 100 / 164 / 150 / 95 / 120 / 71


    Just as you thought Tyranitar couldn't get any better. This gen it has received quite a couple of new toys. Tyranitarite, Assault Vest and Policy Weakness now makes Tyranitar even more unpredictable and deadly than ever before. Weather did get a nerf this gen but it doesn't affect Tyranitar much if at all as he usually doesn't stay in for more than 5 turns and on DD set it doesn't need the SpD boost by the time 5 turns pass. Weather nerf also means Tyranitar's team mates aren't going to constantly lose HP as before. It is unfortunately weak to the new Fairy type but on the bright side it did also nerf Fighting types which Tyranitar despises.




    Complete Larvitar TMs/HMs (open)

    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM69 Rock Polish
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM98 Power-Up Punch
    TM100 Confide


    Complete Pupitar TMs/HMs (open)

    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM69 Rock Polish
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM98 Power-Up Punch
    TM100 Confide


    Complete Tyranitar TMs/HMs (open)

    TM01 Hone Claws
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Round
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM56 Fling
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM69 Rock Polish
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Dragon Tail
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM98 Power-Up Punch
    TM100 Confide
    HM01 Cut
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength

    Notable egg moves:
    Dragon Dance
    Stealth Rock
    Pursuit

    Movesets:

    Tank and Hit hard:

    Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk
    - Crunch / Payback
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge / Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    - Superpower / Low Kick


    Set makes Tyranitar extremely hard to take down and makes it a even better counter to threats like Latios, Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y, Gengar and Mega Gengar, Starmie etc. Here are some calcs:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 109-130 (25.24 - 29.95%) -- possible 4HKO
    Surf: 25.24 - 29.7%

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 288-342 (71.28 - 84.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 176-208 (43.56 - 51.48%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 172-203 (42.57 - 50.24%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO

    252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 158-188 (36.13 - 43.06%) -- 97.05% chance to 3HKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 224-265 (55.44 - 65.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Life Orb Celebi Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 164-195 (40.59 - 48.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252 SpA Arceus-Ghost Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 160-192 (39.6 - 47.52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 64-76 (15.84 - 18.81%) -- possible 8HKO

    252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 164-195 (40.59 - 48.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Dragon Dance:

    Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite/ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EV's 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Nature: Jolly
    - Dragon Dance / Rock Polish
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    - Earthquake / Superpower / Ice Punch


    Surprisingly easy to set up due to it's above average defense and insane special defense for a sweeper. After a DD it even outspeeds base 130's something regular Ttar couldn't do after a DD. After two DD (which again not that hard to pull off) it outspeeds Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Latios, Scarf Landorus-T, etc. Mega Tyranitar's defense lets it stomach a Banded Scizor Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet from banded Azumarill, Bullet Punch from unboosted Mega Lucario, not to mention it resists very common priority like Shadow Sneak, Extremespeed, and Sucker Punch. Weakness Policy can be used instead of Tyranitarite.

    Choice Band:

    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EV's 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP (flexible)
    Nature: Adamant
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Aqua Tail / Superpower

    The most feared Tyranitar set last gen returns. With Steel no longer resisting Dark, it can mindlessly spam Crunch and abuse Pursuit. Here are some calcs:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Genesect: 255-301 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Switching out)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 292-345 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (Switching out)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 274-324 (79.6 - 94.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 214-252 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 214-254 (60.4 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 362-426 (111.7 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Aqua Tail vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 202-238 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 159-187 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery​
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I am thinking that in this meta, possibly the best use of Gengar is to apply a Chopple Berry to trap and kill Gengar ASAP, so you can take a Focus Blast.
  3. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Honestly, Scarf Tyranitar is the best set right now. It revenge kills Ageislash, Starmie, Latios, and Celebi really nicely, and thanks to Steel types losing their resistance to Dark type attacks, it can generally just spam Crunch. I could see maybe a Rock Polish set working for Mega Tyranitar, but it's still very weak to priorty. Azumarill, Scizor, Breloom, and even Lucario can revenge kill it pretty nicely. I think normal Tyranitar is generally going to be much better than MegaTyranitar, mainly because it's much more bulkier on the special side, and is much more versatile.
    The-Me likes this.
  4. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    What? It goes from 100/110/100 defenses to 100/150/120, making it considerably bulkier on both sides. It doesn't lose the Sand Stream bonus or anything, although it does after five turns anyway.

