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Tyranitar

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Colonel M, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    [​IMG]
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    Tyranitar

    The Tyrant writes his own analysis. Exciting!

    ----------------------------------------------

    [Overview]
    • Great offensive stats (134 Attack and passable 95 Special Attack) coupled with a wide movepool.
    • Awesome defensive stats. 100 HP, 110 Def, and 100 Special Defense, the latter being boosted further thanks to sandstorm.
    • Strongest Pursuit in the game.
    • Great offensive typing; has no immunities (though Justice Heart now gives the Pokemon an Attack boost if hit by Tyranitar's Dark-type attacks).
    • Access to Dragon Dance and Rock Polish to boost its Speed.
    • Hindered by its base 61 Speed. Despite it being low, a +Spe nature allows it to outspeed base 115s.
    • It has a lot of cringe-worthy weaknesses; especially its quadruple weakness to Fighting-type attacks.
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Pursuit
    move 4: Aqua Tail / Superpower / Earthquake
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Set Comments:
    • Outspeeds base 115s, which is plenty for Tyranitar. It also ties with base 116s, which is sufficient enough for it.
    • Stone Edge and Crunch are the primary moves to use. Crunch's reliable accuracy is a good lock for Tyranitar, while Stone Edge offers a boost of power.
    • Pursuit is very effective against the Ghost- and Psychic-types that are usually faster than Tyranitar. Think Gengar and Azelf for example.
    • Aqua Tail nails Randorosu, Superpower hits Terakion and Kobaruon, while Earthquake hits Jirachi and Kobaruon. Earthquake runs the problem with Balloon Pokemon.
    Additional Comments:
    • Superpower is an option as it hits Bijirion for neutral as well as hitting Terakion and Kobaruon for super effective damage.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • Stealth Rock is a good idea to pack with this Tyranitar. Anything to help make its job easier with revenge killing is recommended.
    • Anything past 115 Speed bracket is open game against Tyranitar. Alakazam is faster than Tyranitar and can KO it with Focus Blast. Wouldn't be a bad idea to pack Scizor to keep Alakazam from ruining Tyranitar's day.
    • Watch out for Dugtrio and Wobbuffet. If you're locked onto the wrong move, it could spell doom for your Tyranitar.
    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Flamethrower
    move 3: Crunch
    move 4: Superpower / Pursuit
    item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 SpA

    Set Comments:
    • Mixed Tyranitar is still a dangerous foe to face against. With the right prediction, many Pokemon go down.
    • Hippowdon has to be designed to take on Doryuuzu, which requires max HP / Def with an Impish nature. With that in mind, Tyranitar has an easier time 2HKOing Hippowdon.
    • Flamethrower olbiterates Skarmory and Nattorei; two common switch-ins for the Choice sets.
    • Crunch is your strongest STAB to use.
    • Superpower is primarily for Blissey. Pursuit isn't a bad choice to use this as a Trapper.
    • The SpA EVs allow Tyranitar to 2HKO Celebi and Birijion with Flamethrower.
    • The HP EVs are to keep Tyranitar bulky. While you can invest Speed onto Tyranitar, the HP EVs help keep Tyranitar alive and pose a greater threat. Brave Nature is great to weaken Nattorei's Gyro Ball as well.
    Additional Comments:
    • Expert Belt is more suitable for Bulky Tyranitars, while Life Orb is for the more suicidal approach.
    • You can use Life Orb and a lot more Speed on Tyranitar.
    • Fire Blast is an option if you don't want to use a lot of SpA EVs. It will always 2HKO 252 HP / 0 SpD Celebi.
    Teammates & Counters:

