1. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  3. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Unneeded things in pokemon!

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Celever, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Please remember this is orange islands. If something is bad competitively but has a use in-game then don't post it! Thanks.

    Pokemon is a massive game. Lots of variety, lots of structure, but you have to ask yourself whether all of it is necessary.

    Why spend development time making bellossom in gen 2? We already had vileplume, and bellossom isn't better than vileplume in any way.

    We have enough fish pokemon. No more bascullin. Please.

    List of things many people mention in the thread:
    Trading to evolve, especially item trading. (I couldn't agree more with you there. Especially since there is literally no one around where I live willing to trade with me. I WANT THAT KINGDRA!)
  2. ciaranroy

    ciaranroy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    The Finneon line is the most pointless line in Pokemon. They offer absolutely nothing creatively or competitively. As if we needed more bland fish Pokemon.
  3. Dzi

    Dzi

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    48
    I find Mails (Surf Mail, Flame Mail, Shadow Mail etc. etc.) useless in competitive battling aside from the fact that it prevents Trick/Switcheroo to occur.

    Idk maybe other people find use for it.
  4. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,041
    Finneon actually has U-Turn to set it apart
  5. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    IVs. pokemon is all about the bond you share with your pokemon friends, and overcoming obstacles with them. why is it, then, that even if i get a good nature, the ones i completed the game with will be trash or at least inferior to the ones with the almost-impossible-to-get-if-playing-as-intended perfect ivs?
    Karxrida likes this.
  6. TeamEmpoleon

    TeamEmpoleon

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    The spawn rate in Dark Caves
    zubat f0ck off
  7. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,041
    It's not meant for competitive battling, obviously. Not everything in the game is geared towards that. Orange Islands itself is proof. Mail is obviously used to attach to Pokemon you trade with others.

    Because of the whole every Pokemon is unique thing. It makes the game more unpredictable. It also makes it less convenient, but this is not the "what do you find inconvenient" thread.

    It would not be Pokemon without a bat Pokemon every 3 steps in caves, come on. Now you're just complaining about things you don't like.
  8. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    no, it's unnecessary. we already have the nature system and the ev system - in which it's highly unlikely two pokemon will have faced the exact same opponents and will consequently have different evs and thus different stats.
  9. ciaranroy

    ciaranroy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    Trading to evolve. It is used to encourage trading, but what about those who can't trade? They have to make do with a crappy Machoke or Kadabra. Why couldn't they just have a level evolve? It's just pointlessly inconvenient.
  10. TheKAM1993

    TheKAM1993

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    That's why Wi-Fi exists.
  11. ciaranroy

    ciaranroy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    I couldn't trade until Gen V because my Wi-Fi wasn't compatible with whatever the game used. They only started supporting WAP in BW.
  12. Sterero

    Sterero

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    59
    IV and EV represent innate talent and growth respectively.
  13. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    I've always found it irritating to have the item trades. As if regular trading wasn't irritating enough.
    Karxrida likes this.
  14. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Eh, shiruba, I would say that IVs are actually a pretty awesome thing to have. If I would get rid of anything it would be natures.
    Competitively the IVs will just always be maxed, but in-game not one pokemon will be the same as another. If you catch the right swablu (example) he could just sweep anything. He could also end up cripplingly weak for your team. It just makes training pokemon more of an experience, definitely moreso than "swablu. Oh look, 42 HP like everything else. But wait! The nature is good for attacking, that's different..right?).
  15. kaps

    kaps

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    192
    I actually think that IV's, EV's, and natures are all really cool. IV's are a product of the physical ability the pokemon is born with, EV's have to do with training/experience, and natures say a lot about how the pokemon's born personality affects their abilities in battle. I'll admit they don't all make the most sense, but I feel they're still important

    I don't think pokemon needed musicals though. that was a waste of effort in my opinion
    PlatinumWarrior and Missino like this.
  16. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    717
    So... it's fine now?

    Ivs are annoying, not unneeded. They were conscious choices to create a specific feel for the pokemon world. It would be better to preserve what they were shooting for, and have it so that IVs are ignored in pvp battles where they actually matter.

    Here's what's really unneeded: I gave my my sister my white version so she could get into Pokemon. I looked over while she was playing and saw she was "getting a call from mom." There were full faces and backgrounds... what the heck? Who decided they needed to put resources into that? I'd prefer another cute item with a novel function, or a small area to explore... but skype calls to your mom? -_-
  17. Darknesscrusher

    Darknesscrusher

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    The most uesles thing, I think, would be the photo booths in department stores.
  18. Cosmic Fury

    Cosmic Fury

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    Grunts that always get in the way with even more Zubats when you've just beaten 19295647563487 of them in the same cave/well/whatever already, and even more with the 23473 grunts before him.