    Regular Tyranitar could hold a Smooth Rock, though, which might also benefit Excadrill, Landorus, or others once they show up.
  5. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Well, Tyranitar is generally used as either an offensive Pokemon or as a Special tank. The extra physical bulk is great, but normal Tyranitar is still much bulkier than Mega Tyranitar because of the new item Assualt Vest. 100 / 150 Physical defense does sound great on paper, but it still can't take the most common physical hits like Close Combat, Earthquake, and U-turn. Also, Mega Tyranitar faces competition from other Mega Evo Pokemon, meaning it's going to see little to no usage.
    Halcyon. likes this.
  6. Millky95

    Millky95

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    Just for reference, Normal Ttar:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 156-184 (44.06 - 51.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 136-161 (38.41 - 45.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    VS Mega Ttar:
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 121-144 (34.18 - 40.67%) -- 52.25% chance to 3HKO

    And defencivly
    Normal Ttar with Assault Vest
    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. +1 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 234-276 (60.62 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Normal Ttar without Assult Vest
    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 348-411 (90.15 - 106.47%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Vs Mega Ttar
    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 296-354 (76.68 - 91.7%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    On the physical side: Normal
    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 452-534 (117.09 - 138.34%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    VS Mega
    252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 344-408 (89.11 - 105.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Note all EVs are 252 Attack, 180 HP for all Ttars. Normal is just as good, if not better than the Mega. Only a pure physical or special wall with Wish support Mega Ttar would be better at But even then it's not worth it.
    Jec likes this.
  7. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    That's fair, but with Assault Vest equipped, Tyranitar is forced to give up any support moves while simultaneously not having any power boosts. Meanwhile, if regular Tyranitar is using Assault vest instead of a boosting item, it also loses out in both power and Speed compared to Mega Tyranitar.

    The Mega competition argument, however, is not fair at all. Not every team will run a Blaziken, Lucario, or Gengar, and the ones that aren't would only be forced out of using Mega Tyranitar if they'd get more out of some other Mega outside of the big three. And there's no reason to expect that to be the case.
    Kooltrex, jalalabad, Karxrida and 2 others like this.
  8. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Eh, please consider this is all theorymon. No one knows what the metagame is going to be like obviously, but Mega Tyranitar just isn't that big of a deal. It's counters are basically the same as before, it's weaker than the banded set, slower than the scarf set, and less bulkier. It just seems like a waste of a lot of potential (using your Mega Evo slot on something that doesn't need it). Again, none of this is fact, it's just my opinion on how I see the metagame at the moment.
  9. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Your defensive calculation uses MEWTWO. Considering he's pretty much uber for sure, I wouldn't worry about that calculation.

    T-Tar's Mega Form is probably best in a defensive standpoint, but I like it more for what it does. Your Tyranitar calcs show three different items individually beating one aspect of Mega Tyranitar, wheras the Mega holds reasonably well against most of those things. Forretress not a guaranteed 3HKO? Whatever, you have Fire Blast for that. Mewtwo beats you without the Assault Vest? Yeah, but what's a permaTaunted T-Tar DOING in Ubers?
    Kooltrex likes this.
  10. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Compared to Band, MegaTar is faster, bulkier, and can switch moves. Compared to Scarf, it's stronger, bulkier, and can switch moves. Compared to Vest, it's faster, stronger, and can use utility moves.

    Regular Tyranitar has plenty of specialized ways it can play, but MegaTar is well-rounded, having several notable advantages for every gain the other sets have. It may not become standard, but it's got plenty of uses to justify its place on a team.
  11. Millky95

    Millky95

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    Is it confirmed you can't use moves like Stealth Rock when using Assault Vest?

    But if normal Ttar can do what Mega Ttar could, maybe even better, why waste your mega sport on it when you then can use one of the big 3?

    I was just going for a general damage comparison. The main part I'd look at is the range of damage a move does. I could've used any special Pokemon to make my point. I wasn't saying "Mega Ttar can't wall Mewtwo". I was saying "Mega Ttar takes X damage from a certain attack whilst Normal Ttar takes Y". if you'd like I'll use a different comparison?
    Normal Ttar:
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 258-306 (63.86 - 75.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Assault Vest:
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 170-204 (42.07 - 50.49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Mega:
    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 228-270 (56.43 - 66.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Assault vest is better when it comes to taking Special moves. That's the point being made.

    Perhaps Mega Ttar and Hippo could make a decent SandStall core? You'll have 2 weather inducers and MegaTtar can be more well rounded. Maybe a Stone Edge/Stealth Rock/T-Wave/Something else set could work. Or a late game sweeper with Rock Polish? +2 Jolly with 252 Speed EVs outspeeds most of the metagame.
  12. asterat

    asterat

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    Just so you guys are aware smooth rock (sand equivalent of damp rock) increases sandstorm's turns to instead of 5.
  13. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Knock Off now has 65 Base Power and it increases if the opponent has an item (presumably doubling). A potential 130 BP STAB move off of Tyranitar's Atk as well as removing the opponent's item would be amazing for it and I think it would be a better option than Crunch for a Dark move.