    • Paralysis spreading is a huge boon for this set. It allows Tyranitar to function outside of wall-breaking.
    • Bulky sets are a bit more difficult to take down, but hits weaker than the Life Orb set. The best you can do is try to switch in a Pokemon that reists the incoming attack and hit hard. Without any Speed, Machamp is a pretty good way to check Tyranitar. Roobushin with Mach Punch can peg Tyranitar, but it only switches in well with Superpower and Crunch; Crunch being preferered.
    • The lack of Speed is an issue, and even the faster Tyranitars are vulnerable to agile Pokemon such as Infernape. While it cannot switch into an attack, there is no way Tyranitar will stay in on Infernape unless it predicts a Nasty Plot. Groudon is an even better check; while it can't switch into Fire Blast easily due to the sun, it can survive a hit from Tyranitar and quickly KO it with STAB Earthquake.
    • In general, finding Pokemon that "safely" switch into this set is difficult. The best thing to do is to attempt to predict the move with your counter.
    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Crunch / Payback
    move 4: Superpower / Aqua Tail / Earthquake
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant / Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    Set Comments:
    • 604 Attack after a Choice Band with deadly STABs.
    • Payback is an option for a boost in power (150 vs. 120 after STAB). Sadly, Payback doesn't work so well against slower Pokemon, so a Brave nature fixes this.
    • Earthquake is primarily for Steel-types, while Aqua Tail will go for the 2HKO on Hippowdon and makes Gliscor think twice about switching into Tyranitar. Superpower hits most Steel-types while knocking Nattorei down a peg.
    • Brave nets Tyranitar 142 Speed. While it makes you more susceptible to Machamp, Swampert, and Zuruzukin you still outspeed minimum Speed Hippowdon and Wobbuffet.
    Additional Comments:
    • Nothing else really. You can go for max Speed, but the loss of bulk is noticeable. It's not a great idea to try to Speed creep Skarmory as it's in a better position to go faster than you regardless and the more EVs given up, the more inferior your spread becomes. Either use max HP or go for max Speed.
    • Fire Punch is an option if you're deathly afraid of being Roost-stalled by Skarmory. It still 2HKOes Skarmory while having a chance to burn it.
    • Careful with 252 HP/ 40 Atk/ 216 SDef can be used to give Tyranitar more bulk with Choice Band supplying ample power.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • This variant is very slow, so watch out for Pokemon like Skarmory attempting to wall Tyranitar. Paralysis can help a lot with this, or try to be crafty with Magnezone. Wobbuffet also does well against Skarmory since it can switch into any attack (though granted; Brave Bird sucks to switch into) and simply Encore onto an attack.
    • Pack faster Pokemon behind this guy; especially those that can outspeed Terakion and company. Justice Heart means that Terakion can switch into Crunch and receive an Attack boost or obtain a free Swords Dance / Rock Polish on a Pursuit-lock (because who's stupid enough to keep Tyranitar in that situation?). Starmie isn't a bad idea.
    • Fighting-type Pokemon aren't bad switch-ins for this set; especially those that have either the bulk to withstand a hit or the speed to outspeed Tyranitar.
    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Payback / Crunch
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Superpower
    item: Lum Berry / Focus Sash
    nature: Brave
    evs: 252 HP / 88 SpA / 168 SpD

    Set Comments
    • Tyranitar's combination of Stealth Rock and Sandstream make it an excellent lead as Sandstream nullifies Focus Sash's usefulness.
    • STAB Payback does fail if the opponent switches out, but it does well if the Pokemon stays in. If you want to hit switch-ins harder, Crunch is never a bad option.
    • Fire Blast prevents Nattorei from switching into Nattorei as well as Forretress; the latter which can threaten to remove Tyranitar's entry hazards with Rapid Spin.
    • Fire Blast is superior to Fire Punch. Since most Steel-types are physically defensive, Fire Blast hits on their weaker defense.
    • Superpower neutralizes other Tyranitar leads while making sure Doryuuzu stays off the field. This is helpful versus Darkrai in particular, which is why Lum Berry is intact.
    • Lum Berry prevents Dark Void from putting Tyranitar to sleep and allows Tyranitar to destroy Darkrai with Superpower.
    • The EVs allow Tyranitar to survive a Focus Blast from Darkrai. Fire Blast will OHKO Forretress after stepping into Stealth Rock, though Sturdy variants will survive with 1 HP and likely get Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes up.

    Additional Comments
    • If you think Tyranitar will survive past the lead position, Thunder Wave isn't a bad option. Outside of Ground-type switch-ins, which are common answers to Tyranitar, it can cripple any other Pokemon foolish enough to try to switch into Tyranitar.