    C'mon, some variety wouldn't hurt. :(
  19. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Wow, that must have taken some counting! :P

    But yeah, I think that the skype thing was going a little over-board. xD
  20. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    swablu is weak as hell lol. it will not be sweeping much even if it does get good ivs.
    but who cares if, in an unlikely scenario for non-competitive people, two pokes have the exact same nature and have the exact same ivs? it's like having two people with the same trainer name. it happens.

    natures allow for customisation of a poke - unlike ivs, which should almost always be flawless. you honestly can't tell me that an adamant dragonite will have the same strengths as an impish one. that allows for different stat spreads and combinations depending on what you want the poke to do. this is not the same as ivs, which are almost always wanted as perfect - unless it's trick room or protection from foul play and confusion if you have a specially-oriented poke, or hidden power, which could easily just be randomly generated for the poke on receiving.
  21. EsurioXY

    EsurioXY

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    125
    If you don't mind, Shiruba, I'd like to tackle this concept as, unless IVs functionally change in XY we are not going to be able to manipulate them through hacking/RNGing.

    #1) IVs in regular pokemon have the effect of 'individualizing' a poke's potential. This is much like Natures.

    #2) IVs in regular pokemon are inconsequential to battling anywhere but perhaps the BattleFrontiers. Its arguable that even that isn't true as Jumpman trounced the BattleTower in DPP with low quality pokes.

    #3) 'Perfect IVs' and 'Specialized Hidden Powers' are the product of an arms race of 3rd party hacking hardware. Remove an easy way to manipulate IVs and the metagame will inevitably change even in the Competitive Space.

    #4) The concept of 'Perfect IVs' is balanced by the fact that it is nigh impossible to achieve unless through intentional mass breeding. Does the difference between a

    31/31/31/31/31 Jolly Tyranitar
    versus a switched in
    Adamant 31/27/15/28/25 Breloom

    matter? Or is that Tyranitar pretty much doomed?
  22. Hulavuta

    Hulavuta HEAL ME BITCH
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    850
    You take that back. Those were the greatest.
    Karxrida likes this.
  23. Shiruba

    Shiruba

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,932
    #1) but that just means they eternally have their nuts cut off. also, natures can serve a dual purpose of allowing you to choose what your pokemon is going to do. they are actually USEFUL and can change and still be optimal. this is not the same for ivs.

    #2) in-game, yes, but i'm not talking about in-game. you can beat the entire sinnoh e4 with just a starly - i've seen it. i am talking about the competitive standpoint, even just random, friendly matches with friends or random people over wi-fi, and how my pokes are very much inferior to the rng'd/hacked pokes.

    #3) ...huh?
    from what little i can understand of that one, it's not a problem if the metagame changes. it will regardless of whether ivs are removed or not.

    #4) that's an extreme example where there is a massive weakness. here's a better one:

    take two samurott with the exact same natures and movesets, and both were ev trained to be fast physical attackers:

    adamant:
    swords dance/megahorn/waterfall/aqua jet, let's say

    but one has been rng'd and has perfect ivs, whereas the other one, from normal play, has:

    21/14/7/0/17/11

    and both are at full health.

    which will win, assuming the one with the perfect ivs is not just spamming aqua jet or something?
    Karxrida and Lord Ghetsis like this.
  24. NoUserName

    NoUserName

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    Basculin is good ingame in BW because Adaptability, I tried it and it is funny to use it, in competitive I don't know, but it seems better than Pidgeot or Beedrill.
  25. Scorpio

    Scorpio

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    405
    A couple of things for me, actually:

    -Pokemon Musicals and Super Contests. R/S/E Contests were awesome; they had actual strategy, and I played them for ages in R/S/E. Super Contests and Musicals? Never even bothered with them.

    -Gimmicky Pokemon that suck. I mean, if a gimmicky Pokemon has actual battling merit to it, I can accept that (examples being Gen V Ditto, Smeargle, and Zoroark). But if a gimmicky Pokemon sucks, it's useless.

    Ironically, this is one of the few unnecessary things in Pokemon that can be resolved by ADDING stuff.
    Karxrida likes this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)