    Edit: Nevermind. It's been confirmed that Knock Off's power doesn't increase.
  14. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Apparently not.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-battle-mechanics-research.3489239/page-12#post-4888416

    The BP buff seems to be real, but not the doubling. Still, compared to Crunch, giving up 15 BP for taking away non-Mega items could be worthwhile. On the other hand, checking Serebii, it says the BP is only 55. I've heard conflicting reports, and it could make a difference, especially if being used as STAB. Serebii can be wrong; does anyone know for sure?
  15. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    I don't, but can Absol learn it? I'm training one right now, and if she gets it, I'll post it here.
    unfixable likes this.
  16. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Who cares about the Mevo, Assault Jacket is where it is at. Your Mega Evolution stone can go to better and more powerful things, nevermind the fact that the Mega stone increases tyranitar's most useless stat, its defense, the most. Assault Jacket gives you another 1.5x multiplier on your special defense on top of your sandstorm special defense boost. To put into perspective how bulky that is, Specs Latios can only 4HKO with its most powerful move in its arsenal against TTar: Grass Knot, which is a 120 base power super effective move!

    From:
    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 190-224 (47.02 - 55.44%) -- 73.44% chance to 2HKO

    To:
    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 126-150 (31.18 - 37.12%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    That is an insane amount of bulk added on. With high attacking stats, good coverage, and an already high special defense Tyranitar is going to be a prime Assault Jacket user.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
    subfer1, Ruffian, Psylink and 2 others like this.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    TPDB knows his shit, Assault Jacket Tyranitar will be crazy this gen. To put things into perspective, with max HP / max SpD+ it has 404 HP / 738 SpD. Super effective hits from the special side are basically hitting for neutral damage a Pokemon with 404 HP and 369 SpD. Who cares about Blissey, this thing will be the real bane of most special attackers.

    Put me in the group that doesn't see any real use for Mega Tyranitar. Choiced betters and Assault Vest sets do most of the things that you would want Tyranitar for, and even mixed lead sets with SR prefer the ability to use Focus Sash. And of course big competition with other MEvos.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013
  18. SkaterTrainer

    SkaterTrainer

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    I think assault jacket Tyranitar will probably be amazing especially since he can help cover aegislash on revenge or a prediction. Assault Jacket sets are going to NEED wish support. Wish-Jirachi seems like the go to partner for bulky wish passing. But don't count his mega out. It's super bulky and is going to hit pretty hard.
  19. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Quick problem: you forgot to remove Leftovers from Tyranitar.

    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 126-150 (31.18 - 37.12%) -- 82.42% chance to 3HKO

    Of course, that's still really good. To put this kind of bulk into perspective, Specs Latios's Surf can't 3HKO at all.

    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 102-120 (25.24 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    Kooltrex, Unknown001 and Doughboy like this.
  20. BigT232

    BigT232

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    What nature would be best for a Tyranitar with Assault Vest?
  21. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Eh, it generally depends on what you want Tyranitar to do for your team. Although there generally isn't a metagame at the moment to determine the "best" set, I'd generally say Adamant or Careful nature.
  22. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Yeah I am really liking Assault vest Tyranitar in this metagame as it really nicely traps the new Gengar

    252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 288-340 (71.28 - 84.15%)
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 180-212 (68.7 - 80.91%)

    Now that might not look very impressive, but remember, Gengar has no item and sand is up, with Rocks on the field and 2 turns of sand, Gengar will be at best at 18 HP and will kill it off 7/16ths of the time anyway. Keep in mind Gengar will have to 2HKO with Focus blast, and its odds of breaking through are really minimized.
  23. SmashBrosBrawl

    SmashBrosBrawl

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    The problem with assault vest is the lack of recovery. Like, yeah sure you have the special bulk of the gods, but how do you expect to keep coming in on those powerful special attackers through the match when you get worn down quickly (keep in mind that ttar is vulnerable to every entry hazard) and cant recover with leftovers/rest talk. I think that wish support is going to be a must to make the most out of this. Unfornately most wish users have poor synergy with ttar (they either share weakness or are also special tanks). Not really sure if this is going to be ttar's flagship set this gen, but definitely something to watch out for.
    CarnivorouSwarm likes this.
  24. Haruno

    Haruno jiggle jiggle
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    I don't recall ever hearing tytar repeatedly coming in and taking hits. It's mainly used to pursuit trap and occasionally talking hits but it's no ferro in the sense that it can constantly switch in to tank hits.
  25. Millky95

    Millky95

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    Is that on normal Gengar or on MegaGengar?

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