    Teammates and Counters
    • Tyranitar is pretty much in the lead position for a reason. It doesn't fail often against most leads, so any team can be designed around it.
    • Groudon or Kyogre might not be a bad idea to use if you're worried about sandstorm damage kicking in.
    • Groudon counters this set well. Fire Blast is the only bad move that Groudon can switch into. STAB Earthquake does well in forcing Tyranitar out.
    • Fighting-types do well against Tyranitar. Lucario doesn't get a free switch-in, but it easily forces Tyranitar out with STAB Close Combat.
    • Scizor has to beware of Fire Blast, but it can dent Tyranitar with Bullet Punch or U-turn for a recipient for Fire Blast.

    [Team Options]
    • Tyranitar provides a free sandstorm, so Pokemon such as Doryuuzu and Randorosu enjoy a boost with their offenses. Doryuuzu becomes an effective revenge killer, while Randorosu gains more power behind his attacks.
    • Scarf Tyranitar lacks some manpower, so it becomes more susceptible to being walled by Skarmory. Even Blissey can shrug off Stone Edges while Superpower does 68.1% - 80.1%, which isn't quite a OHKO. Mixed attackers, or all around good physical attackers, are good Pokemon to pair with it. Infernape is an excellent example since it is an effective mixed sweeper.
    • Choice Band and Mixed Tyranitar lack speed, so agile Pokemon are a great addition for them. A Pokemon with Thunder Wave can also be considered, but make sure the user doesn't draw in Ground-types often.
    • There will be Pokemon that will try to take advantage of Tyranitar's STABs. Think Lucario, Birijion, Terakion, and Kobaruon. It's best to have Pokemon faster than these 4 Pokemon and be able to KO them in the process.
    • Fighting-types love Tyranitar for one reason: Pursuit helps clear Psychic- and Ghost-types that otherwise trouble Fighting-types. Stone Edge is a great aid to crippling Flying-types.
    [Other Options]
    • Substitute is not a bad set to build around. Tyranitar forces a lot of switches, so setting up a Substitute is not difficult. It can set up 101 HP Substitutes to prevent its Substitutes being broken by Seismic Toss and Night Shade. Focus Punch can be used alongside it.
    • Tyranitar has a more special attacks. It has STAB Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt, and Focus Blast. A Choice Specs set could be used, but it is inferior to all of Tyranitar's usual movesets.
    • Rock Polish and Dragon Dance aren't good ideas this generation. With Doryuuzu running rampant in the tier and Rock Polish missing Scarf Garchomp, they're not great options to look at. It's best to use Tyranitar for its immediate man power with Choice Band even if the Speed boost is tempting. There's also a lot of priority attacks; specifically Fighting-type moves, that are commonly going to be used thanks to Doryuuzu. This hampers Dragon Dance Tyranitar's potential overall.
    • It learns both Dragon Tail and Roar for phazing options. Dragon Tail can work on the Choice Band slot in the fourth option.
    • Thunder Wave can slow down many Pokemon for Tyranitar, but Tyranitar likes to draw in Ground-types, which are immune to Thunder Wave. It does help a lot against Terakion and Lucario though.
    [Counters]
    • Lucario, Terakion, Birijion, and Kobaruon can switch into any of Tyranitar's STABs. The legendary trio can take advantage of Crunch and obtain an Attack boost.
    • Mach Punch users are commonly being used no thanks to Doryuuzu, so they pop up more often to be a thorn on Tyranitar's side. Roobushin doesn't like taking too many special attacks, but it handles most, if not all, of the physical sets well. It can set up a free Bulk Up against Tyranitar. Hitmontop has Technician Mach Punch while Breloom has Spore to incapacitate the next switch-in.
    • Hippowdon and Gliscor can switch into Choice Band sets, barring a boosted Aqua Tail. Gliscor has to be wary of an Ice Beam from Mixed sets as it will OHKO. Hippowdon gets a little more breathing space with a 2HKO.
    • Skarmory can Roost-stall Stone Edge's PP if Skarmory is faster than Tyranitar. Once again, be aware of Mixed Tyranitar as Flamethrower will severely shut it down.
    • Scizor can be an annoyance to the Choice sets. Scizor has Bullet Punch, Superpower, or U-turn to exterminate Tyranitar.
    • Aside from Superpower and Flamethrower, Nattorei is actually a good switch-in to Tyranitar. Iron Thorns damages Tyranitar each time it uses a contact attack. It has STAB Gyro Ball or Power Whip to exterminate Tyranitar.
    [Dream World]
    • Tyranitar gets Tension as a Dream World ability. Not very good unless you absolutely hate having sandstorm.
    • It is illegal with Superpower and Aqua Tail.
  2. zapper22001

    zapper22001

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    I used to just run Careful| 252 HP/ 40 Atk/ 216 SDef, but I believe there was a better spread that was stronger and more efficient.
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Any opinions on Substitute Tyranitar? I think it's the last set I might add altogether. Dragon Dance seems pretty ineffective this generation.
  4. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Sorry this took so long, but it is finished now.

    I won't add Substitute yet because I don't know what to specifically use with it. I'm guessing Substitute / Focus Punch / Dark Pulse / Flamethrower, which I guess isn't bad to use, but I don't really want to add it until there has been people that can speak of its usefulness. Same with Lead Tyranitar, which I've only seen once or twice with Stealth Rock, but I am most willing to add that set in.
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Fixed some formatting, marked as done.
  6. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I don't see any particular reason why Dragon Dance Tyranitar wouldn't still be effective. Doryuzzu exists but if you must you can bait and remove Doryuzzu if need be, like any other pure counter.
  7. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    This, or just slap a Balloon on Tyranitar.
  8. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    You obviously didn't read the rest of my passage.

    At the current time, priority Fighting-type attacks are common. Whether its the WiFi Ladder or the Dream World Ladder, its presence is significant. The big proof falls in that Roobushin is #5 on both ladders, making it difficult to use. Add on Scizor's presence still existing, and you realize its a tragedy waiting to happen. Add on every Scarf Pokemon being able to outspeed Dragon Dance Tyranitar and... Yeah...

    I just really am not seeing it this generation. In Gen IV, it was on the verge of being mediocre enough. Bullet Punch Scizor forced Tyranitar to use Babari Berry and Fire Punch as is. Dragon Dance is also pretty weak on Skarmory. Fire Punch without the Life Orb doesn't 2HKO IIRC. Hippowdon's existance to check Doryuuzu doesn't help either.

    It doesn't really matter if you attatch Balloon. It just stops you from being revenge killed by X-Scissor-less Doryuuzu. Let's also not forget that 3 Deoxys formes AND Shaymin-S AND possibly Darkrai exist, and all of those can hamper Dragon Dance Tyranitar.

    I dunno how much more I can really explain it. It just seems very ineffective this generation, and it was already a borderline strategy last generation IMO.
  9. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Perhaps if someone could compile logs of DDTar's effectiveness in Gen V?

    (I personally don't see why DDTar shouldn't be included either. Tyranitar managed fine last generation with Scizor on over 1/4 of teams, so eliminating Roobushin (the only common user of Mach Punch, pre-Dream World) shouldn't be too hard).
  10. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I thought the whole point of the forum was that these analyses were theorymon... why would we get logs? :P

    I guess I see a niche for a general attacking Tyranitar that can switch in on resisted hits in the early game and fire off a few moves, then come in late after a team is worn down and try for a sweep (like the way people played Dragon Dancers in ADV). Though Substitute Tyranitar may have the same basic effect...
  11. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Mixed Attacker and Lead Tyranitar need to have mention as to why the EVS are how they are? The only mention of EVs for these sets is the Mixed Attacker's SpA EVs to 2HKO Celebi and Birijion. But I have no idea why the defensive EVs are in place, as naturally, many people would normally just slap Atk and SpA EVs on these two sets that are generally offensive in nature.

    On that topic, you should say why the Lead Tyranitar has Fire Blast in place of Fire Punch when the latter comes off its greater Atk stat and stops focus on EVing SpA.

    Also, in the Mixed attacker set:
    This should be Flamethrower.
  12. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    I'll have to ask firecape what the EVs do, since I got them from him. I know they're Uber-based though.
  13. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Locopoke uses those Special Attack EVs, and they ensure an "OHKO" on Forretress, of course it will usually have Sturdy. The defensive EVs ensure TTar will always survive a Timid Darkrai's Focus Blast, but there are like 80 extra SpD EVs so if that is all you are concerned about you can move the EVs around. The whole point of Fire Blast is to prey on Forretress much weaker Special Defense, so that's why Fire Punch isn't used. (A Fire Punch with 252 Atk EVs into TTar and an Adamant nature will still do less than a 0 SpA Fire Blast against a specially defensive Forretress). So yeah, I guess no SpA EVs are necessary since "Sturdy."

    <%locopoke> you would probably want to crunch it first
    <%locopoke> if it has custap, then fire blasting first means it gets 2 layers as opposed to 1

    yeah that too
  14. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    I've been running Scarftar a lot, and from my experience Earthquake has lost a lot of value since last generation. One of ttar's best uses was/is checking Heatran, and with all the balloons around, its hard to do this effectively at times without Aqua Tail / Superpower.
  15. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    I think a Focus Sash would be a better main option on the lead set, as the only common Sleep lead is Politoed at the moment (at least on DW ladder). Chople Berry could also work to possibly prevent random Fighting-moves from preventing your SR from getting up. I'm not really sure what else to add, this looks solid.
  16. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    I'll add Focus Sash, but with Banlist #2 having Darkrai unbanned it could commonly spring up as a lead. This makes Lum Berry very appealing; probably enough to warrant it as the main option. With regards to Focus Sash, it still fails on Pokemon like Kojondo and sure as hell doesn't help Focus Sash either. Anything with Fake Out + Fighting move likely KOes Tyranitar unless it's something Impish perhaps or there isn't STAB behind the attack. I'm not sure of it being the main option.
  17. haydenboyter

    haydenboyter

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    What about a sub polish ttar

    Rock polish
    Substitute
    Crunch
    Stone edge/superpower

    Stone edge gets STAB but Superpower allows for nearly perfect coverage

    Mach punch and scarfed pokemon are a pain. Have a levitate/ flying pokemon for scarfed EQ

    Not sure if this would work really well, but I use it a lot.
  18. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    The set's "okay" with a bit of "meh" in the mix.

    While Rock Polish allows Tyrnaitar to be speedy and more threatening then it was unboosted, why use this over Rock Polish Terakion or Rhypherior or Shell Break Pokemon? Rhypherior's not nearly as screwed by Mach Punch or Earthquake or Bullet Punch as Tyranitar really is. It even has Solid Rock, Edgequake STAB, and 140 Attack to compensate for its rather lacking defensive typing.

    Terakion outspeeds Doryuzuu and is just hard-hitting in general. I don't think I need to go into much detail here except that Tyranitar lacks the immediate power and Speed this generation to use Dragon Dance or Rock Polish this generation. With the influx of Doryuuzu and Nattorei, it'll be hard.
  19. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    I've been running a Specially Defensive Tyranitar to great success.

    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
    Careful nature
    -Stone Edge
    -Crunch
    -Fire Blast
    -Stealth Rock

    Walls a shitload of Pokemon, and makes for a decent lure to Nattorei and Skarmory. It also makes a great counter to rain teams.
  20. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    I don't really like the Brave nature on Mix Tyranitar. It allow lots of things to outspeed you and do some bad things to you, a major one being Burungeru, who can Burn Tar to render him usless basically. The nature choice would basically boil down to Lonely/Naughty, and the choice depending on whether you want Tar to take either special or physical attacks better.
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Think of it this way: all Pokemon manage to get by with their defenses, despite some Pokemon like Espeon and Infernape being physically frail. Tyranitar can still be defensively competent despite a hindering nature, so the 10% drop is not all that bad despite the competitive philosophy. Anybody can disagree with me, but since Berungeru can outspeed Brave Tyranitar and all…

    There's also the fact that Tyranitar has already 65 speed, which is really really really slow. Paralysis support would certainly help so Brave nature is actually viable.
  22. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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